Unarmored fighter [Archive] - Wizards Community

Unarmored fighter [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Burningspear
04-04-07, 01:02 AM If i wanted to play unarmored, would i have to go Monk - Duelist combo to max it out?,
would that be the only way to be able to be on par with any armored fighters?

My main problem is that i don't agree with the fact that "all" duelist's would only fight with light weapons and therefore the feat restrictions of the class are not correct imo.
Lady_Mhaor
04-04-07, 01:03 AM well there are rogues with high dex that can have higher ac ratings then monks or fighters of the same level if thats what your looking for
bloodtalon
04-04-07, 09:39 AM a swashbuckler or a bard would be nice too
Dr_Tough
04-04-07, 10:22 AM My main problem is that i don't agree with the fact that "all" duelist's would only fight with light weapons and therefore the feat restrictions of the class are not correct imo.

What weapon were you thinking about taking for your duelist?
Burningspear
04-04-07, 10:48 AM What weapon were you thinking about taking for your duelist?

:hides: A 2 handed large weapon... :plotting:
either a Hammer or a Morningstar
Dr_Tough
04-04-07, 11:41 AM :hides: A 2 handed large weapon... :plotting:
either a Hammer or a Morningstar

Uhhhh, a duelist is supposed to be a fencer type person. Like in The Three Musketeers.

>_>
Lady_Mhaor
04-04-07, 12:06 PM Don't duelist have to wield rapiers?
ShadezofDis
04-04-07, 12:09 PM Uhhhh, a duelist is supposed to be a fencer type person. Like in The Three Musketeers.

>_>

I'm gonna have to agree with the good Doctor here, duelist isn't an inclusive "anyone who could get into a duel" or "someone who specializes in one on one combat" it is a much more "fencer" type class.

And really. . . two handed weapons aren't good for mobility and when you are unarmored mobility is your friend. (of course there are the unarmored types who don't go for mobility, ie. classic barbarian, but since you seem to be interested in maxing out I can't imagine you'd be into such a theme)
Burningspear
04-04-07, 12:19 PM Uhhhh, a duelist is supposed to be a fencer type person. Like in The Three Musketeers.

>_>

How rude, and how absolutely stereotype, so sad...:ahem: :yuck: :tie: :duel: :uh-huh:
Dr_Tough
04-04-07, 12:19 PM Don't duelist have to wield rapiers?

One of the prerequisites is Weapon Focus: Rapier, however, I'm sure one could substitute another proper one handed weapon. A scimitar or longsword wouldn't be out of line, in my opinion.
Burningspear
04-04-07, 12:34 PM One of the prerequisites is Weapon Focus: Rapier, however, I'm sure one could substitute another proper one handed weapon. A scimitar or longsword wouldn't be out of line, in my opinion.

Wrong :plotting:, they need:
Dodge, Mobility and Weapon finesse...
ShadezofDis
04-04-07, 12:39 PM How rude, and how absolutely stereotype, so sad...:ahem: :yuck: :tie: :duel: :uh-huh:

Ummm. . . how is the truth rude?

And yes, it is a stereotype. . . that's why it got a class. . . fantasy stereotypes are what creates the classes we use (generally speaking). . .

so. . . I'm sorry this class isn't what you were looking for :)
Burningspear
04-04-07, 01:01 PM the class is actually what i am looking for, but the way u guys interpret it is not :P
Burningspear
04-04-07, 01:04 PM I'm gonna have to agree with the good Doctor here, duelist isn't an inclusive "anyone who could get into a duel" or "someone who specializes in one on one combat" it is a much more "fencer" type class.

And really. . . two handed weapons aren't good for mobility and when you are unarmored mobility is your friend. (of course there are the unarmored types who don't go for mobility, ie. classic barbarian, but since you seem to be interested in maxing out I can't imagine you'd be into such a theme)

I see the slow weapon being handled by a fast person, that is, he "dances" around his own weapon and moves with it, instead of it moving with him...
So i can see a Duelist using a hammer or morningstar, not as subtle as a rapier, so no finesse, on the weapon itself, but all the rest is applicable..
Dr_Tough
04-04-07, 01:13 PM Wrong :plotting:, they need:
Dodge, Mobility and Weapon finesse...

I just looked it up in Sword and Fist and that's what it said, unless there is an updated version I'm not aware of.
ShadezofDis
04-04-07, 01:22 PM I just looked it up in Sword and Fist and that's what it said, unless there is an updated version I'm not aware of.

He's most likely talking about the DMG version of the PrC :)

I see the slow weapon being handled by a fast person, that is, he "dances" around his own weapon and moves with it, instead of it moving with him...
So i can see a Duelist using a hammer or morningstar, not as subtle as a rapier, so no finesse, on the weapon itself, but all the rest is applicable..

Alright, we'll go slow here;
-One of the prerequisites of the class is the feat weapon finesse.

-Weapon finesse only works with light weapons.

-Most of the flavor of a duelist is the duelists mobility and thier precision with thier weapons (hence Weapon finesse)

-All of a duelists class abilities focus around their ability to move quickly and strike quicker.

In no way shape or form does this fit with fighting with a two handed weapon, if you really want to do this and find a DM that will let you then that's great, I don't think you'll find many people who would agree with your view of the Duelist class.

It seems a lot like trying to make a Elven Red Wizard.
Dr_Tough
04-04-07, 01:39 PM He's most likely talking about the DMG version of the PrC :)

Oh, well, I'm still slogging along with my 3.0 DMG...

>_>
ShadezofDis
04-04-07, 01:41 PM Oh, well, I'm still slogging along with my 3.0 DMG...

>_>

That'd explain it, but the required feats still include Weapon Finesse, which works as well to counter the "two handed weapons should be allowed" argument. :D
Burningspear
04-05-07, 07:09 PM He's most likely talking about the DMG version of the PrC :)

Yes i was :D

Alright, we'll go slow here;
-One of the prerequisites of the class is the feat weapon finesse.
-Weapon finesse only works with light weapons.
-Most of the flavor of a duelist is the duelists mobility and their precision with their weapons (hence Weapon finesse)
-All of a duelists class abilities focus around their ability to move quickly and strike quicker.
In no way shape or form does this fit with fighting with a two handed weapon, if you really want to do this and find a DM that will let you then that's great, I don't think you'll find many people who would agree with your view of the Duelist class.

Very nice for your flavor, but,
It says u need the weapon finesse for the offensive light weaponed abilities, i will be going to 3rd level to gain the +3 int based ac, but i will not often use the ability itself.
As i said in a previous statement :tie: : the character will be using his mobility and all for himself, but not the weapon. it only means he will not use the precision to guide his 2handed hammer, but that is not a requisite for the whole class to work anyway.
(i know its a weird combination, but is just what i like about it, i see him as swirling the Hammer around (horizontally and vertically..) and dancing his way around the weapon and the target
Burningspear
04-05-07, 07:12 PM i seemed to have lost this thread, so i posted one in the weapons, armor and combat section, with how i would build up my character... just to let u know :plotting:
Armedes
04-12-07, 08:43 AM Two-handed Weapon with a Duelist.. Elven Court Blade.. its a 2-hander that allows for Weapon Finesse..
Marcus Majarra
04-16-07, 03:49 AM A monk/duelist works quite well, especially with the Carmendine Monk feat. He can fare well unarmored, and can capitalize on duelist abilities by using a piercing flurry weapon (like the sai) or by taking the Versatile Unarmed Strike feat. The latter feat should compensate for the loss of damage output for the unarmed strike that you forego with the loss of monk levels.

A good build 20-level build would be Monk 6 / Shou Disciple 5 / Fighter 2 / Duelist 7. You get a highly skilled character, with enough feats to make unarmed combat worthwhile, and you can fare most well without wearing any sort of armor. You can manage a good AC, with a reasonable Int 24 and Dex 20. While fighting defensively, your AC becomes 43 (+5 from Dex 20, +8 from Int 24 and 5 monk levels, +7 from Int 24 and 7 duelist levels, +3 from shou disciple levels, and +10 from fighting defensively with 7 duelist levels and 5+ ranks in Tumble), and this is both your touch AC and your actual AC (flat-footed, you're at a respectable 25). Martial flurry allows you to enjoy your great flurry ability with your typical duelist weapon: the rapier.

All in all, it's a very workable build. If you're willing to sacrifice either your greater flurry or your elaborate parry, you can even fit some swashbuckler levels in there to add your Int to damage (think Monk 4 / Swashbuckler 3 / Shou Disciple 5 / Fighter 1 / Duelist 7).
Burningspear
04-16-07, 09:22 PM Two-handed Weapon with a Duelist.. Elven Court Blade.. its a 2-hander that allows for Weapon Finesse..

thats just weird to me :tie:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Burningspear 04-04-07, 01:02 AM	If i wanted to play unarmored, would i have to go Monk - Duelist combo to max it out?, would that be the only way to be able to be on par with any armored fighters? My main problem is that i don't agree with the fact that "all" duelist's would only fight with light weapons and therefore the feat restrictions of the class are not correct imo.
Lady_Mhaor 04-04-07, 01:03 AM	well there are rogues with high dex that can have higher ac ratings then monks or fighters of the same level if thats what your looking for
bloodtalon 04-04-07, 09:39 AM	a swashbuckler or a bard would be nice too
Dr_Tough 04-04-07, 10:22 AM	My main problem is that i don't agree with the fact that "all" duelist's would only fight with light weapons and therefore the feat restrictions of the class are not correct imo. What weapon were you thinking about taking for your duelist?
Burningspear 04-04-07, 10:48 AM	What weapon were you thinking about taking for your duelist? :hides: A 2 handed large weapon... :plotting: either a Hammer or a Morningstar
Dr_Tough 04-04-07, 11:41 AM	:hides: A 2 handed large weapon... :plotting: either a Hammer or a Morningstar Uhhhh, a duelist is supposed to be a fencer type person. Like in The Three Musketeers. >_>
Lady_Mhaor 04-04-07, 12:06 PM	Don't duelist have to wield rapiers?
ShadezofDis 04-04-07, 12:09 PM	Uhhhh, a duelist is supposed to be a fencer type person. Like in The Three Musketeers. >_> I'm gonna have to agree with the good Doctor here, duelist isn't an inclusive "anyone who could get into a duel" or "someone who specializes in one on one combat" it is a much more "fencer" type class. And really. . . two handed weapons aren't good for mobility and when you are unarmored mobility is your friend. (of course there are the unarmored types who don't go for mobility, ie. classic barbarian, but since you seem to be interested in maxing out I can't imagine you'd be into such a theme)
Burningspear 04-04-07, 12:19 PM	Uhhhh, a duelist is supposed to be a fencer type person. Like in The Three Musketeers. >_> How rude, and how absolutely stereotype, so sad...:ahem: :yuck: :tie: :duel: :uh-huh:
Dr_Tough 04-04-07, 12:19 PM	Don't duelist have to wield rapiers? One of the prerequisites is Weapon Focus: Rapier, however, I'm sure one could substitute another proper one handed weapon. A scimitar or longsword wouldn't be out of line, in my opinion.
Burningspear 04-04-07, 12:34 PM	One of the prerequisites is Weapon Focus: Rapier, however, I'm sure one could substitute another proper one handed weapon. A scimitar or longsword wouldn't be out of line, in my opinion. Wrong :plotting:, they need: Dodge, Mobility and Weapon finesse...
ShadezofDis 04-04-07, 12:39 PM	How rude, and how absolutely stereotype, so sad...:ahem: :yuck: :tie: :duel: :uh-huh: Ummm. . . how is the truth rude? And yes, it is a stereotype. . . that's why it got a class. . . fantasy stereotypes are what creates the classes we use (generally speaking). . . so. . . I'm sorry this class isn't what you were looking for :)
Burningspear 04-04-07, 01:01 PM	the class is actually what i am looking for, but the way u guys interpret it is not :P
Burningspear 04-04-07, 01:04 PM	I'm gonna have to agree with the good Doctor here, duelist isn't an inclusive "anyone who could get into a duel" or "someone who specializes in one on one combat" it is a much more "fencer" type class. And really. . . two handed weapons aren't good for mobility and when you are unarmored mobility is your friend. (of course there are the unarmored types who don't go for mobility, ie. classic barbarian, but since you seem to be interested in maxing out I can't imagine you'd be into such a theme) I see the slow weapon being handled by a fast person, that is, he "dances" around his own weapon and moves with it, instead of it moving with him... So i can see a Duelist using a hammer or morningstar, not as subtle as a rapier, so no finesse, on the weapon itself, but all the rest is applicable..
Dr_Tough 04-04-07, 01:13 PM	Wrong :plotting:, they need: Dodge, Mobility and Weapon finesse... I just looked it up in Sword and Fist and that's what it said, unless there is an updated version I'm not aware of.
ShadezofDis 04-04-07, 01:22 PM	I just looked it up in Sword and Fist and that's what it said, unless there is an updated version I'm not aware of. He's most likely talking about the DMG version of the PrC :) I see the slow weapon being handled by a fast person, that is, he "dances" around his own weapon and moves with it, instead of it moving with him... So i can see a Duelist using a hammer or morningstar, not as subtle as a rapier, so no finesse, on the weapon itself, but all the rest is applicable.. Alright, we'll go slow here; -One of the prerequisites of the class is the feat weapon finesse. -Weapon finesse only works with light weapons. -Most of the flavor of a duelist is the duelists mobility and thier precision with thier weapons (hence Weapon finesse) -All of a duelists class abilities focus around their ability to move quickly and strike quicker. In no way shape or form does this fit with fighting with a two handed weapon, if you really want to do this and find a DM that will let you then that's great, I don't think you'll find many people who would agree with your view of the Duelist class. It seems a lot like trying to make a Elven Red Wizard.
Dr_Tough 04-04-07, 01:39 PM	He's most likely talking about the DMG version of the PrC :) Oh, well, I'm still slogging along with my 3.0 DMG... >_>
ShadezofDis 04-04-07, 01:41 PM	Oh, well, I'm still slogging along with my 3.0 DMG... >_> That'd explain it, but the required feats still include Weapon Finesse, which works as well to counter the "two handed weapons should be allowed" argument. :D
Burningspear 04-05-07, 07:09 PM	He's most likely talking about the DMG version of the PrC :) Yes i was :D Alright, we'll go slow here; -One of the prerequisites of the class is the feat weapon finesse. -Weapon finesse only works with light weapons. -Most of the flavor of a duelist is the duelists mobility and their precision with their weapons (hence Weapon finesse) -All of a duelists class abilities focus around their ability to move quickly and strike quicker. In no way shape or form does this fit with fighting with a two handed weapon, if you really want to do this and find a DM that will let you then that's great, I don't think you'll find many people who would agree with your view of the Duelist class. Very nice for your flavor, but, It says u need the weapon finesse for the offensive light weaponed abilities, i will be going to 3rd level to gain the +3 int based ac, but i will not often use the ability itself. As i said in a previous statement :tie: : the character will be using his mobility and all for himself, but not the weapon. it only means he will not use the precision to guide his 2handed hammer, but that is not a requisite for the whole class to work anyway. (i know its a weird combination, but is just what i like about it, i see him as swirling the Hammer around (horizontally and vertically..) and dancing his way around the weapon and the target
Burningspear 04-05-07, 07:12 PM	i seemed to have lost this thread, so i posted one in the weapons, armor and combat section, with how i would build up my character... just to let u know :plotting:
Armedes 04-12-07, 08:43 AM	Two-handed Weapon with a Duelist.. Elven Court Blade.. its a 2-hander that allows for Weapon Finesse..
Marcus Majarra 04-16-07, 03:49 AM	A monk/duelist works quite well, especially with the Carmendine Monk feat. He can fare well unarmored, and can capitalize on duelist abilities by using a piercing flurry weapon (like the sai) or by taking the Versatile Unarmed Strike feat. The latter feat should compensate for the loss of damage output for the unarmed strike that you forego with the loss of monk levels. A good build 20-level build would be Monk 6 / Shou Disciple 5 / Fighter 2 / Duelist 7. You get a highly skilled character, with enough feats to make unarmed combat worthwhile, and you can fare most well without wearing any sort of armor. You can manage a good AC, with a reasonable Int 24 and Dex 20. While fighting defensively, your AC becomes 43 (+5 from Dex 20, +8 from Int 24 and 5 monk levels, +7 from Int 24 and 7 duelist levels, +3 from shou disciple levels, and +10 from fighting defensively with 7 duelist levels and 5+ ranks in Tumble), and this is both your touch AC and your actual AC (flat-footed, you're at a respectable 25). Martial flurry allows you to enjoy your great flurry ability with your typical duelist weapon: the rapier. All in all, it's a very workable build. If you're willing to sacrifice either your greater flurry or your elaborate parry, you can even fit some swashbuckler levels in there to add your Int to damage (think Monk 4 / Swashbuckler 3 / Shou Disciple 5 / Fighter 1 / Duelist 7).
Burningspear 04-16-07, 09:22 PM	Two-handed Weapon with a Duelist.. Elven Court Blade.. its a 2-hander that allows for Weapon Finesse.. thats just weird to me :tie: