Monk / Sorcerer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Monk / Sorcerer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nivek_kpk
05-09-07, 09:56 AM Greetings Folks,
I've got a player that wants to play a Monk / Sorcerer but I am extremely hesitant at allowing this. Can anyone provide me with a god that would allow this as well as a possible monestary that he could be based from?

(I'm at work, otherwise I'd look everything up)
Tarus
05-09-07, 10:41 AM I believe there are quite a few examples in the forgotten realm book. One that comes to mind is of Shar. Im sorry I can't be of more help but I would allow it. Those two classes go naturally together and can make for a very cool (and balanced) character.

Alternatively, if everyone approves you could always through out the idea of a psion as a multi-class instead of sorcerer. Then, rather then having 'magic' his character would have extreme focus of the body and mind.
Tevin Kevlak
05-09-07, 11:17 AM Well, it doesn't really depend on what his monestary wants or not as Sorcerer is usually an inherent class. That is to say, you can't train to be a sorcerer unless you've got the potential to begin with. If his character had said potential he could very well take sorcerer levels. The problem is that with the multi-classing restrictions of the monk he must first take all of his monk levels before taking any sorcerer levels or all of his sorcerer levels before taking any monk levels.

Now, there are a few (at least 1 that I'm sure of) monestaries, described in the FRCS, that allow a monk to freely multi-class as a Sorcerer. Check those out and if you're supporting the complete series of books there is an Ascetic Mage feat in one of them (complete adventurer maybe?) that gives a number of benefits to this exact class combination. If your player doesn't wish to be of the monestary listed in the FRCS this feat allows free multi-classing between the classes as well.

Now, that said, I don't see any reason to restrict this class combination. Generally the Monk class isn't a very strong class (in the sense of 'breaking the game' or anything) and it only gets weaker with the fewer monk levels you take. If the player has his heart set on this concept maybe have him take a look the Enlightened Fist PrC (Complete Arcane? I don't have my books handy) which basically combines the two into a 10 level PrC or maybe allows him to use the Battle Sorcerer variant class from Unearthed Arcana. The Battle Sorcerer will have a little more survivability with it's higher HD than the d4 sorcerer.
Mad Mage
05-09-07, 12:10 PM Yeah, Shar is a highly prominent - and possibly the only noted - Monk/Sorcerer deity. I just hope you're okay with having Lawful Evil alignment.

If the player has his heart set on this concept maybe have him take a look the Enlightened Fist PrC (Complete Arcane? I don't have my books handy)

Correct, Complete Arcane pg. 34-36.
Lord_Steve
05-09-07, 12:38 PM Well...if you dont want LE you could go with Mystra instead.
Steelwind
05-09-07, 01:24 PM Make him a monk of the old order as IIRC they allow you to freely mutilclass with one other class of the players choosing and there a pretty cool monk order too.

And with that said, the Enlightened Fist is an excellent PrC for this charecter as others have mentioned before me. Also tell him to look at the Arcane Strike feat from Complete Warrior as it would be a nice addition as well, and if hes a multiclass caster then hes also going to need the Practiced Spellcaster feat found in both Complete Arcane and Complete Divine. If I could suggest a build, Monk2/Sorceror4/Enlighted Fist10 isnt bad and has you covered all the way to 16. Anyway enough of my optimizing ways, hope this helps and good luck.
Mad Mage
05-09-07, 05:52 PM Um, Steelwind, I think you're confusing the Old Order with the Order of the Sun Soul. Old Order monks can still freely multiclas as Sorcerers, though.
Tevin Kevlak
05-09-07, 08:21 PM Um, Steelwind, I think you're confusing the Old Order with the Order of the Sun Soul. Old Order monks can still freely multiclas as Sorcerers, though.

I thought Sun Soul monks could only mutli-class as clerics...
Mad Mage
05-09-07, 09:11 PM I thought Sun Soul monks could only mutli-class as clerics...

Incorrect. Unless my edition of the FRCS is misprinted, it says this:

Members of the Sun Soul order can gain levels in one other class and still progress as a amonk as long as their monk level is their highest class level.
Steelwind
05-09-07, 11:04 PM Um, Steelwind, I think you're confusing the Old Order with the Order of the Sun Soul. Old Order monks can still freely multiclas as Sorcerers, though.

Mad Mage, I stand corrected, but I checked out the Old Order in the FRCS and they would work perfectly here as they can freely multiclass as rogues, sorcerors, and shadowdancers. But even that doesnt matter as the Enlighted Fist text says you can freely go back to monk or arcane caster and even interjoin the two as an ability of that PrC.
Mad Mage
05-09-07, 11:35 PM Mad Mage, I stand corrected, but I checked out the Old Order in the FRCS and they would work perfectly here as they can freely multiclass as rogues, sorcerors, and shadowdancers.

I already wrote that mentioning.

Um, Steelwind, I think you're confusing the Old Order with the Order of the Sun Soul. Old Order monks can still freely multiclas as Sorcerers, though.
Steelwind
05-10-07, 04:56 AM Nevertheless, I think the OP, hopefully, found the advice he was looking for. ;)
ltwally
05-13-07, 11:23 AM Those two classes go naturally together and can make for a very cool (and balanced) character.

I ran a 3.0ed monk/sorc about 5 years ago. It sucked. I've pondered it often, ever since. Here are my thoughts on it:

The only way that I can think of to make this combination viable is to place very few levels into sorcerer. The monk side should be the focus, and the sorc levels should be a compliment. Your spell list should be things like mage armor, shield, cat's grace, etc. Forget all about raining down flaming death on foes, like most sorc's do.

I made the mistake of thinking I could level them equally. The end result is 1/2 crappy monk + 1/2 crappy sorc.

If you focus on the sorc side of things, it would be even worse. You would lose those critical high level spells -- always been a couple spell levels behind wizards of the same ECL. And the monk abilities would be largely useless... since sorc's rarely go into melee combat.

There is also the point about ability scores not meshing well.
A monk needs Str, Dex, Con, Wis.
A sorc needs Cha.
That's way too many ability scores that you want to have decent scores in.

So, as an alternative, might I suggest monk/cleric? You can make this one work just about any way that you like, just so long as you jack your Wisdom score up as high as you can.

Just the thoughts of someone that actually ran a half & half monk/sorc for several months...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nivek_kpk 05-09-07, 09:56 AM	Greetings Folks, I've got a player that wants to play a Monk / Sorcerer but I am extremely hesitant at allowing this. Can anyone provide me with a god that would allow this as well as a possible monestary that he could be based from? (I'm at work, otherwise I'd look everything up)
Tarus 05-09-07, 10:41 AM	I believe there are quite a few examples in the forgotten realm book. One that comes to mind is of Shar. Im sorry I can't be of more help but I would allow it. Those two classes go naturally together and can make for a very cool (and balanced) character. Alternatively, if everyone approves you could always through out the idea of a psion as a multi-class instead of sorcerer. Then, rather then having 'magic' his character would have extreme focus of the body and mind.
Tevin Kevlak 05-09-07, 11:17 AM	Well, it doesn't really depend on what his monestary wants or not as Sorcerer is usually an inherent class. That is to say, you can't train to be a sorcerer unless you've got the potential to begin with. If his character had said potential he could very well take sorcerer levels. The problem is that with the multi-classing restrictions of the monk he must first take all of his monk levels before taking any sorcerer levels or all of his sorcerer levels before taking any monk levels. Now, there are a few (at least 1 that I'm sure of) monestaries, described in the FRCS, that allow a monk to freely multi-class as a Sorcerer. Check those out and if you're supporting the complete series of books there is an Ascetic Mage feat in one of them (complete adventurer maybe?) that gives a number of benefits to this exact class combination. If your player doesn't wish to be of the monestary listed in the FRCS this feat allows free multi-classing between the classes as well. Now, that said, I don't see any reason to restrict this class combination. Generally the Monk class isn't a very strong class (in the sense of 'breaking the game' or anything) and it only gets weaker with the fewer monk levels you take. If the player has his heart set on this concept maybe have him take a look the Enlightened Fist PrC (Complete Arcane? I don't have my books handy) which basically combines the two into a 10 level PrC or maybe allows him to use the Battle Sorcerer variant class from Unearthed Arcana. The Battle Sorcerer will have a little more survivability with it's higher HD than the d4 sorcerer.
Mad Mage 05-09-07, 12:10 PM	Yeah, Shar is a highly prominent - and possibly the only noted - Monk/Sorcerer deity. I just hope you're okay with having Lawful Evil alignment. If the player has his heart set on this concept maybe have him take a look the Enlightened Fist PrC (Complete Arcane? I don't have my books handy) Correct, Complete Arcane pg. 34-36.
Lord_Steve 05-09-07, 12:38 PM	Well...if you dont want LE you could go with Mystra instead.
Steelwind 05-09-07, 01:24 PM	Make him a monk of the old order as IIRC they allow you to freely mutilclass with one other class of the players choosing and there a pretty cool monk order too. And with that said, the Enlightened Fist is an excellent PrC for this charecter as others have mentioned before me. Also tell him to look at the Arcane Strike feat from Complete Warrior as it would be a nice addition as well, and if hes a multiclass caster then hes also going to need the Practiced Spellcaster feat found in both Complete Arcane and Complete Divine. If I could suggest a build, Monk2/Sorceror4/Enlighted Fist10 isnt bad and has you covered all the way to 16. Anyway enough of my optimizing ways, hope this helps and good luck.
Mad Mage 05-09-07, 05:52 PM	Um, Steelwind, I think you're confusing the Old Order with the Order of the Sun Soul. Old Order monks can still freely multiclas as Sorcerers, though.
Tevin Kevlak 05-09-07, 08:21 PM	Um, Steelwind, I think you're confusing the Old Order with the Order of the Sun Soul. Old Order monks can still freely multiclas as Sorcerers, though. I thought Sun Soul monks could only mutli-class as clerics...
Mad Mage 05-09-07, 09:11 PM	I thought Sun Soul monks could only mutli-class as clerics... Incorrect. Unless my edition of the FRCS is misprinted, it says this: Members of the Sun Soul order can gain levels in one other class and still progress as a amonk as long as their monk level is their highest class level.
Steelwind 05-09-07, 11:04 PM	Um, Steelwind, I think you're confusing the Old Order with the Order of the Sun Soul. Old Order monks can still freely multiclas as Sorcerers, though. Mad Mage, I stand corrected, but I checked out the Old Order in the FRCS and they would work perfectly here as they can freely multiclass as rogues, sorcerors, and shadowdancers. But even that doesnt matter as the Enlighted Fist text says you can freely go back to monk or arcane caster and even interjoin the two as an ability of that PrC.
Mad Mage 05-09-07, 11:35 PM	Mad Mage, I stand corrected, but I checked out the Old Order in the FRCS and they would work perfectly here as they can freely multiclass as rogues, sorcerors, and shadowdancers. I already wrote that mentioning. Um, Steelwind, I think you're confusing the Old Order with the Order of the Sun Soul. Old Order monks can still freely multiclas as Sorcerers, though.
Steelwind 05-10-07, 04:56 AM	Nevertheless, I think the OP, hopefully, found the advice he was looking for. ;)
ltwally 05-13-07, 11:23 AM	Those two classes go naturally together and can make for a very cool (and balanced) character. I ran a 3.0ed monk/sorc about 5 years ago. It sucked. I've pondered it often, ever since. Here are my thoughts on it: The only way that I can think of to make this combination viable is to place very few levels into sorcerer. The monk side should be the focus, and the sorc levels should be a compliment. Your spell list should be things like mage armor, shield, cat's grace, etc. Forget all about raining down flaming death on foes, like most sorc's do. I made the mistake of thinking I could level them equally. The end result is 1/2 crappy monk + 1/2 crappy sorc. If you focus on the sorc side of things, it would be even worse. You would lose those critical high level spells -- always been a couple spell levels behind wizards of the same ECL. And the monk abilities would be largely useless... since sorc's rarely go into melee combat. There is also the point about ability scores not meshing well. A monk needs Str, Dex, Con, Wis. A sorc needs Cha. That's way too many ability scores that you want to have decent scores in. So, as an alternative, might I suggest monk/cleric? You can make this one work just about any way that you like, just so long as you jack your Wisdom score up as high as you can. Just the thoughts of someone that actually ran a half & half monk/sorc for several months...