Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Stigger 03-16-07, 02:49 AM	So... yeah... during a coffee and sugar induced bit of contemplation, I came up with this little toy for your consideration: Light Crossbow +1 with the Quick-Loading (holds 100 bolts extradimensionally, reload as free action for full attack rate use, +2)special ability. Then you add in a small metal tube, bolted onto the underside of the crossbow with a sliding sleeve that allows something like a chardalyn (taken from the 2e mention from Volo's Guide to the North since I'm not aware of a 3e reference to them) to be loaded into it, and then hurled out with a 30' range increment. The basic premise behind it is a Gust of Wind spell modified so that it just hurls things stuck into its breech out of the tube, and maybe something that makes sure the ammo doesn't detonate inside of the tube itself, nothing more fancy than that. I figure this is worth a +1, since it's not really doing that much, magically speaking. So altogether this comes out to a +4 weapon (possibly +5 if you don't like the +1 for the grenade launcher part), which is more than doable. Not easy, certainly not cheap, and not all that easy to get ammunition for the second part of it, but conceivably possible... essentially a realms version of an assualt rifle with a grenade launcher attachment. So... I know it's not really thematic with the Realms, it certainly isn't fantasy-oriented, and could be considered powergaming by some, but all of that aside, just as a concept of what is possible, would it work, and would you actually allow some player to make one in a game?
rolig 03-16-07, 06:11 AM	Hehe, Id' say i really like this crossbow:D
Karsus the Mad 03-16-07, 06:26 AM	I'd allow it. In fact I have something similar invented by a gnome mage who lived in Netheril who created a chardalyn launcher:P The premise was a chardalyn enspelled with gust of wind, and another one enspelled with something like fireball or chain lightning, etc. The idea was that when the trigger was pulled, a spring loaded hammer would crush the gust of wind enspelled chardalyn, launching the other one out the barrel. I also made a chardalyn "cannister" launcher:P Pack a bunch of chardalyn in a metal can, each enspelled with fireball, chainlightning, acid fog, etc. Mass destruction of troop formations that was:D Oh, you can find Chardalyn in 3.0 Lords of Darkness:) It might not be too doable nowadays since they're a minor artifact now...no clue why. However, you can make ammunition for it easily by making them a variant type of scroll or potion, who's trigger is impact. Oh, for the tube, I'd make it a seperate magic item (wondrous?) that can utilize the launch item spell. That way you could plop in say...alchemical fire bottles and launch them:D In fact, I think I'll use that idea...
Stigger 03-16-07, 06:29 AM	Minor artifact... from just being rocks you tripped over in 2e... to minor artifacts... the mind reels. Interesting idea on the cannisters though... could be a good analog for cluster munitions dropped from carpet/broom flying wizards. :D
Karsus the Mad 03-16-07, 06:39 AM	Minor artifact... from just being rocks you tripped over in 2e... to minor artifacts... the mind reels. I'd ignore the artifact part tho'...doesn't make much sense. They're naturally occuring rocks, I see no reason why they wouldn't still be naturally occuring, unless the Fall had something to do about it. Interesting idea on the cannisters though... could be a good analog for cluster munitions dropped from carpet/broom flying wizards. :D Heh, a litteral meaning of the term "carpet bombing". Oddly, I see Halruaa having something similar with their airships. It'd be exceptionally devastating to an army, especially given how tightly packed the ranks would be. Ouch.
Stigger 03-16-07, 06:54 AM	Damn... missed that pun. Actually, taking that Halruaa idea a bit farther, just think of an oversized airship carrying a squadron or two of carpet/broom riding wizards carrying a few of those cannisters, and a wand or three each. Halruaan equivalent of an carrier with a couple of attack squadrons. Arm them with one of those crossbows and you could have very potent strike force from just one skyship... ignoring the whole cost part. :D
Karsus the Mad 03-16-07, 07:07 AM	Throw in a few Thayan bombards onto the skyship and voila!:devil: Make those repeating crossbow bolts tipped with a small vial of alchemist fire and even better! thwump thwump thwump.....boom boom boom in 10 ft. radi! You wouldn't even have to aim, just point and launch:D Ahhh, the havoc! All of it would be expensive, but come on!:D Worried of return fire? Wind Wall:P And you don't have to worry much about the other side using wind wall, since if they use it, the rounds are still hitting somewhere within their ranks.
Stigger 03-16-07, 08:17 AM	Not sure about the bombards... that much smoke powder on board seems a liability, but I like the rest quite a bit. Only thing you'd really have to worry about would be reverse arrows, but that would only go so far, and not all that effective against a moving source. Gotta work something up to give my players a few heart attacks....
LockeTM 03-16-07, 11:17 AM	Ah, but a Thayan Bombard doesn't use smokepowder;) It itself is a magical weapon that uses telekinesis:D
Karsus the Mad 03-16-07, 11:18 AM	I was just about to point that out myself:)
Stigger 03-16-07, 03:17 PM	Do they really? Never read the detailed description, since I've never used one in a campaign. Oops. :D Damn, if I had known that one, I'd have used them ages ago...
Tevin Kevlak 03-17-07, 05:08 PM	Where can the stats for this Thayan Bombard be found? Are there any official stats?
Karsus the Mad 03-17-07, 05:35 PM	Where can the stats for this Thayan Bombard be found? Are there any official stats? Unapproachable East:)
FrostWolf 03-21-07, 09:58 AM	Hmm... what about the spell: "Launch Item" from magic of Faerun for the grenade launcher? That way you could put alchemy stuff in there as well and get situational rounds (From acid, to sonic, to smoke and elemental damage)
Karsus the Mad 03-21-07, 12:58 PM	Hmm... what about the spell: "Launch Item" from magic of Faerun for the grenade launcher? That way you could put alchemy stuff in there as well and get situational rounds (From acid, to sonic, to smoke and elemental damage) I mentioned that up above. It makes more sense than using telekinesis or gust of wind. Also, it's a gnome artificer device power:D I'm in the middle of making various unique devices for war:D Benefit of a gnome artificer crafting it: it's a non-magical effect: ie, works in anti-magic fields and can't be dispelled or counterspelled:evillaugh
Alac Luin 03-21-07, 01:34 PM	Not sure about the bombards... that much smoke powder on board seems a liability, but I like the rest quite a bit. Only thing you'd really have to worry about would be reverse arrows, but that would only go so far, and not all that effective against a moving source. Gotta work something up to give my players a few heart attacks.... There was some "confusion" about the bombards due to an old Dungeon adventure "Operation: Manta Ray". The smokepowder in that adventure was the bombards' payload, not the means of projection. This had me confused for some time (and I believe a few others).
Stigger 03-22-07, 02:48 AM	Actually, I was going off the bombard as it was presented in Forgotten Realms Adventures sourcebook, which lists it as a smoke powder weapon. Hadn't read the 3.x update to it, and just presumed it was essentially the same weapon. So... yeah. As to the launch item spell being used... like that a whole lot actually, much better than what I had in mind, and a lot easier. Good thinking FrostWolf and KtM (ignoring the fact that I completely missed it somehow in KtM's post up there...) :D
FrostWolf 03-22-07, 12:35 PM	I mentioned that up above. It makes more sense than using telekinesis or gust of wind. Also, it's a gnome artificer device power:D I'm in the middle of making various unique devices for war:D Benefit of a gnome artificer crafting it: it's a non-magical effect: ie, works in anti-magic fields and can't be dispelled or counterspelled:evillaugh Ewwwww! Gnome Articifer! :weep: :mad: :allalone: :raincloud :tissue:
Karsus the Mad 03-22-07, 12:53 PM	Ewwwww! Gnome Articifer! :weep: :mad: :allalone: :raincloud :tissue: You...you don't like the Lantanese artificer prestige class?! Sacrilege! Gond shall smite thee!:D
Stigger 03-22-07, 01:05 PM	That is a spiffing PrC... illustration for it is just priceless. Had some fun with that giving Gond the portfolio of Technomancy. :D
Karsus the Mad 03-22-07, 01:12 PM	That is a spiffing PrC... illustration for it is just priceless. Had some fun with that giving Gond the portfolio of Technomancy. :D :ears perk up: Did you say technomancy?:tie: I happen to have an interest:incog: ...do share, do share:detect: And if you inspire me to craft a RL technomantic artifact, I'll even name it after you:) Also, I promise it won't burn up like my prototype wrist mounted aganazzar's scorcher device:embarrass
Stigger 03-22-07, 06:40 PM	If you can find them, Mage: The Sorcerer's Crusade had two books published you'd probably like for inspirtation, The Swashbuckler's Handbook and The Artisans Handbook, both of which are full of some really interesting stuff for Rennaisance era technomantic goodies. The Order of Reason isn't too bad either, though not as good as the other two. While there isn't anything that you can just pick up and slot into the Realms, there's some very good examples of what bleeding edge technology might look like... actually that whole series I've found useful in the Realms for ideas and inspirations, if you can filter out the religious aspect that infuses the Order of Reason (and the setting really) as a whole. But even the Gabriellites could give some ideas as to how technomancy could be appealing to a paladin. DrivethruRPG should have the PDF's pretty cheaply though, come to think of it, if you really want to take a look. Rocket powered war machines, orinthopters, spring-powered really short range helicopters, a halberd turned into an analog of a chainsaw through spring-powered mechanisms, truly disturbing 5-6 barreled firearms, etcetera. There's not a lot of really great stuff to be found, but I found the information very inspiring in general, if not terribly useful out of the box, not just for gear and such, but for organizations as well. It wouldn't be too hard to extrapolate a bit and figure out what Divine Seekers of Gond or Waukeen would look like after reading through the Swashbucklers book. :D
FrostWolf 03-22-07, 08:02 PM	You...you don't like the Lantanese artificer prestige class?! Sacrilege! Gond shall smite thee!:D Don't get me wrong, I have an entire topic about my love of the GA. Tech is just a missing chunck in D&D and they need to flesh it out, the G.A. is no acception. The devices are unwieldy, weak, shouldn't be on a charge-per-item system, and NOT based off of casters (Better to be Rogues). and several other things I've stated (Like the 40+++ pound helm on a gnome syndrome) I mean come on WotC, if you can make MM4, and the spell compendium, Where is our "Races of the Cog" splat book? With a nice, from the ground up, rebuilt Gnome Articifer. I Like the techsmith. Gondsmen are great! But good luck getting your DM to allow firearms (I just swap for an Eberron Spikard, alchemist blade, or reloading crossbow and an extra feat towards the one I pick.)
Stigger 03-23-07, 12:20 AM	I'd allow firearms... none of my players have ever been interested in them, but I'd allow them if they were. I had an idea about a micro-construct weapon that worked the mechanisms on a semi-automatic weapon to reload and work the bolt while a telekinesis effect provided the motive power to the fletchette like ammunition actually... of course by the time you could get make it as a wizard it would be kinda pointlessly underwhelming, but still...
Karsus the Mad 03-23-07, 07:42 AM	Don't get me wrong, I have an entire topic about my love of the GA. Tech is just a missing chunck in D&D and they need to flesh it out, the G.A. is no acception. The devices are unwieldy, weak, shouldn't be on a charge-per-item system, and NOT based off of casters (Better to be Rogues). and several other things I've stated (Like the 40+++ pound helm on a gnome syndrome) Did you see the 3 feats I made for the gnome artificer? They help deal with some of the problems people have about it (weight of devices, and the cost). Not anything near a complete remaking (personally, I don't like doing such, since it makes it more difficult for players to incorporate into other games.). I'd allow firearms... none of my players have ever been interested in them, but I'd allow them if they were. I had an idea about a micro-construct weapon that worked the mechanisms on a semi-automatic weapon to reload and work the bolt while a telekinesis effect provided the motive power to the fletchette like ammunition actually... of course by the time you could get make it as a wizard it would be kinda pointlessly underwhelming, but still... One of my npcs wields a warbringer (ok, ok, I ripped the name from Arcanum, but it sounds great). I made it a 4 chamber wheellock. He uses fireball bullets:shifty:
FrostWolf 03-23-07, 10:23 AM	I'd like a link to those feats please.
Karsus the Mad 03-23-07, 01:31 PM	I'd like a link to those feats please. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=811046 Noone ever replied...I feal cheated! Oh no!:P Just playing. I ripped the buggers from exist feats/prestige class abilities.
Stigger 03-23-07, 02:59 PM	Interesting feats there... might have to snag one or two for something. :)
yehvah 04-01-07, 08:45 AM	So I've just created a 10th level Gnome Artificer, and I'm having trouble with a couple class features. 1. In the explanation it does actually state "...as he gains levels the Artificer learns new device powers automatically as shown on table 3-1: The Gnome Artificer. The Artificer can also purchase information on other device powers from other Artificers or find them in books of crafting, with the prices and values of such objects equal to a scroll of the equivalent spell level..." - then it goes on to describe how a 1st level GA (who must obviously know as many powers as he can at that level, considering it's first and pretty clear) buys the secret to another power... yet at that point it seems pointless to have a limit to the powers known except that no level of GA ever allows the GA to know the full list of device powers (for example, a 10th level GA can only know 9 [of 10 total possible] 0 level device powers, forever limiting him from choosing one of those given powers... seemingly the only limit at all on powers known)... any thoughts on the terrible lack of clarity in concepts printed by our friends at WotC? 2. I'm having trouble determining multi-power device creation costs - do I follow the "power level + power level + 50% combined power levels total = effective power level for item creation purposes" rule that I seem to find in the DMG's section on item creation? 3. The space/volume thing wasn't clear to me at first either, but as long as my device power level concept is correct, then I know what I'm doing. Am I correct in my formula below: EX: 1 slot goggles with 2 0-lvl powers: Light and Detect Poison 1/2 + 1/2 = 1, +50% total power cost (pp 26X in the DMG, sidebar for multiple abilities on magical items) = 3. Effective power level of 3 x 1 (minimum GA level needed to create this item) = 3. 3 x 1 x 1000 = 3000gp + 3 days of work to create Goggles with detect poison and light in them. ...ja?
yehvah 04-01-07, 08:50 AM	I forgot to add the x2 total cost for making it one slot, and my math was wrong in the beginning: (1/2 + 1/2) + 50% = (1) + 50% = 1.5 x minimum GA lvl x 1000 = (1.5 x 1 x 1000) x 2 to create one slot, 2 0-lvl power goggles... meaning 3000 total.
Karsus the Mad 04-01-07, 09:33 AM	So I've just created a 10th level Gnome Artificer, and I'm having trouble with a couple class features. 1. In the explanation it does actually state "...as he gains levels the Artificer learns new device powers automatically as shown on table 3-1: The Gnome Artificer. The Artificer can also purchase information on other device powers from other Artificers or find them in books of crafting, with the prices and values of such objects equal to a scroll of the equivalent spell level..." - then it goes on to describe how a 1st level GA (who must obviously know as many powers as he can at that level, considering it's first and pretty clear) buys the secret to another power... yet at that point it seems pointless to have a limit to the powers known except that no level of GA ever allows the GA to know the full list of device powers (for example, a 10th level GA can only know 9 [of 10 total possible] 0 level device powers, forever limiting him from choosing one of those given powers... seemingly the only limit at all on powers known)... any thoughts on the terrible lack of clarity in concepts printed by our friends at WotC? The device powers known are the ones the gnome artificer learns automatically (in a similar manner of a wizard gaining 2 additional spells in his spellbook for free). You can learn all of the device powers, but additional ones will cost you. They weren't clear with that, and also refering to it as "device powers known" makes it seem more of a technical sorcerer, when it's actually a technical wizard. 2. I'm having trouble determining multi-power device creation costs - do I follow the "power level + power level + 50% combined power levels total = effective power level for item creation purposes" rule that I seem to find in the DMG's section on item creation? It's the same as magic item creation. Highest level power x Crafter level x 1,000gp + second highest level power x crafter level x 1,000gp x.75+ additional powers x crafter level x 1,000gp x.5. Then x2 if you make it single slot. 3. The space/volume thing wasn't clear to me at first either, but as long as my device power level concept is correct, then I know what I'm doing. For space/volume, you add up total volume and space, but as they're bulky as hell, they're considered seperate items for targeting. EX: 1 slot goggles with 2 0-lvl powers: Light and Detect Poison 1/2 + 1/2 = 1, +50% total power cost (pp 26X in the DMG, sidebar for multiple abilities on magical items) = 3. Effective power level of 3 x 1 (minimum GA level needed to create this item) = 3. 3 x 1 x 1000 = 3000gp + 3 days of work to create Goggles with detect poison and light in them. it's 1/2 x 1x1,000gp=500gp +1/2x1x1,000gpx.75=375x2 (for single slot) for a total of 1,750gp. It also weighs 5 pounds and takes up 1 cubic foot of space. Of course, that's if I remember the actual formula correctly. I haven't looked at it in ages:) It's rather confusing as to whether a gnome artificer gets a discount or increases the base cost for multiple powered devices. I always choose a decrease tho', likening the "two slot standard" as being the equal to a regular single slotted magic item, with the "one slot x2 cost" being the equal of a slotless magic item. Oddly enough, the SRD doesn't explain what you do for items with multiple similar abilities that do take up a slot, or about multiple different abilities that don't take up a slot. And of course the gnome artificer being shafted as it is, I like to give the fellow some benefits:D Multiple Similar Abilities: For items with multiple similar abilities that don’t take up space on a character’s body use the following formula: Calculate the price of the single most costly ability, then add 75% of the value of the next most costly ability, plus one-half the value of any other abilities. Multiple Different Abilities: Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar, and their values are simply added together to determine the cost. For items that do take up a space on a character’s body each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price.