Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Crust 07-01-07, 10:32 AM	It's not specific in the Player's Guide to Faerun, so I must ask: Could a high-level incantatrix use multiple metamagic feats in the same round when using metamagic spell trigger? For example: Jim, LN human male sorcerer 6/incantatrix 10 recently fashioned a staff of transmutation. Whilst battling a dragon, Jim pointed his new staff at the dragon and unleashed an empowered/maximized/twinned disintegrate (costing 12 charges). Needless to say, there was nothing left but ash. The dragon's consort soon arrived... and was promptly blasted to ashes (costing another 12 charges)... My point is, this sort of thing could get out of hand. It's not clear in the book, so I'd like some input, please.
Dielzen 07-01-07, 09:09 PM	based on my reading of the ability, no "At 5th level, an incantatrix gains the ability to apply a metamagic feat she possesses to the effect of a spell trigger item (generally a wand)." Also, all the examples only point to one being used at a time.
ClobberinTime 07-02-07, 05:33 PM	I agree with poste number 2, while you can apply more than one metamagic effect to spells you cast, the word 'a' in the ability description implies you can only use one of your metamagic feats on it.
Crust 07-03-07, 07:22 PM	Thanks. :)
dragonheart 07-04-07, 08:20 PM	in addition remember that each effectively raise sthe level of the spell being cast - I persoanlly would not allow the PC to turn any spell from the staff into a 10th level + spell with even 1 metamagic feat. SInce they can't use their feats to push the spell beyond 9th livel wihtout having spell slots greater than 9th level (an epic feat) there is no way i would let then do it to a spell from an item - infact in this case I would limit their abilty to use that power to spells where the improved spell level was at or below the maximum level of the spells they can cast. ANythin less is just nerfing the power without reason in my opinion.
Dielzen 07-05-07, 10:34 PM	Unless you similarly nerf Divine Metamagic feat, you're altering the balance between the two by adopting that stance. The spell never becomes any higher in level, you burn charges, just like a DMM cleric burns turn undeads.
dragonheart 07-06-07, 08:37 AM	both strike me as overpowered in that they let you cast spells otherwise uncastable by your character. I can see letting the Divine metamagic stay as one could argue that by tapping the turn undead uses to drive it you are apping directly into your god and they certainly do have the ability to cast higher level spells than you do. As an arcane caster there is no such loophole so I would not allow it. you could use the metamagic on the staff so long ass the final spell level is one you could still cast and not any higher - you could use it even if you have used up your highest level spells however so that the ability does have a significant benefit. so in the example jim - a 16th level caster (Accessing upto 8th level spells) could cast a single polar ray (8L- 16 D6 cold damage * 1.5 vs red dragon- 84 pt5s damage), or an empowered disintegrate (6L +2L -48 D6 damage= 168 pts damage) or a maximized cone of Cold (5L +3L - 15 *6 (D6Max) *1.5 vs red dragon = 135 points damage) all highly effective attacks and could do this even if he had already cast his own 3 8th level spells or had non combat spells known only (granted this is dumber than dirt :D )
Steelwind 07-06-07, 10:55 AM	I would say that the ability works the same as the Metamagic Spell Trigger feat from Complete Mage, which states you may apply any ONE metamagic feat AND if it would make the spell 10th level or higher it cannot be used, however if normally you could only cast say 7th level spells you could still apply it to cast a 9th level equivilent spell.
sleyvas 07-06-07, 11:56 AM	here's a broken idea for you: cast a quickened monster summoning IX from a staff of the magi. It'll cost you 6 total charges (5 if you advance all the way in incantatrix). You get an equivalent 13th lvl spell, and you can renew the energy in the staff with just a 6th lvl spell after the battle. Of course, this is more a failure of the rules of the staff (which granted is an artifact) than the rules of the incantatrix, but you see where this can go. You hurl empowered ice storms for the cost of a 3rd lvl spell (2nd lvl if you advance all the way in incantatrix). Of course, there's similar problems if you don't even enhance the spells (renewing fireball with a magic missile scroll), but I thought it interesting how this could be compounded if unchecked.
dragonheart 07-07-07, 03:06 PM	It is a bit unbalanced but its actually easy enough to fix. first, I still say you should be able to cast a 13th level spell (simply to be able to properly apply the metamagic (no where else are you able to apply your metamagic to cast levels above your normal caster limit so why here?)this means you would need to be nearly 30th level to cast said spell anyway) then to recharge you modify the absorption rules slightly - 0-2 level spells are absorbed but do not raise the number of charges (just as 0 & 1 st level spells do not use charges), 3rd through 6th level spells are absorbed but provide only a single charge - jsut as they use only a single charge, and 7th through 9th level spells provide only 2 charges just as they use only 2 charges. Now to your 6 charges require the casting of either 6 level 3 spells (18 levels for a 13th level spell) or the casting of 3 seventh level spells (21 spell levels for a 13th level spell) or some combination in between all of which should cost more than the spell cast.
Crust 07-07-07, 03:15 PM	I would say that the ability works the same as the Metamagic Spell Trigger feat from Complete Mage, which states you may apply any ONE metamagic feat AND if it would make the spell 10th level or higher it cannot be used, however if normally you could only cast say 7th level spells you could still apply it to cast a 9th level equivilent spell. This is the clarification I was looking for. Thanks. :)