Armor Damage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Armor Damage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
MikeR7716
07-23-07, 05:41 PM I like the "reality" of armor points and armor maintenance, but it hasn't worked well for our playing group. (We are actually 2nd holdouts who only read 3rd edition books when no one is looking.) I am starting a new campaign and I would like to include the risk of damaged armor without bogging players down with what has turned out to be a second set of hit points to track. (This is not a judgement on the groups that like armor points.) Keep in mind that I am intentially trading "reality" for ease of use. Also, we do use the 2nd Ed Combat & Tactics critical hit tables for rolls of 20 that hit by more than 5 (the larger criticals can impact armor as well).

I would like input on how to best make these "simplified" armor rules best work:

1) A natural 20 is an automatic hit, unless circumstances dictate otherwise (normal weapon vs. ghost). In addition to any physical damage done to the opponent, any natural 20 that hits would require a savings throw by the armor to avoid armor damage.
2) The savings throws would be based on the armor & material, not the character wearing it. Based on comments from others on the board, I will review the 3ed hardness rules and modify the old 2nd ed material saving throw chart for armor.
3) Magic weapons would create negative modifier to the armor roll.
4) Magic armor creates a postivie modifier to the roll.
5) Armor that fails the save would lose 1,2 or 3 points of AC, based on the size of the weapon (small, medium, large). Armor retaining at least 1 AC point can be repaired.
6) If the defender uses a shield, the shield saves first. If, by Rule 4, the shield is destroyed, the armor also has to roll a save. If this save also fails, any remaining armor "damage" is applied to the armor.

Ex: +1 2-handed sword vs. wooded shield and chainmail. On a natural 20, the sword has the potential for 4 points of armor damage. If the wooden shield fails a save, it is destroyed with 1 of the armor damage points. If the chainmail fails next, it would lose 3 points of AC value.

Keep in mind that these house rules are intended to replace the game effects of sundering and armor points with a quick and easy set of rules.
Questions:
A) In general, does this seem too "hazardous" for magical armor?
B) If magical armor is damaged through this system, would you allow it to be repaired by a normal smith? (Possibly reflecting broken straps, massive dents, stuck hinges, etc that prevent the armor from being as effective)
dragonheart
07-24-07, 10:47 AM Actually that looks pretty good. I would add one thing - magical armour loses physical protection first untill it is down to 1 point of physical protection and then it loses magical ac bonus untill these have fully run out at which point it loses the final physical point of protection. - in your example if the shield were a +2 steel shield and the chainmail a +2 steel suit then the before the hit you would be AC 0 and after the hit the shield would have been destroyed taking 3 points of damage (both its magical points and its 1 physical point) and the armour would be at AC6 physical (instead of chainmail's normal AC5)with the magical defenses reducing that to AC4. the magical enhancements should hold the armour together untill they are completely gone. In hte case aboveif the strike did only 2 points of damage thent he shield would have lost its magical abilities but would still be a functional steel shield.
MikeR7716
07-24-07, 05:45 PM Thanks for the response. I hadn't thought through the "destroyed magical device" scenario. That is exactly why I posted.

I will incorporate your suggestion of magical benefits stay in place until the armor/shield has only one AC point left. Until then, the armor/shield can be repaired to original status. +2 Chain damaged to physical AC of 9 would still have +2 status for a final AC of 7 AND could be fully repaired to normal +2 chain (AC 3). If it took another critical strike, it would be physical AC of 9 +1, and if fully repaired becomes +1 Chain.

Question
1) If a magical armor/shield is rendered useless through this process, is there a magical explosion or does the magic just "wink out"?
dragonheart
07-27-07, 09:39 AM I would simply have it wink out - or perhaps "flash" out - a sudden burst of light as the last of themagic is used up - this does no harm but is a nice visual effect. :P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MikeR7716 07-23-07, 05:41 PM	I like the "reality" of armor points and armor maintenance, but it hasn't worked well for our playing group. (We are actually 2nd holdouts who only read 3rd edition books when no one is looking.) I am starting a new campaign and I would like to include the risk of damaged armor without bogging players down with what has turned out to be a second set of hit points to track. (This is not a judgement on the groups that like armor points.) Keep in mind that I am intentially trading "reality" for ease of use. Also, we do use the 2nd Ed Combat & Tactics critical hit tables for rolls of 20 that hit by more than 5 (the larger criticals can impact armor as well). I would like input on how to best make these "simplified" armor rules best work: 1) A natural 20 is an automatic hit, unless circumstances dictate otherwise (normal weapon vs. ghost). In addition to any physical damage done to the opponent, any natural 20 that hits would require a savings throw by the armor to avoid armor damage. 2) The savings throws would be based on the armor & material, not the character wearing it. Based on comments from others on the board, I will review the 3ed hardness rules and modify the old 2nd ed material saving throw chart for armor. 3) Magic weapons would create negative modifier to the armor roll. 4) Magic armor creates a postivie modifier to the roll. 5) Armor that fails the save would lose 1,2 or 3 points of AC, based on the size of the weapon (small, medium, large). Armor retaining at least 1 AC point can be repaired. 6) If the defender uses a shield, the shield saves first. If, by Rule 4, the shield is destroyed, the armor also has to roll a save. If this save also fails, any remaining armor "damage" is applied to the armor. Ex: +1 2-handed sword vs. wooded shield and chainmail. On a natural 20, the sword has the potential for 4 points of armor damage. If the wooden shield fails a save, it is destroyed with 1 of the armor damage points. If the chainmail fails next, it would lose 3 points of AC value. Keep in mind that these house rules are intended to replace the game effects of sundering and armor points with a quick and easy set of rules. Questions: A) In general, does this seem too "hazardous" for magical armor? B) If magical armor is damaged through this system, would you allow it to be repaired by a normal smith? (Possibly reflecting broken straps, massive dents, stuck hinges, etc that prevent the armor from being as effective)
dragonheart 07-24-07, 10:47 AM	Actually that looks pretty good. I would add one thing - magical armour loses physical protection first untill it is down to 1 point of physical protection and then it loses magical ac bonus untill these have fully run out at which point it loses the final physical point of protection. - in your example if the shield were a +2 steel shield and the chainmail a +2 steel suit then the before the hit you would be AC 0 and after the hit the shield would have been destroyed taking 3 points of damage (both its magical points and its 1 physical point) and the armour would be at AC6 physical (instead of chainmail's normal AC5)with the magical defenses reducing that to AC4. the magical enhancements should hold the armour together untill they are completely gone. In hte case aboveif the strike did only 2 points of damage thent he shield would have lost its magical abilities but would still be a functional steel shield.
MikeR7716 07-24-07, 05:45 PM	Thanks for the response. I hadn't thought through the "destroyed magical device" scenario. That is exactly why I posted. I will incorporate your suggestion of magical benefits stay in place until the armor/shield has only one AC point left. Until then, the armor/shield can be repaired to original status. +2 Chain damaged to physical AC of 9 would still have +2 status for a final AC of 7 AND could be fully repaired to normal +2 chain (AC 3). If it took another critical strike, it would be physical AC of 9 +1, and if fully repaired becomes +1 Chain. Question 1) If a magical armor/shield is rendered useless through this process, is there a magical explosion or does the magic just "wink out"?
dragonheart 07-27-07, 09:39 AM	I would simply have it wink out - or perhaps "flash" out - a sudden burst of light as the last of themagic is used up - this does no harm but is a nice visual effect. :P