tolas good preists good or both>>>>><<<< [Archive] - Wizards Community

tolas good preists good or both>>>>><<<< [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
redmagefish
03-29-07, 05:06 PM talos slightly good >>>>>><<<<<< in the house of the serpent the main char meets with a talos temlpe take over by yuan ti he frees them and the high priest shots lava on all of the yuan ti and than says some thing to the main char. some thing like poeple think all of the talos preists are evil. so does this mean talos has a unknow side or just some goodly priests.
Mr.Sinister
03-29-07, 06:40 PM Talos has Chaotic Neutral priests.
Could have been one of them, whom on a whim decided to help the character, but he could as easily have helped the Yuan-ti also if he deemed it useful to him....

Or maybe that slaying the Yuan-ti seemed to him like some kind of rebellion (one of Talos portfolios), and he decided to act.

Just my 2cp, but I think Talos will always be evil, although in the selfish 'I don't care if what I do hurts others' sense..
Lord Karsus
03-29-07, 06:57 PM -In theory, Talos has some redeeming qualities. All of his destruction perpetuates renewal. For example, his destructive thunder storms start forest fires, which burn down miles and miles of woodlands. The ash and what not acts as fertilizer for the new trees that grow in it's place.
redmagefish
03-29-07, 09:21 PM :dragon: :ghosted: :ghosted: :ghosted: :ghosted: i firgured but i did what your ideas
Yxunomei
03-29-07, 09:56 PM Like someone said before, Talos has chaotic neutral priests. But any goodly actions are usually just a product of their capricious whim.

Talos himself is chaotic evil, and he really doesn't have that much regard for others. Needless to say, he's worn down the powers of Umberlee and Auril in his own power scheming.

However, I don't see Talos as really being evil. I see him more of just being the personification of a natural phenomenon, and if one remembers how he was actually created, that's pretty much exactly what he is. Whether one is good or bad, one will contribute to Talos' destructive portfolio when waging war, destroying evil or anything violent.
redmagefish
03-30-07, 06:56 AM well talos never really ruins any thing like the burned forest is put out by his rain and the ash grows new trees and it happens again i would say its just his job.
Lord Karsus
03-30-07, 10:08 AM well talos never really ruins any thing like the burned forest is put out by his rain and the ash grows new trees and it happens again i would say its just his job.

-But it's a good thing, in theory, is it not?
redmagefish
03-30-07, 03:39 PM yes and would talos take a lizard men (or folk) as a priest i think he would but i wanted to know for sure.
redmagefish
03-30-07, 03:48 PM he does hate the lich and beast lord so thats a start
Vasyek
03-30-07, 06:59 PM -In theory, Talos has some redeeming qualities. All of his destruction perpetuates renewal.

That's because because Lathander intercedes to salvage what he may from the ruins, and needless to say, this accounts for most if not all of the animosity between the two. Nothing in his description or relationships really indicates any interest on his part in working his destruction to the tune of new beginnings.

To be honest, I don't even see his chaotic neutral clergy as being the sort to promote this view of Talos/his portfolio, given how starkly it clashes with the creed of fatalism and supplication/extortion. Which is not to say that it wouldn't make a good heresy, but I suspect it would anger both Talos and Lathander.

Nor do I particularly see he's in any way absolved by his origins. Sure, if he wreaked destruction on pure, heedless instinct, then it'd be another store. Alas, he willfully and eagerly plies his trade, he is described as being driven by rage and an aversion to the display or even implication of weakness on his part. There's also the matter of his greed and ambition, which a more primordial incarnation of nature's destructive aspect would have no use for: his interest in usurping the portfolios of other deities, as well as his relatively indirect approach to attempting so in the cases of Mystra and Beshaba, and the whole protect-racket angle he/his clergy have going are both too worldly and human to qualify him for the lack of accountability that being a pure, elemental expression of the forces under his sway would otherwise grant.

If there's anything particularly redeeming about Talos' personality/behavior, as opposed to the limitations of and obstructions to his power, it is that he doesn't appear to harbor any of the truly damning intentions that his peers do. Domination and pre-eminence are bad enough in the cases of beings like these, and Talos certainly desires them, but the undercurrents of these goals are far worse in many cases. Take Bane, who seeks to erase all memory of hope or freedom, or Cyric, who would similarly dissolve all traces of altruism or community, or Shar, who would simply annihilate everything.

Talos doesn't have those hang-ups, as far as I can tell. As long as he can cause random destruction here and there, he doesn't have any expressed interest in leveling it all. Indeed, his willingness to stay his hand when mortals appeal to his vanity suggests, to me at least, that he finds their panic and desperation to be more gratifying than their destruction.
redmagefish
03-30-07, 08:20 PM he would have to help fix his wrath or what would he kill burned forest.as more ruling the world and hate and wrath look at mystra or any other good they all hate there fellow gods good or bad.he hates alot of good gods but hates at least to of his underpowers.his priests i can see being both good and evil.but nuentral fits the best think if a strom hits a city the city is ruined it could be waterdeep or zent keep does he care does his priests care i do not think so.i also see them being a little more evil but some are must likly
nuentral. and would he have a lizard priest.

:dragon: :ghosted: :ghosted: :ghosted: :ghosted: :ghosted: :ghosted: :ghosted:
Lord Karsus
03-30-07, 11:43 PM he does hate the lich and beast lord so thats a start

-He has his own personal reasons for that, though.

To be honest, I don't even see his chaotic neutral clergy as being the sort to promote this view of Talos/his portfolio, given how starkly it clashes with the creed of fatalism and supplication/extortion. Which is not to say that it wouldn't make a good heresy, but I suspect it would anger both Talos and Lathander.

-Hmm, I like that- A heresy concerning the cycle of destruction, rebirth and renewal concerning Chauntea, Lathander and Talos.
redmagefish
03-31-07, 09:56 AM i think it makes sense and who cares if he hates the beast and lich lord for his reasons he still would must likly kill them if he could.he is not carzy he does not what to kill the realms ....... just the moon not as bad a bane.
Lord Karsus
03-31-07, 06:01 PM i think it makes sense and who cares if he hates the beast and lich lord for his reasons he still would must likly kill them if he could.

-The only reason why he is enemies with Velsharoon is because he was going to use ol' bag-of-bones as a "battery", sucking away his divine energy. Had Velsharoon not gone running to Azuth and Mystra, Talos would have no problem with Velsharoon, assuming that he didn't go running off to anyone else.
redmagefish
04-01-07, 07:27 AM but still it gives him a uper hand in the gods tyr hoar and the other one would kill the lich lord before the strom lord. i think the goody drow hates him for tring to kill out of her power (the moon)
Ramar Aulinvox
04-02-07, 10:15 PM Just to throw my two cents in, Talonian priests have one yearly custom that makes me remember that they all are a little crazy. Once per year they either suit up in as much armor as the can or go in robes and attack a random settlement/camp that will give some resistance. If they wear armor, then they can only use physical weapons. If they wear robes, then they can only use destructive magic. It is this custom that gets the cleregy all of its bad press.

One of the reasons that Talos wants Velsharoon is that Talos has been trying to steal Mystra's portfolio for some time. His incarnation as Malyk the drow god of wild magic is another way that he has gone about this.
Other incarnations of Talos are/were Khozah (Netheril; pretty much the same) and Bhealros (Calimshan; destructive power of genies). In all of his incarnations he revels in the destruction of anything natural or man-made. I would call this evil.
However, there is something to be said about why people worship him. While there are a few people who worship him for the power to destroy things, most (like the characters in House of Serpents) worship Talos so that he will be appeased and not strike down them or one's they care about. An important note that should be considered is that most humans don't consider themselves to be evil no matter what they do; cognitive dissonance knows no bounds. I hope that helps with your question.
ShadezofDis
04-02-07, 11:28 PM That's because because Lathander intercedes to salvage what he may from the ruins... Indeed, his willingness to stay his hand when mortals appeal to his vanity suggests, to me at least, that he finds their panic and desperation to be more gratifying than their destruction.

I would definitely agree with everything you said, except for the moral condeming of Talos, I'm of the opinion that Landather and his war need to happen and of either god I'm more scared Landather is going to tip the balance in an unacceptable manner.
redmagefish
04-03-07, 07:23 AM i must say tolas would do the weave better than mytra
ShadezofDis
04-03-07, 10:18 AM i must say tolas would do the weave better than mytra

And you would almost certainly be incorrect.

Unless you are saying that such an event would entertain you more, that may very well be true. Toril would be in for a horrendous beating and likely a godswar.
Ramar Aulinvox
04-03-07, 10:18 AM i must say tolas would do the weave better than mytra

See the novel Crucibal: Trial of Cyric the Mad for a picture of what would happen if Talos controlled the weave.

Also, I should modify my earlier statement. I did some reading last night and it appears that the majority of Talos' cleregy are the psychotic, want-to-destroy-everything types and the minority are the "I want to spare the people" types. So there are the ones that want to do some good (probably thinking of themselves as good) and the rest are lunatics RPP-ing for the glory of Talos. Either way, most of them are CE (one can do good things and be chaotic evil [see Jarlaxle character of R.A. Salvatore's] [Maxim: good people do bad things; bad people do good things; bad people do bad things; good people do good things; therefore, one needs to look beyond a single transaction to find the virtue within another.]).
redmagefish
04-03-07, 07:01 PM bane with the weave now that would rock

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
redmagefish 03-29-07, 05:06 PM	talos slightly good >>>>>><<<<<< in the house of the serpent the main char meets with a talos temlpe take over by yuan ti he frees them and the high priest shots lava on all of the yuan ti and than says some thing to the main char. some thing like poeple think all of the talos preists are evil. so does this mean talos has a unknow side or just some goodly priests.
Mr.Sinister 03-29-07, 06:40 PM	Talos has Chaotic Neutral priests. Could have been one of them, whom on a whim decided to help the character, but he could as easily have helped the Yuan-ti also if he deemed it useful to him.... Or maybe that slaying the Yuan-ti seemed to him like some kind of rebellion (one of Talos portfolios), and he decided to act. Just my 2cp, but I think Talos will always be evil, although in the selfish 'I don't care if what I do hurts others' sense..
Lord Karsus 03-29-07, 06:57 PM	-In theory, Talos has some redeeming qualities. All of his destruction perpetuates renewal. For example, his destructive thunder storms start forest fires, which burn down miles and miles of woodlands. The ash and what not acts as fertilizer for the new trees that grow in it's place.
redmagefish 03-29-07, 09:21 PM	:dragon: :ghosted: :ghosted: :ghosted: :ghosted: i firgured but i did what your ideas
Yxunomei 03-29-07, 09:56 PM	Like someone said before, Talos has chaotic neutral priests. But any goodly actions are usually just a product of their capricious whim. Talos himself is chaotic evil, and he really doesn't have that much regard for others. Needless to say, he's worn down the powers of Umberlee and Auril in his own power scheming. However, I don't see Talos as really being evil. I see him more of just being the personification of a natural phenomenon, and if one remembers how he was actually created, that's pretty much exactly what he is. Whether one is good or bad, one will contribute to Talos' destructive portfolio when waging war, destroying evil or anything violent.
redmagefish 03-30-07, 06:56 AM	well talos never really ruins any thing like the burned forest is put out by his rain and the ash grows new trees and it happens again i would say its just his job.
Lord Karsus 03-30-07, 10:08 AM	well talos never really ruins any thing like the burned forest is put out by his rain and the ash grows new trees and it happens again i would say its just his job. -But it's a good thing, in theory, is it not?
redmagefish 03-30-07, 03:39 PM	yes and would talos take a lizard men (or folk) as a priest i think he would but i wanted to know for sure.
redmagefish 03-30-07, 03:48 PM	he does hate the lich and beast lord so thats a start
Vasyek 03-30-07, 06:59 PM	-In theory, Talos has some redeeming qualities. All of his destruction perpetuates renewal. That's because because Lathander intercedes to salvage what he may from the ruins, and needless to say, this accounts for most if not all of the animosity between the two. Nothing in his description or relationships really indicates any interest on his part in working his destruction to the tune of new beginnings. To be honest, I don't even see his chaotic neutral clergy as being the sort to promote this view of Talos/his portfolio, given how starkly it clashes with the creed of fatalism and supplication/extortion. Which is not to say that it wouldn't make a good heresy, but I suspect it would anger both Talos and Lathander. Nor do I particularly see he's in any way absolved by his origins. Sure, if he wreaked destruction on pure, heedless instinct, then it'd be another store. Alas, he willfully and eagerly plies his trade, he is described as being driven by rage and an aversion to the display or even implication of weakness on his part. There's also the matter of his greed and ambition, which a more primordial incarnation of nature's destructive aspect would have no use for: his interest in usurping the portfolios of other deities, as well as his relatively indirect approach to attempting so in the cases of Mystra and Beshaba, and the whole protect-racket angle he/his clergy have going are both too worldly and human to qualify him for the lack of accountability that being a pure, elemental expression of the forces under his sway would otherwise grant. If there's anything particularly redeeming about Talos' personality/behavior, as opposed to the limitations of and obstructions to his power, it is that he doesn't appear to harbor any of the truly damning intentions that his peers do. Domination and pre-eminence are bad enough in the cases of beings like these, and Talos certainly desires them, but the undercurrents of these goals are far worse in many cases. Take Bane, who seeks to erase all memory of hope or freedom, or Cyric, who would similarly dissolve all traces of altruism or community, or Shar, who would simply annihilate everything. Talos doesn't have those hang-ups, as far as I can tell. As long as he can cause random destruction here and there, he doesn't have any expressed interest in leveling it all. Indeed, his willingness to stay his hand when mortals appeal to his vanity suggests, to me at least, that he finds their panic and desperation to be more gratifying than their destruction.
redmagefish 03-30-07, 08:20 PM	he would have to help fix his wrath or what would he kill burned forest.as more ruling the world and hate and wrath look at mystra or any other good they all hate there fellow gods good or bad.he hates alot of good gods but hates at least to of his underpowers.his priests i can see being both good and evil.but nuentral fits the best think if a strom hits a city the city is ruined it could be waterdeep or zent keep does he care does his priests care i do not think so.i also see them being a little more evil but some are must likly nuentral. and would he have a lizard priest. :dragon: :ghosted: :ghosted: :ghosted: :ghosted: :ghosted: :ghosted: :ghosted:
Lord Karsus 03-30-07, 11:43 PM	he does hate the lich and beast lord so thats a start -He has his own personal reasons for that, though. To be honest, I don't even see his chaotic neutral clergy as being the sort to promote this view of Talos/his portfolio, given how starkly it clashes with the creed of fatalism and supplication/extortion. Which is not to say that it wouldn't make a good heresy, but I suspect it would anger both Talos and Lathander. -Hmm, I like that- A heresy concerning the cycle of destruction, rebirth and renewal concerning Chauntea, Lathander and Talos.
redmagefish 03-31-07, 09:56 AM	i think it makes sense and who cares if he hates the beast and lich lord for his reasons he still would must likly kill them if he could.he is not carzy he does not what to kill the realms ....... just the moon not as bad a bane.
Lord Karsus 03-31-07, 06:01 PM	i think it makes sense and who cares if he hates the beast and lich lord for his reasons he still would must likly kill them if he could. -The only reason why he is enemies with Velsharoon is because he was going to use ol' bag-of-bones as a "battery", sucking away his divine energy. Had Velsharoon not gone running to Azuth and Mystra, Talos would have no problem with Velsharoon, assuming that he didn't go running off to anyone else.
redmagefish 04-01-07, 07:27 AM	but still it gives him a uper hand in the gods tyr hoar and the other one would kill the lich lord before the strom lord. i think the goody drow hates him for tring to kill out of her power (the moon)
Ramar Aulinvox 04-02-07, 10:15 PM	Just to throw my two cents in, Talonian priests have one yearly custom that makes me remember that they all are a little crazy. Once per year they either suit up in as much armor as the can or go in robes and attack a random settlement/camp that will give some resistance. If they wear armor, then they can only use physical weapons. If they wear robes, then they can only use destructive magic. It is this custom that gets the cleregy all of its bad press. One of the reasons that Talos wants Velsharoon is that Talos has been trying to steal Mystra's portfolio for some time. His incarnation as Malyk the drow god of wild magic is another way that he has gone about this. Other incarnations of Talos are/were Khozah (Netheril; pretty much the same) and Bhealros (Calimshan; destructive power of genies). In all of his incarnations he revels in the destruction of anything natural or man-made. I would call this evil. However, there is something to be said about why people worship him. While there are a few people who worship him for the power to destroy things, most (like the characters in House of Serpents) worship Talos so that he will be appeased and not strike down them or one's they care about. An important note that should be considered is that most humans don't consider themselves to be evil no matter what they do; cognitive dissonance knows no bounds. I hope that helps with your question.
ShadezofDis 04-02-07, 11:28 PM	That's because because Lathander intercedes to salvage what he may from the ruins... Indeed, his willingness to stay his hand when mortals appeal to his vanity suggests, to me at least, that he finds their panic and desperation to be more gratifying than their destruction. I would definitely agree with everything you said, except for the moral condeming of Talos, I'm of the opinion that Landather and his war need to happen and of either god I'm more scared Landather is going to tip the balance in an unacceptable manner.
redmagefish 04-03-07, 07:23 AM	i must say tolas would do the weave better than mytra
ShadezofDis 04-03-07, 10:18 AM	i must say tolas would do the weave better than mytra And you would almost certainly be incorrect. Unless you are saying that such an event would entertain you more, that may very well be true. Toril would be in for a horrendous beating and likely a godswar.
Ramar Aulinvox 04-03-07, 10:18 AM	i must say tolas would do the weave better than mytra See the novel Crucibal: Trial of Cyric the Mad for a picture of what would happen if Talos controlled the weave. Also, I should modify my earlier statement. I did some reading last night and it appears that the majority of Talos' cleregy are the psychotic, want-to-destroy-everything types and the minority are the "I want to spare the people" types. So there are the ones that want to do some good (probably thinking of themselves as good) and the rest are lunatics RPP-ing for the glory of Talos. Either way, most of them are CE (one can do good things and be chaotic evil [see Jarlaxle character of R.A. Salvatore's] [Maxim: good people do bad things; bad people do good things; bad people do bad things; good people do good things; therefore, one needs to look beyond a single transaction to find the virtue within another.]).
redmagefish 04-03-07, 07:01 PM	bane with the weave now that would rock