Drow LA vs duergar LA [Archive] - Wizards Community

Drow LA vs duergar LA [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LittleCarp04
03-23-07, 04:57 PM With the Duergar getting a reduced LA in XPH, would you keep the drow at the same LA? We dont play with them as PCs just as NPCs, but when building in depth NPCs the LA is just as important, so just wondering about your guys opinions.
Zevox
03-23-07, 07:13 PM As a point, Duergar LA is only +1 in the 3.5 MM as well. Its not just the XPH.

And yeah, I think Drow would be fine as LA+1 myself. Their SR and the int/cha boosts are the only really great thing they for that LA. The SLAs are fairly minor, the darkvision hardly warrants an LA boost, and they have light blindness as a drawback.

Zevox
Mad Mage
03-23-07, 11:11 PM As a point, Duergar LA is only +1 in the 3.5 MM as well. Its not just the XPH.

They're also +1 LA in Underdark. ;)
johnkretzer
03-24-07, 02:41 AM With the Duergar getting a reduced LA in XPH, would you keep the drow at the same LA? We dont play with them as PCs just as NPCs, but when building in depth NPCs the LA is just as important, so just wondering about your guys opinions.

I agree that Drow should be a LA+1 if the Duerger are a LA+1,

but you do realize LA only effects PCs right? Cr isn't effected by the LA...meaning a:
Level 3 Drow fighter might be Efective Level of 5 as a PC but is only a CR 4 as a NPC...
Zanan
03-24-07, 07:04 AM Note: The drow's SR validate a +1 alone. Add to this unbalanced bonuses to ability scores (Dex & Con balance one another, but CHA and INT are not balanced), an extra save-bonus (handy for all Will low classes) as well as three free SLA, one of which is actually a druid spell only.
Obviously, if you look at certain other non-/LA'ed creatures, you might ask questions, but in general the drow are fine as they are. One should keep in mind that LA ranges from 0,0 to 0,9 before reaching LA +1 and 1,1 to 1,9 before making the cut for LA +2. Among the genasi some hardly validate a +1, while others surely do. So they could go from say 1,2 to 1,9 yet still lie with in the LA +1 region. If that is the way the Wizards do it. The Whisper Gnomes of Races of Stone are hardly a LA +0 race, more like LA +0,99, but there you go.
runestar
03-24-07, 09:14 AM Drow and duergar's LAs should each be gauged based on their own strengths and weaknesses. Just because the duergar's LA was revised does not mean the drow's LA should be as well, if there is not reason to justify it. It could simply mean that the duergar's LA had previously been inflated unnecessarily.:)
LittleCarp04
03-24-07, 10:25 AM All good points, but as to the comment where we should look at their own strength, the reason is that we are going to be playing an underdark campaign soon, and Duergar and Drow will both be very important, and if they Duergar are only +1 and they have PP (they are psionic in our campaign), they have expansion, and some other nifty things, the drow arent necessarily that much overpowered, which is why in this instance I would compare the two to ensure a fair balance.

Also in my games i make whisper gnomes +1, I guess im just looking for acceptance to make drow +1, what if i drop down their SR a bit? maybe from 11+ to like 8+?
Zanan
03-24-07, 10:46 AM Well, you do find "lesser" version of all these LA races in the back of the Players Guide to Faerūn, of course.
GothicDan
03-24-07, 11:45 AM Just the Drow's unbalanced bonuses (+2 Int, +2 Cha) is worth a +1 to LA in my book. Take out their SR altogether and you might have an LA +1-ish race.
johnkretzer
03-24-07, 12:34 PM I guess my problem is I don't think the duergar are worth only a +1 LA especialy since they get nicer things then the drow.
LittleCarp04
03-24-07, 03:18 PM true, invisibility + enlarge are both very potent abilities, and also throw in the fact that they can take psionic feats makes it all the better.

I think were just gonna make drow +1 especially since its a all underdark campaign, it isnt totally unbalancing since there wont be alot of humans and such running about.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LittleCarp04 03-23-07, 04:57 PM	With the Duergar getting a reduced LA in XPH, would you keep the drow at the same LA? We dont play with them as PCs just as NPCs, but when building in depth NPCs the LA is just as important, so just wondering about your guys opinions.
Zevox 03-23-07, 07:13 PM	As a point, Duergar LA is only +1 in the 3.5 MM as well. Its not just the XPH. And yeah, I think Drow would be fine as LA+1 myself. Their SR and the int/cha boosts are the only really great thing they for that LA. The SLAs are fairly minor, the darkvision hardly warrants an LA boost, and they have light blindness as a drawback. Zevox
Mad Mage 03-23-07, 11:11 PM	As a point, Duergar LA is only +1 in the 3.5 MM as well. Its not just the XPH. They're also +1 LA in Underdark. ;)
johnkretzer 03-24-07, 02:41 AM	With the Duergar getting a reduced LA in XPH, would you keep the drow at the same LA? We dont play with them as PCs just as NPCs, but when building in depth NPCs the LA is just as important, so just wondering about your guys opinions. I agree that Drow should be a LA+1 if the Duerger are a LA+1, but you do realize LA only effects PCs right? Cr isn't effected by the LA...meaning a: Level 3 Drow fighter might be Efective Level of 5 as a PC but is only a CR 4 as a NPC...
Zanan 03-24-07, 07:04 AM	Note: The drow's SR validate a +1 alone. Add to this unbalanced bonuses to ability scores (Dex & Con balance one another, but CHA and INT are not balanced), an extra save-bonus (handy for all Will low classes) as well as three free SLA, one of which is actually a druid spell only. Obviously, if you look at certain other non-/LA'ed creatures, you might ask questions, but in general the drow are fine as they are. One should keep in mind that LA ranges from 0,0 to 0,9 before reaching LA +1 and 1,1 to 1,9 before making the cut for LA +2. Among the genasi some hardly validate a +1, while others surely do. So they could go from say 1,2 to 1,9 yet still lie with in the LA +1 region. If that is the way the Wizards do it. The Whisper Gnomes of Races of Stone are hardly a LA +0 race, more like LA +0,99, but there you go.
runestar 03-24-07, 09:14 AM	Drow and duergar's LAs should each be gauged based on their own strengths and weaknesses. Just because the duergar's LA was revised does not mean the drow's LA should be as well, if there is not reason to justify it. It could simply mean that the duergar's LA had previously been inflated unnecessarily.:)
LittleCarp04 03-24-07, 10:25 AM	All good points, but as to the comment where we should look at their own strength, the reason is that we are going to be playing an underdark campaign soon, and Duergar and Drow will both be very important, and if they Duergar are only +1 and they have PP (they are psionic in our campaign), they have expansion, and some other nifty things, the drow arent necessarily that much overpowered, which is why in this instance I would compare the two to ensure a fair balance. Also in my games i make whisper gnomes +1, I guess im just looking for acceptance to make drow +1, what if i drop down their SR a bit? maybe from 11+ to like 8+?
Zanan 03-24-07, 10:46 AM	Well, you do find "lesser" version of all these LA races in the back of the Players Guide to Faerūn, of course.
GothicDan 03-24-07, 11:45 AM	Just the Drow's unbalanced bonuses (+2 Int, +2 Cha) is worth a +1 to LA in my book. Take out their SR altogether and you might have an LA +1-ish race.
johnkretzer 03-24-07, 12:34 PM	I guess my problem is I don't think the duergar are worth only a +1 LA especialy since they get nicer things then the drow.
LittleCarp04 03-24-07, 03:18 PM	true, invisibility + enlarge are both very potent abilities, and also throw in the fact that they can take psionic feats makes it all the better. I think were just gonna make drow +1 especially since its a all underdark campaign, it isnt totally unbalancing since there wont be alot of humans and such running about.