How to create a Neutral or Good Red Dragon [Archive] - Wizards Community

How to create a Neutral or Good Red Dragon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
meto30
10-21-07, 06:42 PM I was thinking. I was in need of non-evil aligned chromatic dragons to propell the plot, and so I tried to create a few dragons. But I could not come up with a logical explanation for how they became good(or neutral) in the first place. The same holds for neutral metallic dragons.

Can anyone inspire me on this subject? I'd be happy to hear any suggestion.
GothicDan
10-21-07, 06:47 PM Eggs orphaned and raised by other dragons is the easiest and least contrived method, I think, since dragons aren't inherently aligned. :)
Suin Bahhar
10-21-07, 06:49 PM BoED has the sanctify the wicked spell. These sanctified creatures get a faint golden glow from their eyes, groom themselves even more and behave goodly. A good faith that uses this spell regularly is the clergy of Lathander.
dragonheart
10-21-07, 07:36 PM Eggs orphaned and raised by other dragons is the easiest and least contrived method, I think, since dragons aren't inherently aligned. :)
another possibility is a good/neutral aligned cleric or mage who expects to live long enough to cover all or most of the growth period of the dragonette. this would generally mean elven, half elven or dwarven cleric, druid, mage or perhaps ranger.
vorpo
10-21-07, 10:06 PM Drop gold dragons into permanent red dye.
18DELTA
10-21-07, 11:30 PM Drop gold dragons into permanent red dye.

:rofl: :bow: :thumbsup:
GothicDan
10-21-07, 11:44 PM Actually, in 2e at least, Crystal Dragons specifically were noted for sometimes taking on White Dragons' eggs and raising them. :)
meto30
10-21-07, 11:46 PM Eggs orphaned and raised by other dragons is the easiest and least contrived method, I think, since dragons aren't inherently aligned.

Thank you Gothic Dan. But I thought dragons have alignments from birth, or at least the Rearing sidebar in page 13 of the Draconomicon seems to point that way.

Hm. There is a silver dragon already in the plot. Maybe I can have her raise a few wyrmlings...

And thank you all for your kind advice, as always.
GothicDan
10-21-07, 11:58 PM I wouldn't really use the Draconomicon when it comes to FR, unless it specifically says otherwise. And in FR specifically we already have a few dragons of various origins who have alignments differing from what they "should" have. :)
meto30
10-22-07, 12:11 AM I wouldn't really use the Draconomicon when it comes to FR, unless it specifically says otherwise. And in FR specifically we already have a few dragons of various origins who have alignments differing from what they "should" have.

I just checked the example dragons section on Dragons of Faerun. Hmpf, I shoulnd't have had this problem if I read this section earlier! Embarrasing :weep: :hides: Oh I think I'm blushing.

Thank you Gothic Dan for your kind advice. I bow to your goodwill :bow:

Now all I have to do is design plot hooks to lead my party to the dragons...
The_Shaman
10-22-07, 08:17 AM But I thought dragons have alignments from birth, or at least the Rearing sidebar in page 13 of the Draconomicon seems to point that way.

Not necessarily, though they may have some tendencies, like Aasimar or Tieflings. Champions of Valor has a N gold dragon, for example a ranking member of the Tall Trees druidic circle, to boot.
Derren S.
10-22-07, 08:24 AM I wouldn't really use the Draconomicon when it comes to FR, unless it specifically says otherwise. And in FR specifically we already have a few dragons of various origins who have alignments differing from what they "should" have. :)

Considering how much stuff out of the Draconomicon appears in the rage novels (which are canon) saying that this book does not apply to the realms seems "unwise".

The "easiest" and cheapest way would be a helm of opposite alignment (in headband form). Subdue a red dragon (most easily done with wyrmlings) and put on and remove the helm on the dragon until the helm looses its magical aura (=dragon failed its save).
And voila, you have a LG red dragon.
Storm_Silverhand
10-22-07, 09:24 AM Heya,

Thank you Gothic Dan. But I thought dragons have alignments from birth, or at least the Rearing sidebar in page 13 of the Draconomicon seems to point that way.

There is no such thing as absolute inherent alignments in Dungeons and Dragons. "Always Alignment" means that the vast majority of the race that alignment (lets say 99% of the race, which leaves 1% to be other alignments).

Besides, there's always room for exceptions. If an Angel can fall to Evil, and a Demon can rise to Good, so can a dragon.
HVulpes
10-22-07, 09:58 AM Then there's Garnet... a red dragon with the body shape of a blue dragon and the spirit of a silver dragon. Modified by the spells of an elven mage's spells. So there you go.
Suin Bahhar
10-22-07, 10:07 AM Such magnificent creatures...
Questing GM
10-22-07, 01:07 PM Is that the dragon that freed the Nefarious Trio ?
meto30
10-22-07, 01:17 PM Thank you all for your kind advice.

I think I'll just go with a 'Red wyrmling raised by a Gold great wyrm and tought by a half-elf paladin' story. Seems easiest.

Such magnificent creatures...
Truly.

The "easiest" and cheapest way would be a helm of opposite alignment (in headband form). Subdue a red dragon (most easily done with wyrmlings) and put on and remove the helm on the dragon until the helm looses its magical aura (=dragon failed its save).
And voila, you have a LG red dragon.
A fine solution, and I thank you. Although I wouldn't aim for that because there just isn't much story to build a plot on.
Puritan13
10-22-07, 02:24 PM Drop gold dragons into permanent red dye.I wonder how many red sharpies it would take to color a great wyrm gold dragon red.
vorpo
10-22-07, 04:41 PM I wonder how many red sharpies it would take to color a great wyrm gold dragon red.

It's a wonderful, err.., magical world. A drop of magical red dye in a lake is enough to do that :angel:
Elven Avenger
10-29-07, 02:03 PM Is that the dragon that freed the Nefarious Trio ?

Yes, there was a "Trigger" in the magic used to create the prison that says "This prison will only be opened when a Red Dragon that knows virtue and benevolence flys above Myth Drannor's sky." Wel.. it's something like that.
Neutronium_Dragon
11-04-07, 09:17 AM I'm pretty sure at least one red dragon was covered in the old articles (some of which were reprinted on the site a few years back) as having (essentially) changed his mind and become neutral after one too many philosophical musings. It's rare, but it can happen.
Charles Phipps
11-04-07, 04:13 PM Lina Inverse.
meto30
11-04-07, 09:10 PM Lina Inverse.

Uh, I am sorry, Charles Phipps, but I cannot understand why you stated the name of the great dragon slayer...

Although I prefer to use the name 'world's most dangerous devourer of food' the dragonslayer nickname seems official. ;)

Ah, how would I love to see Lina and Gouri once again.
Charles Phipps
11-04-07, 10:29 PM Uh, I am sorry, Charles Phipps, but I cannot understand why you stated the name of the great dragon slayer...

Dragon SLAYER, surreeeeee.

She just happens to be a redhead who employs one ridiculously powerful spell that resembles the explosive aftermath of a Red Dragon's attack while simultaneously loving treasure and gold to a ridiculous extent. Plus, she eats like a woman several hundred times her body weight (particularly in meat)

Yes, Gourri is the world's Dumbest Shapechanged Gold Dragon.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
meto30 10-21-07, 06:42 PM	I was thinking. I was in need of non-evil aligned chromatic dragons to propell the plot, and so I tried to create a few dragons. But I could not come up with a logical explanation for how they became good(or neutral) in the first place. The same holds for neutral metallic dragons. Can anyone inspire me on this subject? I'd be happy to hear any suggestion.
GothicDan 10-21-07, 06:47 PM	Eggs orphaned and raised by other dragons is the easiest and least contrived method, I think, since dragons aren't inherently aligned. :)
Suin Bahhar 10-21-07, 06:49 PM	BoED has the sanctify the wicked spell. These sanctified creatures get a faint golden glow from their eyes, groom themselves even more and behave goodly. A good faith that uses this spell regularly is the clergy of Lathander.
dragonheart 10-21-07, 07:36 PM	Eggs orphaned and raised by other dragons is the easiest and least contrived method, I think, since dragons aren't inherently aligned. :) another possibility is a good/neutral aligned cleric or mage who expects to live long enough to cover all or most of the growth period of the dragonette. this would generally mean elven, half elven or dwarven cleric, druid, mage or perhaps ranger.
vorpo 10-21-07, 10:06 PM	Drop gold dragons into permanent red dye.
18DELTA 10-21-07, 11:30 PM	Drop gold dragons into permanent red dye. :rofl: :bow: :thumbsup:
GothicDan 10-21-07, 11:44 PM	Actually, in 2e at least, Crystal Dragons specifically were noted for sometimes taking on White Dragons' eggs and raising them. :)
meto30 10-21-07, 11:46 PM	Eggs orphaned and raised by other dragons is the easiest and least contrived method, I think, since dragons aren't inherently aligned. Thank you Gothic Dan. But I thought dragons have alignments from birth, or at least the Rearing sidebar in page 13 of the Draconomicon seems to point that way. Hm. There is a silver dragon already in the plot. Maybe I can have her raise a few wyrmlings... And thank you all for your kind advice, as always.
GothicDan 10-21-07, 11:58 PM	I wouldn't really use the Draconomicon when it comes to FR, unless it specifically says otherwise. And in FR specifically we already have a few dragons of various origins who have alignments differing from what they "should" have. :)
meto30 10-22-07, 12:11 AM	I wouldn't really use the Draconomicon when it comes to FR, unless it specifically says otherwise. And in FR specifically we already have a few dragons of various origins who have alignments differing from what they "should" have. I just checked the example dragons section on Dragons of Faerun. Hmpf, I shoulnd't have had this problem if I read this section earlier! Embarrasing :weep: :hides: Oh I think I'm blushing. Thank you Gothic Dan for your kind advice. I bow to your goodwill :bow: Now all I have to do is design plot hooks to lead my party to the dragons...
The_Shaman 10-22-07, 08:17 AM	But I thought dragons have alignments from birth, or at least the Rearing sidebar in page 13 of the Draconomicon seems to point that way. Not necessarily, though they may have some tendencies, like Aasimar or Tieflings. Champions of Valor has a N gold dragon, for example a ranking member of the Tall Trees druidic circle, to boot.
Derren S. 10-22-07, 08:24 AM	I wouldn't really use the Draconomicon when it comes to FR, unless it specifically says otherwise. And in FR specifically we already have a few dragons of various origins who have alignments differing from what they "should" have. :) Considering how much stuff out of the Draconomicon appears in the rage novels (which are canon) saying that this book does not apply to the realms seems "unwise". The "easiest" and cheapest way would be a helm of opposite alignment (in headband form). Subdue a red dragon (most easily done with wyrmlings) and put on and remove the helm on the dragon until the helm looses its magical aura (=dragon failed its save). And voila, you have a LG red dragon.
Storm_Silverhand 10-22-07, 09:24 AM	Heya, Thank you Gothic Dan. But I thought dragons have alignments from birth, or at least the Rearing sidebar in page 13 of the Draconomicon seems to point that way. There is no such thing as absolute inherent alignments in Dungeons and Dragons. "Always Alignment" means that the vast majority of the race that alignment (lets say 99% of the race, which leaves 1% to be other alignments). Besides, there's always room for exceptions. If an Angel can fall to Evil, and a Demon can rise to Good, so can a dragon.
HVulpes 10-22-07, 09:58 AM	Then there's Garnet... a red dragon with the body shape of a blue dragon and the spirit of a silver dragon. Modified by the spells of an elven mage's spells. So there you go.
Suin Bahhar 10-22-07, 10:07 AM	Such magnificent creatures...
Questing GM 10-22-07, 01:07 PM	Is that the dragon that freed the Nefarious Trio ?
meto30 10-22-07, 01:17 PM	Thank you all for your kind advice. I think I'll just go with a 'Red wyrmling raised by a Gold great wyrm and tought by a half-elf paladin' story. Seems easiest. Such magnificent creatures... Truly. The "easiest" and cheapest way would be a helm of opposite alignment (in headband form). Subdue a red dragon (most easily done with wyrmlings) and put on and remove the helm on the dragon until the helm looses its magical aura (=dragon failed its save). And voila, you have a LG red dragon. A fine solution, and I thank you. Although I wouldn't aim for that because there just isn't much story to build a plot on.
Puritan13 10-22-07, 02:24 PM	Drop gold dragons into permanent red dye.I wonder how many red sharpies it would take to color a great wyrm gold dragon red.
vorpo 10-22-07, 04:41 PM	I wonder how many red sharpies it would take to color a great wyrm gold dragon red. It's a wonderful, err.., magical world. A drop of magical red dye in a lake is enough to do that :angel:
Elven Avenger 10-29-07, 02:03 PM	Is that the dragon that freed the Nefarious Trio ? Yes, there was a "Trigger" in the magic used to create the prison that says "This prison will only be opened when a Red Dragon that knows virtue and benevolence flys above Myth Drannor's sky." Wel.. it's something like that.
Neutronium_Dragon 11-04-07, 09:17 AM	I'm pretty sure at least one red dragon was covered in the old articles (some of which were reprinted on the site a few years back) as having (essentially) changed his mind and become neutral after one too many philosophical musings. It's rare, but it can happen.
Charles Phipps 11-04-07, 04:13 PM	Lina Inverse.
meto30 11-04-07, 09:10 PM	Lina Inverse. Uh, I am sorry, Charles Phipps, but I cannot understand why you stated the name of the great dragon slayer... Although I prefer to use the name 'world's most dangerous devourer of food' the dragonslayer nickname seems official. ;) Ah, how would I love to see Lina and Gouri once again.
Charles Phipps 11-04-07, 10:29 PM	Uh, I am sorry, Charles Phipps, but I cannot understand why you stated the name of the great dragon slayer... Dragon SLAYER, surreeeeee. She just happens to be a redhead who employs one ridiculously powerful spell that resembles the explosive aftermath of a Red Dragon's attack while simultaneously loving treasure and gold to a ridiculous extent. Plus, she eats like a woman several hundred times her body weight (particularly in meat) Yes, Gourri is the world's Dumbest Shapechanged Gold Dragon.