Shadow Weave users [Archive] - Wizards Community

Shadow Weave users [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Celestria
03-08-07, 12:11 AM Since the magic of Shadow Weave users, and the items they create, work in wild and dead magic areas, do the (Su)/(Sp) supernatural abilities of a Shadow Weave user work in the same way also? Any official answer would be greatly appreciated.
Celestria
03-08-07, 01:55 AM Actually, I Know the spell-like powers work still, but no clue as to the supernatural ones.
lavekkia
03-08-07, 01:26 PM I suppose you are referring a Weave dead/wild magic zone: since SW is not directly linked to it Su abilities work as normal because in fact there is no Dead/Wild magic zone in the Shadow Weave.

A Dead/Wild magic zone in SW would block any form of SW magic while Weave casters launch lightning bolts at you unhindered
Celestria
03-08-07, 08:35 PM <<I suppose you are referring a Weave dead/wild magic zone: since SW is
not directly linked to it Su abilities work as normal because in fact
there is no Dead/Wild magic zone in the Shadow Weave.

A Dead/Wild magic zone in SW would block any form of SW magic while
Weave casters launch lightning bolts at you unhindered>>

Thank you very much for your reply. Can you provide an official reference that states this in one of the books or other official source?

With a Shadar-Kai Shadow Weave Wizard-Shadow Adept with undead followers that has a lair inside a dead magic zone, we would like to find out officially if we are as screwed as we think we are.
lavekkia
03-09-07, 06:28 AM Magic Of Faerun FRCS and PGtF.

And yes you're screwed unless you find a way to take him out.
That's why Dead and Wild magic zones are so prized even if they are so dangerous
The_Shaman
03-09-07, 07:35 AM Yes - unless you manage to get a hold of the domain that gives you a chance to cast spells in a dead magic zone (Spell afaik), you're in deep trouble.
Alediran
03-09-07, 02:31 PM You could use spells like Wish to repair the damaged zone, or if it is a big one, you could cast a sending to one of the chosens of mystra, after all, DMG are one of the things they usually take care to repair.
Pitviper64
03-11-07, 12:05 PM PGtF has the inniate of Mystra feat that only works for clerics but it would give you a chance to combat the shadar-kai with at least one spell caster.

And heres the only tip i kow for dealing with the shadar-kai use improved sunder to destroy the arm band the even poking him gives you a chance to neg level him to death.
The Ubbergeek
03-11-07, 04:22 PM Magic Of Faerun FRCS and PGtF.

And yes you're screwed unless you find a way to take him out.
That's why Dead and Wild magic zones are so prized even if they are so dangerous

I may be wrong, was not there instance of screwed magical zones also for the Shadow Weaves, even places in BOTH? I means, Shadow Weave dead zones and wild shadow zones?
The Simbul
03-11-07, 04:51 PM Since the magic of Shadow Weave users, and the items they create, work in wild and dead magic areas, do the (Su)/(Sp) supernatural abilities of a Shadow Weave user work in the same way also? Any official answer would be greatly appreciated.If you want an "official" answer then it largely depends on what book you are consulting and whether or not your DM is capable of critical thinking, capable of determining the intent of an author, and capable of coming to a rational conclusion, without the authors, customer service representatives, or the Sage walking him through the process...since so far they are of little use in creating a concise answer, or one that fits within the prevailing notion here (that all of your magical abilities/items draw on one weave or the other)

The reason I say so is that the "official" answer can be interpreted differently depending on which book you consult, specifically if you do not have all of the books on the subject at hand. As in, because of the poor wording of the Shadow Weave Magic feat, and because of the poor wording of the Deny Weave/Deny Shadow Weave salient divine abilities of Mystra/Shar, there is room for a DM who doesn't have the full FR resources at his or her disposal to conclude that the Shadow Weave Magic feat does not apply to spell-like or supernatural abilities.

That is because the Shadow Weave Magic feat's poor wording only references your "spells" insofar as to which of magical abilities will now draw on the Shadow Weave. As in the feat makes no mention of spell-like or supernatural abilities. This would obviously seem like an unintended error, yet suggestions that it be fixed have not been greeted with a similar conclusion. Likewise the reason why it only mentions spells likely because most players will not gain spell-like/supernatural abilities in their careers, and because the core benefits of the feat (bonuses to CL and spell save DC) are only intended to apply to your spells, and are far more motivating as a factor for choosing the feat than as insurance against the rarely-encountered dead magic zone or wrath of Mystra.

Likewise, Deny Weave/Deny Shadow Weave are equally poorly worded because a literal interpretation of their wording, without access to previous materials, would give a reader the impression that supernatural abilities are not dependent on the/a Weave, and that being denied access to a weave would impact your spellcasting anywhere in the multiverse, when in fact it would only hamper you on the prime material plane of Toril (as that is the only place where you need access to the/a weave to cast spells).

By contrast however, anyone who has extensively read Magic of Faerun, which is by definition the most concise book on all things magical in the realms, will understand that:
A) all spells, spell-like abilities, supernatural powers, and magic items are dependent on the/a weave to function
B) A Dead Magic zone will hamper all spells, spell-like abilities, supernatural powers, and magic items of a character who draws on the weave it is affecting.
C) Mystra and Shar can block someone from using any spell, spell-like ability, supernatural power, or spell-completetion/spell-trigger magic item that draws upon their weave through the use of Mystra's Refusal or Shar's presumed equivalent ability.

P.S. Wild Magic zones have no effect on supernatural abilities. They also will only affect a magic item if the magic item is one that actually "casts" a spell (such as a scroll, wand, etc), and only if it is activated from within the radius of the wild magic zone.
The Simbul
03-11-07, 04:58 PM Dead Magic and Wild Magic areas certainly can exist in the Shadow Weave as well as the true Weave, and in such a scenario they would only affect the magic of a Shadow Weave spellcaster.

The reason why they are not as prevalent as those in the Weave is because the Shadow Weave has not been used by massive numbers of people, and because Deities, mythals, and artifacts that draw upon the Shadow Weave do not get destroyed very often.

Logically, dead magic zones in the Shadow Weave would most likely exist in the more prominent temples of Mystra, Selune, Azuth, or Savras, and potentially others. They would likewise logically exist in any stronghold or safehouse belonging to the Guardians of the Weave or the Chosen of Mystra, all thanks to the rend shadow weave spell.
dragonheart
03-12-07, 09:00 PM Learning the rend shadow weave spell would be a very good move for your PCs - stand outside and cast it in creating as deep a dead shadpow weave area as possible before you step into the dead magic area. hopefully there is an area where you are both stopped from using magic and then the fighters can have it out.
The Ubbergeek
03-18-07, 02:31 AM Kind of related, since we touch about the general subject....

By memory, is there zones where magic is actually just ENHANCED or WEAKENED? kind of like in Shadowrun, by example. How would that work?
Karsus the Mad
03-18-07, 02:45 AM Kind of related, since we touch about the general subject....

By memory, is there zones where magic is actually just ENHANCED or WEAKENED? kind of like in Shadowrun, by example. How would that work?

Malestroms and Sparks are detailed in Magic of Faerun (along with other magical phenomena). There's also nodes. Mythals, or mythal-like effects that hamper or improve certain magics also exist:)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Celestria 03-08-07, 12:11 AM	Since the magic of Shadow Weave users, and the items they create, work in wild and dead magic areas, do the (Su)/(Sp) supernatural abilities of a Shadow Weave user work in the same way also? Any official answer would be greatly appreciated.
Celestria 03-08-07, 01:55 AM	Actually, I Know the spell-like powers work still, but no clue as to the supernatural ones.
lavekkia 03-08-07, 01:26 PM	I suppose you are referring a Weave dead/wild magic zone: since SW is not directly linked to it Su abilities work as normal because in fact there is no Dead/Wild magic zone in the Shadow Weave. A Dead/Wild magic zone in SW would block any form of SW magic while Weave casters launch lightning bolts at you unhindered
Celestria 03-08-07, 08:35 PM	<<I suppose you are referring a Weave dead/wild magic zone: since SW is not directly linked to it Su abilities work as normal because in fact there is no Dead/Wild magic zone in the Shadow Weave. A Dead/Wild magic zone in SW would block any form of SW magic while Weave casters launch lightning bolts at you unhindered>> Thank you very much for your reply. Can you provide an official reference that states this in one of the books or other official source? With a Shadar-Kai Shadow Weave Wizard-Shadow Adept with undead followers that has a lair inside a dead magic zone, we would like to find out officially if we are as screwed as we think we are.
lavekkia 03-09-07, 06:28 AM	Magic Of Faerun FRCS and PGtF. And yes you're screwed unless you find a way to take him out. That's why Dead and Wild magic zones are so prized even if they are so dangerous
The_Shaman 03-09-07, 07:35 AM	Yes - unless you manage to get a hold of the domain that gives you a chance to cast spells in a dead magic zone (Spell afaik), you're in deep trouble.
Alediran 03-09-07, 02:31 PM	You could use spells like Wish to repair the damaged zone, or if it is a big one, you could cast a sending to one of the chosens of mystra, after all, DMG are one of the things they usually take care to repair.
Pitviper64 03-11-07, 12:05 PM	PGtF has the inniate of Mystra feat that only works for clerics but it would give you a chance to combat the shadar-kai with at least one spell caster. And heres the only tip i kow for dealing with the shadar-kai use improved sunder to destroy the arm band the even poking him gives you a chance to neg level him to death.
The Ubbergeek 03-11-07, 04:22 PM	Magic Of Faerun FRCS and PGtF. And yes you're screwed unless you find a way to take him out. That's why Dead and Wild magic zones are so prized even if they are so dangerous I may be wrong, was not there instance of screwed magical zones also for the Shadow Weaves, even places in BOTH? I means, Shadow Weave dead zones and wild shadow zones?
The Simbul 03-11-07, 04:51 PM	Since the magic of Shadow Weave users, and the items they create, work in wild and dead magic areas, do the (Su)/(Sp) supernatural abilities of a Shadow Weave user work in the same way also? Any official answer would be greatly appreciated.If you want an "official" answer then it largely depends on what book you are consulting and whether or not your DM is capable of critical thinking, capable of determining the intent of an author, and capable of coming to a rational conclusion, without the authors, customer service representatives, or the Sage walking him through the process...since so far they are of little use in creating a concise answer, or one that fits within the prevailing notion here (that all of your magical abilities/items draw on one weave or the other) The reason I say so is that the "official" answer can be interpreted differently depending on which book you consult, specifically if you do not have all of the books on the subject at hand. As in, because of the poor wording of the Shadow Weave Magic feat, and because of the poor wording of the Deny Weave/Deny Shadow Weave salient divine abilities of Mystra/Shar, there is room for a DM who doesn't have the full FR resources at his or her disposal to conclude that the Shadow Weave Magic feat does not apply to spell-like or supernatural abilities. That is because the Shadow Weave Magic feat's poor wording only references your "spells" insofar as to which of magical abilities will now draw on the Shadow Weave. As in the feat makes no mention of spell-like or supernatural abilities. This would obviously seem like an unintended error, yet suggestions that it be fixed have not been greeted with a similar conclusion. Likewise the reason why it only mentions spells likely because most players will not gain spell-like/supernatural abilities in their careers, and because the core benefits of the feat (bonuses to CL and spell save DC) are only intended to apply to your spells, and are far more motivating as a factor for choosing the feat than as insurance against the rarely-encountered dead magic zone or wrath of Mystra. Likewise, Deny Weave/Deny Shadow Weave are equally poorly worded because a literal interpretation of their wording, without access to previous materials, would give a reader the impression that supernatural abilities are not dependent on the/a Weave, and that being denied access to a weave would impact your spellcasting anywhere in the multiverse, when in fact it would only hamper you on the prime material plane of Toril (as that is the only place where you need access to the/a weave to cast spells). By contrast however, anyone who has extensively read Magic of Faerun, which is by definition the most concise book on all things magical in the realms, will understand that: A) all spells, spell-like abilities, supernatural powers, and magic items are dependent on the/a weave to function B) A Dead Magic zone will hamper all spells, spell-like abilities, supernatural powers, and magic items of a character who draws on the weave it is affecting. C) Mystra and Shar can block someone from using any spell, spell-like ability, supernatural power, or spell-completetion/spell-trigger magic item that draws upon their weave through the use of Mystra's Refusal or Shar's presumed equivalent ability. P.S. Wild Magic zones have no effect on supernatural abilities. They also will only affect a magic item if the magic item is one that actually "casts" a spell (such as a scroll, wand, etc), and only if it is activated from within the radius of the wild magic zone.
The Simbul 03-11-07, 04:58 PM	Dead Magic and Wild Magic areas certainly can exist in the Shadow Weave as well as the true Weave, and in such a scenario they would only affect the magic of a Shadow Weave spellcaster. The reason why they are not as prevalent as those in the Weave is because the Shadow Weave has not been used by massive numbers of people, and because Deities, mythals, and artifacts that draw upon the Shadow Weave do not get destroyed very often. Logically, dead magic zones in the Shadow Weave would most likely exist in the more prominent temples of Mystra, Selune, Azuth, or Savras, and potentially others. They would likewise logically exist in any stronghold or safehouse belonging to the Guardians of the Weave or the Chosen of Mystra, all thanks to the rend shadow weave spell.
dragonheart 03-12-07, 09:00 PM	Learning the rend shadow weave spell would be a very good move for your PCs - stand outside and cast it in creating as deep a dead shadpow weave area as possible before you step into the dead magic area. hopefully there is an area where you are both stopped from using magic and then the fighters can have it out.
The Ubbergeek 03-18-07, 02:31 AM	Kind of related, since we touch about the general subject.... By memory, is there zones where magic is actually just ENHANCED or WEAKENED? kind of like in Shadowrun, by example. How would that work?
Karsus the Mad 03-18-07, 02:45 AM	Kind of related, since we touch about the general subject.... By memory, is there zones where magic is actually just ENHANCED or WEAKENED? kind of like in Shadowrun, by example. How would that work? Malestroms and Sparks are detailed in Magic of Faerun (along with other magical phenomena). There's also nodes. Mythals, or mythal-like effects that hamper or improve certain magics also exist:)