druid of helm [Archive] - Wizards Community

druid of helm [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
natzero
07-10-07, 11:07 AM Alright guys my group and i have recently started a campaign that began (on faerun timeline) 3 days before the time of troubles begins. My character is a 7th level LN druid of helm, and i have some research on helm to gain any role playing advice for playing as a follower of such a deity. If any one has any advice on playing a druid of a lawful god plz post im looking forward to anything.

for giggles heres the groups build (and plz dont ask me why i tried to talk group into staying simple):

me 7th level human LN druid
3rd fighter / 2nd lvl bard ogre (ecl +2) CG i believe
3rd pixie (ecl 4) sorc CG
3rd fight / 4th Fire Gensai Cleric LN
7th Human Beguiler N i think
and last but not least (*sigh*)
3rd monk/ 2nd barb / 2nd drunken master Human CN (i think these are right might be 2/3)
but ya his char is kindve a dick. but powerful as hell
ok i submit for criticism: have fun ;p
ill check when i get back from work
Faraer
07-10-07, 01:52 PM The main source on the Faerūnian pantheon is still Faiths & Avatars (http://paizo.com/store/brand/forgottenRealms/roleplayingGames/2ndEdition/v5748btpy7mkq). Druids of Helm don't feature in Realmslore.
customdrapery
07-10-07, 01:59 PM I'm all for the nature deity list being open-ended, but how do you justify Helm being a nature deity?

Maybe he is the protector of trees or a specific wilderness area.
Lord Karsus
07-10-07, 03:07 PM -You should really do research on your patron before choosing them...
Drew1369r
07-10-07, 03:10 PM Ok lets quit beating him on the God choice and just freaking help him out... Lets assume its a house rule from now on when someone comes to the site with unorthodox ideas.

With your choice, what you might want to play in is having a specific charge of land that YOU protect. Say a patch of forest that elves havn't inhabited. So with Helm being your patron you would protect that with your life... no choping or nothing, even being LN you would kill loggers after you warned them away.

Thats all I pretty much know about Helm and how to apply it to a Druid.
Drew1369r
07-10-07, 03:11 PM The main source on the Faerūnian pantheon is still Faiths & Avatars (http://paizo.com/store/brand/forgottenRealms/roleplayingGames/2ndEdition/v5748btpy7mkq). Druids of Helm don't feature in Realmslore.

I would say Faiths and Pantheons is the main source for Gods lore as it is more current with the present edition of books... not 2nd Ed especially with the book out of print and unavailable as a free download.
Lord Karsus
07-10-07, 03:20 PM I would say Faiths and Pantheons is the main source for Gods lore as it is more current with the present edition of books... not 2nd Ed especially with the book out of print and unavailable as a free download.

-No, Faiths and Avatars, Powers and Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities are the main sources for information concerning Faerūn's deities. Faiths and Avatars contains 1/10 of the amount of information that the previous three contain, and asides for the nice artwork, isn't really that great of a book.

-Information that has not been carried over to 3e still applies, as long as it is not overruled by newer information.
MarkusTay63
07-10-07, 03:40 PM It had nice artwork? :thinks:

Oh yeah! I remember that picture now... :smirk:

With your choice, what you might want to play in is having a specific charge of land that YOU protect. Say a patch of forest that elves havn't inhabited. So with Helm being your patron you would protect that with your life... no choping or nothing, even being LN you would kill loggers after you warned them away.And remember to tell your friends that you CAN'T go adventuring with them, because you have to stay home and protect some dirt... ;)

Forget the Druid of Helm, the Monk/Barb combo breaks every alignment rule in core!!! :eek:

Has anyone read any of the rulebooks... at ALL?
Lord Karsus
07-10-07, 05:32 PM It had nice artwork? :thinks:

Oh yeah! I remember that picture now... :smirk:

-You remember the picture of Mystra, don't you? Or, was that KtM? Ah, you liked the picture of Lolth, right? ;)

Has anyone read any of the rulebooks... at ALL?

-I've read 'em in bits and pieces, but never from cover to cover. I began playing D&D as a player, and then eventually became a DM through necessity, so I already had like 65% of the necessary rules and whatnot memorized by that point.
Walls
07-10-07, 06:35 PM It's totally off topic, but this thread encapsulates my problem with today's gaming and the FR world as a whole. EVERYTHING is canon. EVERYTHING is by the book. EVERYTHING has a rule.

This is why, despite the game rules, 2ed remains my favorite playing time. Every little bit of the world wasn't stratted out in full.

Now... back to topic.

Yeah, I don't get the druid of helm thing either but I always consider druid to clerics akin to sorcerers to wizards. Ya know?
Lord Karsus
07-10-07, 06:47 PM It's totally off topic, but this thread encapsulates my problem with today's gaming and the FR world as a whole. EVERYTHING is canon. EVERYTHING is by the book. EVERYTHING has a rule.

-What's the problem? Without rules, everything would be a chaotic nightmare.

-And, not everything is canon. Neverwinter Nights, for example, is not canon.
Drew1369r
07-10-07, 06:51 PM -No, Faiths and Avatars, Powers and Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities are the main sources for information concerning Faerūn's deities. Faiths and Avatars contains 1/10 of the amount of information that the previous three contain, and asides for the nice artwork, isn't really that great of a book.

-Information that has not been carried over to 3e still applies, as long as it is not overruled by newer information.

And again I reiterate that those of us that has no access to these fabled and mysterious 2ed books that are not free for download on wizards site can only go by what we have.
Boda
07-10-07, 06:53 PM If the druid is a sort of priest...why not?There are rangers of mystra, so why not druids of helm?
Lord Karsus
07-10-07, 07:10 PM And again I reiterate that those of us that has no access to these fabled and mysterious 2ed books that are not free for download on wizards site can only go by what we have.

-That's fine, and you need to go by what you have, but that doesn't change the fact that Faiths and Avatars, Powers and Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities are the main sources for information concerning Faerūn's deities.
natzero
07-10-07, 08:38 PM well my idea was as follows, i was an orphan bla bla bla

after mother died i was raised by a priest of helm so i grew up as LN

all this happened in the moonsea and one night while praying was told by helm to watch for followers of bane. this was a pledge to guard the lands from the members of bane's church so i decided to (and remember my character always loved animals and nature *:)* ) seek out elves. After proving to elves he was worthy of druidic life they trained him and he has watched over the moonsea's forests striking out at bane's followers.

this is only a few years before the time of troubles aswell so banes church was coming back in force.
as far as i know i didnt stretch too many rules or ideas and i think its possible that such a class could follow a strict and written set of rules. If helm had the nature thing going for him he would be the perfect druid deity.

really to sum it up im a druid for helm not a helm worshipper because im a druid.
MerrikCale
07-10-07, 09:07 PM really to sum it up im a druid for helm not a helm worshipper because im a druid.

huh?
Aegis_Chiron
07-11-07, 02:53 AM -No, Faiths and Avatars, Powers and Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities are the main sources for information concerning Faerūn's deities. Faiths and Avatars contains 1/10 of the amount of information that the previous three contain, and asides for the nice artwork, isn't really that great of a book.

For all that I respect LK, I think I have to note that this is the first mistake I've seen from him, apart from the whole Karsus' Avatar taking-over-mystra's-portfolio-fall-of-netheril-thing.

really to sum it up im a druid for helm not a helm worshipper because im a druid.

You do realize that druids gain their abilities and spells by WORSHIPPING their respective deities, right?Without that worship and divine gifts, you're just a woodsman.
customdrapery
07-11-07, 03:19 PM I'm hoping that was a typo and that LK really meant to say "Faiths and Pantheons contains 1/10 of the amount of information..." but that's just my guess.

And I do have to agree, when you want information on the Realms deities, the quick place is F&P and it has some new info, but for the real meat, you have to look at the 2ed material, Faiths and Avatars, Powers and Pantheons, and Demi-human Deities. F&P regurgitates slimmed down versions of what appears in those three books.

I kind of like the druidic defender of the woodland concept. I would choose Silvanus over Helm for that role though, or even a particularly conservative Chauntean, but if the DM allows it, shrug.
Lord Karsus
07-11-07, 06:42 PM huh?

-I think he might be agnostic...

I'm hoping that was a typo and that LK really meant to say "Faiths and Pantheons contains 1/10 of the amount of information..." but that's just my guess.

-Oh yeah...Whoops. :blush:
natzero
07-11-07, 07:38 PM yes i am aware a druid receives his spells from his patron deity, however as far as i know there is no rule specifying which specific deities are aloud to hand out spells to druids.

helm is to civilization what a druid is to a natural setting, it doesnt seem to me that a druid couldnt respect him greatly for doing so.

a druid and priest of helm would share many beliefs in common, and would work together well as long as each is given the space so required.

i imagine a chaotic good diety would disagree with one of her paladins more often then helm would have issues with a druid.
Faraer
07-11-07, 07:45 PM . . . however as far as i know there is no rule specifying which specific deities are aloud to hand out spells to druids.Screw the rules. Druids don't serve Helm in the Realms. If you and your DM on the other hand can make sense of that, go for it.
captaincarot
07-15-07, 04:12 AM however as far as i know there is no rule specifying which specific deities are aloud to hand out spells to druids.

you mean other than the rule which says druids MUST worship a nature deity and here is a full list of nature deities, which helm isn't on. you kight like to read those few lines in faiths and pantheons.

but the rule books are only there as a guideline. afterall a druid is a priest of nature so why would they bother worshiping a nature deity rather than a deity that has nothing to do with nature at all.

there are some things that are central to the tennets of the game and always have been, druids worship nature deities is one of these.

or do we start having druids of bane and cyric next.
Fabius Maximus
07-15-07, 09:32 AM Why not making him a druid of Silvanus (protector of nature) and Helm? People in the Realms often worship more than one god. In this case, the character would get his spells from Silvanus, but would pay respect to Helm, too.

Nothing wrong with that.
captaincarot
07-15-07, 09:58 AM Why not making him a druid of Silvanus (protector of nature) andHelm? People in the Realms often worship more than one god. In this case, the character would get his spells from Silvanus, but would pay respect to Helm, too.

Nothing wrong with that.

no there aint it's quite anice tie in that is.
mcJoker
07-15-07, 04:51 PM Why not making him a druid of Silvanus (protector of nature) and Helm? People in the Realms often worship more than one god. In this case, the character would get his spells from Silvanus, but would pay respect to Helm, too.

Nothing wrong with that.

It's not really that they worship more than one god as much as it is paying lip-service to the appropriate god at the appropriate time.

True, devout worship, as expected from clerics and druids, does not really tolerate worshipping another god off to the side. Remember...it is the amount, faith and power of the worshippers that also strengthen or weaken a deity. Lip-service would be tolerated towards allied deities, which would sort of eliminate the above combination.

Helm is the stalwart, unwavering defender...ever vigilant and willing to sacrifice himself for Faerūn as a whole. The only deity that really understands him would be Torm.

Silvanus, though he can be harsh if the situation warrants it, is more obeservant of the overall cycle of life and balance. He expects his followers to hold their distance and take a look at the overall situation, not the 'popular idea of what is best'.

As a druid, the worshipping would be solely towards Silvanus...at best I could see lip-service to Helm when requesting aid in one's vigilance to guard or protect something. After all, Helm has nothing to do with nature and the elements of nature, but the vigilance of the eternal guardian.
Fabius Maximus
07-15-07, 06:22 PM I don't think it's mere lip-service. Lip-Service indicates that one does not believe in the relevant god, or - in the case of the Realms - does not trust the god to hear or even help him.
Lip-service is just show for other people, to prevent social exclusion.

A druid of Silvanus (or Mielikki, if that fits better) could very well be a priest of his 'main' god, but honouring Helm in his incarnation as eternal guardian, bidding him to lend him strength in fulfilling his duties.

There even is a rather prominent example for this: There is a dwarven paladin of Helm and Gorm Gulthyn in Champions of Valor. He serves Helm in protecting the Holy Realm, but is devoted to Gorm.
Faraer
07-15-07, 06:32 PM See Ed Greenwood's post here (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8518&whichpage=44) on how priests (and druids are priests) worship. Lip service is another matter -- as Fabius says, unfelt mouthings out of social obligation.
Cryto
07-16-07, 04:20 AM There is list of deities who accept druids. It is i think in Faiths and Pantheons.
As far as i know helm does not support druids (metal armor :P).

While we are on this subject I would like to ask others if they know why Lolth doesn't allow druids and she still likes vermin or so...Maybe blighters?
Faraer
07-16-07, 03:54 PM It's not a question of Lolth not allowing druids, as if there were druids who want to serve her but she says no. They just aren't part of drow culture in general or her religion in particular.

Most druids in the Realms are N and serve Silvanus, Eldath or Chauntea, whatever wacky variants the rules permit.
MerrikCale
07-17-07, 11:25 PM There is list of deities who accept druids. It is i think in Faiths and Pantheons.

that list purposefully states it is not complete, hence the debate. Although there is no way the designers contemplated Helm as a druidic deity. The open-endedness is meant for DMs to perhaps allow more "close call" deities such as Selune or the Elemental Gods
Alac Luin
07-18-07, 02:46 PM <snip> the Monk/Barb combo breaks every alignment rule in core!!! :eek:

Actually, it is possible, with a good story.
A monk does not loose monk abilities by changing alignment.
If the character starts as a monk, and has a reason to change alignment, it can be a nice powerful combo.
Personally, I'd try to take 4 levels monk for ki strike, as you will never get to take another level monk.
I'm not really a CharOp person so this my not be the best advise.
mcJoker
07-19-07, 02:51 AM I don't think it's mere lip-service. Lip-Service indicates that one does not believe in the relevant god, or - in the case of the Realms - does not trust the god to hear or even help him.
Lip-service is just show for other people, to prevent social exclusion.

A druid of Silvanus (or Mielikki, if that fits better) could very well be a priest of his 'main' god, but honouring Helm in his incarnation as eternal guardian, bidding him to lend him strength in fulfilling his duties.

There even is a rather prominent example for this: There is a dwarven paladin of Helm and Gorm Gulthyn in Champions of Valor. He serves Helm in protecting the Holy Realm, but is devoted to Gorm.

I stand corrected on the lip-service comment...as it was not quite what I had meant (I was actually thinking more along the lines of what was said by Ed in regards to the situational honouring of a deity...this is also mentioned in a few books). Poor choice of words, sorry...goes to show that I shouldn't answer topics when tired. :embarrass So to rephrase it properly:

The druid would not be a druid of Silvanus and Helm, but a follower of Silvanus who honours the dedication of Helm in regards to vigilance and guardianship. The druid's primary focus...and source of his divine power would be Silvanus in this case (or similar, nature/elemental deity), as Helm does not offer the druidic spells.

Still, one should keep in mind the dogmas and what they represent...so anything that the druid does in Helm's name should not be counterproductive to Silvanus' (or above mentioned deity's) dogma, but support it.

The other option I would see for your character as you've described his history would be a cleric of Helm, who has taken an oath to be a guardian for nature...therefore allied to the druids, but not a druid (as such would also not know druidic and other such skills specifically meant for that class).

Druids in general would require strong faith in a nature's deity for a person to be allowed into their world. Anyone else is at best an accepted ally and friend.

Hope that made more sense than my last post in this thread. :embarrass :rolleyes:
natzero
07-19-07, 10:28 AM heh i really did not expect such a multitude of personalities and posts.

its great to hear from such a large and apparently diverse group, and yes the fact that the books are guidelines has made this particular conversation eye opening.

as for the reasons my character is not a cleric
1: we had one already (heh bad one but was a factor)
2: my original char was to be a rogue/fighter
3: in the bio i tried to make the case that my character was always tide to nature in a reverent way.
4: after his parents died, my char (jak) was brought up by a cleric of helm
5: jak lived in the moonsea near zhentil keep where much of Bane's exploits were taking place.
6: "helm realized my char was not quite as interested in being a formal priest (and didnt have favored soul stuff with me) so
"allowed him to be a guardian of the moonsea"
7: campaign takes place right at the start of the time of troubles, we have not gotten far enough into it to even have heard of mystras death
8: so pretty much jak was an undercover agent of helm in a place where none of bane's agents could imagine helm would station spies

in a nutshell i know im stretching soem rules but as logn as dm is cool its fine right ;p

lemme know if you think the defense's case hold water

also is it possible that out of mutual hatred of bane helm could have gone into league with lets say any nature diety to help me root out any issues with bane?
for example granting me spells, therefore i would be getting my spells from a nature deity
food for thought, have at it all
BrennonGoldeye
07-19-07, 11:07 AM Hmm. Well... Let's say there was a village of folk who just happen to respect the "laws" of nature and understand the interactions of civilization and wild and how they must balance to keep the chaos of conflict between species and space from overwhelming them both. He is the God of Guardians. Perhaps, especially with His church's past problems with nature-loving civilizations, he has decided to expand his Guardianship. Guarding the land that feeds your folk isn't that big of a stretch. I don't think Chauntea would mind much. I would like to add that I think mcJoker's take is very well thought out and follows the jist of FR. Just my :twocents:
wizardude9
07-23-07, 07:20 PM i thought that druids had 2 have nature deities,i didn't know helm was a nature deity.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
natzero 07-10-07, 11:07 AM	Alright guys my group and i have recently started a campaign that began (on faerun timeline) 3 days before the time of troubles begins. My character is a 7th level LN druid of helm, and i have some research on helm to gain any role playing advice for playing as a follower of such a deity. If any one has any advice on playing a druid of a lawful god plz post im looking forward to anything. for giggles heres the groups build (and plz dont ask me why i tried to talk group into staying simple): me 7th level human LN druid 3rd fighter / 2nd lvl bard ogre (ecl +2) CG i believe 3rd pixie (ecl 4) sorc CG 3rd fight / 4th Fire Gensai Cleric LN 7th Human Beguiler N i think and last but not least (sigh) 3rd monk/ 2nd barb / 2nd drunken master Human CN (i think these are right might be 2/3) but ya his char is kindve a dick. but powerful as hell ok i submit for criticism: have fun ;p ill check when i get back from work
Faraer 07-10-07, 01:52 PM	The main source on the Faerūnian pantheon is still Faiths & Avatars (http://paizo.com/store/brand/forgottenRealms/roleplayingGames/2ndEdition/v5748btpy7mkq). Druids of Helm don't feature in Realmslore.
customdrapery 07-10-07, 01:59 PM	I'm all for the nature deity list being open-ended, but how do you justify Helm being a nature deity? Maybe he is the protector of trees or a specific wilderness area.
Lord Karsus 07-10-07, 03:07 PM	-You should really do research on your patron before choosing them...
Drew1369r 07-10-07, 03:10 PM	Ok lets quit beating him on the God choice and just freaking help him out... Lets assume its a house rule from now on when someone comes to the site with unorthodox ideas. With your choice, what you might want to play in is having a specific charge of land that YOU protect. Say a patch of forest that elves havn't inhabited. So with Helm being your patron you would protect that with your life... no choping or nothing, even being LN you would kill loggers after you warned them away. Thats all I pretty much know about Helm and how to apply it to a Druid.
Drew1369r 07-10-07, 03:11 PM	The main source on the Faerūnian pantheon is still Faiths & Avatars (http://paizo.com/store/brand/forgottenRealms/roleplayingGames/2ndEdition/v5748btpy7mkq). Druids of Helm don't feature in Realmslore. I would say Faiths and Pantheons is the main source for Gods lore as it is more current with the present edition of books... not 2nd Ed especially with the book out of print and unavailable as a free download.
Lord Karsus 07-10-07, 03:20 PM	I would say Faiths and Pantheons is the main source for Gods lore as it is more current with the present edition of books... not 2nd Ed especially with the book out of print and unavailable as a free download. -No, Faiths and Avatars, Powers and Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities are the main sources for information concerning Faerūn's deities. Faiths and Avatars contains 1/10 of the amount of information that the previous three contain, and asides for the nice artwork, isn't really that great of a book. -Information that has not been carried over to 3e still applies, as long as it is not overruled by newer information.
MarkusTay63 07-10-07, 03:40 PM	It had nice artwork? :thinks: Oh yeah! I remember that picture now... :smirk: With your choice, what you might want to play in is having a specific charge of land that YOU protect. Say a patch of forest that elves havn't inhabited. So with Helm being your patron you would protect that with your life... no choping or nothing, even being LN you would kill loggers after you warned them away.And remember to tell your friends that you CAN'T go adventuring with them, because you have to stay home and protect some dirt... ;) Forget the Druid of Helm, the Monk/Barb combo breaks every alignment rule in core!!! :eek: Has anyone read any of the rulebooks... at ALL?
Lord Karsus 07-10-07, 05:32 PM	It had nice artwork? :thinks: Oh yeah! I remember that picture now... :smirk: -You remember the picture of Mystra, don't you? Or, was that KtM? Ah, you liked the picture of Lolth, right? ;) Has anyone read any of the rulebooks... at ALL? -I've read 'em in bits and pieces, but never from cover to cover. I began playing D&D as a player, and then eventually became a DM through necessity, so I already had like 65% of the necessary rules and whatnot memorized by that point.
Walls 07-10-07, 06:35 PM	It's totally off topic, but this thread encapsulates my problem with today's gaming and the FR world as a whole. EVERYTHING is canon. EVERYTHING is by the book. EVERYTHING has a rule. This is why, despite the game rules, 2ed remains my favorite playing time. Every little bit of the world wasn't stratted out in full. Now... back to topic. Yeah, I don't get the druid of helm thing either but I always consider druid to clerics akin to sorcerers to wizards. Ya know?
Lord Karsus 07-10-07, 06:47 PM	It's totally off topic, but this thread encapsulates my problem with today's gaming and the FR world as a whole. EVERYTHING is canon. EVERYTHING is by the book. EVERYTHING has a rule. -What's the problem? Without rules, everything would be a chaotic nightmare. -And, not everything is canon. Neverwinter Nights, for example, is not canon.
Drew1369r 07-10-07, 06:51 PM	-No, Faiths and Avatars, Powers and Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities are the main sources for information concerning Faerūn's deities. Faiths and Avatars contains 1/10 of the amount of information that the previous three contain, and asides for the nice artwork, isn't really that great of a book. -Information that has not been carried over to 3e still applies, as long as it is not overruled by newer information. And again I reiterate that those of us that has no access to these fabled and mysterious 2ed books that are not free for download on wizards site can only go by what we have.
Boda 07-10-07, 06:53 PM	If the druid is a sort of priest...why not?There are rangers of mystra, so why not druids of helm?
Lord Karsus 07-10-07, 07:10 PM	And again I reiterate that those of us that has no access to these fabled and mysterious 2ed books that are not free for download on wizards site can only go by what we have. -That's fine, and you need to go by what you have, but that doesn't change the fact that Faiths and Avatars, Powers and Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities are the main sources for information concerning Faerūn's deities.
natzero 07-10-07, 08:38 PM	well my idea was as follows, i was an orphan bla bla bla after mother died i was raised by a priest of helm so i grew up as LN all this happened in the moonsea and one night while praying was told by helm to watch for followers of bane. this was a pledge to guard the lands from the members of bane's church so i decided to (and remember my character always loved animals and nature :) ) seek out elves. After proving to elves he was worthy of druidic life they trained him and he has watched over the moonsea's forests striking out at bane's followers. this is only a few years before the time of troubles aswell so banes church was coming back in force. as far as i know i didnt stretch too many rules or ideas and i think its possible that such a class could follow a strict and written set of rules. If helm had the nature thing going for him he would be the perfect druid deity. really to sum it up im a druid for helm not a helm worshipper because im a druid.
MerrikCale 07-10-07, 09:07 PM	really to sum it up im a druid for helm not a helm worshipper because im a druid. huh?
Aegis_Chiron 07-11-07, 02:53 AM	-No, Faiths and Avatars, Powers and Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities are the main sources for information concerning Faerūn's deities. Faiths and Avatars contains 1/10 of the amount of information that the previous three contain, and asides for the nice artwork, isn't really that great of a book. For all that I respect LK, I think I have to note that this is the first mistake I've seen from him, apart from the whole Karsus' Avatar taking-over-mystra's-portfolio-fall-of-netheril-thing. really to sum it up im a druid for helm not a helm worshipper because im a druid. You do realize that druids gain their abilities and spells by WORSHIPPING their respective deities, right?Without that worship and divine gifts, you're just a woodsman.
customdrapery 07-11-07, 03:19 PM	I'm hoping that was a typo and that LK really meant to say "Faiths and Pantheons contains 1/10 of the amount of information..." but that's just my guess. And I do have to agree, when you want information on the Realms deities, the quick place is F&P and it has some new info, but for the real meat, you have to look at the 2ed material, Faiths and Avatars, Powers and Pantheons, and Demi-human Deities. F&P regurgitates slimmed down versions of what appears in those three books. I kind of like the druidic defender of the woodland concept. I would choose Silvanus over Helm for that role though, or even a particularly conservative Chauntean, but if the DM allows it, shrug.
Lord Karsus 07-11-07, 06:42 PM	huh? -I think he might be agnostic... I'm hoping that was a typo and that LK really meant to say "Faiths and Pantheons contains 1/10 of the amount of information..." but that's just my guess. -Oh yeah...Whoops. :blush:
natzero 07-11-07, 07:38 PM	yes i am aware a druid receives his spells from his patron deity, however as far as i know there is no rule specifying which specific deities are aloud to hand out spells to druids. helm is to civilization what a druid is to a natural setting, it doesnt seem to me that a druid couldnt respect him greatly for doing so. a druid and priest of helm would share many beliefs in common, and would work together well as long as each is given the space so required. i imagine a chaotic good diety would disagree with one of her paladins more often then helm would have issues with a druid.
Faraer 07-11-07, 07:45 PM	. . . however as far as i know there is no rule specifying which specific deities are aloud to hand out spells to druids.Screw the rules. Druids don't serve Helm in the Realms. If you and your DM on the other hand can make sense of that, go for it.
captaincarot 07-15-07, 04:12 AM	however as far as i know there is no rule specifying which specific deities are aloud to hand out spells to druids. you mean other than the rule which says druids MUST worship a nature deity and here is a full list of nature deities, which helm isn't on. you kight like to read those few lines in faiths and pantheons. but the rule books are only there as a guideline. afterall a druid is a priest of nature so why would they bother worshiping a nature deity rather than a deity that has nothing to do with nature at all. there are some things that are central to the tennets of the game and always have been, druids worship nature deities is one of these. or do we start having druids of bane and cyric next.
Fabius Maximus 07-15-07, 09:32 AM	Why not making him a druid of Silvanus (protector of nature) and Helm? People in the Realms often worship more than one god. In this case, the character would get his spells from Silvanus, but would pay respect to Helm, too. Nothing wrong with that.
captaincarot 07-15-07, 09:58 AM	Why not making him a druid of Silvanus (protector of nature) andHelm? People in the Realms often worship more than one god. In this case, the character would get his spells from Silvanus, but would pay respect to Helm, too. Nothing wrong with that. no there aint it's quite anice tie in that is.
mcJoker 07-15-07, 04:51 PM	Why not making him a druid of Silvanus (protector of nature) and Helm? People in the Realms often worship more than one god. In this case, the character would get his spells from Silvanus, but would pay respect to Helm, too. Nothing wrong with that. It's not really that they worship more than one god as much as it is paying lip-service to the appropriate god at the appropriate time. True, devout worship, as expected from clerics and druids, does not really tolerate worshipping another god off to the side. Remember...it is the amount, faith and power of the worshippers that also strengthen or weaken a deity. Lip-service would be tolerated towards allied deities, which would sort of eliminate the above combination. Helm is the stalwart, unwavering defender...ever vigilant and willing to sacrifice himself for Faerūn as a whole. The only deity that really understands him would be Torm. Silvanus, though he can be harsh if the situation warrants it, is more obeservant of the overall cycle of life and balance. He expects his followers to hold their distance and take a look at the overall situation, not the 'popular idea of what is best'. As a druid, the worshipping would be solely towards Silvanus...at best I could see lip-service to Helm when requesting aid in one's vigilance to guard or protect something. After all, Helm has nothing to do with nature and the elements of nature, but the vigilance of the eternal guardian.
Fabius Maximus 07-15-07, 06:22 PM	I don't think it's mere lip-service. Lip-Service indicates that one does not believe in the relevant god, or - in the case of the Realms - does not trust the god to hear or even help him. Lip-service is just show for other people, to prevent social exclusion. A druid of Silvanus (or Mielikki, if that fits better) could very well be a priest of his 'main' god, but honouring Helm in his incarnation as eternal guardian, bidding him to lend him strength in fulfilling his duties. There even is a rather prominent example for this: There is a dwarven paladin of Helm and Gorm Gulthyn in Champions of Valor. He serves Helm in protecting the Holy Realm, but is devoted to Gorm.
Faraer 07-15-07, 06:32 PM	See Ed Greenwood's post here (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8518&whichpage=44) on how priests (and druids are priests) worship. Lip service is another matter -- as Fabius says, unfelt mouthings out of social obligation.
Cryto 07-16-07, 04:20 AM	There is list of deities who accept druids. It is i think in Faiths and Pantheons. As far as i know helm does not support druids (metal armor :P). While we are on this subject I would like to ask others if they know why Lolth doesn't allow druids and she still likes vermin or so...Maybe blighters?
Faraer 07-16-07, 03:54 PM	It's not a question of Lolth not allowing druids, as if there were druids who want to serve her but she says no. They just aren't part of drow culture in general or her religion in particular. Most druids in the Realms are N and serve Silvanus, Eldath or Chauntea, whatever wacky variants the rules permit.
MerrikCale 07-17-07, 11:25 PM	There is list of deities who accept druids. It is i think in Faiths and Pantheons. that list purposefully states it is not complete, hence the debate. Although there is no way the designers contemplated Helm as a druidic deity. The open-endedness is meant for DMs to perhaps allow more "close call" deities such as Selune or the Elemental Gods
Alac Luin 07-18-07, 02:46 PM	<snip> the Monk/Barb combo breaks every alignment rule in core!!! :eek: Actually, it is possible, with a good story. A monk does not loose monk abilities by changing alignment. If the character starts as a monk, and has a reason to change alignment, it can be a nice powerful combo. Personally, I'd try to take 4 levels monk for ki strike, as you will never get to take another level monk. I'm not really a CharOp person so this my not be the best advise.
mcJoker 07-19-07, 02:51 AM	I don't think it's mere lip-service. Lip-Service indicates that one does not believe in the relevant god, or - in the case of the Realms - does not trust the god to hear or even help him. Lip-service is just show for other people, to prevent social exclusion. A druid of Silvanus (or Mielikki, if that fits better) could very well be a priest of his 'main' god, but honouring Helm in his incarnation as eternal guardian, bidding him to lend him strength in fulfilling his duties. There even is a rather prominent example for this: There is a dwarven paladin of Helm and Gorm Gulthyn in Champions of Valor. He serves Helm in protecting the Holy Realm, but is devoted to Gorm. I stand corrected on the lip-service comment...as it was not quite what I had meant (I was actually thinking more along the lines of what was said by Ed in regards to the situational honouring of a deity...this is also mentioned in a few books). Poor choice of words, sorry...goes to show that I shouldn't answer topics when tired. :embarrass So to rephrase it properly: The druid would not be a druid of Silvanus and Helm, but a follower of Silvanus who honours the dedication of Helm in regards to vigilance and guardianship. The druid's primary focus...and source of his divine power would be Silvanus in this case (or similar, nature/elemental deity), as Helm does not offer the druidic spells. Still, one should keep in mind the dogmas and what they represent...so anything that the druid does in Helm's name should not be counterproductive to Silvanus' (or above mentioned deity's) dogma, but support it. The other option I would see for your character as you've described his history would be a cleric of Helm, who has taken an oath to be a guardian for nature...therefore allied to the druids, but not a druid (as such would also not know druidic and other such skills specifically meant for that class). Druids in general would require strong faith in a nature's deity for a person to be allowed into their world. Anyone else is at best an accepted ally and friend. Hope that made more sense than my last post in this thread. :embarrass :rolleyes:
natzero 07-19-07, 10:28 AM	heh i really did not expect such a multitude of personalities and posts. its great to hear from such a large and apparently diverse group, and yes the fact that the books are guidelines has made this particular conversation eye opening. as for the reasons my character is not a cleric 1: we had one already (heh bad one but was a factor) 2: my original char was to be a rogue/fighter 3: in the bio i tried to make the case that my character was always tide to nature in a reverent way. 4: after his parents died, my char (jak) was brought up by a cleric of helm 5: jak lived in the moonsea near zhentil keep where much of Bane's exploits were taking place. 6: "helm realized my char was not quite as interested in being a formal priest (and didnt have favored soul stuff with me) so "allowed him to be a guardian of the moonsea" 7: campaign takes place right at the start of the time of troubles, we have not gotten far enough into it to even have heard of mystras death 8: so pretty much jak was an undercover agent of helm in a place where none of bane's agents could imagine helm would station spies in a nutshell i know im stretching soem rules but as logn as dm is cool its fine right ;p lemme know if you think the defense's case hold water also is it possible that out of mutual hatred of bane helm could have gone into league with lets say any nature diety to help me root out any issues with bane? for example granting me spells, therefore i would be getting my spells from a nature deity food for thought, have at it all
BrennonGoldeye 07-19-07, 11:07 AM	Hmm. Well... Let's say there was a village of folk who just happen to respect the "laws" of nature and understand the interactions of civilization and wild and how they must balance to keep the chaos of conflict between species and space from overwhelming them both. He is the God of Guardians. Perhaps, especially with His church's past problems with nature-loving civilizations, he has decided to expand his Guardianship. Guarding the land that feeds your folk isn't that big of a stretch. I don't think Chauntea would mind much. I would like to add that I think mcJoker's take is very well thought out and follows the jist of FR. Just my :twocents:
wizardude9 07-23-07, 07:20 PM	i thought that druids had 2 have nature deities,i didn't know helm was a nature deity.