Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mad_man0816 07-07-07, 07:44 PM	Hey, i was just wondering what possibilities there are for a high level character who wears light armour to not have his dexterity bonus spoiled by the Max Dex. of the armour. For example, I have a character who is currently wearing a mithril shirt (max dex +6) and has a dex score of 20. I intend to eventually achieve a dexterity score of 25 by level 21 so i can get things like Perfect TWF etc., is there something i don't know about that can help me to both wear armour and have a very high dexterity bonus?
Drew1369r 07-07-07, 11:28 PM	different armor... celestial chain is full chain mail that allows a dex score of 8
Zekarra 07-08-07, 12:41 AM	Nimbleness in the Magic of Faerun is a +1 modifer on cost to magic armor and give a +2 to Max Dex and reduce ACP by 1. Also Mithril gives a +2 to Max Dex. In the Magic Item Compendium Nimbleness is +1 Max Dex and reduce ACP by 2.
Dielzen 07-08-07, 08:59 AM	Bracers of Armor
mad_man0816 07-08-07, 07:53 PM	different armor... celestial chain is full chain mail that allows a dex score of 8 This sounds pretty cool, where can I find celestial chainmail?
Drew1369r 07-08-07, 08:20 PM	DMG magic armor section specific armor... you can also fly with it for 5 minutes
mad_man0816 07-08-07, 09:52 PM	Yeah that is really cool armour, thanks. One more question though, would I be able to get Celestial Mithril Chainmail do you think?
Drew1369r 07-09-07, 01:54 PM	I would say that it would ruin the quality of it by making it mithral. But thats a question for your DM
dragonheart 07-10-07, 03:29 PM	think outside the box - clothing is armour with a base armourclass of +0 ( it really should be something like +0.2 - 0.5 for things like denim and leather jackets - thank the gods for my leatehr when ever we clip the cat's claws - no scratchs on my flesh :D ) so Pants of medium fortification and +5 natural armour with a silk shirt of arrow deflection with a +5 armour enhancement, boots of dodging and endurance (+5 dodge bonus + endure elements so they can walk around in the silk shirt all summer and winter) etc. and now you have armour equal to the best fighter with no penalties at all :D
Purple Dragon Knight 07-13-07, 12:36 AM	think outside the box - clothing is armour with a base armourclass of +0 ( it really should be something like +0.2 - 0.5 for things like denim and leather jackets - thank the gods for my leatehr when ever we clip the cat's claws - no scratchs on my flesh :D ) so Pants of medium fortification and +5 natural armour with a silk shirt of arrow deflection with a +5 armour enhancement, boots of dodging and endurance (+5 dodge bonus + endure elements so they can walk around in the silk shirt all summer and winter) etc. and now you have armour equal to the best fighter with no penalties at all :D I wouldn't allow that in my games. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that armor needs to be armor in the first place in order to receive enchantment, same way you need a real weapon to make a magic weapon. Otherwise every dang 10th-level rogue would own a toothpick +1 and go around stabbing people with a 0 dmg weapon, +1 for magical, +5d6 sneak damage... :rolleyes:
Purple Dragon Knight 07-13-07, 12:52 AM	Yeah that is really cool armour, thanks. One more question though, would I be able to get Celestial Mithril Chainmail do you think? Absolutely. Just subtract the cost of a masterwork chain mail from the total price of the Celestial Armor, then add the price of a Mithril Chainmail. Voila! By the way, the DMG price is wrong. The DMG says: Price 22,400 gp; Cost 12,550 gp + 1,004 XP. Now, 1004 XP times 25 yields a magical enhancement cost of 25,100gp If you divide that by two, you obtain the magical component cost of 12,550gp. In order to compute both the TRUE cost to create and the market price, you need to add the price of a MW chainmail to these, in effect: Cost to create: 1,004 XP and 12,550 + 300 = 12,850gp Market Price: 25,100 + 300 = 25,400gp Now, if you want a Mithril Celestial Armor, it would cost you: Cost to create: 1,004 XP and 12,550 + 150 + 4000 = 16,700gp Market Price: 25,100 + 150 + 4000 = 29,250gp
runestar 07-13-07, 10:19 AM	Underdark has spidersilk (+3AC, max dex+8) and some sort of cloth armour (+2AC, max dex+10).
sleyvas 07-13-07, 10:25 AM	I wouldn't allow that in my games. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that armor needs to be armor in the first place in order to receive enchantment, same way you need a real weapon to make a magic weapon. Otherwise every dang 10th-level rogue would own a toothpick +1 and go around stabbing people with a 0 dmg weapon, +1 for magical, +5d6 sneak damage... :rolleyes: LOL, the poor fellow who has to painstakingly create a masterwork toothpick:D
Dielzen 07-13-07, 11:53 AM	Still don't know why you're not just using bracers of armor :P You can get AC8 bracers with an additional +5 in enhancements (like shadow/etc) pre-epic, which is the same AC as a +4 chain shirt and has no max Dex issues, and you get "free ghost touch" since the AC is force-based.
captaincarot 07-13-07, 11:59 AM	LOL, the poor fellow who has to painstakingly create a masterwork toothpick:D you would be better off using a +1 sewing needle, you would get 1 point of damage extra when you prodded em with it. and you could use it to sew your pants up after running away from annoyyed dragons.
dragonheart 07-13-07, 01:11 PM	I wouldn't allow that in my games. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that armor needs to be armor in the first place in order to receive enchantment, same way you need a real weapon to make a magic weapon. Otherwise every dang 10th-level rogue would own a toothpick +1 and go around stabbing people with a 0 dmg weapon, +1 for magical, +5d6 sneak damage... :rolleyes: the problem is that clothing IS armour - very simple very basic and not much good agasint most weapons but its arour ability agasint things like thorns, sharp stones, sticks and even contact poisons like poison ivy is much of the reason we wear it. Hence my point in the earlier post that it really should be considered low decimal AC - not enough to count agasint major weapons but just enough to count as armour for enhancing. In addition if you think of it is a shirt really any more "armour" than a metal ring around your wrists that can take the mage armour spell and become a bracer AC 8? the other side of the logic makes less sense to me than considering clothign to be AC 0.1 armour and thus able to take an armour enhancement which then overlaps with its basic natural ability just as the magical enhancements on weapons ovedrlap the masterwork bonus. Hrmm enhanced magic mithril toothpick of dragonslaying - thrust between scales peircing skin and leave so that it does 2D6 damage each round cutting up the innards untill the dragon dies - I like it :P yes in the right hands (mine :>)even a toothpick is a killing thrusting weapon!
Purple Dragon Knight 07-13-07, 01:55 PM	The problem is that you cannot have a useful discussion if you introduce semantics and pseudo-science within the existing rules system. In D&D terms: armor is very different from clothing, as these two categories of items define what the pricing scheme and body slot locations of the enchantments that can go into them. There's a reason that the magical component of rings of protection and amulets of natural armor have different pricing schemes that the one used for armor... the rules for enchanting clothing with an armor bonus is not simple, and one of the only vestments I know that is enchanted thusly is the Robe of the Archimagi, which is not a minor item!!!! :) Edit: I say suck it up, and at least invest in spider silk... otherwise go for Bracers of Armor. For 80,000gp or so you get the top one on that list... not bad for a guy going around in plain clothes!
Kaurus 07-15-07, 10:50 AM	just use Padded Armour, its better than plain clothes ;) Padded 5 gp +1 AC 8 MaxDex 0 ACP 5% ASFC normal movement and 10 lb. weight. Way better paying 155 gp for +1 AC and max AC Bonus of +11 for 100,155 gp than +1 AC for 1000 gp and max +10 AC for 100,000 gp :) So I think I would not allow characters to use armor, armor is way to good when comparing gp / AC LOL Take a close look to http://www.geocities.com/sovelior/srd/magicItemsCreation.html then youŽll recognize 5 different kinds of AC bonus (armor, shield, natural, deflection and other), though some are more expensive than others - this should suffice to get a nice AC. And if you want to wear pants of deflection you can do so, just use the "No space limitation, Multiply entire cost by 2" oprion like the Ioun stone does. (No need to argue if clothes are armour, because you can make clothes into wonderous items).
Kaurus 07-15-07, 11:20 AM	There's a reason that the magical component of rings of protection and amulets of natural armor have different pricing schemes that the one used for armor... the rules for enchanting clothing with an armor bonus is not simple, and one of the only vestments I know that is enchanted thusly is the Robe of the Archimagi, which is not a minor item!!!! :) I think you posted the "Robe of the Archimagi" example by accident, because I know nobody, who would dare to compare a woundrous item giving a plain bonus to AC with a big bad . . . item that gives you * +5 armor bonus to AC. * Spell resistance 18. * +4 resistance bonus on all saving throws. * +2 enhancement bonus on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance !!! This comparison is rediculous and it is insulting that you want to fool others with it, because it is a very pricy item. Save bonus (resistance) Bonus squared x 1,000 gp => 4x4 -> 16,000 gp Spell resistance 10,000 gp per point over SR 12; SR 13 minimum => SR 18 -> 60,000 These two are worth 76,000 on their own, so the pricing of an +5 armorbonus and +2 enhancement bonus on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance both cost about - 1000 gp (or maybe they have a positive cost which is canceld by the alignment requirement the robe has).
dragonheart 07-16-07, 11:10 AM	The problem is that you cannot have a useful discussion if you introduce semantics and pseudo-science within the existing rules system. In D&D terms: armor is very different from clothing, as these two categories of items define what the pricing scheme and body slot locations of the enchantments that can go into them. There's a reason that the magical component of rings of protection and amulets of natural armor have different pricing schemes that the one used for armor... the rules for enchanting clothing with an armor bonus is not simple, and one of the only vestments I know that is enchanted thusly is the Robe of the Archimagi, which is not a minor item!!!! :) Edit: I say suck it up, and at least invest in spider silk... otherwise go for Bracers of Armor. For 80,000gp or so you get the top one on that list... not bad for a guy going around in plain clothes! INdeed they are different but that doesn't mean that you can't do it - for all the reasaons I've given above. If you want to make it a bit harder to do then require that the caster have both the create magic arms and armour feat and the create wondrous items feat to enable them to place armour enhancements on clothing as they do on cloaks, vests and other items - see the magic item compendium for a wide variety of clothing with armour bonuses. Bracers are indeed a great way to go - untill you fill up the few slots left with other abilities (in my campaign THose bracers of AC8 only have 2 enhancement "slots" left - they are the one exception to the rule that you get no more than +5 enhancement - but its at the cost of not being able to add much else)
Calmar 07-16-07, 06:48 PM	Magic vestment works on ordinary clothing, too. So it should not be wrong to make a permanent version. Still more credible than some piece of new supernatural armor. :P Other wise I go with the beholder -- bracers of armor are the perfect sollution for someone who does not want to wear a suit of armor.
1 ton ghost 08-04-07, 03:07 PM	the simplest solution is usually the correct one for all the money thrown to make your super badass armor, you could've simply gone for high concealment, ie)ring of invisibilty for signigicantly less. if you're not even detected, then defending isn't a problem. plus you get +2 attack when you're invis, and is generally more useful utilitarian. armor has one purpose. you are wise to amp Dex though. it is probably, IMO, best stat given it effects more things: init, reflx, hide/MS/ride/tumble/etc., AC's, ranged attacks, and so on. most diverse i guess. i prefer it over CON. extra HP are nice, but if you don't get hit you dodge that bullet altogether, pun intended. for force armor effects though, some said Bracers (i didn't know those would work against touch btw, thanks much) which is why some Fighters will still bear them in additon to the heavy armors when fighting wraiths, mages, etc. don't forget shields. they have no Dex penalty. amping armor is cheaper than weaponry. shoot the moon.
godbeepit 08-04-07, 03:28 PM	for force armor effects though, some said Bracers (i didn't know those would work against touch btw, thanks much) which is why some Fighters will still bear them in additon to the heavy armors when fighting wraiths, mages, etc. I was under the impression that bracers of armor gave an armor bonus and that whether it were force or not would not matter for a touch. Now, it would apply against incorporeal creatures because it is force as long as it were not a touch attack.
dragonheart 08-10-07, 09:06 AM	Force armour applies to touch attacks - it is basically creating a small mobile wall of force between the PC and the touching attack so that the effect of the touch can not get through. This force also blocks attacks from other planes hence its ability to block attacks from incorporeal foes (who are basically attacking from the Ethereal plane). THe only attacks it does not protect agasint are gaze attacks as it is transparent.