Gnome Articifer? (And gadgeteer classes in general) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Gnome Articifer? (And gadgeteer classes in general) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
FrostWolf
02-27-07, 01:15 PM Nice idea for a class and good flavor, but one thing is driving me nuts. 40 pound helms. At higher levels, any helm you make would be heavy enough to snap a gnomes neck like a twig. So I was wondering, Is there an updated version of this PrC? Maybe a good P.E.A.C.H someone is willing to share?

Also, Has anyone seen, or know about any sort of Gadgeteer/tinkerer/mechanic style of classes, or ideas for adapting an existing class into such a thing?

I'm aware of the Techsmith and Effegy Master, and indeed like them both. But I'd also like to find a few more mechanicly inclined classes. Maybe a base class?

I'd have thought Eberron would have grabbed these up and ran with them, myself.....
BadCatMan
02-27-07, 06:42 PM I thought of the Maester from Complete Adventurer, but that's just gets some crafting bonuses, despite the cool robo-crab in the artwork. It'd be good for a dip to go along with any of the others.

Eberron's Artificer sounded like it should be a gadgeteer inventor type, but it was so disappointingly not.

But there has been no official update to the Gnome Artificer.
Purple Dragon Knight
02-27-07, 06:50 PM The Gnome Artificer needs a revamp badly... I agree. I would love to see a 3.5 version of this class... :weep:
Karsus the Mad
02-27-07, 07:01 PM Other than skill requirement and class skill list, along with 3.5 spell list, it's good as is. Personally, I was a bit...annoyed...that they modeled it after a wizard basis. Lantan, the land where magic is shunned has its most notable PrC requiring the ability to cast arcane magic.......just no...no....I have no problem using spells as a comparison, but not an "equal to".
I'm personally attempting to both update and retroactivly redo the whole thing.
FrostWolf
02-27-07, 08:28 PM That crab thing is in the Wonderus item section of the DMG. The Apparatus of Kwalish.

And Karsus, Like I said, 40 pound helmate. The creation system needs an overhaul. And there needs to be a reduction in the costs or some cheep one shot devices added.
MarkusTay63
02-27-07, 10:51 PM Other than skill requirement and class skill list, along with 3.5 spell list, it's good as is. Personally, I was a bit...annoyed...that they modeled it after a wizard basis. Lantan, the land where magic is shunned has its most notable PrC requiring the ability to cast arcane magic.......just no...no....I have no problem using spells as a comparison, but not an "equal to".
I'm personally attempting to both update and retroactivly redo the whole thing.I was thinking about something like this myself, except as an Arcane version for the Imaskari Artificier. Perhaps two seperate classes that do similar things, but the gnomish one would not require magic?

WotC - Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game, Tinker Class

3rd party -

Privateer Press, Iron Kingdoms - Arcane Mechanic & Bodger Classes
Fantasy Flight Games, Sorcery & Steam, Artificer Class
Pinnacle, Deadlands D20, the Mad Scientist Class

If you just want a good set of rules for creating constructs with existing classes, then I reccomend Mongoose publishing's Encyclopedia Arcane: Constructs; their entire series is excellent in this regard (elaborations on existing mechanics).

Two other items of note, the Mechanomancy Skill from Atlas Games' The Ascension of the magdelene, and the Netbook of Classes, Tome 2 Gifted maker, both of which allow non-magical types to create automata.

These are the only sources I have, but I'm sure there are plenty more of this type out there. I was going to provide a link to the Netbook, but unfortunately I can't find a link that works anywhere. :(
Karsus the Mad
02-28-07, 11:02 AM That crab thing is in the Wonderus item section of the DMG. The Apparatus of Kwalish.

And Karsus, Like I said, 40 pound helmate. The creation system needs an overhaul. And there needs to be a reduction in the costs or some cheep one shot devices added.

A 40 pound helmet is messed up:P Something I did for my Lantanese artificer Npc was to give him a unique extraordinary ability that allows him to craft artificer devices upto 1/16th the size. Here's the exact wording from his writeup
Miniaturization (Ex): Azręal is so skilled in artifice that he can craft any artificer device to take up 1/16th the space (minimum Ľ cubic foot, 1Ľ pounds), similar to if a shrink item spell had been cast on the device. Doing so increases the crafting time to 1 day for every 100gp in materials.
And I also got rid of the minimum 5 charges rule.

I was thinking about something like this myself, except as an Arcane version for the Imaskari Artificier. Perhaps two seperate classes that do similar things, but the gnomish one would not require magic?

The Imaskari, despite their title, seem to have been focused on dimensional magic rather than item creation (The Imaskari Portal Lord Prc over on Candlekeep is excellent), tho' their item creation skills would be excellent as well.
Alac Luin
02-28-07, 01:47 PM Isn't 1/16 a bit much? I'd feel more comfortable at 1/4. But thats just me.

As a comparison, a US Army Kevlar helmet with a PS7 night vision goggles attached weighs around 10 pounds (rough estamate) and requires about 2 square feet space to store.

Also, I may be mistaken, but wouldn't an item that uses the "head" slot normally also take up the "cloak" slot?
Doesn't that kind of say, all the weight is not supported on top of the head?
lavekkia
02-28-07, 03:34 PM After digging a bit i have found this

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=297060
FrostWolf
02-28-07, 08:22 PM Isn't 1/16 a bit much? I'd feel more comfortable at 1/4. But thats just me.

As a comparison, a US Army Kevlar helmet with a PS7 night vision goggles attached weighs around 10 pounds (rough estamate) and requires about 2 square feet space to store.

Also, I may be mistaken, but wouldn't an item that uses the "head" slot normally also take up the "cloak" slot?
Doesn't that kind of say, all the weight is not supported on top of the head?

No, you are partily correct. You can make them (At a higher cost) take up only one slot. But they still have the same weight. Also, If you DON'T make them take up only one slot, you can only have two devices going at one time. Lame.
MarkusTay63
03-01-07, 01:29 AM After digging a bit i have found this

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=297060Great find!

I am SO going to use this. :D
Karsus the Mad
03-01-07, 07:39 AM Isn't 1/16 a bit much? I'd feel more comfortable at 1/4. But thats just me.
Yeah, but I figured if I made it less than that, it wouldn't be too useful since the artificer could just as easily actually cast shrink item (at least on the artificer devices that aren't supernatural). Even then tho', the items can still get a bit hefty when you get into multiple power devices. Especially his goggles, "artificer eyegear (50 charges; true seeing [11th], scrying [7th], goggles slot, 3Ľ pounds)."
But yeah, it is a bit much. I think I'll redo that.

Also, I may be mistaken, but wouldn't an item that uses the "head" slot normally also take up the "cloak" slot?
Doesn't that kind of say, all the weight is not supported on top of the head
As noted, an artificer item typically takes up one slot + either the cloak or belt slot, unless the artificer pays double. I don't like that. I don't mind the double slot, but I'm thinking of going with "an artificer device takes up two associated slots. For example, an artificer device that uses the gauntlet slot must also use either the glove slot or ring slot as well. An artificer device that takes up the head slot must also take up either the goggles slot, amulet slot, or cloak slot.". Unless they pay double of course.
FrostWolf
03-02-07, 10:45 AM As noted, an artificer item typically takes up one slot + either the cloak or belt slot, unless the artificer pays double. I don't like that. I don't mind the double slot, but I'm thinking of going with "an artificer device takes up two associated slots. For example, an artificer device that uses the gauntlet slot must also use either the glove slot or ring slot as well. An artificer device that takes up the head slot must also take up either the goggles slot, amulet slot, or cloak slot.". Unless they pay double of course.

Agreed. Or how about this. stick with the cloak/belt as power source locations. Now, the back/ belt items power EVERYTHING. Your powersource has a set charge, and everything draws from that pool, like a generator. a low level one can only support, say, 5 "points" of equipment. Better stuff would draw more power. Each devise would STILL have it's own charges, and could STILL be made to take up only one slot (Basicly by giving it it's own power supply great enough to support itself).

Also, drasticly reduce the weight, and make better rules for Making device/armor, and device/weapons. Not only is this a spear, but it has a flame thrower attached to the end as well, or a chainsaw like sword, or countless other things.

And a bit of flavor: Your first level of this, you get a special weapon of your choice that you and your DM sit down and make. Could be a big wrench, could be flail made from a chain threded through a pipe, with a bunch of Masterwork licks as the head, Could be a dagger that turns into a grappling hook or a crossbow that fires a bunch of bolts at one time (at a good sized penilty to hit).

Now, who else thought that the gnome was holding an auto-crossbow in the class pic? Well, I too felt teased. So how about, stacking the same effect and using them at the same time?

Thoughts and Ideas? I'm hoping there are enought of us to hash something usefull from this. Maybe, if we get ambitious, make a weaker base class.
Kerison
03-20-07, 01:15 AM WotC - Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game, Tinker Class

None of the Warcraft RPG books were published by WotC. They were published by Arthaus.
Karsus the Mad
03-24-07, 01:10 PM Agreed. Or how about this. stick with the cloak/belt as power source locations. Now, the back/ belt items power EVERYTHING. Your powersource has a set charge, and everything draws from that pool, like a generator. a low level one can only support, say, 5 "points" of equipment. Better stuff would draw more power. Each devise would STILL have it's own charges, and could STILL be made to take up only one slot (Basicly by giving it it's own power supply great enough to support itself).

Working off your idea, I came up with
Artificer Fuel Pack: This device contains five fuel compartments in which fuel, ingredients, and other reagents required to power an artificer device can be stored. There's enough space to contain up to 10 charges for each device attached. Up to five artificer devices can be attached to the fuel pack. When an artificer device is attached to the fuel pack, it uses the fuel pack instead of it's own built in charges. Once a fuel compartment has ran out of charges for the device, refilling the pack costs only 1/10th the cost of the device it powers. An artificer fuel pack takes up the cloak slot.
Creator must be a 7th level Lantanese artificer; Price: 56,000 gp

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FrostWolf 02-27-07, 01:15 PM	Nice idea for a class and good flavor, but one thing is driving me nuts. 40 pound helms. At higher levels, any helm you make would be heavy enough to snap a gnomes neck like a twig. So I was wondering, Is there an updated version of this PrC? Maybe a good P.E.A.C.H someone is willing to share? Also, Has anyone seen, or know about any sort of Gadgeteer/tinkerer/mechanic style of classes, or ideas for adapting an existing class into such a thing? I'm aware of the Techsmith and Effegy Master, and indeed like them both. But I'd also like to find a few more mechanicly inclined classes. Maybe a base class? I'd have thought Eberron would have grabbed these up and ran with them, myself.....
BadCatMan 02-27-07, 06:42 PM	I thought of the Maester from Complete Adventurer, but that's just gets some crafting bonuses, despite the cool robo-crab in the artwork. It'd be good for a dip to go along with any of the others. Eberron's Artificer sounded like it should be a gadgeteer inventor type, but it was so disappointingly not. But there has been no official update to the Gnome Artificer.
Purple Dragon Knight 02-27-07, 06:50 PM	The Gnome Artificer needs a revamp badly... I agree. I would love to see a 3.5 version of this class... :weep:
Karsus the Mad 02-27-07, 07:01 PM	Other than skill requirement and class skill list, along with 3.5 spell list, it's good as is. Personally, I was a bit...annoyed...that they modeled it after a wizard basis. Lantan, the land where magic is shunned has its most notable PrC requiring the ability to cast arcane magic.......just no...no....I have no problem using spells as a comparison, but not an "equal to". I'm personally attempting to both update and retroactivly redo the whole thing.
FrostWolf 02-27-07, 08:28 PM	That crab thing is in the Wonderus item section of the DMG. The Apparatus of Kwalish. And Karsus, Like I said, 40 pound helmate. The creation system needs an overhaul. And there needs to be a reduction in the costs or some cheep one shot devices added.
MarkusTay63 02-27-07, 10:51 PM	Other than skill requirement and class skill list, along with 3.5 spell list, it's good as is. Personally, I was a bit...annoyed...that they modeled it after a wizard basis. Lantan, the land where magic is shunned has its most notable PrC requiring the ability to cast arcane magic.......just no...no....I have no problem using spells as a comparison, but not an "equal to". I'm personally attempting to both update and retroactivly redo the whole thing.I was thinking about something like this myself, except as an Arcane version for the Imaskari Artificier. Perhaps two seperate classes that do similar things, but the gnomish one would not require magic? WotC - Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game, Tinker Class 3rd party - Privateer Press, Iron Kingdoms - Arcane Mechanic & Bodger Classes Fantasy Flight Games, Sorcery & Steam, Artificer Class Pinnacle, Deadlands D20, the Mad Scientist Class If you just want a good set of rules for creating constructs with existing classes, then I reccomend Mongoose publishing's Encyclopedia Arcane: Constructs; their entire series is excellent in this regard (elaborations on existing mechanics). Two other items of note, the Mechanomancy Skill from Atlas Games' The Ascension of the magdelene, and the Netbook of Classes, Tome 2 Gifted maker, both of which allow non-magical types to create automata. These are the only sources I have, but I'm sure there are plenty more of this type out there. I was going to provide a link to the Netbook, but unfortunately I can't find a link that works anywhere. :(
Karsus the Mad 02-28-07, 11:02 AM	That crab thing is in the Wonderus item section of the DMG. The Apparatus of Kwalish. And Karsus, Like I said, 40 pound helmate. The creation system needs an overhaul. And there needs to be a reduction in the costs or some cheep one shot devices added. A 40 pound helmet is messed up:P Something I did for my Lantanese artificer Npc was to give him a unique extraordinary ability that allows him to craft artificer devices upto 1/16th the size. Here's the exact wording from his writeup Miniaturization (Ex): Azręal is so skilled in artifice that he can craft any artificer device to take up 1/16th the space (minimum Ľ cubic foot, 1Ľ pounds), similar to if a shrink item spell had been cast on the device. Doing so increases the crafting time to 1 day for every 100gp in materials. And I also got rid of the minimum 5 charges rule. I was thinking about something like this myself, except as an Arcane version for the Imaskari Artificier. Perhaps two seperate classes that do similar things, but the gnomish one would not require magic? The Imaskari, despite their title, seem to have been focused on dimensional magic rather than item creation (The Imaskari Portal Lord Prc over on Candlekeep is excellent), tho' their item creation skills would be excellent as well.
Alac Luin 02-28-07, 01:47 PM	Isn't 1/16 a bit much? I'd feel more comfortable at 1/4. But thats just me. As a comparison, a US Army Kevlar helmet with a PS7 night vision goggles attached weighs around 10 pounds (rough estamate) and requires about 2 square feet space to store. Also, I may be mistaken, but wouldn't an item that uses the "head" slot normally also take up the "cloak" slot? Doesn't that kind of say, all the weight is not supported on top of the head?
lavekkia 02-28-07, 03:34 PM	After digging a bit i have found this http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=297060
FrostWolf 02-28-07, 08:22 PM	Isn't 1/16 a bit much? I'd feel more comfortable at 1/4. But thats just me. As a comparison, a US Army Kevlar helmet with a PS7 night vision goggles attached weighs around 10 pounds (rough estamate) and requires about 2 square feet space to store. Also, I may be mistaken, but wouldn't an item that uses the "head" slot normally also take up the "cloak" slot? Doesn't that kind of say, all the weight is not supported on top of the head? No, you are partily correct. You can make them (At a higher cost) take up only one slot. But they still have the same weight. Also, If you DON'T make them take up only one slot, you can only have two devices going at one time. Lame.
MarkusTay63 03-01-07, 01:29 AM	After digging a bit i have found this http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=297060Great find! I am SO going to use this. :D
Karsus the Mad 03-01-07, 07:39 AM	Isn't 1/16 a bit much? I'd feel more comfortable at 1/4. But thats just me. Yeah, but I figured if I made it less than that, it wouldn't be too useful since the artificer could just as easily actually cast shrink item (at least on the artificer devices that aren't supernatural). Even then tho', the items can still get a bit hefty when you get into multiple power devices. Especially his goggles, "artificer eyegear (50 charges; true seeing [11th], scrying [7th], goggles slot, 3Ľ pounds)." But yeah, it is a bit much. I think I'll redo that. Also, I may be mistaken, but wouldn't an item that uses the "head" slot normally also take up the "cloak" slot? Doesn't that kind of say, all the weight is not supported on top of the head As noted, an artificer item typically takes up one slot + either the cloak or belt slot, unless the artificer pays double. I don't like that. I don't mind the double slot, but I'm thinking of going with "an artificer device takes up two associated slots. For example, an artificer device that uses the gauntlet slot must also use either the glove slot or ring slot as well. An artificer device that takes up the head slot must also take up either the goggles slot, amulet slot, or cloak slot.". Unless they pay double of course.
FrostWolf 03-02-07, 10:45 AM	As noted, an artificer item typically takes up one slot + either the cloak or belt slot, unless the artificer pays double. I don't like that. I don't mind the double slot, but I'm thinking of going with "an artificer device takes up two associated slots. For example, an artificer device that uses the gauntlet slot must also use either the glove slot or ring slot as well. An artificer device that takes up the head slot must also take up either the goggles slot, amulet slot, or cloak slot.". Unless they pay double of course. Agreed. Or how about this. stick with the cloak/belt as power source locations. Now, the back/ belt items power EVERYTHING. Your powersource has a set charge, and everything draws from that pool, like a generator. a low level one can only support, say, 5 "points" of equipment. Better stuff would draw more power. Each devise would STILL have it's own charges, and could STILL be made to take up only one slot (Basicly by giving it it's own power supply great enough to support itself). Also, drasticly reduce the weight, and make better rules for Making device/armor, and device/weapons. Not only is this a spear, but it has a flame thrower attached to the end as well, or a chainsaw like sword, or countless other things. And a bit of flavor: Your first level of this, you get a special weapon of your choice that you and your DM sit down and make. Could be a big wrench, could be flail made from a chain threded through a pipe, with a bunch of Masterwork licks as the head, Could be a dagger that turns into a grappling hook or a crossbow that fires a bunch of bolts at one time (at a good sized penilty to hit). Now, who else thought that the gnome was holding an auto-crossbow in the class pic? Well, I too felt teased. So how about, stacking the same effect and using them at the same time? Thoughts and Ideas? I'm hoping there are enought of us to hash something usefull from this. Maybe, if we get ambitious, make a weaker base class.
Kerison 03-20-07, 01:15 AM	WotC - Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game, Tinker Class None of the Warcraft RPG books were published by WotC. They were published by Arthaus.
Karsus the Mad 03-24-07, 01:10 PM	Agreed. Or how about this. stick with the cloak/belt as power source locations. Now, the back/ belt items power EVERYTHING. Your powersource has a set charge, and everything draws from that pool, like a generator. a low level one can only support, say, 5 "points" of equipment. Better stuff would draw more power. Each devise would STILL have it's own charges, and could STILL be made to take up only one slot (Basicly by giving it it's own power supply great enough to support itself). Working off your idea, I came up with Artificer Fuel Pack: This device contains five fuel compartments in which fuel, ingredients, and other reagents required to power an artificer device can be stored. There's enough space to contain up to 10 charges for each device attached. Up to five artificer devices can be attached to the fuel pack. When an artificer device is attached to the fuel pack, it uses the fuel pack instead of it's own built in charges. Once a fuel compartment has ran out of charges for the device, refilling the pack costs only 1/10th the cost of the device it powers. An artificer fuel pack takes up the cloak slot. Creator must be a 7th level Lantanese artificer; Price: 56,000 gp