Question about the demi-human races, crime, and punishment. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Question about the demi-human races, crime, and punishment. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mad Mage
02-27-07, 01:07 AM I was curious how each of the following races would deal with, say, a most grevious traitor, one that betrayed the defense secrets or some-such of their community for profit.

The races I'm wondering about are these:
- Shield Dwarves. More than likely exile/banishment.
- Gold Dwarves. Likely as above.
- Moon Elves. Don't know, but I'd say banishment.
- Sun Elves. Unknown, but I'd say above, but some more thoughts toward imprisonment.
- Rock Gnomes. Probably exile, maybe imprisonment.
- Deep Gnomes. I'd say exile.
- Mountain Orcs. Likely kill the traitor outright.

I would wonder, if - for instance - if a (Lawful) Good-aligned Shield Dwarf clan leader/king would ever have an apprehended traitor executed. I mean, let's say said traitorous dwarf - fearing the power of a militaristic drow enclave and being less fortunate than others of his kind - secretly allied with Drow and plotted his clan's destruction so he could possibly end on top of what's left of his clan. The invasion fails, and the traitor is caught. This dwarf, with what he knows and would do, I would think would possibly be too dangerous to keep alive.

If you must ask, I'm asking this to possibly help future board members or what-not if they ask the same question.
bitter thorn
02-27-07, 03:00 AM I think the death penalty for treason would be the norm even for the Elves.

I think that this would be the most grievious crime imaginable for a Dwarf in light of thier close knit and orderly society.
Stigger
02-27-07, 03:06 AM If the guy sold out your defenses and betrayed your trust, why would anyone in their right mind ever let them walk away, enforced or not, to do it all over again? Death or lifetime imprisonment are about the only sentences that makes sense to me.
Lord Karsus
02-27-07, 10:39 AM - Moon Elves. Don't know, but I'd say banishment.
- Sun Elves. Unknown, but I'd say above, but some more thoughts toward imprisonment.

-I'd revese these two, actually. Moon Elves like wandering around, and are often afflicted with wanderlust. Not being able to freely move about is a metaphorical low blow.

-Sun Elves, on the other hand, like to be part of the community. The lawfulness within them contributes to this. Everything has it's proper place and use. Exiling them would be like removing a peg from a cog. It would ultimatley hurt them more than Moon Elves.
GothicDan
02-27-07, 05:02 PM Exiling to the Elves is far, far worse then death.
The_Shaman
02-28-07, 08:36 PM I think that since it's the highest crime in most cultures, such treason deserves the highest punishment - whatever it is. It's not just disobedience (the way I read it) but rejecting all the race stands for.

Executions might be the norm for high treason among the dwarves, imo. Only imo when the perpetrator has committed more of a moral outrage than actual harm, a form of exile could be the norm. Even then, it would probably be acceptable if they can have a way (mark of justice, or some such) to brand the exile as a traitor for all dwarves to see. Basically, it would have to be something to make even duergar sneer and look down at him for, so the exile has meaning. It's supposed to be worse than death, not more merciful.

Elves: again, if it's banishment - and I think they could have executions for something really low - it would be something complete. It would probably be something that could bar even the soul from Arvanaith, and then some more. I wonder if given the elven taste for beauty, they would not intentionally mar the offender somewhat.
- note, we are talking about a really low betrayal. Not just a young elf who went to play rogue with the humans in their cesspool of a city, or even a psychotic murderer, but someone who sinned against the very nature of their race and deserves something worse than a chop at neck-level.

Gnomes and halflings... unless there's something very important, they might kill them. Only rock gnomes are likely to choose exile as a punishment, as life in the Underdark may be way harsher than death. Among the halflings, imo the ghostwise have a stronger tribal tradition so they could consider exile a serious measure.

Wild/wood elves: probably exile, as these are usually quite close-knit communities. A curse or two - if they have a good spellcaster at hand - may be thrown in for good measure.
The Ubbergeek
02-28-07, 08:52 PM The prison may be seen as a terrible punishement for fun-loving, freedom-thinking beings like elves, gnomes and halflings.

Orcs may have talibanesque punitions.... Maiming and tortures.

I know that dwarves do the Egyptian Tactic toward traitors and such - their names are obliterated, removed from the official records... Removal from the clan and banishment may be seen as a very serious punishement too.
Lord Karsus
03-01-07, 09:11 AM Orcs may have talibanesque punitions.... Maiming and tortures.

-Orcs should be sent to Bardic Colleges as punishment...
Stigger
03-01-07, 09:13 AM But why punish the poor bards that way?
Lord Karsus
03-01-07, 11:51 PM But why punish the poor bards that way?

-The majority of Bards who attend Bardic Colleges seem to be Dandy-like, like Danillo Thann. Thus, they deserve to be pubished.
BrianCritchley
03-02-07, 05:55 PM Dandy-like, like Danillo Thann

you do realize the whole dandy fop bit was an affected disguise to help him not attract much attention in his work as a harper right?

Elves: again, if it's banishment - and I think they could have executions for something really low - it would be something complete. It would probably be something that could bar even the soul from Arvanaith, and then some more. I wonder if given the elven taste for beauty, they would not intentionally mar the offender somewhat.

Baulder's Gate 2, in particular the punishment of Jon irenacuis and Bodhi, comes to mind. that punishment really WAS a fate worse then death. at least in the mindset of en elf
The Ubbergeek
03-02-07, 07:35 PM Baulder's Gate 2, in particular the punishment of Jon irenacuis and Bodhi, comes to mind. that punishment really WAS a fate worse then death. at least in the mindset of en elf

In the world of Dragonlance, it was the fate of Dalamar when he took on the Black Robe... There is a scene where he drink with another character in the books a Silvanesti wine, and you can see thate even for the dark one, he took it bad...
Stigger
03-02-07, 07:37 PM That and the Dandy part didn't exactly hurt concealing that he was a Lord either... well, back when that was the case.
Lord Karsus
03-02-07, 08:28 PM That and the Dandy part didn't exactly hurt concealing that he was a Lord either... well, back when that was the case.

-It was a pretty good "disguise". Of course, his pride got ahead of him in Silver Shadows, and his cover was forever blown, at least to the Knights of the Shield.
scrobacca
03-02-07, 08:40 PM I figure a good punishment would be a permanency polymorph into something that creature hates or despises the most. That way, if that elf hates trolls, turn him into a troll, and the only creatures he can hope to associate with are, well...trolls.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mad Mage 02-27-07, 01:07 AM	I was curious how each of the following races would deal with, say, a most grevious traitor, one that betrayed the defense secrets or some-such of their community for profit. The races I'm wondering about are these: - Shield Dwarves. More than likely exile/banishment. - Gold Dwarves. Likely as above. - Moon Elves. Don't know, but I'd say banishment. - Sun Elves. Unknown, but I'd say above, but some more thoughts toward imprisonment. - Rock Gnomes. Probably exile, maybe imprisonment. - Deep Gnomes. I'd say exile. - Mountain Orcs. Likely kill the traitor outright. I would wonder, if - for instance - if a (Lawful) Good-aligned Shield Dwarf clan leader/king would ever have an apprehended traitor executed. I mean, let's say said traitorous dwarf - fearing the power of a militaristic drow enclave and being less fortunate than others of his kind - secretly allied with Drow and plotted his clan's destruction so he could possibly end on top of what's left of his clan. The invasion fails, and the traitor is caught. This dwarf, with what he knows and would do, I would think would possibly be too dangerous to keep alive. If you must ask, I'm asking this to possibly help future board members or what-not if they ask the same question.
bitter thorn 02-27-07, 03:00 AM	I think the death penalty for treason would be the norm even for the Elves. I think that this would be the most grievious crime imaginable for a Dwarf in light of thier close knit and orderly society.
Stigger 02-27-07, 03:06 AM	If the guy sold out your defenses and betrayed your trust, why would anyone in their right mind ever let them walk away, enforced or not, to do it all over again? Death or lifetime imprisonment are about the only sentences that makes sense to me.
Lord Karsus 02-27-07, 10:39 AM	- Moon Elves. Don't know, but I'd say banishment. - Sun Elves. Unknown, but I'd say above, but some more thoughts toward imprisonment. -I'd revese these two, actually. Moon Elves like wandering around, and are often afflicted with wanderlust. Not being able to freely move about is a metaphorical low blow. -Sun Elves, on the other hand, like to be part of the community. The lawfulness within them contributes to this. Everything has it's proper place and use. Exiling them would be like removing a peg from a cog. It would ultimatley hurt them more than Moon Elves.
GothicDan 02-27-07, 05:02 PM	Exiling to the Elves is far, far worse then death.
The_Shaman 02-28-07, 08:36 PM	I think that since it's the highest crime in most cultures, such treason deserves the highest punishment - whatever it is. It's not just disobedience (the way I read it) but rejecting all the race stands for. Executions might be the norm for high treason among the dwarves, imo. Only imo when the perpetrator has committed more of a moral outrage than actual harm, a form of exile could be the norm. Even then, it would probably be acceptable if they can have a way (mark of justice, or some such) to brand the exile as a traitor for all dwarves to see. Basically, it would have to be something to make even duergar sneer and look down at him for, so the exile has meaning. It's supposed to be worse than death, not more merciful. Elves: again, if it's banishment - and I think they could have executions for something really low - it would be something complete. It would probably be something that could bar even the soul from Arvanaith, and then some more. I wonder if given the elven taste for beauty, they would not intentionally mar the offender somewhat. - note, we are talking about a really low betrayal. Not just a young elf who went to play rogue with the humans in their cesspool of a city, or even a psychotic murderer, but someone who sinned against the very nature of their race and deserves something worse than a chop at neck-level. Gnomes and halflings... unless there's something very important, they might kill them. Only rock gnomes are likely to choose exile as a punishment, as life in the Underdark may be way harsher than death. Among the halflings, imo the ghostwise have a stronger tribal tradition so they could consider exile a serious measure. Wild/wood elves: probably exile, as these are usually quite close-knit communities. A curse or two - if they have a good spellcaster at hand - may be thrown in for good measure.
The Ubbergeek 02-28-07, 08:52 PM	The prison may be seen as a terrible punishement for fun-loving, freedom-thinking beings like elves, gnomes and halflings. Orcs may have talibanesque punitions.... Maiming and tortures. I know that dwarves do the Egyptian Tactic toward traitors and such - their names are obliterated, removed from the official records... Removal from the clan and banishment may be seen as a very serious punishement too.
Lord Karsus 03-01-07, 09:11 AM	Orcs may have talibanesque punitions.... Maiming and tortures. -Orcs should be sent to Bardic Colleges as punishment...
Stigger 03-01-07, 09:13 AM	But why punish the poor bards that way?
Lord Karsus 03-01-07, 11:51 PM	But why punish the poor bards that way? -The majority of Bards who attend Bardic Colleges seem to be Dandy-like, like Danillo Thann. Thus, they deserve to be pubished.
BrianCritchley 03-02-07, 05:55 PM	Dandy-like, like Danillo Thann you do realize the whole dandy fop bit was an affected disguise to help him not attract much attention in his work as a harper right? Elves: again, if it's banishment - and I think they could have executions for something really low - it would be something complete. It would probably be something that could bar even the soul from Arvanaith, and then some more. I wonder if given the elven taste for beauty, they would not intentionally mar the offender somewhat. Baulder's Gate 2, in particular the punishment of Jon irenacuis and Bodhi, comes to mind. that punishment really WAS a fate worse then death. at least in the mindset of en elf
The Ubbergeek 03-02-07, 07:35 PM	Baulder's Gate 2, in particular the punishment of Jon irenacuis and Bodhi, comes to mind. that punishment really WAS a fate worse then death. at least in the mindset of en elf In the world of Dragonlance, it was the fate of Dalamar when he took on the Black Robe... There is a scene where he drink with another character in the books a Silvanesti wine, and you can see thate even for the dark one, he took it bad...
Stigger 03-02-07, 07:37 PM	That and the Dandy part didn't exactly hurt concealing that he was a Lord either... well, back when that was the case.
Lord Karsus 03-02-07, 08:28 PM	That and the Dandy part didn't exactly hurt concealing that he was a Lord either... well, back when that was the case. -It was a pretty good "disguise". Of course, his pride got ahead of him in Silver Shadows, and his cover was forever blown, at least to the Knights of the Shield.
scrobacca 03-02-07, 08:40 PM	I figure a good punishment would be a permanency polymorph into something that creature hates or despises the most. That way, if that elf hates trolls, turn him into a troll, and the only creatures he can hope to associate with are, well...trolls.