how long will a human last without sunlight in the underdark [Archive] - Wizards Community

how long will a human last without sunlight in the underdark [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Francho1
05-13-07, 06:57 PM how long would he last, by this i mean if he is been taking prisoner by any of the underdark races.

or by default any surface gnome, halfling or elf.
Zandilar
05-13-07, 07:20 PM Heya,

how long would he last, by this i mean if he is been taking prisoner by any of the underdark races.

or by default any surface gnome, halfling or elf.

Being a prisoner of the Underdark races would significantly reduce one's lifespan, but this has nothing to do with physically being in the Underdark. Unless they were particularly useful to their new masters, of course - in which case I'm fairly sure they'd be able to last at least as long as their natural lifespans, depending on how well they were treated.
Straploknight
05-13-07, 08:26 PM with a vitamin D supplament, probably a long time (isn't it sunlight that the body uses to help produce vitamin D???)

Then again in a fantasy world, I'd have to agree with Zandilar
DojiHoturi
05-14-07, 12:20 AM Yes,

Sunlight helps with Vitamin D production (alot, in fact) but it is not the only source of it. A fair number of foods contain it as well. There are a number of minor (and, potentially, a few major) ailments that come from lack of vitamin D, but again, the sun is only one source.

It certainly would not be pleasant, but a human could last a good while underground, I would go so far as to say several years. The greater threat is the fact that they are being forced to stay underground by some folks that are probably not looking out for the human's best interest.

Now magic is a wonderful thing. You could assume that magical healing could also affect things like vitamin deficiencies and such (sounds extremely reasonable to me, considering you can regrow limbs and come back to life with the right spell). Then they would last many many years.

With a proper diet and occasional trips to the surface, I think a human could 'stay' underground indefinitely. Keep in mind, there are prisoners in the American prison system that see the sun only 1 hour a day for many years.

2 pennies,

Doji
Another Gnome
05-14-07, 03:32 AM Now magic is a wonderful thing. You could assume that magical healing could also affect things like vitamin deficiencies and such (sounds extremely reasonable to me, considering you can regrow limbs and come back to life with the right spell). Then they would last many many years.

Basic curative spells do not help against malnutrition, this is documented in the rules. Even heal can't cure the nonlethal damage from starvation (nor does the spell description have anything to imply that the spell would stop the condition of starvation), so it seems to me the reasonable assumption would be that healing spells don't work as vitamin injections.

That said, obviously there are plenty of spells and magic items decidedly meant as a substitute for food. A prime example would be ring of sustenance that is even oblivious to what the wearer normally feeds on; it would sustain a vampire or a treant just the same as a human.

Regardless, seeing how people as varied as drow, duergar, and svirfneblin clearly don't suffer from lack of sunlight, you can always just say that the food available in the Underdark is rich in vitamins, and nobody can make a case against that.
Francho1
05-14-07, 04:04 PM thanks, the ocational trip to the surface, or the high concetration of vit. D in the food of the underdark could keep a surface dweller indefinetly.
Stigger
05-14-07, 04:23 PM Don't think the human body can actually process vitamin D without sunlight actually... without it, vitamin D can lead to poisoning if I'm not mistaken.
Francho1
05-14-07, 09:45 PM that is why i never see in any souce book a large population of human, elf or halfling slaves for any of the underdark races. Even if there not mistreated(human held prisoner by deep gnomes) or he will go mad or die because of the lack of sunlight. In this aspect we wanted to give a touch of realisim, and we were asuming that any creature with natural dark vision can process vitamin d withought any need for sunlight.But any of the surface races wont last that much.
GothicDan
05-14-07, 10:48 PM There's also psychological/neurological issues that come with too little sunlight, of course. I recently suffered from a touch of light depravation side effects, during finals, while I was too busy to get my light bulb replaced and went for about 2 weeks with only minimal light.

It was not fun.
Andyr
05-15-07, 06:47 AM IIRC parts of the underdark glow due to phosphorescent fungi growing on cavern walls--I suppose you could say that the glow is enough not to drive you barmy. Perhaps it could even help with vitamin D.

But, yeah, I imagine living down there would have some pretty detrimental effects on a surfacer's health!
Zandilar
05-15-07, 07:17 PM Heya,

There's actually a type of Vitamin D, D3, that comes from certian types of plants and funguses. While Vitamin D2 is definitely better for us (more easily produced), we could, theoretically, be sustained wholely on D3.

It could be that the fungi found in the underdark are rich in D3.

The other thing to keep in mind is that D2 is produced in the human skin by interaction with certian wavelengths of UV light. Now while the Sun is the most obvious source of this, it might be possible that there's enough exposure to UV light via magical light sources and phospherescant funguses. (I don't really know, as I'm not a scientist/physicist. I'm sure someone'd be able to say if the latter was possible or not. On the former - with magic, anything's possible.)
Karsus the Mad
05-15-07, 07:47 PM I currently live in Oulu, Finland. I'm used to conditions in Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA. There's a period where there's only about 2-3 hours (if I'm lucky. For some weeks I'm above the Arctic Circle) of sunlight for a few months. Even during those few hours I was indoors working. I litterally went several months without sunlight (I hadn't yet figured out the whole artificial light thingy). I eventually had to take sick leave (in which I spent about 3 hours a day under a sun lamp) due to litterally going psychotic from the lack of sunlight. It's a horrid thing not being in control of ones self. I'm utterly amazed at how important sunlight is. Truly it's one of the things taken for granted. A human of the surface being forced to live in the Underdark...egads...I would imagine it'd be something similar to what I went through. NOT FUN, scary, and being utterly useless.
Zandilar
05-16-07, 01:56 AM Heya,

I currently live in Oulu, Finland. I'm used to conditions in Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA. There's a period where there's only about 2-3 hours (if I'm lucky. For some weeks I'm above the Arctic Circle) of sunlight for a few months. Even during those few hours I was indoors working. I litterally went several months without sunlight (I hadn't yet figured out the whole artificial light thingy). I eventually had to take sick leave (in which I spent about 3 hours a day under a sun lamp) due to litterally going psychotic from the lack of sunlight. It's a horrid thing not being in control of ones self. I'm utterly amazed at how important sunlight is. Truly it's one of the things taken for granted. A human of the surface being forced to live in the Underdark...egads...I would imagine it'd be something similar to what I went through. NOT FUN, scary, and being utterly useless.

It sounds like you had a severe case of Seasonal Affective Disorder, which is caused by a biochemical imbalance in the hypothalamus during the winter, when there isn't as much sunlight. It is not caused by a lack of Vitamin D, and the most effective treatment is bright light therapy. It doesn't effect everyone though, and some people experience it more acutely than others.

There probably are a proportion of human slaves that go psychotic... But they wouldn't last all that long, and the Disorder appears to be influenced by genetics (ie: the strong survive).
Lord Karsus
05-17-07, 10:48 AM -Surface Elves would be affected the most by the lack of sunlight, and would eventually wither and die. This is why there are so few Elven slaves down in the Underdark, even though Drow hate them so much.
Agudo Archmage
05-17-07, 01:27 PM If the human gets taken by a Gnome...YIKES!
Then she will be put in the Gnomes rock garden as a cute statue :P

Hmm...but realy from what I have read, most common humans..AKA...cooks, farmers and so on
Would die off quickly in the slave pits of the Drow
As well as any creatures they run into, would just kill them off fast.

Buuuut like the others said this is a fantasy place.
So any thing goes! :)
Zireael
05-21-07, 07:15 AM Yeah, the elves are the most affected by the lack of light. But other races are too. I suppose no human or gnome would survive in Underdark for long, being constantly nearly blinded.
The Ubbergeek
05-21-07, 12:21 PM Gnomes lives underground, not as deep as dwarves though but still, they are used to.
MarkusTay63
05-21-07, 12:50 PM I have it IMG where repeated exposure to Faezress eventually mutates the humans into something that could more easily survive the Underdark... Murlocks. These are 'first-generation' Grimlocks, and still have eyes (although they have next to no sight, because they never develop lowlight or Darkvision). By the very next generation, they start breeding true as Grimlocks. This is both in keeping with canon material (merely adding to it), and VERY creepy.

Think The Hills have Eyes meets FR. ;)
Lord Karsus
05-21-07, 07:07 PM -Good ol' Morlocks...
Zandilar
05-21-07, 08:30 PM Heya,

I have it IMG where repeated exposure to Faezress eventually mutates the humans into something that could more easily survive the Underdark... Murlocks. These are 'first-generation' Grimlocks, and still have eyes (although they have next to no sight, because they never develop lowlight or Darkvision). By the very next generation, they start breeding true as Grimlocks. This is both in keeping with canon material (merely adding to it), and VERY creepy.

...

Murlocks...

MURLOC (http://www.wowwiki.com/Murloc)!

:blink:
GothicDan
05-21-07, 09:32 PM *Laughs.*
Drizztrocks
05-24-07, 04:02 PM how long would he last, by this i mean if he is been taking prisoner by any of the underdark races.

or by default any surface gnome, halfling or elf.

Well, first of all, i feel kind of bad for you. You wanted a simple answer, and now people are off talking about vitamin D. In my opinion, it matters what race. Drow might use them as slaves, hook horrors will slice them open and munch on them, deep gnomes will be curious and respectful to this new race, and duergar will probably poke them spit on them and then chop there heads off.
Karsus the Mad
05-24-07, 09:14 PM Well, first of all, i feel kind of bad for you. You wanted a simple answer, and now people are off talking about vitamin D.
It's part of the CoC. One must accept off-topic subjects caused by the topic. If the OP (or anyone) felt the thread was off-topic, they have the right to note such and kindly ask others to keep on topic.
Me: The secondary topic is FAR more interesting and enlightening.
;););););)
Then again, I'm KtM and I'm a nutcase,
Lord Karsus
05-24-07, 11:31 PM Well, first of all, i feel kind of bad for you. You wanted a simple answer, and now people are off talking about vitamin D.

-When did the OP say he/she wanted a simple answer?
Another Gnome
05-25-07, 01:39 AM (The simple answer being that humans can survive without sunlight indefinitely, because the rules only keep track of generic food and drink.)
Straploknight
05-25-07, 01:50 AM Confound you and your simple logic, excruciating detail and complexity are the hallmark of genius I say. One only has to look at your typical old school VCR and realize that the people who designed these lament boxes were intellectual giants among mere men!

Off with you betrayer of gnomes!:P
Zandilar
05-25-07, 05:03 AM Heya,

Well, first of all, i feel kind of bad for you. You wanted a simple answer, and now people are off talking about vitamin D. In my opinion, it matters what race. Drow might use them as slaves, hook horrors will slice them open and munch on them, deep gnomes will be curious and respectful to this new race, and duergar will probably poke them spit on them and then chop there heads off.

Hmm... I didn't mention Vitamin D in my initial post.

In fact, the only thing I did say in it, boiled down to "it depends on who has captured them, and how useful to their masters they are."

That was a simple answer.
cbailey
05-31-07, 08:15 PM I have it IMG where repeated exposure to Faezress eventually mutates the humans into something that could more easily survive the Underdark... Murlocks. These are 'first-generation' Grimlocks, and still have eyes (although they have next to no sight, because they never develop lowlight or Darkvision). By the very next generation, they start breeding true as Grimlocks. This is both in keeping with canon material (merely adding to it), and VERY creepy.

Think The Hills have Eyes meets FR. ;)

This is the coolest reply in this thread. Awesome idea!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Francho1 05-13-07, 06:57 PM	how long would he last, by this i mean if he is been taking prisoner by any of the underdark races. or by default any surface gnome, halfling or elf.
Zandilar 05-13-07, 07:20 PM	Heya, how long would he last, by this i mean if he is been taking prisoner by any of the underdark races. or by default any surface gnome, halfling or elf. Being a prisoner of the Underdark races would significantly reduce one's lifespan, but this has nothing to do with physically being in the Underdark. Unless they were particularly useful to their new masters, of course - in which case I'm fairly sure they'd be able to last at least as long as their natural lifespans, depending on how well they were treated.
Straploknight 05-13-07, 08:26 PM	with a vitamin D supplament, probably a long time (isn't it sunlight that the body uses to help produce vitamin D???) Then again in a fantasy world, I'd have to agree with Zandilar
DojiHoturi 05-14-07, 12:20 AM	Yes, Sunlight helps with Vitamin D production (alot, in fact) but it is not the only source of it. A fair number of foods contain it as well. There are a number of minor (and, potentially, a few major) ailments that come from lack of vitamin D, but again, the sun is only one source. It certainly would not be pleasant, but a human could last a good while underground, I would go so far as to say several years. The greater threat is the fact that they are being forced to stay underground by some folks that are probably not looking out for the human's best interest. Now magic is a wonderful thing. You could assume that magical healing could also affect things like vitamin deficiencies and such (sounds extremely reasonable to me, considering you can regrow limbs and come back to life with the right spell). Then they would last many many years. With a proper diet and occasional trips to the surface, I think a human could 'stay' underground indefinitely. Keep in mind, there are prisoners in the American prison system that see the sun only 1 hour a day for many years. 2 pennies, Doji
Another Gnome 05-14-07, 03:32 AM	Now magic is a wonderful thing. You could assume that magical healing could also affect things like vitamin deficiencies and such (sounds extremely reasonable to me, considering you can regrow limbs and come back to life with the right spell). Then they would last many many years. Basic curative spells do not help against malnutrition, this is documented in the rules. Even heal can't cure the nonlethal damage from starvation (nor does the spell description have anything to imply that the spell would stop the condition of starvation), so it seems to me the reasonable assumption would be that healing spells don't work as vitamin injections. That said, obviously there are plenty of spells and magic items decidedly meant as a substitute for food. A prime example would be ring of sustenance that is even oblivious to what the wearer normally feeds on; it would sustain a vampire or a treant just the same as a human. Regardless, seeing how people as varied as drow, duergar, and svirfneblin clearly don't suffer from lack of sunlight, you can always just say that the food available in the Underdark is rich in vitamins, and nobody can make a case against that.
Francho1 05-14-07, 04:04 PM	thanks, the ocational trip to the surface, or the high concetration of vit. D in the food of the underdark could keep a surface dweller indefinetly.
Stigger 05-14-07, 04:23 PM	Don't think the human body can actually process vitamin D without sunlight actually... without it, vitamin D can lead to poisoning if I'm not mistaken.
Francho1 05-14-07, 09:45 PM	that is why i never see in any souce book a large population of human, elf or halfling slaves for any of the underdark races. Even if there not mistreated(human held prisoner by deep gnomes) or he will go mad or die because of the lack of sunlight. In this aspect we wanted to give a touch of realisim, and we were asuming that any creature with natural dark vision can process vitamin d withought any need for sunlight.But any of the surface races wont last that much.
GothicDan 05-14-07, 10:48 PM	There's also psychological/neurological issues that come with too little sunlight, of course. I recently suffered from a touch of light depravation side effects, during finals, while I was too busy to get my light bulb replaced and went for about 2 weeks with only minimal light. It was not fun.
Andyr 05-15-07, 06:47 AM	IIRC parts of the underdark glow due to phosphorescent fungi growing on cavern walls--I suppose you could say that the glow is enough not to drive you barmy. Perhaps it could even help with vitamin D. But, yeah, I imagine living down there would have some pretty detrimental effects on a surfacer's health!
Zandilar 05-15-07, 07:17 PM	Heya, There's actually a type of Vitamin D, D3, that comes from certian types of plants and funguses. While Vitamin D2 is definitely better for us (more easily produced), we could, theoretically, be sustained wholely on D3. It could be that the fungi found in the underdark are rich in D3. The other thing to keep in mind is that D2 is produced in the human skin by interaction with certian wavelengths of UV light. Now while the Sun is the most obvious source of this, it might be possible that there's enough exposure to UV light via magical light sources and phospherescant funguses. (I don't really know, as I'm not a scientist/physicist. I'm sure someone'd be able to say if the latter was possible or not. On the former - with magic, anything's possible.)
Karsus the Mad 05-15-07, 07:47 PM	I currently live in Oulu, Finland. I'm used to conditions in Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA. There's a period where there's only about 2-3 hours (if I'm lucky. For some weeks I'm above the Arctic Circle) of sunlight for a few months. Even during those few hours I was indoors working. I litterally went several months without sunlight (I hadn't yet figured out the whole artificial light thingy). I eventually had to take sick leave (in which I spent about 3 hours a day under a sun lamp) due to litterally going psychotic from the lack of sunlight. It's a horrid thing not being in control of ones self. I'm utterly amazed at how important sunlight is. Truly it's one of the things taken for granted. A human of the surface being forced to live in the Underdark...egads...I would imagine it'd be something similar to what I went through. NOT FUN, scary, and being utterly useless.
Zandilar 05-16-07, 01:56 AM	Heya, I currently live in Oulu, Finland. I'm used to conditions in Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA. There's a period where there's only about 2-3 hours (if I'm lucky. For some weeks I'm above the Arctic Circle) of sunlight for a few months. Even during those few hours I was indoors working. I litterally went several months without sunlight (I hadn't yet figured out the whole artificial light thingy). I eventually had to take sick leave (in which I spent about 3 hours a day under a sun lamp) due to litterally going psychotic from the lack of sunlight. It's a horrid thing not being in control of ones self. I'm utterly amazed at how important sunlight is. Truly it's one of the things taken for granted. A human of the surface being forced to live in the Underdark...egads...I would imagine it'd be something similar to what I went through. NOT FUN, scary, and being utterly useless. It sounds like you had a severe case of Seasonal Affective Disorder, which is caused by a biochemical imbalance in the hypothalamus during the winter, when there isn't as much sunlight. It is not caused by a lack of Vitamin D, and the most effective treatment is bright light therapy. It doesn't effect everyone though, and some people experience it more acutely than others. There probably are a proportion of human slaves that go psychotic... But they wouldn't last all that long, and the Disorder appears to be influenced by genetics (ie: the strong survive).
Lord Karsus 05-17-07, 10:48 AM	-Surface Elves would be affected the most by the lack of sunlight, and would eventually wither and die. This is why there are so few Elven slaves down in the Underdark, even though Drow hate them so much.
Agudo Archmage 05-17-07, 01:27 PM	If the human gets taken by a Gnome...YIKES! Then she will be put in the Gnomes rock garden as a cute statue :P Hmm...but realy from what I have read, most common humans..AKA...cooks, farmers and so on Would die off quickly in the slave pits of the Drow As well as any creatures they run into, would just kill them off fast. Buuuut like the others said this is a fantasy place. So any thing goes! :)
Zireael 05-21-07, 07:15 AM	Yeah, the elves are the most affected by the lack of light. But other races are too. I suppose no human or gnome would survive in Underdark for long, being constantly nearly blinded.
The Ubbergeek 05-21-07, 12:21 PM	Gnomes lives underground, not as deep as dwarves though but still, they are used to.
MarkusTay63 05-21-07, 12:50 PM	I have it IMG where repeated exposure to Faezress eventually mutates the humans into something that could more easily survive the Underdark... Murlocks. These are 'first-generation' Grimlocks, and still have eyes (although they have next to no sight, because they never develop lowlight or Darkvision). By the very next generation, they start breeding true as Grimlocks. This is both in keeping with canon material (merely adding to it), and VERY creepy. Think The Hills have Eyes meets FR. ;)
Lord Karsus 05-21-07, 07:07 PM	-Good ol' Morlocks...
Zandilar 05-21-07, 08:30 PM	Heya, I have it IMG where repeated exposure to Faezress eventually mutates the humans into something that could more easily survive the Underdark... Murlocks. These are 'first-generation' Grimlocks, and still have eyes (although they have next to no sight, because they never develop lowlight or Darkvision). By the very next generation, they start breeding true as Grimlocks. This is both in keeping with canon material (merely adding to it), and VERY creepy. ... Murlocks... MURLOC (http://www.wowwiki.com/Murloc)! :blink:
GothicDan 05-21-07, 09:32 PM	Laughs.
Drizztrocks 05-24-07, 04:02 PM	how long would he last, by this i mean if he is been taking prisoner by any of the underdark races. or by default any surface gnome, halfling or elf. Well, first of all, i feel kind of bad for you. You wanted a simple answer, and now people are off talking about vitamin D. In my opinion, it matters what race. Drow might use them as slaves, hook horrors will slice them open and munch on them, deep gnomes will be curious and respectful to this new race, and duergar will probably poke them spit on them and then chop there heads off.
Karsus the Mad 05-24-07, 09:14 PM	Well, first of all, i feel kind of bad for you. You wanted a simple answer, and now people are off talking about vitamin D. It's part of the CoC. One must accept off-topic subjects caused by the topic. If the OP (or anyone) felt the thread was off-topic, they have the right to note such and kindly ask others to keep on topic. Me: The secondary topic is FAR more interesting and enlightening. ;););););) Then again, I'm KtM and I'm a nutcase,
Lord Karsus 05-24-07, 11:31 PM	Well, first of all, i feel kind of bad for you. You wanted a simple answer, and now people are off talking about vitamin D. -When did the OP say he/she wanted a simple answer?
Another Gnome 05-25-07, 01:39 AM	(The simple answer being that humans can survive without sunlight indefinitely, because the rules only keep track of generic food and drink.)
Straploknight 05-25-07, 01:50 AM	Confound you and your simple logic, excruciating detail and complexity are the hallmark of genius I say. One only has to look at your typical old school VCR and realize that the people who designed these lament boxes were intellectual giants among mere men! Off with you betrayer of gnomes!:P
Zandilar 05-25-07, 05:03 AM	Heya, Well, first of all, i feel kind of bad for you. You wanted a simple answer, and now people are off talking about vitamin D. In my opinion, it matters what race. Drow might use them as slaves, hook horrors will slice them open and munch on them, deep gnomes will be curious and respectful to this new race, and duergar will probably poke them spit on them and then chop there heads off. Hmm... I didn't mention Vitamin D in my initial post. In fact, the only thing I did say in it, boiled down to "it depends on who has captured them, and how useful to their masters they are." That was a simple answer.
cbailey 05-31-07, 08:15 PM	I have it IMG where repeated exposure to Faezress eventually mutates the humans into something that could more easily survive the Underdark... Murlocks. These are 'first-generation' Grimlocks, and still have eyes (although they have next to no sight, because they never develop lowlight or Darkvision). By the very next generation, they start breeding true as Grimlocks. This is both in keeping with canon material (merely adding to it), and VERY creepy. Think The Hills have Eyes meets FR. ;) This is the coolest reply in this thread. Awesome idea!