great killer cloaks [Archive] - Wizards Community

great killer cloaks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mr. Master
05-11-07, 04:50 PM The great killer cloak can cast spell as a 9th level wizard and the Faerun's MM says that his spell's progression encrease as his HDs.Does this mean that,if he gets 10 levels as a cleric (=10 HD),then he can cast spells as a 19th level wizard?Or those extra HDs must be wizard ones to improve his spell progression (example: he gets 7 level as a wizard and therefore he can cast spells as a 16th level wizard)?

Thanks.:)
Alac Luin
05-11-07, 05:34 PM Are you useing a translated vertion of this book?
(something other then english)

I'll assume you are talking about the creature called "Cloaker Lord" in Monsters of Faerun.

The line to look at is the last line of the stat block, it reads as such.

Advancement: By character class

This says that you add classes onto this, each level of wizard will add a 1 to the CR.

Being DM, you can do anyling you want really, adding aberation HD would be +1 CR per 4 HD.

In this case I might consider blending wizard levels and Aberition HD...

d8, attack bonus as Wizard, WILL good save, 2+int skill points, spell advancement as wizard.

this is a little stronger then straight wizard levels, at least HP wise, as I wouldn't give it the wizard bonus Feat.
This I'd say is a +1 CR per HD added.

does this mean that,if he gets 10 levels as a cleric (=10 HD),then he can cast spells as a 19th level wizard?Or those extra HDs must be wizard ones to improve his spell progression (example: he gets 7 level as a wizard and therefore he can cast spells as a 16th level wizard)?

I think I may have missed your meaning...

If you add 10 levels of cleric, it would cast as a 10 cleric/9 wizard.

at least this it how I would run it.
Dielzen
05-11-07, 06:43 PM Based on my reading of the Cloaker Lord, I'm going to have to disagree with the last poster.

The Spellcasting section says they cast as a 9th-level Wizard, and this ability improves as they increase in size and Hit Dice. Granted their advancement section says "By character class" but that's still Hit Dice...although it does leave one to wonder how they will increase in size, which would more likely seem to indicate an editorial error.

Regardless of whether it's an error or not, If a Cloaker Lord adds any Hit Dice, their effect Wizard level increases, which would grant them higher level spells, more spell/day, etc.

You'll note that they have 9th Level Wizard spells listed in their spellcasting entry, something a 9th-level wizard would have a wet dream about casting. It's likely that those are preferred spells - in addition to Illusion (Shadow) spells - for a Cloaker Lord to have memorized from all spell levels.

So, to the OP, I'd say a Cloaker Lord with 3 Cleric levels casts as a Clr3/Wiz12. I'd also say that their spell list is limited entirely to the spells they get at each new Wizard level (usually 2) unless you want to deal with a Cloaker language spellbook.
Alac Luin
05-11-07, 07:40 PM My only concern is that it would make then overpowered for the CR.

Also note, that when it says
"<snip>and this ability improves as they increase in size and hit die <snip>"

the cloaker lord has no size advancement.
I'm of the mind that this was a "cut and paste" from the 2ed version, where the HD/spellcasting would have been standard.
(before the time it became more common to add class levels to creatures).

As a DM, just use the books as a guideline, there is nothing wrong doing it either way, just keep in mind to many abilities can overpower your characters, only the DM can realy judge that for their group of PCs.
Mr. Master
05-12-07, 08:09 AM I think that Dielzen's opinion is the right one,but, as Alac Luin points out,I also think that such a solution would make the cloaker lord very powerful.Just think about a cloaker lord Cleric 10°:he would have a CR 16,but he could be able to cast spells as a 17th level wizard and a 10th level cleric.Not to mention the possibility of gaining 10 levels as a sorceror...
However,even if so poweful,I still think that Dielzen's answer is the right one.

x Alac Luin:
I'm Italian and,without an english manual,I translated at my best the italian word for the monster,which is "grande [big,great] manto [cloak] assassino [killer]".In italian,cloaker lord would literally sound as "signore [lord]mantellatore [someone who makes cloaks]",which can't be immediately guessed as a term.
Sorry for the bad translation,but I thank you for your correction.I'm always looking for ways to improve my english.:)
Alac Luin
05-12-07, 06:55 PM I think that Dielzen's opinion is the right one,but, as Alac Luin points out,I also think that such a solution would make the cloaker lord very powerful.Just think about a cloaker lord Cleric 10°:he would have a CR 16,but he could be able to cast spells as a 17th level wizard and a 10th level cleric.Not to mention the possibility of gaining 10 levels as a sorceror...
However,even if so poweful,I still think that Dielzen's answer is the right one.
By the way it is written, I'll agree thats kind of the way it looks. Even if I do say something different :)

x Alac Luin:
I'm Italian and,without an english manual,I translated at my best the italian word for the monster,which is "grande [big,great] manto [cloak] assassino [killer]".In italian,cloaker lord would literally sound as "signore [lord]mantellatore [someone who makes cloaks]",which can't be immediately guessed as a term.
Sorry for the bad translation,but I thank you for your correction.I'm always looking for ways to improve my english.:)
No sweat, even the the best translation can be a "little off" due to differences in implied meanings.
Considering that the words were changed as it went into Italian, it would be near impossible to come up with the original word.
A "tailor of cloaks" does not sound like a fearsome monster. ;)
Mr. Master
05-13-07, 07:30 AM No,it doesn't.:D

I was thinking another thing.Could a cloaker lord get class levels as a specialist wizard,let's say as a necromancer?:confused:
Dielzen
05-13-07, 09:37 AM I would say no...they're already listed as being treated as if specialized in Shadow spells.
Mr. Master
05-18-07, 08:30 AM Does that mean that they are Illusionists? Should I give them 1 extra spell each level as specialist have and also choose a prohibited school?
Or does that mean that they simply prefer to use shadow spells?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mr. Master 05-11-07, 04:50 PM	The great killer cloak can cast spell as a 9th level wizard and the Faerun's MM says that his spell's progression encrease as his HDs.Does this mean that,if he gets 10 levels as a cleric (=10 HD),then he can cast spells as a 19th level wizard?Or those extra HDs must be wizard ones to improve his spell progression (example: he gets 7 level as a wizard and therefore he can cast spells as a 16th level wizard)? Thanks.:)
Alac Luin 05-11-07, 05:34 PM	Are you useing a translated vertion of this book? (something other then english) I'll assume you are talking about the creature called "Cloaker Lord" in Monsters of Faerun. The line to look at is the last line of the stat block, it reads as such. Advancement: By character class This says that you add classes onto this, each level of wizard will add a 1 to the CR. Being DM, you can do anyling you want really, adding aberation HD would be +1 CR per 4 HD. In this case I might consider blending wizard levels and Aberition HD... d8, attack bonus as Wizard, WILL good save, 2+int skill points, spell advancement as wizard. this is a little stronger then straight wizard levels, at least HP wise, as I wouldn't give it the wizard bonus Feat. This I'd say is a +1 CR per HD added. does this mean that,if he gets 10 levels as a cleric (=10 HD),then he can cast spells as a 19th level wizard?Or those extra HDs must be wizard ones to improve his spell progression (example: he gets 7 level as a wizard and therefore he can cast spells as a 16th level wizard)? I think I may have missed your meaning... If you add 10 levels of cleric, it would cast as a 10 cleric/9 wizard. at least this it how I would run it.
Dielzen 05-11-07, 06:43 PM	Based on my reading of the Cloaker Lord, I'm going to have to disagree with the last poster. The Spellcasting section says they cast as a 9th-level Wizard, and this ability improves as they increase in size and Hit Dice. Granted their advancement section says "By character class" but that's still Hit Dice...although it does leave one to wonder how they will increase in size, which would more likely seem to indicate an editorial error. Regardless of whether it's an error or not, If a Cloaker Lord adds any Hit Dice, their effect Wizard level increases, which would grant them higher level spells, more spell/day, etc. You'll note that they have 9th Level Wizard spells listed in their spellcasting entry, something a 9th-level wizard would have a wet dream about casting. It's likely that those are preferred spells - in addition to Illusion (Shadow) spells - for a Cloaker Lord to have memorized from all spell levels. So, to the OP, I'd say a Cloaker Lord with 3 Cleric levels casts as a Clr3/Wiz12. I'd also say that their spell list is limited entirely to the spells they get at each new Wizard level (usually 2) unless you want to deal with a Cloaker language spellbook.
Alac Luin 05-11-07, 07:40 PM	My only concern is that it would make then overpowered for the CR. Also note, that when it says "<snip>and this ability improves as they increase in size and hit die <snip>" the cloaker lord has no size advancement. I'm of the mind that this was a "cut and paste" from the 2ed version, where the HD/spellcasting would have been standard. (before the time it became more common to add class levels to creatures). As a DM, just use the books as a guideline, there is nothing wrong doing it either way, just keep in mind to many abilities can overpower your characters, only the DM can realy judge that for their group of PCs.
Mr. Master 05-12-07, 08:09 AM	I think that Dielzen's opinion is the right one,but, as Alac Luin points out,I also think that such a solution would make the cloaker lord very powerful.Just think about a cloaker lord Cleric 10°:he would have a CR 16,but he could be able to cast spells as a 17th level wizard and a 10th level cleric.Not to mention the possibility of gaining 10 levels as a sorceror... However,even if so poweful,I still think that Dielzen's answer is the right one. x Alac Luin: I'm Italian and,without an english manual,I translated at my best the italian word for the monster,which is "grande [big,great] manto [cloak] assassino [killer]".In italian,cloaker lord would literally sound as "signore [lord]mantellatore [someone who makes cloaks]",which can't be immediately guessed as a term. Sorry for the bad translation,but I thank you for your correction.I'm always looking for ways to improve my english.:)
Alac Luin 05-12-07, 06:55 PM	I think that Dielzen's opinion is the right one,but, as Alac Luin points out,I also think that such a solution would make the cloaker lord very powerful.Just think about a cloaker lord Cleric 10°:he would have a CR 16,but he could be able to cast spells as a 17th level wizard and a 10th level cleric.Not to mention the possibility of gaining 10 levels as a sorceror... However,even if so poweful,I still think that Dielzen's answer is the right one. By the way it is written, I'll agree thats kind of the way it looks. Even if I do say something different :) x Alac Luin: I'm Italian and,without an english manual,I translated at my best the italian word for the monster,which is "grande [big,great] manto [cloak] assassino [killer]".In italian,cloaker lord would literally sound as "signore [lord]mantellatore [someone who makes cloaks]",which can't be immediately guessed as a term. Sorry for the bad translation,but I thank you for your correction.I'm always looking for ways to improve my english.:) No sweat, even the the best translation can be a "little off" due to differences in implied meanings. Considering that the words were changed as it went into Italian, it would be near impossible to come up with the original word. A "tailor of cloaks" does not sound like a fearsome monster. ;)
Mr. Master 05-13-07, 07:30 AM	No,it doesn't.:D I was thinking another thing.Could a cloaker lord get class levels as a specialist wizard,let's say as a necromancer?:confused:
Dielzen 05-13-07, 09:37 AM	I would say no...they're already listed as being treated as if specialized in Shadow spells.
Mr. Master 05-18-07, 08:30 AM	Does that mean that they are Illusionists? Should I give them 1 extra spell each level as specialist have and also choose a prohibited school? Or does that mean that they simply prefer to use shadow spells?