Sun Elf to Eladrin? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Sun Elf to Eladrin? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Aramais
01-24-08, 02:05 PM I was just wondering if anyone had any idea how to reconcile the fact that the sun elves are now supposed to be Eladrin? I personally like the idea of making things into drow, eladrin, and elves. But the Elves of myth drannor are clearly more along the lines of 4e Eladrin than elves, but the 4e eladrin are suppose to be extra planar fey people from the feywilde, which the elves of Myth Drannor are not?

So how do you think they are going to work this one out, or how do you personally think this dilemma should be managed?
Another Gnome
01-24-08, 03:17 PM Sun elves were originally extraplanar fey people from the Realm of Faerie, I don't see the difference.
Aramais
01-24-08, 03:52 PM Yes they were once, but they aren't any longer is my problem... I just think there is a problem with simply saying that all sun elves/moon elves/star elves have suddenly turned into the Eladrin. The eladrin seem to have a different flavor to them, but I guess it isn't much of a stretch.
Storm_Silverhand
01-24-08, 04:47 PM Heya,

Yes they were once, but they aren't any longer is my problem... I just think there is a problem with simply saying that all sun elves/moon elves/star elves have suddenly turned into the Eladrin. The eladrin seem to have a different flavor to them, but I guess it isn't much of a stretch.

It's a retcon. Sun, Moon, and Star Elves have always been Eladrin, they just call themselves Elves.
SmartPaladin
01-24-08, 11:44 PM And they've been on Abeir-Toril for quiet some time. But so long as the Eladrin more or less keep their blood "pure" (see more Eladrin blood then anything else) then they should still remain Eladrin. No matter how long they've been on Abeir-Toril. Or at least that's how I'd handle it.
MarkusTay63
01-25-08, 03:02 AM Actaully, THE Eladrin and Gray (Sun & Moon) Elves are sub-races, but all three consider themselves THE main race - that means Eladrin call the over-race Eladrin, whilst the Gray Elves simply call themselves Sun and Moon Elves.

The Eladrin 'Group' is not the same as the 3e race, but rather that race is just part of a larger one that happens to include the Gray Elves now. Thats from the Races & Classes preview, and it's pretty moronic, considering that it says that they aren't even sure who or what was the original 'parent' race.

They should have come up with a NEW name to describe this group, like Ælfin, or Shide, or even Eladriim - by referring to a new 'over-grouping' by the name of one of the sub-groups, you create far more confusion in a game that is supposedly getting simpler.

Another one of those bizarre decisions that when you look at it, all you can say is WTF?
Lord Karsus
01-25-08, 09:40 AM -Stats wise, they will just have 'Eladrin' stats. Nothing else changes, though. They are still Sun Elves, Moon Elves, and Star Elves, believe themselves to be Sun Elves, Moon Elves and Star Elves, etc. Things change for us, not them.
Alediran
01-25-08, 09:46 AM The problem will be if suddenly they all look the same. I hope Moon Elves and Star Elves aren't retconed to always having golden skin.
MarkusTay63
01-25-08, 10:26 AM Eladrin is a race... Humans are a race...

Do WE all look alike?

I just think having the 'parent race' have the same name as one of the sub-groups is extremely stupid - they couldn't even be ceative enough to think up a new name for that?

Its sad... very sad. :(

Also, no more posting after 3AM for me - that last post was a mess - I had to edit the cr@p out of it just to make it ledgible. :rolleyes:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
01-25-08, 01:32 PM Let's not forget that eladrins will apparently have the ability to "jump" into the Feywild, which is definitely something gold and silver elves didn't have before.
Lord Karsus
01-25-08, 02:09 PM Let's not forget that eladrins will apparently have the ability to "jump" into the Feywild, which is definitely something gold and silver elves didn't have before.

-Say what now? Basically, they'll now be able to Planeshift (or some equivalent) into the Plane of Faerie as a supernatural ability? See, unless that's eliminated for the Forgotten Realms version ("...As the PHB, except..."), or a plausible in game reason is developed, that's going to cause some continuity problems, methinks.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
01-25-08, 07:40 PM -Say what now? Basically, they'll now be able to Planeshift (or some equivalent) into the Plane of Faerie as a supernatural ability?

Yes, something to that effect.:) Eladrins in 4E are supposed to be super-connected to the Feywild.
Mula
01-26-08, 03:47 AM Yeah, only lythari have that kind of ability, if I remember right.
Charles Phipps
01-26-08, 04:42 AM Guys, it's not that hard of a concept. Eldarin doesn't refer to the Eldarin race, you can just call those "Angels of the Seldarine now." It's a lot simpler to be honest. I'm sure they'll be renamed Sidhe or Tuatha De Daanan or something similiar.

Like I said, it's best to think of this is all the result of temporal Fall out from Vecna shattering the Multiverse ;-)

You know, before Cyric did.

As for the Feywild jumping ability, like Elaine Cunningham "fixing" the drow with Liriel Baenrae....gaining the ability to jump into the feywild will probably be done IC.
Lord Karsus
01-26-08, 08:19 AM Yeah, only lythari have that kind of ability, if I remember right.

-It isn't an ability, really. Just like a dog's senses are far more acute than our senses, a Lythari's senses are far more acute than Elven senses. Elves can easily sense hidden doors. Lythari can easily sense hidden portals.
MarkusTay63
01-26-08, 01:58 PM Right...

and if you check what I wrote in one of the two Moonshaes thread, those Faerie Gates have ALWAYS existed in canon, but for whatever reason, most of the Fey races lost their abilty to find these portals along the way.

The creatures in the Moonshaes, however, NEVER lost the ability, as demonstrated by the Moonshae novels - Not only do the Elves of Synnoria obviously travel through part of Faerie to reach their Kingdom (going by the novel description), but even the Moonshae Trolls (Trollkin) are still able to find and use these portals at will.

They don't need to explain the ability - they need to explain why the Elves (and others) lost the ability.

Now, tying it to the other changes in 4e, we can easily figure that High Magic used to access Raw Magic directly, but as the Elves 'grew lazy' and started to use Mystra's Weave, that connection to the plane of Raw Magic (Faerie) was lost. In 4e, the Elves will need to 'rediscover' their ancient gifts and abilities, thats all.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
01-26-08, 07:30 PM Eh, I personally was fond of the idea of Faerie being another planet, not a plane. But that's me.

Besides, I thought the Eladrin are going to have an innate ability to travel to the Feywild. Isn't that different from using a portal?
Lord Karsus
01-26-08, 07:38 PM Eh, I personally was fond of the idea of Faerie being another planet, not a plane. But that's me.

-There exists a possibility of a planet known as 'Faerie', because if I recall correctly, the Spelljamming Elves introduced in Evermeet: Island of the Elves, mentioned that they were from Faerie. I might be getting my facts backwards, however.

Besides, I thought the Eladrin are going to have an innate ability to travel to the Feywild. Isn't that different from using a portal?

-Depends on exactly how that ability is written up and pans out. It could theoretically be an ability to sense portals to Faerie, like the Lythari can.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
01-26-08, 07:42 PM -Depends on exactly how that ability is written up and pans out.

True, true.
MarkusTay63
01-27-08, 12:49 AM Faeriespace is a crystal sphere from the Spelljammer Campaign Setting, and I've seen it spelled 'Feyspace' and 'Fairyspace'.

Basically, its a Fey Sphere with two planets - one for the Seelie, and one for the Unseelie. It doesn't neccessarily have to be their original homeworld, which could still be the Feywild.

I thought I remember the Elven Homeworld being a seperate sphere, one who's single world looked like a ginormous tree. Not sure - maybe that was Gardenspace...

There's also a Webspace, for the spacefaring Drow. :D
Another Gnome
01-27-08, 07:26 AM :heehee
Alediran
01-30-08, 11:16 AM There's also a Webspace, for the spacefaring Drow. :D

Yousa saying mesa drow?

That one made me laugh a lot.
XHereticX
02-01-08, 07:53 PM There's also a Webspace, for the spacefaring Drow. :D

I woudn't trust that connectio. The Demonweb has notoriously bad service.;)

And the religious spam...ugh

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aramais 01-24-08, 02:05 PM	I was just wondering if anyone had any idea how to reconcile the fact that the sun elves are now supposed to be Eladrin? I personally like the idea of making things into drow, eladrin, and elves. But the Elves of myth drannor are clearly more along the lines of 4e Eladrin than elves, but the 4e eladrin are suppose to be extra planar fey people from the feywilde, which the elves of Myth Drannor are not? So how do you think they are going to work this one out, or how do you personally think this dilemma should be managed?
Another Gnome 01-24-08, 03:17 PM	Sun elves were originally extraplanar fey people from the Realm of Faerie, I don't see the difference.
Aramais 01-24-08, 03:52 PM	Yes they were once, but they aren't any longer is my problem... I just think there is a problem with simply saying that all sun elves/moon elves/star elves have suddenly turned into the Eladrin. The eladrin seem to have a different flavor to them, but I guess it isn't much of a stretch.
Storm_Silverhand 01-24-08, 04:47 PM	Heya, Yes they were once, but they aren't any longer is my problem... I just think there is a problem with simply saying that all sun elves/moon elves/star elves have suddenly turned into the Eladrin. The eladrin seem to have a different flavor to them, but I guess it isn't much of a stretch. It's a retcon. Sun, Moon, and Star Elves have always been Eladrin, they just call themselves Elves.
SmartPaladin 01-24-08, 11:44 PM	And they've been on Abeir-Toril for quiet some time. But so long as the Eladrin more or less keep their blood "pure" (see more Eladrin blood then anything else) then they should still remain Eladrin. No matter how long they've been on Abeir-Toril. Or at least that's how I'd handle it.
MarkusTay63 01-25-08, 03:02 AM	Actaully, THE Eladrin and Gray (Sun & Moon) Elves are sub-races, but all three consider themselves THE main race - that means Eladrin call the over-race Eladrin, whilst the Gray Elves simply call themselves Sun and Moon Elves. The Eladrin 'Group' is not the same as the 3e race, but rather that race is just part of a larger one that happens to include the Gray Elves now. Thats from the Races & Classes preview, and it's pretty moronic, considering that it says that they aren't even sure who or what was the original 'parent' race. They should have come up with a NEW name to describe this group, like Ælfin, or Shide, or even Eladriim - by referring to a new 'over-grouping' by the name of one of the sub-groups, you create far more confusion in a game that is supposedly getting simpler. Another one of those bizarre decisions that when you look at it, all you can say is WTF?
Lord Karsus 01-25-08, 09:40 AM	-Stats wise, they will just have 'Eladrin' stats. Nothing else changes, though. They are still Sun Elves, Moon Elves, and Star Elves, believe themselves to be Sun Elves, Moon Elves and Star Elves, etc. Things change for us, not them.
Alediran 01-25-08, 09:46 AM	The problem will be if suddenly they all look the same. I hope Moon Elves and Star Elves aren't retconed to always having golden skin.
MarkusTay63 01-25-08, 10:26 AM	Eladrin is a race... Humans are a race... Do WE all look alike? I just think having the 'parent race' have the same name as one of the sub-groups is extremely stupid - they couldn't even be ceative enough to think up a new name for that? Its sad... very sad. :( Also, no more posting after 3AM for me - that last post was a mess - I had to edit the cr@p out of it just to make it ledgible. :rolleyes:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-25-08, 01:32 PM	Let's not forget that eladrins will apparently have the ability to "jump" into the Feywild, which is definitely something gold and silver elves didn't have before.
Lord Karsus 01-25-08, 02:09 PM	Let's not forget that eladrins will apparently have the ability to "jump" into the Feywild, which is definitely something gold and silver elves didn't have before. -Say what now? Basically, they'll now be able to Planeshift (or some equivalent) into the Plane of Faerie as a supernatural ability? See, unless that's eliminated for the Forgotten Realms version ("...As the PHB, except..."), or a plausible in game reason is developed, that's going to cause some continuity problems, methinks.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-25-08, 07:40 PM	-Say what now? Basically, they'll now be able to Planeshift (or some equivalent) into the Plane of Faerie as a supernatural ability? Yes, something to that effect.:) Eladrins in 4E are supposed to be super-connected to the Feywild.
Mula 01-26-08, 03:47 AM	Yeah, only lythari have that kind of ability, if I remember right.
Charles Phipps 01-26-08, 04:42 AM	Guys, it's not that hard of a concept. Eldarin doesn't refer to the Eldarin race, you can just call those "Angels of the Seldarine now." It's a lot simpler to be honest. I'm sure they'll be renamed Sidhe or Tuatha De Daanan or something similiar. Like I said, it's best to think of this is all the result of temporal Fall out from Vecna shattering the Multiverse ;-) You know, before Cyric did. As for the Feywild jumping ability, like Elaine Cunningham "fixing" the drow with Liriel Baenrae....gaining the ability to jump into the feywild will probably be done IC.
Lord Karsus 01-26-08, 08:19 AM	Yeah, only lythari have that kind of ability, if I remember right. -It isn't an ability, really. Just like a dog's senses are far more acute than our senses, a Lythari's senses are far more acute than Elven senses. Elves can easily sense hidden doors. Lythari can easily sense hidden portals.
MarkusTay63 01-26-08, 01:58 PM	Right... and if you check what I wrote in one of the two Moonshaes thread, those Faerie Gates have ALWAYS existed in canon, but for whatever reason, most of the Fey races lost their abilty to find these portals along the way. The creatures in the Moonshaes, however, NEVER lost the ability, as demonstrated by the Moonshae novels - Not only do the Elves of Synnoria obviously travel through part of Faerie to reach their Kingdom (going by the novel description), but even the Moonshae Trolls (Trollkin) are still able to find and use these portals at will. They don't need to explain the ability - they need to explain why the Elves (and others) lost the ability. Now, tying it to the other changes in 4e, we can easily figure that High Magic used to access Raw Magic directly, but as the Elves 'grew lazy' and started to use Mystra's Weave, that connection to the plane of Raw Magic (Faerie) was lost. In 4e, the Elves will need to 'rediscover' their ancient gifts and abilities, thats all.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-26-08, 07:30 PM	Eh, I personally was fond of the idea of Faerie being another planet, not a plane. But that's me. Besides, I thought the Eladrin are going to have an innate ability to travel to the Feywild. Isn't that different from using a portal?
Lord Karsus 01-26-08, 07:38 PM	Eh, I personally was fond of the idea of Faerie being another planet, not a plane. But that's me. -There exists a possibility of a planet known as 'Faerie', because if I recall correctly, the Spelljamming Elves introduced in Evermeet: Island of the Elves, mentioned that they were from Faerie. I might be getting my facts backwards, however. Besides, I thought the Eladrin are going to have an innate ability to travel to the Feywild. Isn't that different from using a portal? -Depends on exactly how that ability is written up and pans out. It could theoretically be an ability to sense portals to Faerie, like the Lythari can.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-26-08, 07:42 PM	-Depends on exactly how that ability is written up and pans out. True, true.
MarkusTay63 01-27-08, 12:49 AM	Faeriespace is a crystal sphere from the Spelljammer Campaign Setting, and I've seen it spelled 'Feyspace' and 'Fairyspace'. Basically, its a Fey Sphere with two planets - one for the Seelie, and one for the Unseelie. It doesn't neccessarily have to be their original homeworld, which could still be the Feywild. I thought I remember the Elven Homeworld being a seperate sphere, one who's single world looked like a ginormous tree. Not sure - maybe that was Gardenspace... There's also a Webspace, for the spacefaring Drow. :D
Another Gnome 01-27-08, 07:26 AM	:heehee
Alediran 01-30-08, 11:16 AM	There's also a Webspace, for the spacefaring Drow. :D Yousa saying mesa drow? That one made me laugh a lot.
XHereticX 02-01-08, 07:53 PM	There's also a Webspace, for the spacefaring Drow. :D I woudn't trust that connectio. The Demonweb has notoriously bad service.;) And the religious spam...ugh