Duskblades [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Duskblades [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BelainDefenderofJerusalem
04-28-07, 10:19 AM if duskblades are supposed to be almost a parallel to the bladesinger why is it a core class? in my campaign i really dont like the duskblade as core so my proposition is to make it a PrC. my only problem is How?
Burningspear
04-28-07, 10:48 AM if duskblades are supposed to be almost a parallel to the bladesinger why is it a core class? in my campaign i really dont like the duskblade as core so my proposition is to make it a PrC. my only problem is How?

what are duskblades and where r they defined?
witch book i mean? :tie:
BelainDefenderofJerusalem
04-28-07, 11:14 AM phb2 and the article im referring to is Here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070228
EytanBernstein
04-29-07, 04:21 AM The reason it's a core class have nothing to do with FR. The class came out independent of the setting and the articles are an attempt to work in the non-PHB classes into the setting. You can either turn the Duskblade into a PrC or the Bladesinger into a core class. The latter is probably easier because the Duskblade is a relatively balanced class, but none of the incarnations of the bladesinger have been particularly playable.
Valgard
04-29-07, 06:24 AM Look for this. It's a bladesinger core class based on the duskblade (rather than a duskblade prestige class based on the bladesinger). This was post a while ago by Evil Weevil and, considering that the search tool does not work very well, I'm posting it here:

Originally posted by Evil Weevil

Insert Bladesinger flavor text from the Races of Faerun. This avoids lawsuit, and legal stuff that makes me nervous.
Base Save Bonuses: A bladesinger has good Reflex and Will saves, but has poor Fortitude saves.
Class Skills: The bladesinger’s class skill list includes all Perform skills.
Special Requirement: Must be Elf or Half-Elf.

Class Features:
The bladesinger has all the standard duskblade class features, except as noted below.

Spells: A bladesinger prepares and casts arcane spells, which are drawn from the bladesinger spell list (see below). She is limited to a certain number of spells of each level per day, according to her class level. A bladesinger must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time like a wizard (see Preparing Wizard Spells, page 177 of the Player’s Handbook). To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, a bladesinger must have an Intelligence score of at least 10 + the spell’s level. A bladesinger’s bonus spells are based on Intelligence. The Difficulty Class for saving throws against bladesinger spells is 10 + the level of the spell + the bladesinger’s Intelligence modifier. In addition, she receives bonus spells if she has a high Intelligence score (see Table 1–1: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells, page 8 of the Player’s Handbook). The bladesinger’s caster level is equal to her bladesinger class level. A bladesinger’s base daily spell allotment is given on the tabe below. A bladesinger begins play knowing all 0th level spells plus 2 1st level spells of his choice, for each point of intelligence modifier the bladesinger know an additional 1st level spell. At each new bladesinger level he gains one new spell of any level he can cast to add to his spellbook. This feature modifies, but does not replace, the standard spellcasting ability of the standard duskblade.

Table: Bladesinger Spell Progression
Class -Spells per day-
Level 0 1 2 3 4 5
1st 3 2 - - - -
2nd 4 2 - - - -
3rd 4 2 - - - -
4th 4 3 - - - -
5th 4 3 1 - - -
6th 4 3 2 - - -
7th 5 3 3 - - -
8th 5 4 3 - - -
9th 5 4 3 1 - -
10th 5 5 3 2 - -
11th 5 5 4 2 - -
12th 5 5 4 3 - -
13th 5 5 4 3 1 -
14th 5 5 4 3 2 -
15th 5 5 4 3 3 -
16th 5 5 5 4 3 -
17th 5 5 5 4 3 1
18th 5 5 5 5 4 2
19th 5 5 5 5 4 3
20th 5 5 5 5 4 3
Bladesong (Su): When wielding a longsword or rapier in one hand (and nothing in the other), the bladesinger gains a dodge bonus to AC equal to her Intelligence modifier. This ability replaces the Arcane Attunement ability of the standard duskblade.
Weapon Focus: The bladesinger gains the Weapon focus feat in either the longsword or rapier. This feat replaces the standard duskblade's Armored Mage (medium) ability.
Spellsong (Su): Starting at 7th level, when wielding a longsword or rapier on one hand (and nothing in the other), the bladesinger can take 10 when making a Concentration check to cast defensively. This feat replaces the standard duskblade's Armored Mage (heavy shield) ability.
Song of Celerity (Su): Starting at 13th level, when wielding a longsword or rapier on one hand (and nothing in the other) and using a full attack action, the bladesinger can cast one bladesinger spell (or arcane spell with a casting time of 1 standard action or less) each round as a free action. This ability replaces the standard duskblade’s Arcane channeling (full attack) ability.
Song of Fury (Su): At 15th level, when wielding a longsword or rapier on one hand (and nothing in the other) and using the full attack action, the bladesinger can make one extra attack on a round at his highest base attack, but this attack and each other made that round take a -2 penalty. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it affects attacks of opportunity the bladesinger might make before his next action. This replaces the the standard duskblade's Quick Cast 3/day ability. From this point on, a bladesinger gets one less use of the Quick Cast ability.
Bladesinger Spell List
The bladesinger’s spell list is different from the standard duskblade spell list. The bladesinger’s spell list appears below:
0-acid splash, daze, detect magic, disrupt undead, flare, light, mage hand, mending, message, prestidigitation, ray of frost, read magic, resistance, stick, touch of fatigue
1-Bigby’s tripping hand, blades of fire, burning hands, cause fear, chill touch, color spray, corrosive touch, critical strike, Kelgore’s fire bolt, lesser deflect, mage armor, magic weapon, obscuring mist, resist energy, rouse, shield, shocking grasp, stand, swift expeditious retreat, true strike
2-animalistic power, bear’s endurance, Bigby’s striking fist, body of the sun, blur, bull’s strength, burning sword, cat’s grace, darkvision, deflect, dimension hop, ghoul touch, invisibility, Melf’s acid arrow, mirror image, protection from arrows, see invisibility, spiderclimb, stretch weapon, sure strike, swift fly, touch of idiocy, whirling blade
3-analyze portal, blink, combust, crown of might, crown of protection, displacement, dispelling touch, energy aegis, energy surge, fly, greater mage armor, greater magic weapon, halt, keen edge, lesser telepathic bond, protection from energy, regroup, reverse arrows, sonic weapon, vampiric touch
4-backlash, Bigby’s interposing hand, channeled pyroburst, diamondsteel, dimension door, dispel magic, enervate, fire shield, greater invisibility, mass darkvision, ray deflection, shout, steeldance, stoneskin, wraithstrike
5-arc of lightning, Bigby’s clenched fist, disintegrate, duelward, firebrand, greater dimension door, hold monster, lesser ironguard, mass fly, reciprocal gyre, slashing dispel, sonic shield, vulnerability, waves of fatigue
Note: Bladesinger resources including spell lists were compiled using Races of Faerūn, Player's Handbook II, and the Spell Compendium.
MerrikCale
04-29-07, 07:44 AM I still would have loved to have seen a Bladesinger core class in the FR Player's Guide
Diffan
04-29-07, 11:56 AM I've seen people play duskblades, and to tell you the truth, I'm not all that impressed. Don't get me wrong, I think the class is nice and I've even come up with a good build for one, but other than that build, duskblade 13/warblade 1/jade phoenix mage 6, I really don't see any PrCs that work well with it. Though it might just be one of those classes that can easily go up to level 20 without having to prestige or multi-class. Either way, it's a good core class but it's not too impressive.

As for bladesingers, I've yet to find a version that's worth the requirements and BS that must be done to become one. I find it rather weak that one of it's higher class abilities is that you can ignore the arcane spell failure with light armour. Uh, you can get that at 2nd level if you multi-class to a fighter and take the substitution level Armored Mage from the Complete Mage book. There is one version that is rather well done is the version on the Elven Netbook page, Kudo's to the developers and contributors of that link.

I know this doesn't answer your question, but it's my opinion that it should stay as is, espically based on the spell selection the class gets. If you want to make it a PrC, then you might just give the class +1 to existing spellclass level for spell progression and keep the rest as is.
AllisterH
05-02-07, 09:11 AM I've seen people play duskblades, and to tell you the truth, I'm not all that impressed. Don't get me wrong, I think the class is nice and I've even come up with a good build for one, but other than that build, duskblade 13/warblade 1/jade phoenix mage 6, I really don't see any PrCs that work well with it. Though it might just be one of those classes that can easily go up to level 20 without having to prestige or multi-class. Either way, it's a good core class but it's not too impressive.

.

It is a lot like the Beguiler (although you could prestige out after level 13) in that it was designed so that you would want to go up to level 20 in the class itself. Pretty much all of the PHB II classes are designed in such a way that you are encouraged to stay in the class (a la the Druid but not as powerful) unlike say the Cleric.
Steelwind
05-02-07, 09:21 AM I just wish they had made the Bladesinger PrC something great and more akin to its 2ed days. Is 8 or 9/10 spellcasting increase THAT much to ask for.
Diffan
05-04-07, 12:47 PM I just wish they had made the Bladesinger PrC something great and more akin to its 2ed days. Is 8 or 9/10 spellcasting increase THAT much to ask for.

Tell me about it, it's 5/10 ratio is just horrid and I cringe everytime I come across it. If it had an 8 or 9/10 spellcasting, I might actually give it some thought.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BelainDefenderofJerusalem 04-28-07, 10:19 AM	if duskblades are supposed to be almost a parallel to the bladesinger why is it a core class? in my campaign i really dont like the duskblade as core so my proposition is to make it a PrC. my only problem is How?
Burningspear 04-28-07, 10:48 AM	if duskblades are supposed to be almost a parallel to the bladesinger why is it a core class? in my campaign i really dont like the duskblade as core so my proposition is to make it a PrC. my only problem is How? what are duskblades and where r they defined? witch book i mean? :tie:
BelainDefenderofJerusalem 04-28-07, 11:14 AM	phb2 and the article im referring to is Here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070228
EytanBernstein 04-29-07, 04:21 AM	The reason it's a core class have nothing to do with FR. The class came out independent of the setting and the articles are an attempt to work in the non-PHB classes into the setting. You can either turn the Duskblade into a PrC or the Bladesinger into a core class. The latter is probably easier because the Duskblade is a relatively balanced class, but none of the incarnations of the bladesinger have been particularly playable.
Valgard 04-29-07, 06:24 AM	Look for this. It's a bladesinger core class based on the duskblade (rather than a duskblade prestige class based on the bladesinger). This was post a while ago by Evil Weevil and, considering that the search tool does not work very well, I'm posting it here: Originally posted by Evil Weevil Insert Bladesinger flavor text from the Races of Faerun. This avoids lawsuit, and legal stuff that makes me nervous. Base Save Bonuses: A bladesinger has good Reflex and Will saves, but has poor Fortitude saves. Class Skills: The bladesinger’s class skill list includes all Perform skills. Special Requirement: Must be Elf or Half-Elf. Class Features: The bladesinger has all the standard duskblade class features, except as noted below. Spells: A bladesinger prepares and casts arcane spells, which are drawn from the bladesinger spell list (see below). She is limited to a certain number of spells of each level per day, according to her class level. A bladesinger must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time like a wizard (see Preparing Wizard Spells, page 177 of the Player’s Handbook). To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, a bladesinger must have an Intelligence score of at least 10 + the spell’s level. A bladesinger’s bonus spells are based on Intelligence. The Difficulty Class for saving throws against bladesinger spells is 10 + the level of the spell + the bladesinger’s Intelligence modifier. In addition, she receives bonus spells if she has a high Intelligence score (see Table 1–1: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells, page 8 of the Player’s Handbook). The bladesinger’s caster level is equal to her bladesinger class level. A bladesinger’s base daily spell allotment is given on the tabe below. A bladesinger begins play knowing all 0th level spells plus 2 1st level spells of his choice, for each point of intelligence modifier the bladesinger know an additional 1st level spell. At each new bladesinger level he gains one new spell of any level he can cast to add to his spellbook. This feature modifies, but does not replace, the standard spellcasting ability of the standard duskblade. Table: Bladesinger Spell Progression Class -Spells per day- Level 0 1 2 3 4 5 1st 3 2 - - - - 2nd 4 2 - - - - 3rd 4 2 - - - - 4th 4 3 - - - - 5th 4 3 1 - - - 6th 4 3 2 - - - 7th 5 3 3 - - - 8th 5 4 3 - - - 9th 5 4 3 1 - - 10th 5 5 3 2 - - 11th 5 5 4 2 - - 12th 5 5 4 3 - - 13th 5 5 4 3 1 - 14th 5 5 4 3 2 - 15th 5 5 4 3 3 - 16th 5 5 5 4 3 - 17th 5 5 5 4 3 1 18th 5 5 5 5 4 2 19th 5 5 5 5 4 3 20th 5 5 5 5 4 3 Bladesong (Su): When wielding a longsword or rapier in one hand (and nothing in the other), the bladesinger gains a dodge bonus to AC equal to her Intelligence modifier. This ability replaces the Arcane Attunement ability of the standard duskblade. Weapon Focus: The bladesinger gains the Weapon focus feat in either the longsword or rapier. This feat replaces the standard duskblade's Armored Mage (medium) ability. Spellsong (Su): Starting at 7th level, when wielding a longsword or rapier on one hand (and nothing in the other), the bladesinger can take 10 when making a Concentration check to cast defensively. This feat replaces the standard duskblade's Armored Mage (heavy shield) ability. Song of Celerity (Su): Starting at 13th level, when wielding a longsword or rapier on one hand (and nothing in the other) and using a full attack action, the bladesinger can cast one bladesinger spell (or arcane spell with a casting time of 1 standard action or less) each round as a free action. This ability replaces the standard duskblade’s Arcane channeling (full attack) ability. Song of Fury (Su): At 15th level, when wielding a longsword or rapier on one hand (and nothing in the other) and using the full attack action, the bladesinger can make one extra attack on a round at his highest base attack, but this attack and each other made that round take a -2 penalty. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it affects attacks of opportunity the bladesinger might make before his next action. This replaces the the standard duskblade's Quick Cast 3/day ability. From this point on, a bladesinger gets one less use of the Quick Cast ability. Bladesinger Spell List The bladesinger’s spell list is different from the standard duskblade spell list. The bladesinger’s spell list appears below: 0-acid splash, daze, detect magic, disrupt undead, flare, light, mage hand, mending, message, prestidigitation, ray of frost, read magic, resistance, stick, touch of fatigue 1-Bigby’s tripping hand, blades of fire, burning hands, cause fear, chill touch, color spray, corrosive touch, critical strike, Kelgore’s fire bolt, lesser deflect, mage armor, magic weapon, obscuring mist, resist energy, rouse, shield, shocking grasp, stand, swift expeditious retreat, true strike 2-animalistic power, bear’s endurance, Bigby’s striking fist, body of the sun, blur, bull’s strength, burning sword, cat’s grace, darkvision, deflect, dimension hop, ghoul touch, invisibility, Melf’s acid arrow, mirror image, protection from arrows, see invisibility, spiderclimb, stretch weapon, sure strike, swift fly, touch of idiocy, whirling blade 3-analyze portal, blink, combust, crown of might, crown of protection, displacement, dispelling touch, energy aegis, energy surge, fly, greater mage armor, greater magic weapon, halt, keen edge, lesser telepathic bond, protection from energy, regroup, reverse arrows, sonic weapon, vampiric touch 4-backlash, Bigby’s interposing hand, channeled pyroburst, diamondsteel, dimension door, dispel magic, enervate, fire shield, greater invisibility, mass darkvision, ray deflection, shout, steeldance, stoneskin, wraithstrike 5-arc of lightning, Bigby’s clenched fist, disintegrate, duelward, firebrand, greater dimension door, hold monster, lesser ironguard, mass fly, reciprocal gyre, slashing dispel, sonic shield, vulnerability, waves of fatigue Note: Bladesinger resources including spell lists were compiled using Races of Faerūn, Player's Handbook II, and the Spell Compendium.
MerrikCale 04-29-07, 07:44 AM	I still would have loved to have seen a Bladesinger core class in the FR Player's Guide
Diffan 04-29-07, 11:56 AM	I've seen people play duskblades, and to tell you the truth, I'm not all that impressed. Don't get me wrong, I think the class is nice and I've even come up with a good build for one, but other than that build, duskblade 13/warblade 1/jade phoenix mage 6, I really don't see any PrCs that work well with it. Though it might just be one of those classes that can easily go up to level 20 without having to prestige or multi-class. Either way, it's a good core class but it's not too impressive. As for bladesingers, I've yet to find a version that's worth the requirements and BS that must be done to become one. I find it rather weak that one of it's higher class abilities is that you can ignore the arcane spell failure with light armour. Uh, you can get that at 2nd level if you multi-class to a fighter and take the substitution level Armored Mage from the Complete Mage book. There is one version that is rather well done is the version on the Elven Netbook page, Kudo's to the developers and contributors of that link. I know this doesn't answer your question, but it's my opinion that it should stay as is, espically based on the spell selection the class gets. If you want to make it a PrC, then you might just give the class +1 to existing spellclass level for spell progression and keep the rest as is.
AllisterH 05-02-07, 09:11 AM	I've seen people play duskblades, and to tell you the truth, I'm not all that impressed. Don't get me wrong, I think the class is nice and I've even come up with a good build for one, but other than that build, duskblade 13/warblade 1/jade phoenix mage 6, I really don't see any PrCs that work well with it. Though it might just be one of those classes that can easily go up to level 20 without having to prestige or multi-class. Either way, it's a good core class but it's not too impressive. . It is a lot like the Beguiler (although you could prestige out after level 13) in that it was designed so that you would want to go up to level 20 in the class itself. Pretty much all of the PHB II classes are designed in such a way that you are encouraged to stay in the class (a la the Druid but not as powerful) unlike say the Cleric.
Steelwind 05-02-07, 09:21 AM	I just wish they had made the Bladesinger PrC something great and more akin to its 2ed days. Is 8 or 9/10 spellcasting increase THAT much to ask for.
Diffan 05-04-07, 12:47 PM	I just wish they had made the Bladesinger PrC something great and more akin to its 2ed days. Is 8 or 9/10 spellcasting increase THAT much to ask for. Tell me about it, it's 5/10 ratio is just horrid and I cringe everytime I come across it. If it had an 8 or 9/10 spellcasting, I might actually give it some thought.