Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Raidst 06-04-07, 04:08 PM	I've been scouring the FR source books and I can't seem to find anything other than passing mention about the vremyonni of rashemen. I'm currently playing a rashemi wizard and would love to see a prestige class based on the male wizards of rashemen. They seem to have a means of magically staving off aging and also are focused primarily on item creation and spell development. If you guys could help me find a PrC for these guys, or contribute ideas for one that'd be great!
Fabius Maximus 06-04-07, 05:15 PM	Why? Vremyonni are not supposed to be player characters, and wizards are well able to take all the item creation feats without a PrC.
Lord Karsus 06-04-07, 06:36 PM	-Yeah, the Vremyonni are kind of hidden and locked away...
Karsus the Mad 06-04-07, 06:38 PM	-Yeah, the Vremyonni are kind of hidden and locked away... hehehehe....whipped properly:schemes:
Raidst 06-04-07, 08:24 PM	I don't see how that effects having a PrC for them, there are ALL sorts of background reasons I can think of for having one, the Red Wizards are sort of exclusive too...and there's a PrC for them...
Lord Karsus 06-04-07, 11:08 PM	-Red Wizards are "masters" of trade, establishing Thayan enclaves and embassies all over the world. The Vremyonni, on the other hand, are a secret, cloistered brotherhood.
GothicDan 06-04-07, 11:20 PM	The Vremyonni aren't exclusive. They are literally kept in caves by the Wychlaran.
BadCatMan 06-05-07, 12:06 AM	There's not a lot of prestige in being a Vremyonni.
Lord Karsus 06-05-07, 12:14 AM	There's not a lot of prestige in being a Vremyonni. -Well, there is, but...It's a catch 22.
MaskedOne 06-05-07, 12:57 AM	There's not a lot of prestige in being a Vremyonni. Sure there is, just like the prestige in being a gladiator in the Roman Colloseum. Great honor, itty bitty Bill of Rights running slightly more egalitarian than "I'd like to inform you of your rights, you have none." There's a reason pawns (*couph* up and coming servants and *couph* Chosen of the Lady *couph*) go to Rashemen and I stay away.
Raidst 06-05-07, 11:07 AM	Two Points: 1) There ARE prestige classes for gladiators... It seems that vremyonni don't leave Rashemen under normal circumstances, well under normal circumstances Drow are evil and don't leave the Underdark. Funny, cause I do recall reading a few novels about a not-so-evil Drow who happens to run around ALL over the sword coast. 2)So vremyonni aren't meantto be PCs...Okay, but you can't tell me I can't play one...that's the beauty of the game really...people play solars and good Drow and all sorts of other things you're NOT supposed to play. If you can't be constructive don't post, I was looking for assistance, not dissuasion. Thank you.
The_Shaman 06-05-07, 12:02 PM	I would suggest any class that works for an item maker. You know, adapt something. The effigy maker, the alchemist and artificer from Magic of Faerun, and probably more than a few others... we know that they are masters of making stuff and they don't go out much - unless the body waste REALLY hits the fan. The rest is up to your imagination.
GothicDan 06-05-07, 12:30 PM	2)So vremyonni aren't meantto be PCs...Okay, but you can't tell me I can't play one...that's the beauty of the game really...people play solars and good Drow and all sorts of other things you're NOT supposed to play. If you can't be constructive don't post, I was looking for assistance, not dissuasion. Who told you that you couldn't play one? If WotC started making PrCs for every possible thing in the game, I'd shoot myself. But not before shooting them. Especially if it was for things in the game that weren't supposed to be playable in the first place. Make a Wizard with Metamagic and Item Creation Feats. If for some reason you absolutely need a PrC to represent this cultural anomoly which in no way should have a PrC ("Where's my PrC for killing Cyric?"), then modify the Incantatrix.
Fabius Maximus 06-05-07, 12:32 PM	Make a Wizard with Metamagic and Item Creation Feats. If for some reason you absolutely need a PrC to represent this cultural anomoly which in no way should have a PrC ("Where's my PrC for killing Cyric?"), then modify the Incantatrix.Or just adapt the Renegade Mastermaker from Magic of Eberron .
GothicDan 06-05-07, 12:40 PM	Or smash the two together and take out the non-topical parts (like the Incantatrix's ability to deal with Outsiders). I don't think any PrC could really facilitate the spell-creator archetype in D&D, because it's such a personal, DM-Player process. Thus, I think that something which would reflect this propensity would be metamagic.
Karsus the Mad 06-05-07, 05:09 PM	Epic Arcane Artisan for epic ones. Or, I dunno...Wizard who takes only item creation feats....
Alac Luin 06-05-07, 07:28 PM	Two Points: 1) There ARE prestige classes for gladiators... This is a good thing, there are gladiators in many D&D worlds so there is a WIDE audience for such a PrC. It seems that vremyonni don't leave Rashemen under normal circumstances, well under normal circumstances Drow are evil and don't leave the Underdark. Funny, cause I do recall reading a few novels about a not-so-evil Drow who happens to run around ALL over the sword coast. There are literally tens of thousands of Drow in/on/under Faerun. There is like what 100 vremyonni? 2)So vremyonni aren't meantto be PCs...Okay, but you can't tell me I can't play one. No, but your DM can tell you you can't play one. ..that's the beauty of the game really...people play solars and good Drow and all sorts of other things you're NOT supposed to play. If you can't be constructive don't post, I was looking for assistance, not dissuasion. Since Drow are listed as a player character race in the FRCS, they really are supposed to be played as PCs. Solars are just not "intended" to be played as a PC. But really this doesn't really have anything to do with appropriate PrCs for vremyonni. From what we know, those that actually carry the title vremyonni are high level "battle wizards", in flavor. IMO, not all the male spellcasters that are sequestered in the caves necessarily of this type. I see a variety of PrCs, or types of spellcasters being appropriate for different aspects of the male society there.
Borris 06-05-07, 09:31 PM	I've always thought of the vremyonnis as single-classed wizards. They get free item creation feats, full arcane spell progresion, the lowest hit die avalaible. What else do you want?
MaskedOne 06-05-07, 11:09 PM	Travel rights which I have and hold by the simple expedient of either not discussing them with Wychlaran or offering to permanently turn meddlesome Wychlaran into the 'old ones' (humbug, I predate their culture) that they keep under lock and key. Past my disagreements with certain cultural habits (no complaints of bias, I threaten all annoying power structures equally), I have few problems with a vremyonni prc. I probably wouldn't suggest that WotC bother because there are a host of other things I want more but I have no profound objection to it.
MalariaMoon 06-10-07, 07:48 AM	Isn't there a vremyonni feat in either Races of Faerun or Unapproachable East. A long way short of a prestige class, but a starting point. I'd probably agree that vermyonni don't necessarily need a prestige class, but I think they make an excellent and unique PC. There are some great role playing possibilities, and those Witches are going to be after you from the word go. Now get back in your cave and keep on mixing potions!
GothicDan 06-10-07, 08:27 AM	Another thing is, as has been pointed out, what the Vremyonni do - create magic items and research new magic spells and theory - is largely exactly what the Wizard class is defined for. With their unlimited spellbooks, they can research all the spell they want with the right resources (which the Wychlaran provide them); this is something Sorcerers cannot do. And their Bonus Feats are largely for utilizing Item Creation Feats. Beyond those, there's also a few Feats that help in such endeavors. Metamagic Feats would tie in with the theme of magical experimentation and research. I mean, you could just rename the Wizard class Vremyonni, and there you go.
Zanan 06-10-07, 06:17 PM	Well ... when creating a ... well one of them ... I would not look any further than the Loremaster as presented in the DMG, focussed on item creation.
GothicDan 06-11-07, 07:46 AM	But Loremaster really doesn't fit them, thematically. They're not all about gaining lore of a lot of things, but rather specializing in the experimentation and application of two very specific things. Mechanically, it might work - I'm assuming you mean to just keep taking multiple Item Creation feats every time one gains new lore? - otherwise it doesn't. For instance, I'd see no reason that even most Vremyonni would have Spell Focus (Divination), which I believe is one of the prereqs for this class. If anything, I think they'd have Spell Focus: Transmutation, Abjuration, Conjuration, or Evocation, all of which have been shown via specific spells (Contingency and Mantles for Evocation), theme ('Summoning and changing magical energy,' for Transmutation and Conrjuration) and classes (Incantatrix for Abjuration) to have at least some links with the Vremyonni's arts.
Fabius Maximus 06-11-07, 12:22 PM	It doesn't even work mechanically. A Loremaster can't take a secret twice.
captaincarot 06-11-07, 12:40 PM	there are a couple of small points about a vremyonni. if they spends all their time locked up in a cave how do they manage to get the experience to get higher levels so that they can make magic items. also if a magic item costs xp to make how do they ever manage to get any levels at all? i know it says in the unaproachable east that they are allowed out but only in extreme circumstances whe the whole of rashemen is under threat and the wychlarran can't deal with it them selves.
Andyr 06-11-07, 02:54 PM	I assume they gain power by researching and testing their new spells--perhaps different from the way adventuring PCs gain experience (i.e. no hacking and slashing through creature-infested dungeons), but to me a school of Wizards sitting and learning/practising their Art seems a valid way for them to 'level up'.
Lord Karsus 06-11-07, 05:32 PM	if they spends all their time locked up in a cave how do they manage to get the experience to get higher levels so that they can make magic items. -By learning all sorts of magical lore. Killing things isn't the only way to "go up in levels". also if a magic item costs xp to make how do they ever manage to get any levels at all? -In actuality, one's own lifeforce is being drained. So, Vremyonni, making so many magical items, would be age quicker, would be thinner, weaker, "more elderly" than other Rashemi males of their same age. That's all.
GothicDan 06-11-07, 07:02 PM	The Realms magical societies and cultures were not based on 3E mechanics at all. It's not terribly applicable to try to interpret them through 3E's ideas of how you gain experience points. It's a fact that in the Realms, almost all of the higher level Wizards do not go out 'adventuring' and gaining experience points, because that puts them in personal danger, and Ed has said many times that one of the most common characteristics among archmages is massive paranoia. They work through political strings, allies, contacts, summoned minions, divinations, cloaked projections, etc. And they also engage in extensive magical research, including item creation. In 2E, in the Complete Wizard's Handbook, you actually GAINED experience by magical spell research, item creation, and using spells to AVOID personal danger while still solving problems or attaining goals. I think this was included largely to make archetypal fantasy wizards (the Hermetic medieval 'magus' in his tower - or the isolated Vremyonni of the Realms, or archmages like Larloch) plausible within the ruleset. 3E's method of item creation probably still is in my top 3 things I dislike about the edition. The idea that simply casting the same spells over and over again at a bunch of orcs/gnolls/ogres/what have you, without necessarily applying new techniques, finding new arcane formulae, experimenting, researching, or anything else, can actually somehow deepen your understanding of how the Weave works itself (going up in level, gaining access to higher level spells) is disgusting to me, from a world creation/roleplay point of view.
captaincarot 06-12-07, 02:47 AM	-By learning all sorts of magical lore. Killing things isn't the only way to "go up in levels". not too sure where you go about picking this lore up in a cave. isn't the point of magical lore that it's obscure stuff which is usually found in obscure places like old tombs and the remnants of forgotten civilisations. that's why more advanced mages need to go to have fights with dragons. because their researches have found something interesting in a book which points to something more interesting in a tomb, mages being mages are usually too paranoid to trust other people to fetch it for them so them go get it them selves. i would certainly agree that a mage can learn and advance in a library, but i wouldn't think it to be as fast or as usefull as real world. you only have to look at kids fresh out of college. think they know everything, but we all know the reality.
GothicDan 06-12-07, 02:57 AM	not too sure where you go about picking this lore up in a cave. isn't the point of magical lore that it's obscure stuff which is usually found in obscure places like old tombs and the remnants of forgotten civilisations. that's why more advanced mages need to go to have fights with dragons. because their researches have found something interesting in a book which points to something more interesting in a tomb, mages being mages are usually too paranoid to trust other people to fetch it for them so them go get it them selves. You seem to have a major misunderstanding of what magical research means in the Realms. It's more like a combination of science and art. At lower levels, such 'foot work' is a necessary evil. At higher levels, you have people to do the footwork for you, and alternative methods of acquiring data, whether through expanded resources, allies, or magic you've already researched. This is why archmages have apprentices and why they hire adventurers to recover lost items for them so much. It's the same reasons that college physics professors have students that do research with them. i would certainly agree that a mage can learn and advance in a library, but i wouldn't think it to be as fast or as usefull as real world. you only have to look at kids fresh out of college. think they know everything, but we all know the reality. First of all, I take extreme offense to this, even if it's joking. People who make this comment typically know next to nothing beyond their spheres of personal experience or anecdotal hogwash or whatever the media decides to feed to them most frequently. When you learn how to coincidentally split atoms, resonate molecules apart with lasers, magnetize ferromagets, and build nuclear bombs, without having any academic background or using anything resulting from academic background as sources, then you can claim you know more about 'reality.' than we do. We all know different things. College, however, teaches you a wider variety of things in a shorter period of time than you would normally receive if you did not attend university (or a version of it). Depending on one's actual goals in life, one does not need to learn the same thing as everyone else, and one CANNOT learn the same things as everyone else in the same way. Your definition of 'research' had to have some archmages that wrote those magical books in the first place, for instance. They did it through experimentation and observation, in their towers, on other planes of existence, through crystal balls, crunching arcane formulae in their libraries, referencing Zamagna's Theory of Concordant Aether Oppositions, applying Elminster's Theorem to simplify the bifurcations and bridge the energy well that would occur in your new spell's current manifestation and finally, voila! You've learned something new about magic.
captaincarot 06-12-07, 04:15 AM	This is why archmages have apprentices and why they hire adventurers to recover lost items for them so much. It's the same reasons that college physics professors have students that do research with them. First of all, I take extreme offense to this, even if it's joking. People who make this comment typically know next to nothing beyond their spheres of personal experience or anecdotal hogwash or whatever the media decides to feed to them most frequently. When you learn how to coincidentally split atoms, resonate molecules apart with lasers, magnetize ferromagets, and build nuclear bombs, without having any academic background or using anything resulting from academic background as sources, then you can claim you know more about 'reality.' than we do. We all know different things. College, however, teaches you a wider variety of things in a shorter period of time than you would normally receive if you did not attend university (or a version of it). Depending on one's actual goals in life, one does not need to learn the same thing as everyone else, and one CANNOT learn the same things as everyone else in the same way. having done both (i.e. having passed through the university system gained degree, higher degree and so on), i can comment from experience, it wasn't untill i left academia and entered into the real world that i realise just how little i actually knew. so i comment not through media ingrained prejudice but from actual practical experience of having done both. but then again people within academia do tend to vaunt the status of their ivory towers. i would suggest once you've learned to do all the nuclear things you mention, you go out get an idea and make a business out of it. when your house, marriage, lively hood and that of your employees depends on your decisions then come back and comment. having fought the fiend of the PDE, wrestled with the demon of theoretical ooc neutron cascades. but by far the greatest foes are the archfiends, bank magager, and irrationally varying markets.:D
TomCosta 06-12-07, 02:44 PM	You could make vremyonni artificers or magewrights from the Eberron setting.
GothicDan 06-12-07, 05:59 PM	having done both (i.e. having passed through the university system gained degree, higher degree and so on), i can comment from experience, it wasn't untill i left academia and entered into the real world that i realise just how little i actually knew. so i comment not through media ingrained prejudice but from actual practical experience of having done both. but then again people within academia do tend to vaunt the status of their ivory towers. And I've grown up in both an area and a family that has next to no actual academic experience, so I've experienced both worlds, too. The uneducated people are the ones I most frequently talking about how the people in college "don't know anything about the real world." At college, we're usually too busy actually learning to talk about these people. i would suggest once you've learned to do all the nuclear things you mention, you go out get an idea and make a business out of it. when your house, marriage, lively hood and that of your employees depends on your decisions then come back and comment. having fought the fiend of the PDE, wrestled with the demon of theoretical ooc neutron cascades. but by far the greatest foes are the archfiends, bank magager, and irrationally varying markets. That has nothing to do with improving your actual academic knowledge of a subject. None of that would improve one's study of wizardry. You seem to have entirely missed the actual point I was trying to make. Increasing one's knowledge of arcana has next to nothing to do with the "real world," which is why archmages have locked themselves up in towers for 30 years and become more powerful, and why wizards like Larloch can literally detonate the planet. You may feel otherwise, but if you do, your opinion has no actual basis in the facts of FR's lore.
Zanan 06-12-07, 06:30 PM	But Loremaster really doesn't fit them, thematically. They're not all about gaining lore of a lot of things, but rather specializing in the experimentation and application of two very specific things. Mechanically, it might work - I'm assuming you mean to just keep taking multiple Item Creation feats every time one gains new lore? - otherwise it doesn't. For instance, I'd see no reason that even most Vremyonni would have Spell Focus (Divination), which I believe is one of the prereqs for this class. If anything, I think they'd have Spell Focus: Transmutation, Abjuration, Conjuration, or Evocation, all of which have been shown via specific spells (Contingency and Mantles for Evocation), theme ('Summoning and changing magical energy,' for Transmutation and Conrjuration) and classes (Incantatrix for Abjuration) to have at least some links with the Vremyonni's arts. Loremaster ... SRD Requirements Skills - Knowledge (any two) 10 ranks in each. Feats - Any three metamagic or item creation feats, plus Skill Focus (Knowledge [any individual Knowledge skill]). Spells - Able to cast seven different divination spells, one of which must be 3rd level or higher. Spellbound, p. 71 The rare males who can work magic ... are ... trained by the vremyonni (ancient male wizards, kept alive for eons by longevity magic) to be researchers of new spells and crafters of magic items (usually rings, wands, and whips) for the use of the witches. I'd assume these males are turned into vremyonni too. UE expands only a little on this and the Loremaster's Secrets could very well be more feats or Craft skill buffs. In any case, the increased number of class skills and skill points per level would suit them vremyonni just fine.
GothicDan 06-12-07, 06:45 PM	Okay, Zanan, I concur. It'd work. :)
Lord Karsus 06-12-07, 10:22 PM	-Wow, I just had some major deja vou.
captaincarot 06-13-07, 02:38 AM	You may feel otherwise, but if you do, your opinion has no actual basis in the facts of FR's lore. which is exactly why i come on here, to learn from people who know far more about the realms than me. this is because i realise the limitations of my knowledge and also that books are never going to teach me everything. once the knowledge base on here is exhausted, then i will have to go out and fight a few dragons to see what they have to say on the subject:D
Wizardman 06-13-07, 04:26 AM	You could make vremyonni artificers or magewrights from the Eberron setting. I tend to agree-- and if I were DMing, the vremyonni would be artificers. I would also have them be the only artificers in Faerūn. The vremyonni working the Weave in a way that no other mortals yet know how makes far more sense than their simply being excellent crafters when one considers the degree to which the wychlaran controls them. I don't think that Mystra would approve of their hoarding this knowledge, but the Halruuans are far more systemically guilty of hoarding magic (and they don't have Thay as a neighbour) and she hasn't punished them yet.
GothicDan 06-13-07, 04:09 PM	I'll never feel entirely comfortable with making the Vremyonni Artificers. I'd even rather see a small group of secretive Wizards/Red Wizards/Artificers first.
mauslin 06-22-07, 09:18 PM	Well, I can think of one difference between Vremyonni and a wizard who just selects item feats. Logically, Vremyonni should be able to participate in circle magic.
Karsus the Mad 06-22-07, 09:44 PM	Well, I can think of one difference between Vremyonni and a wizard who just selects item feats. Logically, Vremyonni should be able to participate in circle magic. Why should they be able to? I can't recall any mention of them ever participating...or anything even resembling such (of course my own knowledge of them is limited). Otherwise I'd have to ask "why can't the witches take item creation feats?".
captaincarot 06-24-07, 06:48 AM	Otherwise I'd have to ask "why can't the witches take item creation feats?". they can, but due to cultural taboos they all choose not to.
Karsus the Mad 06-24-07, 11:39 AM	they can, but due to cultural taboos they all choose not to. I know. I brought that up in response to what I quoted. Just because the witches can participate in circle magic doesn't automatically mean the male wizards can. It's culture. Same reason why all the males have oodles of item creation feats and the witches don't. Technically tho', if a witch does take an item creation feat (other than Scribe Scroll), they lose their Hathran PrC features.
captaincarot 06-27-07, 05:05 AM	I know. I brought that up in response to what I quoted. Just because the witches can participate in circle magic doesn't automatically mean the male wizards can. It's culture. Same reason why all the males have oodles of item creation feats and the witches don't. Technically tho', if a witch does take an item creation feat (other than Scribe Scroll), they lose their Hathran PrC features. i tend to think of that as they get thrown out of the club and barred by the other hathrans untill they atone, maybe there is some ritual performed by the others to cut them off from the spirits when they are found out.
Wizardman 06-28-07, 02:32 AM	i tend to think of that as they get thrown out of the club and barred by the other hathrans untill they atone, maybe there is some ritual performed by the others to cut them off from the spirits when they are found out. They have to atone, and swear a special oath to never use their item creation feats. The only items that they can "legally" make are scrolls.
captaincarot 06-28-07, 02:36 AM	i was thinking more the before they attone part where they lose their link ot the spirits till they have atoned. when i mentioned the ritual, it would explain the loss of their link.
sleyvas 06-29-07, 11:14 AM	The Thayan in me says, "Vremyonni? Those are just lies told to the common folk in order to keep their women in power. In truth, they take all males who have any indications of magical power and put them to death. Some, of course, are put through a breeding program first, but it is done in such a way as to be unenjoyable by the poor male." That being said, that old Thayan is incorrect and the Vremyonni do indeed exist. However, I don't think they are uniform enough that it would be worth making a prestige class for them. For instance, beneath the Ring of Gray flames, there is some kind of ancient Raumathari equipment running, and there are beings wandering about who could be described as living spells (they call them spell wards, I believe). I could very much see some vremyonni (who focus on making constructs) being spell sovereigns (prestige class in latest dragon mag) and trying to figure out how to control & create such beings. I could see some other vremyonni taking a prestige class that gives them an ability for making general constructs (I know there's 2 or 3 of these). Another might focus on making potions with the master brewer class. Another might focus on gathering lore by being a loremaster. With all the "spirits" in Rashemen, I wouldn't be surprised to find one taking up the study of incarnum as a sideline and entering the soulcaster prestige class to study the relationship between soulmelds and arcane magic. There may even be some Mystran mystic theurges amongst them who study the art of the archivist, seeking to gather information on monsters to better protect the realm. In the end, I see the vremyonni as a bunch of individualists who are more interested in research and making things than actively patrolling and defending their country. They most likely help out by using their magic to scry on various parts of the realm, and it wouldn't surprise me if they aren't the secret service of their country, whereas the witches are their hands to go out and recover lost lore and bring it back. Phillip aka Sleyvas Phillip aka Sleyvas
AngryMonkey 08-12-07, 01:39 AM	There is an NPC listed in UE who *was* an Old one. He's the inkeeper of the Hathrans town outside the Urlingwood, who accidentially burnt out his spellcasting powers researching an anti-mage spell for use against the Thayans. I've forgotton his name, but he is listed as being a Wiz 15 or 16 in the brief description. I guess WotC intended them to be straight wizards as well. That said, if there are Prestige Classes for Spellguards of Silverymoon and Griffon Riders of Aglarond (two military units attached to the defense of a particular city - not conductive to making a conventional adventuring group) I can't see any reason why there couldn't be one for the Old Ones as well.
msatran 08-12-07, 04:02 AM	Well, there's nothing that says they can't take any PRC they want. They're WIZARDS. They already have a million choices. Quite frankly, I run a campaign in Rashemen where the villain is a Rogue Vremyonni who blames the Rashemi political system for costing him his family, his life, and his emotions. His goal is to destabilize Rashemen and make them come within a hair's breadth of destruction in order to realize the foolishness of their political system. He doesn't care if he dies. At all. This makes him a VERY dangerous man.
Raidst 08-12-07, 07:33 AM	Well, I'm glad it took two months of Flames before anyone even recognized the validity of my question, but thanks guys. I got some help from a guy on a NWN2 forum. Pretty much an archmage blend, but it worked.
Koji 08-13-07, 08:06 AM	To try and say that an OOC concept like a prestige class has no basis in FR lore is kind of dumb, since FR lore is IC. That's like saying hit points have no basis in FR lore, and thus should be abolished.
Alac Luin 08-18-07, 03:27 PM	Well, I'm glad it took two months of Flames before anyone even recognized the validity of my question, but thanks guys. I got some help from a guy on a NWN2 forum. Pretty much an archmage blend, but it worked. With all due respect, the topic was dead for almost a month and a half out of those "two-months of flames" (Hardly "flaming"). Many did try to help you in offering suggestions on what we thought was appropriate, it's just many do not think that the Vremyonni needs to be so narrow minded that needs to be summed up in a singular PrC. If what you were really asking for is for someone else to write up a PrC for you, you should have stated that in the OP. Many here believe that only you being the DM for your game know what is appropriate in your world/vision, so suggestions were givin to you to guide your creative talents to create what would work for you.