Fiend Mating [Archive] - Wizards Community

Fiend Mating [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Beaver
08-17-07, 12:11 AM Can devils and demons actually produce spawn within their own races, or can they only create half fiends?
Suin Bahhar
08-17-07, 01:23 PM I would have to say yes they can procreate amongst themselves, but I'm not really sure on this...
BlackHalfDragon
08-17-07, 02:05 PM do devils bargain for souls which start out at the lowest rank usually but more powerful people can start off higher.

If they survive a long time (centuries I'd imagine) then they can become stronger

same wiht demons but they steal the souls instead
boards
08-17-07, 06:10 PM Arch Devils at least are capable of mating and producing an arch devil, the reason Asmo tends not to like this happening. IIRC Glasyra is the daughter of Asmodeus and Benzoia, a she-devil so definately able to mate their.
MerrikCale
08-18-07, 09:54 PM Sorry. When I saw the title, I thought this thread was about my honeymoon. My bad.
derekkohn
08-19-07, 11:21 PM doesn't sound good MerrikCale
MerrikCale
08-19-07, 11:29 PM doesn't sound good MerrikCale

you'd be surprised;)
godbeepit
08-19-07, 11:40 PM Yeah, I'd agree with MerrikCale. Fiend mating is definitely where it's at.

Also, I don't think it's been stated anywhere that fiends are not allowed to procreate amongst themselves. Obviously, the unique arch-devils can and do, but I see no problem with it among the lower ranked devils as well. I mean, succubus and pleasure devil much?
Shemeska the Marauder
08-20-07, 12:11 AM Tanar'ri
Tanar'ri can, will, and do breed amongst themselves to form more of their own type, or new types, it's the Abyss after all. However so-called True Tanar'ri cannot breed their own kind. That subset of tanar'ri can only form via the promotion of less powerful tanar'ri.
Some unique tanar'ri are the spawn of other unique tanar'ri (Graz'zt, Vucarik, Lupercio, and likely others are the literal children of the obyrith Pale Night), but this seems to be the exception compared to Tanar'ri who rise to unique status from petitioner status (like Orcus), or those who spontaneously formed from the Abyss itself (Demogorgon).

Baatezu
Unique/noble baatezu can breed amongst themselves
All rank and file baatezu with the exception of Erinyes cannot breed their own kind. Erinyes aside, all baatezu are formed via the promotion of lesser caste devils, ultimately formed from the souls/petitioners of dead mortals.

Yugoloths
All lesser yugoloths can breed to form mezzoloths.
Nycaloths can breed more nycaloths.
Arcanaloths can breed more arcanaloths.
Ultroloths can make arcanaloths via parthenogenesis.

Demodands

They don't breed among their own kind, and seem entirely incapable of it. They're exclusively formed/created by the actions of their racial creator/god Apomps the Triple Aspected (itself an exiled baernaloth) who fashions new demodands from the corpses of other beings who die within Carceri
White_Wizard
08-26-07, 01:57 PM Well, it's really simple to figure out: 34 years of D&D and they're still in the Monster books, so I think yes, they actually can mate. :tongue:
Beaver
08-28-07, 01:00 PM I have been told that in order to make new devils, they bargain for the souls of the dead in the fugue plane (With Kelemovor's permission).

Demons, however, break in and steal souls from the plane much to Kelemvor's shagrin, in turn using their 'energy' to spawn demons...

Is this wrong?
Gemcaster
08-28-07, 01:30 PM Yes they can, I remember an article somewhere talking about a balor pit fiend child I cant remember what they are called but it began with an R.
1 ton ghost
08-28-07, 01:48 PM recommended: Book of Erotic Fantasy. 3rd ed. i think.

hard to get but rewarding in it's own right. if i remember correctly, outsiders can opt w/ 100% sucess impregnation w/in a mortal (normal race) vessel.

as for fiends being able to mate true, i'd rule yes, but w/ the bigger fish philosophy most would get gobbled up and perpetuate the XP of others.
eehamburg
08-28-07, 03:33 PM Sorry. When I saw the title, I thought this thread was about my honeymoon. My bad.

That is great ... I love it ... kind of reminds me of my honeymoon as well ...

:love: :rofl: :heehee
Shemeska the Marauder
08-28-07, 04:46 PM I have been told that in order to make new devils, they bargain for the souls of the dead in the fugue plane (With Kelemovor's permission).

Demons, however, break in and steal souls from the plane much to Kelemvor's shagrin, in turn using their 'energy' to spawn demons...

Is this wrong?

No, it's not wrong. But it's only a part of the whole picture. Baatezu might bargain for souls, and make more of themselves with those souls, but they also collect the souls of mortals who prior to death indebt themselves to Baator or its resident fiends. They're also collecting the souls of LE mortals who are not claimed by any patron deity (not from Toril, but from innumerable other worlds).

Likewise, tanar'ri may steal souls from the fugue, and can create more of their kind from those souls, but that's not the only way they multiply their numbers (nor is the fugue with the souls of Toril's dead the only place they're culling petitioners from).
Beaver
08-28-07, 05:20 PM So, they can mate amongst themselves...

I just seemed as though almost every powerful archfiend or demonlord only had halffiend offspring ....
Zanan
08-29-07, 04:29 AM The Fiendish Codex II - Tyrants of the Nine Hells sheds light on this topic in more detail. Shem has already said how it works and as for mating AND procreation, erinnyes and brachinas (pleasure devils) are the only ones who can actually give birth to off-spring themselves.
capnvan
08-29-07, 09:18 AM Tanar'ri
Tanar'ri can, will, and do breed amongst themselves to form more of their own type, or new types, it's the Abyss after all.

Shemeska, I'm not sure where you're getting that. Fiendish Codex I - Hordes of the Abyss, states (p. 7):

"Reproduction: Some demons can have sex if they choose (though not all of them have the necessary "equipment"), but it is not necessary for procreation, since new demons are formed directly from the chaos of the Abyss [emphasis added]..."
MarkusTay63
08-29-07, 12:51 PM If a Tanarri and Baatezu mated, would we wind up with something 'gender confused'?

Or would it just be a unique form of 'loth?

I think it would be insane, at the very least.... :devil:
Shemeska the Marauder
08-29-07, 10:26 PM Shemeska, I'm not sure where you're getting that.

It's saying the same thing that I am. Sexual reproduction is possible, but it's not the only way tanar'ri can make more of themselves. Even if they didn't procreate among themselves, they would still form spontaneously from the raw substance of the Abyss (both true formation de novo, or formed from petitioners arriving in the Abyss).

Some of the lowest ranks of tanar'ri are genderless (ie manes and dretches probably in most cases lack the equipment to procreate). But above that point it's an available option (except as a method of forming any "true tanar'ri").
Shemeska the Marauder
08-29-07, 10:29 PM If a Tanarri and Baatezu mated, would we wind up with something 'gender confused'?

Just such a warped creatured appeared in the module "Bastion of Broken Souls". IIRC, it was in constant pain, and had a mixture of tanar'ri and baatezu abilities.

Or would it just be a unique form of 'loth?

"Bah! Bah I say! Yes yes, all of the "It's a trap!" jokes about the 'loth. Ha ha, ham it up mezzoloth bait..."

:P
godbeepit
08-29-07, 10:54 PM I always figured the mating of a devil and demon created humans?? Since when was it a 'loth?:confused: :confused: :eek:
Zireael
08-30-07, 09:59 AM Can all demons (male) mate with humans (or drow, in that case). Don't tell me glabrezu gives draegloth, I know it. What else? And is it possible to play a demon with class levels, let's say wizard?
Zanan
09-01-07, 04:57 PM Can all demons (male) mate with humans (or drow, in that case). Don't tell me glabrezu gives draegloth, I know it. What else? And is it possible to play a demon with class levels, let's say wizard?

Savage Species is your friend. As has been said, some demons or devils can, others do not. Same with Dragons (half-dragons) ... "being magical creatures" et al ... who have a hard time to get half-dragon offspring, since many cannot shapechange that early in their life (if at all).
There are not that many half-fiends described, other versions than the draegloth are probably the cambions introduced in Expedition to the Demonweb Pits. I did a conversion of the alu-fiends a wee while back too ...

http://www.dnd-gate.de/gate3/page/index.php?id=125

... though I think the sample NPC is still 3E.

As for characters, of course they can be played or used! Succubus, for example might be played from "level" 1 to 12 as "succubus"* and then take up either class levels (beguiler?) or more HD. Most fiends have too high a ECL to be played as characters though, but adding a few class levels to the monsters (marilith blackguard 3 for a CR 20 demoness, perhaps?) as such is easier.

*See Savage Species . A succubus' ECL is 12, from 6 HD and LA +6.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Beaver 08-17-07, 12:11 AM	Can devils and demons actually produce spawn within their own races, or can they only create half fiends?
Suin Bahhar 08-17-07, 01:23 PM	I would have to say yes they can procreate amongst themselves, but I'm not really sure on this...
BlackHalfDragon 08-17-07, 02:05 PM	do devils bargain for souls which start out at the lowest rank usually but more powerful people can start off higher. If they survive a long time (centuries I'd imagine) then they can become stronger same wiht demons but they steal the souls instead
boards 08-17-07, 06:10 PM	Arch Devils at least are capable of mating and producing an arch devil, the reason Asmo tends not to like this happening. IIRC Glasyra is the daughter of Asmodeus and Benzoia, a she-devil so definately able to mate their.
MerrikCale 08-18-07, 09:54 PM	Sorry. When I saw the title, I thought this thread was about my honeymoon. My bad.
derekkohn 08-19-07, 11:21 PM	doesn't sound good MerrikCale
MerrikCale 08-19-07, 11:29 PM	doesn't sound good MerrikCale you'd be surprised;)
godbeepit 08-19-07, 11:40 PM	Yeah, I'd agree with MerrikCale. Fiend mating is definitely where it's at. Also, I don't think it's been stated anywhere that fiends are not allowed to procreate amongst themselves. Obviously, the unique arch-devils can and do, but I see no problem with it among the lower ranked devils as well. I mean, succubus and pleasure devil much?
Shemeska the Marauder 08-20-07, 12:11 AM	Tanar'ri Tanar'ri can, will, and do breed amongst themselves to form more of their own type, or new types, it's the Abyss after all. However so-called True Tanar'ri cannot breed their own kind. That subset of tanar'ri can only form via the promotion of less powerful tanar'ri. Some unique tanar'ri are the spawn of other unique tanar'ri (Graz'zt, Vucarik, Lupercio, and likely others are the literal children of the obyrith Pale Night), but this seems to be the exception compared to Tanar'ri who rise to unique status from petitioner status (like Orcus), or those who spontaneously formed from the Abyss itself (Demogorgon). Baatezu Unique/noble baatezu can breed amongst themselves All rank and file baatezu with the exception of Erinyes cannot breed their own kind. Erinyes aside, all baatezu are formed via the promotion of lesser caste devils, ultimately formed from the souls/petitioners of dead mortals. Yugoloths All lesser yugoloths can breed to form mezzoloths. Nycaloths can breed more nycaloths. Arcanaloths can breed more arcanaloths. Ultroloths can make arcanaloths via parthenogenesis. Demodands They don't breed among their own kind, and seem entirely incapable of it. They're exclusively formed/created by the actions of their racial creator/god Apomps the Triple Aspected (itself an exiled baernaloth) who fashions new demodands from the corpses of other beings who die within Carceri
White_Wizard 08-26-07, 01:57 PM	Well, it's really simple to figure out: 34 years of D&D and they're still in the Monster books, so I think yes, they actually can mate. :tongue:
Beaver 08-28-07, 01:00 PM	I have been told that in order to make new devils, they bargain for the souls of the dead in the fugue plane (With Kelemovor's permission). Demons, however, break in and steal souls from the plane much to Kelemvor's shagrin, in turn using their 'energy' to spawn demons... Is this wrong?
Gemcaster 08-28-07, 01:30 PM	Yes they can, I remember an article somewhere talking about a balor pit fiend child I cant remember what they are called but it began with an R.
1 ton ghost 08-28-07, 01:48 PM	recommended: Book of Erotic Fantasy. 3rd ed. i think. hard to get but rewarding in it's own right. if i remember correctly, outsiders can opt w/ 100% sucess impregnation w/in a mortal (normal race) vessel. as for fiends being able to mate true, i'd rule yes, but w/ the bigger fish philosophy most would get gobbled up and perpetuate the XP of others.
eehamburg 08-28-07, 03:33 PM	Sorry. When I saw the title, I thought this thread was about my honeymoon. My bad. That is great ... I love it ... kind of reminds me of my honeymoon as well ... :love: :rofl: :heehee
Shemeska the Marauder 08-28-07, 04:46 PM	I have been told that in order to make new devils, they bargain for the souls of the dead in the fugue plane (With Kelemovor's permission). Demons, however, break in and steal souls from the plane much to Kelemvor's shagrin, in turn using their 'energy' to spawn demons... Is this wrong? No, it's not wrong. But it's only a part of the whole picture. Baatezu might bargain for souls, and make more of themselves with those souls, but they also collect the souls of mortals who prior to death indebt themselves to Baator or its resident fiends. They're also collecting the souls of LE mortals who are not claimed by any patron deity (not from Toril, but from innumerable other worlds). Likewise, tanar'ri may steal souls from the fugue, and can create more of their kind from those souls, but that's not the only way they multiply their numbers (nor is the fugue with the souls of Toril's dead the only place they're culling petitioners from).
Beaver 08-28-07, 05:20 PM	So, they can mate amongst themselves... I just seemed as though almost every powerful archfiend or demonlord only had halffiend offspring ....
Zanan 08-29-07, 04:29 AM	The Fiendish Codex II - Tyrants of the Nine Hells sheds light on this topic in more detail. Shem has already said how it works and as for mating AND procreation, erinnyes and brachinas (pleasure devils) are the only ones who can actually give birth to off-spring themselves.
capnvan 08-29-07, 09:18 AM	Tanar'ri Tanar'ri can, will, and do breed amongst themselves to form more of their own type, or new types, it's the Abyss after all. Shemeska, I'm not sure where you're getting that. Fiendish Codex I - Hordes of the Abyss, states (p. 7): "Reproduction: Some demons can have sex if they choose (though not all of them have the necessary "equipment"), but it is not necessary for procreation, since new demons are formed directly from the chaos of the Abyss [emphasis added]..."
MarkusTay63 08-29-07, 12:51 PM	If a Tanarri and Baatezu mated, would we wind up with something 'gender confused'? Or would it just be a unique form of 'loth? I think it would be insane, at the very least.... :devil:
Shemeska the Marauder 08-29-07, 10:26 PM	Shemeska, I'm not sure where you're getting that. It's saying the same thing that I am. Sexual reproduction is possible, but it's not the only way tanar'ri can make more of themselves. Even if they didn't procreate among themselves, they would still form spontaneously from the raw substance of the Abyss (both true formation de novo, or formed from petitioners arriving in the Abyss). Some of the lowest ranks of tanar'ri are genderless (ie manes and dretches probably in most cases lack the equipment to procreate). But above that point it's an available option (except as a method of forming any "true tanar'ri").
Shemeska the Marauder 08-29-07, 10:29 PM	If a Tanarri and Baatezu mated, would we wind up with something 'gender confused'? Just such a warped creatured appeared in the module "Bastion of Broken Souls". IIRC, it was in constant pain, and had a mixture of tanar'ri and baatezu abilities. Or would it just be a unique form of 'loth? "Bah! Bah I say! Yes yes, all of the "It's a trap!" jokes about the 'loth. Ha ha, ham it up mezzoloth bait..." :P
godbeepit 08-29-07, 10:54 PM	I always figured the mating of a devil and demon created humans?? Since when was it a 'loth?:confused: :confused: :eek:
Zireael 08-30-07, 09:59 AM	Can all demons (male) mate with humans (or drow, in that case). Don't tell me glabrezu gives draegloth, I know it. What else? And is it possible to play a demon with class levels, let's say wizard?
Zanan 09-01-07, 04:57 PM	Can all demons (male) mate with humans (or drow, in that case). Don't tell me glabrezu gives draegloth, I know it. What else? And is it possible to play a demon with class levels, let's say wizard? Savage Species is your friend. As has been said, some demons or devils can, others do not. Same with Dragons (half-dragons) ... "being magical creatures" et al ... who have a hard time to get half-dragon offspring, since many cannot shapechange that early in their life (if at all). There are not that many half-fiends described, other versions than the draegloth are probably the cambions introduced in Expedition to the Demonweb Pits. I did a conversion of the alu-fiends a wee while back too ... http://www.dnd-gate.de/gate3/page/index.php?id=125 ... though I think the sample NPC is still 3E. As for characters, of course they can be played or used! Succubus, for example might be played from "level" 1 to 12 as "succubus"* and then take up either class levels (beguiler?) or more HD. Most fiends have too high a ECL to be played as characters though, but adding a few class levels to the monsters (marilith blackguard 3 for a CR 20 demoness, perhaps?) as such is easier. *See Savage Species . A succubus' ECL is 12, from 6 HD and LA +6.