Question about Shades [Archive] - Wizards Community

Question about Shades [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
johnkretzer
01-18-08, 01:58 PM I have asked this question on 'Ask the Designers' thread but R.Bakers just took a vaction from that thread to do actualy work...so I'll ask it here:

Is there a way do un-shade a Shade? Meaning to remove the Shade type from a Shade and turnity back into a human(or whatever the base race might have been?

If there isn't a way(yet in the books) what do people think of the possiblity of it happening?
Lord Karsus
01-19-08, 02:12 AM -I don't believe so. The process of becoming a Shade entails giving up a literal portion of your soul, and replacing it with Shadowstuff. Where does the portion of soul that is given up go?

-One solution would be including the idea behind the adventure Bastion of Broken Souls, which I like. Basically, there exists a big 'pool' of soulstuff (Incarnum?). When a child is born, his/her soul comes from this big pool of soulstuff. Including this, the portion of one's soul that he gives up can theoretically return here.

-Another solution that conforms more to the established Realms is that it either goes to a specific deity's realm (Lathander, perhaps?), or it merges with the Positive Energy Plane.
johnkretzer
01-19-08, 03:41 AM -I don't believe so. The process of becoming a Shade entails giving up a literal portion of your soul, and replacing it with Shadowstuff. Where does the portion of soul that is given up go?

-One solution would be including the idea behind the adventure Bastion of Broken Souls, which I like. Basically, there exists a big 'pool' of soulstuff (Incarnum?). When a child is born, his/her soul comes from this big pool of soulstuff. Including this, the portion of one's soul that he gives up can theoretically return here.

-Another solution that conforms more to the established Realms is that it either goes to a specific deity's realm (Lathander, perhaps?), or it merges with the Positive Energy Plane.

mmm....so it could be a spell that restores the soul...mmm
By the way I hate the portion of a soul...how much of a portion is a portion...and how much do you need etc. It just raises to many questions...
Lord Karsus
01-19-08, 03:55 AM -Half. 50% is a good ratio. It allows you to keep your Human nature, but at the same time, not.

-As for there being a spell...Perhaps. Personally, I'd make it a pretty powerful spell, however (ie, something akin to Wish, Miracle, etc.). Since turning into a Shade is a ritual, perhaps reclaiming one's soul can also be a ritual, on the Positive Energy Plane, or having something to do with Incarnum (I just got the book, and while I haven't given it in-depth reading, it all seems very interesting!).
johnkretzer
01-19-08, 04:36 AM -Half. 50% is a good ratio. It allows you to keep your Human nature, but at the same time, not.

-As for there being a spell...Perhaps. Personally, I'd make it a pretty powerful spell, however (ie, something akin to Wish, Miracle, etc.). Since turning into a Shade is a ritual, perhaps reclaiming one's soul can also be a ritual, on the Positive Energy Plane, or having something to do with Incarnum (I just got the book, and while I haven't given it in-depth reading, it all seems very interesting!).

So what would happen if you just took out the shadow stuff without restoring the soul? The character I have who would use it doesn't particulary cares if the shade live or die...as a matter of fact since they can just go get Shaded again I think it is better off they don't live though the process.

I personaly like Incarnum (though the races were unneccessary) but unfortunaly I am the only one I know....so I have never got the chance to play with it.
Lord Karsus
01-19-08, 04:43 AM So what would happen if you just took out the shadow stuff without restoring the soul? The character I have who would use it doesn't particulary cares if the shade live or die...as a matter of fact since they can just go get Shaded again I think it is better off they don't live though the process.

-I wouldn't allow someone to have the Shadowstuff removed without having Soulstuff returned. That would give them half a soul. That sounds like an interesting basis for some kind of Vampire-like creature, however. A pseudovampire-like thing that drains victim's soul, looking to restore it's own.
johnkretzer
01-19-08, 05:04 AM -I wouldn't allow someone to have the Shadowstuff removed without having Soulstuff returned. That would give them half a soul. That sounds like an interesting basis for some kind of Vampire-like creature, however. A pseudovampire-like thing that drains victim's soul, looking to restore it's own.

Mmmm... so would you say it is possible to use a arcane spell to seriously hurt a Shade by attacking the shadowstuff? What school would you say it was? I mean it should be possible considering there is Junglerazor.

I got to sell msatran on it for my character to research.

(By the way I don't if you meant it this way but the terms 'shadowstuff and soulstuff just strike me as very funny...)
Lord Karsus
01-19-08, 07:11 AM Mmmm... so would you say it is possible to use a arcane spell to seriously hurt a Shade by attacking the shadowstuff? What school would you say it was? I mean it should be possible considering there is Junglerazor.

-If you are going to develop a spell by attacking the Shadowstuff in their soul, I'd go with Necromancy. I mean, the Shadowstuff is tecnically part of their soul, and Necomancy would be the school that attacks one's soul. If you really want to stretch it, perhaps it can even be something from the Illusion (Shadow) school, since, I mean, Shadowstuff is pure shadow, after all. I don't like that one too much, though.

-What is 'Junglerazor', by the way?

(By the way I don't if you meant it this way but the terms 'shadowstuff and soulstuff just strike me as very funny...)

-Well, shadowstuff is the 'proper' term for that. It specifically says that Shades trade portions of their souls for 'Shadowstuff'. As for Soulstuff...Well, what do you call what a soul is made of!? :cool:
Suin Bahhar
01-19-08, 11:28 AM -If you are going to develop a spell by attacking the Shadowstuff in their soul, I'd go with Necromancy. I mean, the Shadowstuff is tecnically part of their soul, and Necomancy would be the school that attacks one's soul. If you really want to stretch it, perhaps it can even be something from the Illusion (Shadow) school, since, I mean, Shadowstuff is pure shadow, after all. I don't like that one too much, though.Agreed. Necromancy from level 4 or 5 and upwards deals with souls directly (enervation). Shadowstuff is alike to etherealness and I believe transmutation spells allow one to turn something ethereal (ethereal jaunt). So turning something into shadowstuff is a transmutation effect. Actually travelling through or summonning shadowstuff is an illusion or conjuration effect(shadow conjuration and shadow walk). Direct manipulation of shadowstuff could be evocation (veil of shadows). So If you would want to turn a shade back into a normal human a (divine) necromancy spell is needed for the creation/restoration of the human half of the soul; and a illusion, transmutation or evocation spell is needed to remove, alter or destroy the shadowstuff soul.

-Well, shadowstuff is the 'proper' term for that. It specifically says that Shades trade portions of their souls for 'Shadowstuff'. As for Soulstuff...Well, what do you call what a soul is made of!? :cool:A part of incarnum thats turned into his personal essentia.
Lord Karsus
01-19-08, 11:39 AM A part of incarnum thats turned into his personal essentia.

-I was thinking that, as I referenced it in my first post, but I wasn't too sure. I just got the book, but really didn't read it. You know, you actually are the main reason I got it! I saw it on sale at the comic store I go to, and I was like, "All the Incarnum stuff referenced in the Totem Magic write-up sounds pretty interesting..."
Suin Bahhar
01-19-08, 12:07 PM I'm honored. Glad I could show you to new good metaphysical lore. Incarnum has an attractive mechanical structure too.

Anyways. I strongly have the feeling that attacking Shades at their essence should require some lightbased energies or divine positive energies like when turning undead. Aumanator has made and granted some vicious anti-shadow spells. Check out the spells Sunburst and Morningtide (I think).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
johnkretzer 01-18-08, 01:58 PM	I have asked this question on 'Ask the Designers' thread but R.Bakers just took a vaction from that thread to do actualy work...so I'll ask it here: Is there a way do un-shade a Shade? Meaning to remove the Shade type from a Shade and turnity back into a human(or whatever the base race might have been? If there isn't a way(yet in the books) what do people think of the possiblity of it happening?
Lord Karsus 01-19-08, 02:12 AM	-I don't believe so. The process of becoming a Shade entails giving up a literal portion of your soul, and replacing it with Shadowstuff. Where does the portion of soul that is given up go? -One solution would be including the idea behind the adventure Bastion of Broken Souls, which I like. Basically, there exists a big 'pool' of soulstuff (Incarnum?). When a child is born, his/her soul comes from this big pool of soulstuff. Including this, the portion of one's soul that he gives up can theoretically return here. -Another solution that conforms more to the established Realms is that it either goes to a specific deity's realm (Lathander, perhaps?), or it merges with the Positive Energy Plane.
johnkretzer 01-19-08, 03:41 AM	-I don't believe so. The process of becoming a Shade entails giving up a literal portion of your soul, and replacing it with Shadowstuff. Where does the portion of soul that is given up go? -One solution would be including the idea behind the adventure Bastion of Broken Souls, which I like. Basically, there exists a big 'pool' of soulstuff (Incarnum?). When a child is born, his/her soul comes from this big pool of soulstuff. Including this, the portion of one's soul that he gives up can theoretically return here. -Another solution that conforms more to the established Realms is that it either goes to a specific deity's realm (Lathander, perhaps?), or it merges with the Positive Energy Plane. mmm....so it could be a spell that restores the soul...mmm By the way I hate the portion of a soul...how much of a portion is a portion...and how much do you need etc. It just raises to many questions...
Lord Karsus 01-19-08, 03:55 AM	-Half. 50% is a good ratio. It allows you to keep your Human nature, but at the same time, not. -As for there being a spell...Perhaps. Personally, I'd make it a pretty powerful spell, however (ie, something akin to Wish, Miracle, etc.). Since turning into a Shade is a ritual, perhaps reclaiming one's soul can also be a ritual, on the Positive Energy Plane, or having something to do with Incarnum (I just got the book, and while I haven't given it in-depth reading, it all seems very interesting!).
johnkretzer 01-19-08, 04:36 AM	-Half. 50% is a good ratio. It allows you to keep your Human nature, but at the same time, not. -As for there being a spell...Perhaps. Personally, I'd make it a pretty powerful spell, however (ie, something akin to Wish, Miracle, etc.). Since turning into a Shade is a ritual, perhaps reclaiming one's soul can also be a ritual, on the Positive Energy Plane, or having something to do with Incarnum (I just got the book, and while I haven't given it in-depth reading, it all seems very interesting!). So what would happen if you just took out the shadow stuff without restoring the soul? The character I have who would use it doesn't particulary cares if the shade live or die...as a matter of fact since they can just go get Shaded again I think it is better off they don't live though the process. I personaly like Incarnum (though the races were unneccessary) but unfortunaly I am the only one I know....so I have never got the chance to play with it.
Lord Karsus 01-19-08, 04:43 AM	So what would happen if you just took out the shadow stuff without restoring the soul? The character I have who would use it doesn't particulary cares if the shade live or die...as a matter of fact since they can just go get Shaded again I think it is better off they don't live though the process. -I wouldn't allow someone to have the Shadowstuff removed without having Soulstuff returned. That would give them half a soul. That sounds like an interesting basis for some kind of Vampire-like creature, however. A pseudovampire-like thing that drains victim's soul, looking to restore it's own.
johnkretzer 01-19-08, 05:04 AM	-I wouldn't allow someone to have the Shadowstuff removed without having Soulstuff returned. That would give them half a soul. That sounds like an interesting basis for some kind of Vampire-like creature, however. A pseudovampire-like thing that drains victim's soul, looking to restore it's own. Mmmm... so would you say it is possible to use a arcane spell to seriously hurt a Shade by attacking the shadowstuff? What school would you say it was? I mean it should be possible considering there is Junglerazor. I got to sell msatran on it for my character to research. (By the way I don't if you meant it this way but the terms 'shadowstuff and soulstuff just strike me as very funny...)
Lord Karsus 01-19-08, 07:11 AM	Mmmm... so would you say it is possible to use a arcane spell to seriously hurt a Shade by attacking the shadowstuff? What school would you say it was? I mean it should be possible considering there is Junglerazor. -If you are going to develop a spell by attacking the Shadowstuff in their soul, I'd go with Necromancy. I mean, the Shadowstuff is tecnically part of their soul, and Necomancy would be the school that attacks one's soul. If you really want to stretch it, perhaps it can even be something from the Illusion (Shadow) school, since, I mean, Shadowstuff is pure shadow, after all. I don't like that one too much, though. -What is 'Junglerazor', by the way? (By the way I don't if you meant it this way but the terms 'shadowstuff and soulstuff just strike me as very funny...) -Well, shadowstuff is the 'proper' term for that. It specifically says that Shades trade portions of their souls for 'Shadowstuff'. As for Soulstuff...Well, what do you call what a soul is made of!? :cool:
Suin Bahhar 01-19-08, 11:28 AM	-If you are going to develop a spell by attacking the Shadowstuff in their soul, I'd go with Necromancy. I mean, the Shadowstuff is tecnically part of their soul, and Necomancy would be the school that attacks one's soul. If you really want to stretch it, perhaps it can even be something from the Illusion (Shadow) school, since, I mean, Shadowstuff is pure shadow, after all. I don't like that one too much, though.Agreed. Necromancy from level 4 or 5 and upwards deals with souls directly (enervation). Shadowstuff is alike to etherealness and I believe transmutation spells allow one to turn something ethereal (ethereal jaunt). So turning something into shadowstuff is a transmutation effect. Actually travelling through or summonning shadowstuff is an illusion or conjuration effect(shadow conjuration and shadow walk). Direct manipulation of shadowstuff could be evocation (veil of shadows). So If you would want to turn a shade back into a normal human a (divine) necromancy spell is needed for the creation/restoration of the human half of the soul; and a illusion, transmutation or evocation spell is needed to remove, alter or destroy the shadowstuff soul. -Well, shadowstuff is the 'proper' term for that. It specifically says that Shades trade portions of their souls for 'Shadowstuff'. As for Soulstuff...Well, what do you call what a soul is made of!? :cool:A part of incarnum thats turned into his personal essentia.
Lord Karsus 01-19-08, 11:39 AM	A part of incarnum thats turned into his personal essentia. -I was thinking that, as I referenced it in my first post, but I wasn't too sure. I just got the book, but really didn't read it. You know, you actually are the main reason I got it! I saw it on sale at the comic store I go to, and I was like, "All the Incarnum stuff referenced in the Totem Magic write-up sounds pretty interesting..."
Suin Bahhar 01-19-08, 12:07 PM	I'm honored. Glad I could show you to new good metaphysical lore. Incarnum has an attractive mechanical structure too. Anyways. I strongly have the feeling that attacking Shades at their essence should require some lightbased energies or divine positive energies like when turning undead. Aumanator has made and granted some vicious anti-shadow spells. Check out the spells Sunburst and Morningtide (I think).