Elves in Kara-tur? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Elves in Kara-tur? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
krocha
07-01-07, 12:35 PM Has there ever been an mention of elves in Kara-tur?
Lord Karsus
07-02-07, 01:39 AM -In the sourcebooks, no. But, if you go digging a little bit, and begin filling in the dots, you discover some Elven influences in the East. For example, the Purple Emperor of Imaskar apparently had some kind of connection to the LeShay. And, according to some sages, the Marioli (Sp?) were LeShay as well.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot. There are also the Eastern Lythari in the Endless Wastes.
MarkusTay63
07-02-07, 03:59 AM The Maraloi are assumed to be either of Fey or Elven origin, and most likely have some connections to either the Spititfolk or the Hengyokai, or both. However, it is never clearly stated in canon that they were NOT human, just ancient and mysterious.

There was a race of Half-Elves called Maviddi that lived in Guge, which is between Tabot and Semphar/Wastes, that lived in semi-subterranean ant-hill like structures.

The Lythari, whom LK mentioned.

There is a small community of Elves that live in the Pleasant Valley Gateway Oasis, which may or may not be Lythari (although like the Lythari, they hail from original from Sossal).

There is a large number of Elves, probably Zakharan, whom dwell in Semphar, as well as some living in communities in and around the Great Wild Wood, working as foresters, of all things.

There is mention of 'something' living underground around the Lake of Mists and specifically Almorel, although that doesn't neccessarily mean Drow.

There is a tribe of 'Desert Elves' (Brown Elves?) living in the Raurin Desert.

There is a mention of 'Ninja Elves' in a Volo novel, Once around the Realms, if I recall. However, he could have been mistaken, or more likely, they traveled from another region to train here (once again, most likely Zakharan in origin).

And last but not least, the Spiritfolk themselves of K-T are very Elven in appearance and temperament, and are quite possibly related to the Elves by way of the Fey.

If you look at a map you can see most of the ancient activity of the Moon and Sun Elves centered around The North, because that is where they first interloped to from Fäerie. Those two sub-races did not spread any further then the Shining South and the Cormanther region over the thousands of years they migrated. The furthest east Elves in Faerûn proper would be the Star Elves, and all of the others found around Toril do not appear to be related to the Moon and Sun Elves in any way, shape, or form.

The rest of them appear to have been either of Dark Elven Stock, or Sylvan (Green or Wild). There is so far no evidence of any surface Elves in K-T, other then 'perhaps' the race of Half-Elves from Guge.
Lord Karsus
07-02-07, 10:01 AM ...Pleasant Valley Gateway Oasis...

-I think that Chinese restaurant is around the corner...;)

There is a tribe of 'Desert Elves' (Brown Elves?) living in the Raurin Desert.

-Damn, I forgot about them. There is a tribe, or perhaps multiple tribes, of "seemingly" Zakharan Desert Elves living in the subterranean city of al-Qahera. They were only featured in a single novel (Darkvision), but more their city can be found in Elves of Faerûn. We're going to have to add those "Desert Elves" in the index- that totally slipped my mind!
XHereticX
07-02-07, 10:34 AM Hmm, as far as I know elves really don't have a prescence in eastern mythology. They are largely replaced by eastern fey-type races like soretami and immortal banshee type creatures.
MerrikCale
07-02-07, 09:33 PM --Damn, I forgot about them. There is a tribe, or perhaps multiple tribes, of "seemingly" Zakharan Desert Elves living in the subterranean city of al-Qahera. They were only featured in a single novel (Darkvision), but more their city can be found in Elves of Faerûn. We're going to have to add those "Desert Elves" in the index- that totally slipped my mind!

whats the Elves of Faerun?
Green Elven Vampire
07-02-07, 11:01 PM -I think that Chinese restaurant is around the corner...;)

-Damn, I forgot about them. There is a tribe, or perhaps multiple tribes, of "seemingly" Zakharan Desert Elves living in the subterranean city of al-Qahera. They were only featured in a single novel (Darkvision), but more their city can be found in Elves of Faerûn. We're going to have to add those "Desert Elves" in the index- that totally slipped my mind!

When did WoTc come out with a book called "Elves of Faerun"? :banghead:
Lord Karsus
07-02-07, 11:58 PM whats the Elves of Faerun?

When did WoTc come out with a book called "Elves of Faerun"? :banghead:

-Yeah, it's not that funny anymore.
Green Elven Vampire
07-03-07, 12:33 AM -Yeah, it's not that funny anymore.

What's not funny anymore??:confused:
Lord Karsus
07-03-07, 12:55 AM -You are both already in the Rogue Gallery anyway...
MarkusTay63
07-03-07, 03:38 AM Forgot about the ones in the Ajmer Forest, formerly known as the Scarlet Jungle. It's just below the Dustwall Mountains, between Durpar and Ulgarth.

Seems these Jungle Elves follow the Adama, as do all the people of the Shining Lands. I doubt they would have turned from the Seldarine, so most likely they are also of Zakharan descent, and may be related to the ones in the desert just north of them.

It seems the Muhjein are a culture originally from Zakhara that migrated north and mixed with the Mar (Vedic) peoples of the Utter East, forming a new culture on the way (Dupari). This culture extends from Ulgarth to Semphar, and as far west as Estagund. Its more then likely that after Fate granted the wish of the Sultan and cast the people out of Al-Qadim to the four corners of Zakhara, the Southern Elves and Halflings migrated with them and came north.

Thats how we got so many of these non-Seldarine worshipping Elves throughout that region. Those Elves probably migrated to Toril long before the founding of Tintageer, and hence why they do not know of the Seldarine.

Thats my story and I'm sticking to it. :P
Lord Karsus
07-03-07, 09:59 AM Thats how we got so many of these non-Seldarine worshipping Elves throughout that region. Those Elves probably migrated to Toril long before the founding of Tintageer, and hence why they do not know of the Seldarine.

Thats my story and I'm sticking to it. :P

-It doesn't necessarily have to be that "extreme". There are a lot of situations that could lead these Elves to not knowing of the Seldarine. Theoretically, anything is possible!

-And, for the record, we don't know if they know of the Seldarine or not. We have, what, a whole five or six full pages written on the entire culture?
MarkusTay63
07-03-07, 02:01 PM If I add up every source of these Elves (and that would include the ones we 'think' may be from Zakhara), I doubt it would even fill a page.

In my prehistory Myths, Tintageer was founded by Corellon (5000 years before it's fall) and then ascended. If the Zakharan Elves knew of him at all, they probably remember him only as an epic hero (demi-god?).

This taken from a site about the Elves of Athas, who would belong to the sub-race I have dubbed 'Brown Elves', who are a nomadic branch of Wild Elves. -

"Elves share a rich oral tradition, with many myths about their origins, and twice as many myths about the successes of their tribes. But none of these stories seem to agree. For example, every tribe claims that it was founded by Coraanu, and blessed by Coraanu to be the greatest elven tribe. Coraanu is the universal father of the elven people, but the tales his exploits vary from tribe to tribe, and even from year to year."

The Brown Elves, being nomadic, were among the very first Elves to spread through the cosmos. So going by the above, we can see thay Corannu (obviously Corellon) was more of a heroic-leader type early on, that developed into the god he is today. Pure conjecture on my part, but as you can see I've gone much further afield when trying to trace the roots of the Elven people.

BTW, according to Dark Sun sources, Elves, Dwarves, Humans, etc... are all descended from Halflings! Since that setting pegs the year these 'new' races came into existance as -11,584 DR, it is obviously a false myth - Even the Dwarves were on Toril before then. I do find it interesting that these ancient Halfling myths originated on Athas, a desert world, and the first known Halflings in FR are recorded to have been brought from ZAKHARA by the Dgen. It would seem to me that the Hin were originally a Desert race, and their nomadic tendencies compliment this theory.

Sorry, I digress from the subject of Elves, but I find pre-history connections facinating. :)
MerrikCale
07-03-07, 11:23 PM -Yeah, it's not that funny anymore.

sure it is
MerrikCale
07-03-07, 11:23 PM -You are both already in the Rogue Gallery anyway...

alright. :D
Lord Karsus
07-04-07, 05:55 PM -One day, you might even be an Epic Rogue. Eat your brussel sprouts.
MerrikCale
07-04-07, 09:26 PM -One day, you might even be an Epic Rogue. Eat your brussel sprouts.

you mean like Gord?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
krocha 07-01-07, 12:35 PM	Has there ever been an mention of elves in Kara-tur?
Lord Karsus 07-02-07, 01:39 AM	-In the sourcebooks, no. But, if you go digging a little bit, and begin filling in the dots, you discover some Elven influences in the East. For example, the Purple Emperor of Imaskar apparently had some kind of connection to the LeShay. And, according to some sages, the Marioli (Sp?) were LeShay as well. EDIT: Oh, I forgot. There are also the Eastern Lythari in the Endless Wastes.
MarkusTay63 07-02-07, 03:59 AM	The Maraloi are assumed to be either of Fey or Elven origin, and most likely have some connections to either the Spititfolk or the Hengyokai, or both. However, it is never clearly stated in canon that they were NOT human, just ancient and mysterious. There was a race of Half-Elves called Maviddi that lived in Guge, which is between Tabot and Semphar/Wastes, that lived in semi-subterranean ant-hill like structures. The Lythari, whom LK mentioned. There is a small community of Elves that live in the Pleasant Valley Gateway Oasis, which may or may not be Lythari (although like the Lythari, they hail from original from Sossal). There is a large number of Elves, probably Zakharan, whom dwell in Semphar, as well as some living in communities in and around the Great Wild Wood, working as foresters, of all things. There is mention of 'something' living underground around the Lake of Mists and specifically Almorel, although that doesn't neccessarily mean Drow. There is a tribe of 'Desert Elves' (Brown Elves?) living in the Raurin Desert. There is a mention of 'Ninja Elves' in a Volo novel, Once around the Realms, if I recall. However, he could have been mistaken, or more likely, they traveled from another region to train here (once again, most likely Zakharan in origin). And last but not least, the Spiritfolk themselves of K-T are very Elven in appearance and temperament, and are quite possibly related to the Elves by way of the Fey. If you look at a map you can see most of the ancient activity of the Moon and Sun Elves centered around The North, because that is where they first interloped to from Fäerie. Those two sub-races did not spread any further then the Shining South and the Cormanther region over the thousands of years they migrated. The furthest east Elves in Faerûn proper would be the Star Elves, and all of the others found around Toril do not appear to be related to the Moon and Sun Elves in any way, shape, or form. The rest of them appear to have been either of Dark Elven Stock, or Sylvan (Green or Wild). There is so far no evidence of any surface Elves in K-T, other then 'perhaps' the race of Half-Elves from Guge.
Lord Karsus 07-02-07, 10:01 AM	...Pleasant Valley Gateway Oasis... -I think that Chinese restaurant is around the corner...;) There is a tribe of 'Desert Elves' (Brown Elves?) living in the Raurin Desert. -Damn, I forgot about them. There is a tribe, or perhaps multiple tribes, of "seemingly" Zakharan Desert Elves living in the subterranean city of al-Qahera. They were only featured in a single novel (Darkvision), but more their city can be found in Elves of Faerûn. We're going to have to add those "Desert Elves" in the index- that totally slipped my mind!
XHereticX 07-02-07, 10:34 AM	Hmm, as far as I know elves really don't have a prescence in eastern mythology. They are largely replaced by eastern fey-type races like soretami and immortal banshee type creatures.
MerrikCale 07-02-07, 09:33 PM	--Damn, I forgot about them. There is a tribe, or perhaps multiple tribes, of "seemingly" Zakharan Desert Elves living in the subterranean city of al-Qahera. They were only featured in a single novel (Darkvision), but more their city can be found in Elves of Faerûn. We're going to have to add those "Desert Elves" in the index- that totally slipped my mind! whats the Elves of Faerun?
Green Elven Vampire 07-02-07, 11:01 PM	-I think that Chinese restaurant is around the corner...;) -Damn, I forgot about them. There is a tribe, or perhaps multiple tribes, of "seemingly" Zakharan Desert Elves living in the subterranean city of al-Qahera. They were only featured in a single novel (Darkvision), but more their city can be found in Elves of Faerûn. We're going to have to add those "Desert Elves" in the index- that totally slipped my mind! When did WoTc come out with a book called "Elves of Faerun"? :banghead:
Lord Karsus 07-02-07, 11:58 PM	whats the Elves of Faerun? When did WoTc come out with a book called "Elves of Faerun"? :banghead: -Yeah, it's not that funny anymore.
Green Elven Vampire 07-03-07, 12:33 AM	-Yeah, it's not that funny anymore. What's not funny anymore??:confused:
Lord Karsus 07-03-07, 12:55 AM	-You are both already in the Rogue Gallery anyway...
MarkusTay63 07-03-07, 03:38 AM	Forgot about the ones in the Ajmer Forest, formerly known as the Scarlet Jungle. It's just below the Dustwall Mountains, between Durpar and Ulgarth. Seems these Jungle Elves follow the Adama, as do all the people of the Shining Lands. I doubt they would have turned from the Seldarine, so most likely they are also of Zakharan descent, and may be related to the ones in the desert just north of them. It seems the Muhjein are a culture originally from Zakhara that migrated north and mixed with the Mar (Vedic) peoples of the Utter East, forming a new culture on the way (Dupari). This culture extends from Ulgarth to Semphar, and as far west as Estagund. Its more then likely that after Fate granted the wish of the Sultan and cast the people out of Al-Qadim to the four corners of Zakhara, the Southern Elves and Halflings migrated with them and came north. Thats how we got so many of these non-Seldarine worshipping Elves throughout that region. Those Elves probably migrated to Toril long before the founding of Tintageer, and hence why they do not know of the Seldarine. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it. :P
Lord Karsus 07-03-07, 09:59 AM	Thats how we got so many of these non-Seldarine worshipping Elves throughout that region. Those Elves probably migrated to Toril long before the founding of Tintageer, and hence why they do not know of the Seldarine. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it. :P -It doesn't necessarily have to be that "extreme". There are a lot of situations that could lead these Elves to not knowing of the Seldarine. Theoretically, anything is possible! -And, for the record, we don't know if they know of the Seldarine or not. We have, what, a whole five or six full pages written on the entire culture?
MarkusTay63 07-03-07, 02:01 PM	If I add up every source of these Elves (and that would include the ones we 'think' may be from Zakhara), I doubt it would even fill a page. In my prehistory Myths, Tintageer was founded by Corellon (5000 years before it's fall) and then ascended. If the Zakharan Elves knew of him at all, they probably remember him only as an epic hero (demi-god?). This taken from a site about the Elves of Athas, who would belong to the sub-race I have dubbed 'Brown Elves', who are a nomadic branch of Wild Elves. - "Elves share a rich oral tradition, with many myths about their origins, and twice as many myths about the successes of their tribes. But none of these stories seem to agree. For example, every tribe claims that it was founded by Coraanu, and blessed by Coraanu to be the greatest elven tribe. Coraanu is the universal father of the elven people, but the tales his exploits vary from tribe to tribe, and even from year to year." The Brown Elves, being nomadic, were among the very first Elves to spread through the cosmos. So going by the above, we can see thay Corannu (obviously Corellon) was more of a heroic-leader type early on, that developed into the god he is today. Pure conjecture on my part, but as you can see I've gone much further afield when trying to trace the roots of the Elven people. BTW, according to Dark Sun sources, Elves, Dwarves, Humans, etc... are all descended from Halflings! Since that setting pegs the year these 'new' races came into existance as -11,584 DR, it is obviously a false myth - Even the Dwarves were on Toril before then. I do find it interesting that these ancient Halfling myths originated on Athas, a desert world, and the first known Halflings in FR are recorded to have been brought from ZAKHARA by the Dgen. It would seem to me that the Hin were originally a Desert race, and their nomadic tendencies compliment this theory. Sorry, I digress from the subject of Elves, but I find pre-history connections facinating. :)
MerrikCale 07-03-07, 11:23 PM	-Yeah, it's not that funny anymore. sure it is
MerrikCale 07-03-07, 11:23 PM	-You are both already in the Rogue Gallery anyway... alright. :D
Lord Karsus 07-04-07, 05:55 PM	-One day, you might even be an Epic Rogue. Eat your brussel sprouts.
MerrikCale 07-04-07, 09:26 PM	-One day, you might even be an Epic Rogue. Eat your brussel sprouts. you mean like Gord?