Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cryto 05-03-07, 03:34 PM	What do you think of pact magic in Faerun? What races are most suitable by description for being binders? What kind of religion faerunian binders have due to fact that faerun is world where religion is important? Ty for answers in advance
Lord Karsus 05-03-07, 06:49 PM	-Don't know what Pact Magic is, but the first thing that comes to mind is: Nar Demonbinder.
Borris 05-03-07, 07:06 PM	As with all forms of obscure magic without ties to a race or culture, humans would probably be the quickest to adopt it. With their shorter lifespans, humans tend to adapt more easily than other races. Also, in many regions, they do not suffer from the cultural restrictions of others. Besides, dealing with creatures that are beyond the reach of gods is frownwed upon by almost every church and deity, at least according to the Tome of Magic. Without a racial deity, humans might feel they don't owe them anything and start using pact magic no matter what the members of the Faerūnian pantheon think. Another interesting option would be the Kir-lanan. They can't use divine magic and, while they can use arcane magic, they might resent having to use Mytra or Shar's weaves. Pact magic gives them a third option that has the advantage of owing nothing to any god. What might even be better is that binders are actually using a few dead gods as little more than tools. I'm sure a Kir-lanan would enjoy the situation.
lavekkia 05-03-07, 07:18 PM	First take a look here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=640620 It's a good starting point. As for who... well Narfell is a good candidate as our good LK told you.
Fabius Maximus 05-04-07, 07:08 AM	-Don't know what Pact Magic is, but the first thing that comes to mind is: Nar Demonbinder. Only that the Nar Demonbinder is a typical 3.0 caster PrC with it's own spell progression. Meaning it's quite useless. Pact Magic is the only useable form of magic from Tome of Magic. (Shadow magic is meh, and Truenaming was messed up.) You contact spirits (almost dead gods, ancient heroes, and the like) through a ritual and gain several benefits. Interestingly though, the Fiendbinder PrC from that book is better than the Nar Demonbinder while filling the same niche.
EytanBernstein 05-04-07, 01:56 PM	I will be covering the ToM classes in my Class Chronicles column, though I don't think this entry will be online until sometime in late summer or early fall.
brisingre 05-31-07, 08:28 PM	drow might work, as would just about any chromatic/evil aligned half-dragon, also you may want to consider the fact that almost all the sample pact magic stuff in tome of magic is a dwarf so if you want to go off that, dwarves seem plausible, also, tieflings would go well with a binder, and spellscales (races of the dragon chapter 2) would work due to their sheer curiosity and no actual culture restrictions.
brisingre 05-31-07, 08:32 PM	oh, and as for what i think on pact magic in fearun......difficult but possible. just make sure no one the run into recognizes the type of magic their performing.
MerrikCale 06-03-07, 11:17 PM	I will be covering the ToM classes in my Class Chronicles column, though I don't think this entry will be online until sometime in late summer or early fall. Then you must be covering just about every non-core class
EytanBernstein 06-04-07, 05:48 AM	Indeed. Just about every one published in a non-setting specific book (so I don't think I'll be going ones from Oriental Adventures, Dragonlance, or Eberron [artificer]). If it appeared in a Complete book, Heroes book, Miniatures handbook, Dragon Magic, PHB2, Environment book, or other general book, it's quite likely to be covered.
MerrikCale 06-04-07, 06:30 PM	Indeed. Just about every one published in a non-setting specific book (so I don't think I'll be going ones from Oriental Adventures, Dragonlance, or Eberron [artificer]). If it appeared in a Complete book, Heroes book, Miniatures handbook, Dragon Magic, PHB2, Environment book, or other general book, it's quite likely to be covered. terrific. I look forward to the Tome of Battle workup
brisingre 06-04-07, 09:10 PM	tome of battle is...ok, i prefer tome of magic.
brisingre 06-04-07, 09:11 PM	but, thats coming from the guy which about 98% of his characters have been spellcasters
MerrikCale 06-04-07, 09:19 PM	but, thats coming from the guy which about 98% of his characters have been spellcasters is that the only reason? whats so great about Tome of Magic?
brisingre 06-04-07, 09:36 PM	the new types of magic in it are easy to get powerful things with. such as the shadowcaster, as a third level shadowcaster you can use a mystery(their equivilent of a spell) that deals 5d6 damage has a short range n lasts 1 min/level
Imruphel 06-09-07, 11:16 AM	Going back on-topic, many of the dead gods would make excellent vestiges if you're prepared to do some work crafting the abilities that they grant. I could imagine half-elven binders tied to the lost gods of the Yuir but generally I think humans would form the majority of binders, especially in the East where there might be binder cultists of the fallen Untheric powers such as Nergal. Also I think the Uthgardt would have binders linked to the spirits of Uthgar notwithstanding that Uthgar is a power rather than a vestige (I would just make an exception for the various spirits in his case). As for their religion, I think binders would generally be anti-religion but there might be a sect of Oghma (who I think has "The Binder" as one of his titles) that is devoted to collecting the lost knowledge that the vestiges represent. Perhaps there might also be a binder cult dedicated to Anubis (and using the Servant of the Fallen feat) in his capacity as the guardian of dead gods. I would love to incorporate FR-flavoured binders in my own games but obviously need to either do the work or steal the work of someone else!
GothicDan 06-09-07, 12:34 PM	I don't think Anubis has ever had a presence in Realmspace, nor has he even been mentioned in the myths or divine relations of the Mulhorandi Pantheon. He's very much real, of course, and likes to hang out on the Astral Plane, protecting god-corpses...
Yanagita Kunio 06-09-07, 02:49 PM	I could see binders in FR being something like historical goetics/theurgists--people who may (or may not) participate in normal/orthodox religious practices, but who also seek to parley their esoteric learning into "borrowing power" from beings that aren't quite deific, but nonetheless numinous. The question becomes how vestiges fit with the other aspects of Faerun metaphysics, since the mechanics of the Fugue Plane and the afterlife sort of disrupt (one) premised origin of many vestiges--powerful mortal souls that become "lost" or displaced cosmologically. Perhaps a vestige is like an echo or impression that persists (in the Weave?) after the actual entity has moved on, whether to oblivion or an appropriate afterlife. And I agree that many of the dead gods would make excellent vestiges. [I'd love to see a Borem vestige.] However, the prospect of vestiges based on heroes, villains, and/or other figures whose power (and nature of demise) positions them as potential vestiges. For example, the Khov'Anilessa....
MerrikCale 06-09-07, 11:38 PM	Indeed. Just about every one published in a non-setting specific book (so I don't think I'll be going ones from Oriental Adventures, Dragonlance, or Eberron [artificer]). If it appeared in a Complete book, Heroes book, Miniatures handbook, Dragon Magic, PHB2, Environment book, or other general book, it's quite likely to be covered. DL and Eberron I get, but OA does have its early link to Kara-Tor.
EytanBernstein 06-10-07, 09:54 AM	DL and Eberron I get, but OA does have its early link to Kara-Tor. For reasons of space and the fact that we aren't doing much with Kara Tur, I don't think OA will be covered.
MerrikCale 06-10-07, 01:11 PM	For reasons of space and the fact that we aren't doing much with Kara Tur, I don't think OA will be covered. Fair enough. Its kind of a dead continent at this point
lavekkia 06-12-07, 02:53 PM	Fair enough. Its kind of a dead continent at this point Aside from some updates in Grand History Of The Realms yes.
MarkusTay63 06-12-07, 04:52 PM	Fair enough. Its kind of a dead continent at this pointNot dead... just Forgotten. Thats why it fits so well in the Forgotten Realms. Also, the region is mentioned in several 3e sourcebooks, as well as novels, so it most certainly has not 'gone away'. The re-works of the OA classes is being worked on by the fan community and should all be available in a few months in the form of a Netbook.
EytanBernstein 06-12-07, 06:59 PM	There are a few references here and there to Kara Tur (and will be more with the samurai, wu jen, and shugenja), but not enough to cover OA.
MerrikCale 06-12-07, 09:52 PM	Not dead... just Forgotten. Thats why it fits so well in the Forgotten Realms. Also, the region is mentioned in several 3e sourcebooks, as well as novels, so it most certainly has not 'gone away'. The re-works of the OA classes is being worked on by the fan community and should all be available in a few months in the form of a Netbook. Its been forgotten by WoTC
brisingre 06-14-07, 07:10 AM	to a degree, yes. but their still printing out the books so it hasn't been completely forgotten.
MerrikCale 06-14-07, 08:54 PM	to a degree, yes. but their still printing out the books so it hasn't been completely forgotten. what books?
brisingre 06-15-07, 04:16 PM	the campaign setting, dragons of fearun, ect ect, their still printing them, their just not making any new ones.
MerrikCale 06-15-07, 09:12 PM	the campaign setting, dragons of fearun, ect ect, their still printing them, their just not making any new ones. I was talking about Kara-Tur specifically not FR in general
brisingre 06-16-07, 11:55 AM	ah, well in that case i completely agree w/ you.
The_Wrath_of_Talos 06-18-07, 04:30 PM	What do you think of pact magic in Faerun? What races are most suitable by description for being binders? What kind of religion faerunian binders have due to fact that faerun is world where religion is important? Ty for answers in advance I personally think that the binder is a great class, and the anima mage prestige class allows a charector quite a bit of power. That may even rival the archmage prestige class in power. As for a specific race being a binder, any race could be. Every vestige is different allowing a variety options for any charector. Binding is a form of religion, a charector uses a spirit which gives it power. Though these spirits are just the remenance of once powerful entities they still hold quite a bit of power. As for binder life in faerun, I'd put them in the same field as warlocks. Loners, misunderstood, and not trusted or excepted in most civilizations. If your a binder expect to be an outcast unless your in a metropolis area, even then dont expect much of a welcome.
AllisterH 06-19-07, 04:43 PM	Er, but has the OA book introduced any new base classes to Kara-tur that weren't there before?
Eled_the_Worm_Tamer 06-19-07, 05:19 PM	off the top of my head there are a few vestges that seem to be homsges to FR: Amon, the void before the alter. Once a god of sun and justace now lost to wrath. Amuanitor? Karsus, a potent mortal spell caster who tried to steal the power of a god... hmmm wasn't possibly Mystrl was it? So far Ive found no other ties to fr among Amon's other rivals though.
TomCosta 06-20-07, 05:45 PM	I believe Amon has ties to Egyptian mythology and is not Realms-related, though he could be.
EytanBernstein 06-20-07, 06:43 PM	I believe Amon has ties to Egyptian mythology and is not Realms-related, though he could be. I have some interesting plans for Amon. The ToM entry should be up in the next month or so, after the psionics entries are finished.
sleyvas 06-28-07, 02:08 PM	I've been thinking about this lately myself and was talking about it on Candlekeep. Where do binders fit in with history and present? My first thought is that the Imaskari Empire likely held a goodly number of them, but many of those vestiges may have faded away. Perhaps some of manifestations of the Untheric and Mulhorandi deities that didn't survive the conflict with the Imaskari were later found to be bindable by Thayd and his Theurgist Adepts. Naturally, this binding of the spirits of dead gods wouldn't have sat very well with the God-Kings, especially with them in the precarious position of being possible targets by the Theurgists in an attempt to create more vestiges. Thus, they turned on Thayd. Then the Orcgate Wars occurred. Mulhorand brought in mercenaries for the Orcgate Wars. After the war, these mercenaries would return home to form the empires of Narfell and Raumathar. I can see this being a starting point for Narfell taking up binding magic, and perhaps they learned to be anima mages (wizard-binders).... or perhaps Thayd was an anima mage. Because of its lack of structured learning, I can see binders being looked down on in Thay (unless they are anima mages). I can see these individuals occurring in Calimshan and Dambrath on the surface quite readily, as well as amongst the yuan-ti. It would also be a very welcomed class in the segmented drow city beneath Thay. I could also see Derro Savants favoring this class as well, and it might explain some of their odd behavior.