Post/Author/DateTime	Post
OverworkedDm 03-25-08, 03:55 PM	***spoilers*** Hey guys, I recently finished Undead, the second book in Byers haunted lands series, and it gave me a campaign idea. My idea is that the player characters get kidnapped by slavers, or necromancers loyal to Szass tam.They are then sent to Xingax, and transformed into powerful undead creatures to serve as elite troops for tam(much like Tammith in the novel). My question to you all is what should i transform the characters into? What interesting forms of undeath could i make them into? Any suggestions are welcome, and thanks ahead of time for your input.
Lord Karsus 03-25-08, 04:11 PM	-Depends on their classes, in my opinon. What classes to we have to work with? For example, a former Fighter would be a good Death Knight. A former Rogue wouldn't.
OverworkedDm 03-25-08, 04:36 PM	Sorry LK i didnt even think about classes, but the Death Knight idea had crossed my mind. As far as classes go im not sure, i havent talked it over with my players. Ive also considered making them commoners who are transformed into a form with a cr equaling that of one of the other characters with class lvls and a template added, like a fighter death knight. If you have suggestions for class template combinations that u think i should use please post them, or if u have straight up creatures without class levels let me know, im open for suggestions.
Lord Karsus 03-25-08, 04:43 PM	-Oh, the campaign is not currently running. Gotcha. -Well, something like this: Fighter/Paladin: Death Knight Wizard/Sorerer: Lich Rogue: Vampire Bard: Spectral Harpist, perhaps (I believe that was not a "unique" and/or "restricted" Undead ghost creature) Monk: I'm at a loss for ideas for this one Ranger: Curst -Basically, the concept is to match an Undead creature that seems to have attributes in common with a class archetype that they character wants to/will play.
OverworkedDm 03-25-08, 04:59 PM	How about specific undead creatures, like the angel of decay out of the libris mortis, or creatures not undead, but with a strong relationship to the undead like the bloodfiend, or the Maurezhi? Those are some ideas ive had but i was wondering if anybody else had other suggestions? BTW thanks for the input LK.
Lord Karsus 03-25-08, 05:15 PM	How about specific undead creatures, like the angel of decay out of the libris mortis, or creatures not undead, but with a strong relationship to the undead like the bloodfiend, or the Maurezhi? -I don't have that book, so I really can't comment. That said, like I said, take a look at whatever Undead creature it is, and see what Class you think matches the most. BTW thanks for the input LK. -No problem.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-26-08, 08:45 PM	I recently finished Undead, the second book in Byers haunted lands series, and it gave me a campaign idea. My idea is that the player characters get kidnapped by slavers, or necromancers loyal to Szass tam.They are then sent to Xingax, and transformed into powerful undead creatures to serve as elite troops for tam(much like Tammith in the novel). My question to you all is what should i transform the characters into? What interesting forms of undeath could i make them into? Any suggestions are welcome, and thanks ahead of time for your input. The question that popped into my head, that I think should be considered first, is "Would your players enjoy such a plot-forced transformation?" I've read a few horror stories about (unwanted) character transformations like that, particularly one where the DM transformed the players, and expected the players to want to stay with their new forms--apparently, he was taken aback when one of the players immediately made it his goal to change back to his original form.
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 03-26-08, 10:36 PM	How 'bout Necropolitans from libris mortis? they bont get nothing (good or bad) but the undead subtype no evel ajustment and all that :)
Lord Karsus 03-26-08, 11:49 PM	The question that popped into my head, that I think should be considered first, is "Would your players enjoy such a plot-forced transformation?" I've read a few horror stories about (unwanted) character transformations like that, particularly one where the DM transformed the players, and expected the players to want to stay with their new forms--apparently, he was taken aback when one of the players immediately made it his goal to change back to his original form. -Indeed. I take a lot of time and effort interesting creating histories and backstories for ALL of my characters. I also take time and effort creating my characer 'build'. That said, if my DM changed all of that without telling me, and FORCED me to transform, I would be a bit angry. And, by "a bit", I mean "very".
MarkusTay63 03-27-08, 01:50 AM	Fighter/Paladin: Death Knight Wizard/Sorerer: Lich Rogue: Vampire Bard: Spectral Harpist, perhaps (I believe that was not a "unique" and/or "restricted" Undead ghost creature) Monk: I'm at a loss for ideas for this one Ranger: CurstGood List But I would make the Sorceror a Wizshade (so he's seperate from the Wizards), and use a Vampire for the Monk (don't know why, but it seems appropriate).Then I suppose you'd have to change the Rogue... what kind of Undead are 'sneaky'? A Ghost, perhaps? Spectre? Haunt? Priests would naturally become Mummys. :D Henchmen all become Ghouls. :P
Lord Karsus 03-27-08, 02:00 AM	But I would make the Sorcror a Wizshade (so he's seperate from the Wizards), and use a Vampire for the Monk (don't know why, but it seems appropriate). -Ah. I forgot about Wizshades. As for Monks, you need something lawful, something methodical. What that would be, I don't know. Are there any LN Undead? Then I suppose you'd have to change the Rogue... what kind of Undead are 'sneaky'? A Ghost, perhaps? Spectre? Haunt? -The reason I chose 'Vampires' for 'Rogues' is because whenever I think 'Vampire', I think of the cover of the new Ravenloft book- Stradh (I believe) in the middle of pouncing on something, like a cat. I've come to associate Vampires with dexterity. So, with that in mind, 'Vampires' and 'Rogues' go hand-in-hand. Priests would naturally become Mummys. :D -D'oh! I forgot to include Clerics on that list. :doh: Henchmen all become Ghouls. :P -Nah, they are just reborn, and become Henchmen again. Their torment and suffering is for all eternity.
Kiioro 03-27-08, 02:21 AM	If you have Libris Mortis, as you said: I think that bards would make great Crypt Chanters too. A monk Monk could be made into quite interesting Entombers. As said before, Necropolitans are excellent options for all, because you don't have any level adjustments (ok, you lose one, but... it's not as hard as a LA+2 or more, as usually happens with undead).
Lord Karsus 03-27-08, 02:25 AM	I think that bards would make great Crypt Chanters too. A monk Monk could be made into quite interesting Entombers. -What are the basic premises' behind either?
SteelGeneral 03-27-08, 09:52 AM	Wasn't there a Ravenloft module that had some kind of conversion table in it? I'm thinking the DM used it in a "evil campaign" I played in long ago.
MarkusTay63 03-28-08, 06:22 PM	I don't know, I still get more of a 'Monk' vibe from the Vampire, then a 'roguish' one. Monks are just as much about dex as Rogues are, and perhaps moreso. Plus they couple super-natural abilities with hand-to-hand, so it seems like a perfect fit to me. Besides, think about it... what could be more frightening then Vampiric Ninjas? :D How about making a Rogue into an Etehreal Filcher? Sure, its not undead, but it fits. ;) Oh... and Van Ritchten's Guide to Lichs had Bardic Liches, as well as psionic ones.
Kiioro 03-29-08, 12:35 AM	It seems that I've created the monk Monk class, but that aside... You might find these useful, Lord Karsus, maybe they'd make good sentries: An Entomber is a necromancer's minion, whose main tasks revolve around digging up or down bodies (not necessarily dead). They are lawful and have unarmed attacks that are fearsome -the reasons why I thought of a monk-, mostly the attack that, with a successful slam, if you fail a CHA save, the creature entombs you. Just like that. A Crypt Chanter is an incorporeal undead that sings / plays an instrument constantly in the night, and its attacks are based on that. If a creature fails a Will save, it is entranced, and on the next round, through the chant, the Crypt Chanter drains 1d2 negative levels per round (ouch).
MarkusTay63 03-29-08, 04:01 AM	A banshee would be perfect for undead FEMALE bard. :devil: I think Dread Warrrior for a fighter, and leave the death Knight for the Pally. The Dread Warrior is Thay-specific, so its a better fit, too. Is there a psionic undead... I mean besides the Psionic Lich? :confused: A Druid should be a Wight... don't know why... maybe its the whole earth/barrow connection...
Lord Karsus 03-29-08, 11:49 AM	An Entomber is a necromancer's minion, whose main tasks revolve around digging up or down bodies (not necessarily dead). They are lawful and have unarmed attacks that are fearsome -the reasons why I thought of a monk-, mostly the attack that, with a successful slam, if you fail a CHA save, the creature entombs you. Just like that. -That definitley sounds Monkish.
1 ton ghost 04-02-08, 03:00 PM	Rogue = sepulchral thief (Cityscape). Fairly simple to add template, terribly effective. Ideally, the Necropolitans would probably be the easiest motif to implement. No huge LA, simple, nothing over-the-top
Jiggawha 04-02-08, 03:58 PM	http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Templates.pdf you can find a brief descriptions of good templates here, with not that high LA, I like those from Dragon 313, have used some of them as major races on my undead continent