Best way to go Un-Armored: [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best way to go Un-Armored: [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Burningspear
04-05-07, 06:28 PM I lost my old thread, so here again :plotting: :lightbulb :banghead: :tie:

In my research to go without any armor, i think the best way is:
Swashbuckler 3 (I would have gone Rogue, but the Bab that the swashbuckler has is to good to miss, and in my style i don't need the Sneak Attack and to get the Weapon Finesse for free)

Fighter 2 (to get some needed feats without losing your own interests in a variety of other feats)

Monk 2 (to round out the various skill needs, and to get Wis. to ac, i hope for the char to have an average of 16 Wis when he gets this far.)

Duelist 3 (in my case 3 is all i need on average, as it depends on int. mod. how high is really useful to go into this class), i base this character on Int 16.

Any other thoughts? anything i am missing regarding this? apart from magic and items..

i want this char to have a decent AC even without magic..

Edit:
What feats u think should be good, apart from the obvious ones u need for the prestige class?'
I am thinking:
Need:Dodge, Mobility, and Weapon Finesse.

Might be fitting:Sidestep Charge, Close-quarter Fighting.
Dielzen
04-05-07, 10:19 PM You want to go unarmored, that's great....what stats? what race? what weapons?

More info would be slightly useful.
Burningspear
04-05-07, 10:53 PM You want to go unarmored, that's great....what stats? what race? what weapons?

More info would be slightly useful.

Nice of u to ask, but, as i dont have a DM yet :tie:, my stats are just general ideas.

Human, Untherite from Mourktar.

Hopefully, stats along the line of:
str 16+, dex 14, con 16, int 16, wis 16, cha 10+
Dielzen
04-06-07, 12:28 AM 10 points to get a 16
6 to get a 14
2 to get a 10

You're expecting a MINIMUM of 48 point buy.

I would come up with more realistic goals, like say pure 14s with a 10 CHA (32pt buy)

Also you didn't mention wpns, but I noticed your other thread, a 2h wpn
Dielzen
04-06-07, 12:30 AM Best bet to get the super power-gamer char you're wanting -- Vow of Poverty
Burningspear
04-06-07, 10:23 AM 10 points to get a 16
6 to get a 14
2 to get a 10

You're expecting a MINIMUM of 48 point buy.

I would come up with more realistic goals, like say pure 14s with a 10 CHA (32pt buy)

Also you didn't mention wpns, but I noticed your other thread, a 2h wpn

Nah, that system is crappy imo, we either rolled some dice or we just got straight points for stats: 86 points to divide as u wish (within reason).
so with 4x 16, 14 and a 10 i would need to be a lvl 8+ character, that would make a grand total of 86 points, and i dont think 4x 16 is power gaming..1x 20 would be, imo
Burningspear
04-06-07, 10:24 AM Best bet to get the super power-gamer char you're wanting -- Vow of Poverty

He is not a nice guy and i don't like him not owning anything :tie:
ShadezofDis
04-06-07, 11:43 AM Just as a note, besides our conversation about a two handers appropriateness for this build.

Weapon Finesse only applies to light weapons with the exception of;
rapier, whip and spiked chain.

So unless you are using a varient I am unaware of you wouldn't get the Weapon Finesse bonus to a two hander (with the exception of the spiked chain)
Burningspear
04-06-07, 11:45 AM Just as a note, besides our conversation about a two handers appropriateness for this build.

Weapon Finesse only applies to light weapons with the exception of;
rapier, whip and spiked chain.

So unless you are using a varient I am unaware of you wouldn't get the Weapon Finesse bonus to a two hander (with the exception of the spiked chain)

I never stated i would or even intended to use a 2hander with finesse.
I know how finesse works.
:tie:
ShadezofDis
04-06-07, 12:00 PM I never stated i would or even intended to use a 2hander with finesse.
I know how finesse works.
:tie:

Ok, cool. Didn't know how you intended to run with that.
Mad Mage
04-06-07, 12:33 PM 1) Ummmm, by Untheric, do you mean Mulan human? The mulan are the race that occupies Unther, be it the free or the occupied area. The main dividing line is the fact that the Mulhorandi Mulan and the Untheric Mulan - at least in the past - tend to worship 2 differenent pantheons.

2) Okay, so your character's going to go around unarmored, taking mobility-oriented combat feats and wielding a 2-handed hammer? It could work. My questions, then are these:
- Do you have an issue with using magical items that supply bonuses to AC, like an Amulet of Natural Armor or Bracers of Armor?
- Do you think you'll access to - and if so, use - non-equipment items that provide temporary armor bonuses or damage reduction, such as potions?
- Have you considered just going with a class that offers Damage Reduction, like the Barbarian?
Dr_Tough
04-06-07, 01:02 PM So... what kind of character concept has a swashbuckler/monk? That seems a bit far fetched to me.
Dielzen
04-06-07, 06:39 PM As far as I can tell, this "concept" mearly is "how high can I get my AC w/o armor and wielding a 2h weapon" which would get better answers on the CO boards, as most people here don't really go into the power-game tweaking methods of char building.
Burningspear
04-06-07, 08:35 PM 1) Ummmm, by Untheric, do you mean Mulan human? The mulan are the race that occupies Unther, be it the free or the occupied area. The main dividing line is the fact that the Mulhorandi Mulan and the Untheric Mulan - at least in the past - tend to worship 2 differenent pantheons.
yes, i am, even though they are from the same "racial stock" as the Mulhorandi, i do regard the style of the Untherites completely different, personally i love the Egypt pantheon, but in the Forgotten Realms i loath the Mulhorandis and their arrogant stance towards their "ex-allies"..(i would love to kick Pharao butt) :plotting: , i think Gilgeam was not better, but at least interesting, as not to see again any "Egyptian" lovers and get the same gods again like Horus and Seth etc.

2) Okay, so your character's going to go around unarmored, taking mobility-oriented combat feats and wielding a 2-handed hammer? It could work. My questions, then are these:
- Do you have an issue with using magical items that supply bonuses to AC, like an Amulet of Natural Armor or Bracers of Armor?
- Do you think you'll access to - and if so, use - non-equipment items that provide temporary armor bonuses or damage reduction, such as potions?
- Have you considered just going with a class that offers Damage Reduction, like the Barbarian?
Yes, :tie: , no i don't, but full plate gives +8 AC without any magic, i would like to get some AC without having to resort to magic.
I know there are bracer's, and Dragon 325 has a nice item called: Obi of the White Lotus Master, witch is very nice (+4 to any lawful wearer, if Lawful and Neutral with unarmed strike or impr. u.a. strike, then it also gives any opponent 20% miss chance, but if not allowed the dex bonus then no miss chance, only the Armor bonus to AC.)

Dr_Tough So... what kind of character concept has a swashbuckler/monk? That seems a bit far fetched to me.
To you it might seem far fetched, to a character trying to survive in a world where a lot of defensive power comes from walking around like a Tin Sardine Can, and not wanting to sacrifice his mobility to his life, it seems like a nice middle way, besides, not all monks are the Chinese/ Japanese / Buddhist type spiritualists.
Taking Monk and Duelist is not weird in a sense, as even the DMG states that a monk makes a good duelist as he does not rely on armor for protection. :tie:

As far as I can tell, this "concept" mearly is "how high can I get my AC w/o armor and wielding a 2h weapon" which would get better answers on the CO boards, as most people here don't really go into the power-game tweaking methods of char building.
I don't regard myself as a power gamer, and i don't need to get a min-maxing answer, i am merely looking in a direction and asking if i am forgetting possibilities that are not "over the top" and still playable.
Burningspear
04-06-07, 08:52 PM To get the character concept a bit clearer, i will elaborate about the characters background story:

When "Vhaedos" was a kid, his dad was a wealthy merchant/ gangster,
he had had in the past some dealings with the church of Bane in Mourktar, but he did not really like the fellows, so he cut it of, they did not like being "ignored".
Not wanting his kid to grow up into the life he was leading, he send the child at the age of 12 to the church of Assuran (Hoar), so that they could teach him a proper education and make him see different aspects of life then just the way his dad was living. The father payed a large sum of money to the church so that if anything might happen, the child would be safe.

During the ToT, the father was assassinated, as the church still remembered him "crossing them and they did not take lightly being ignored, and he was becoming a nuisance to their business. And so he did not get a chance to see his son full grown, "Vhaedos" was 15 at the time.

His mother had already died some years earlier, so there was no falling back to her. There was some more family left but they were not influential not would he be safe with them because he was the son of..
The Church kept him safe for a number of years and taught him a lot of the world, send him even on some small missions for the church as they wanted him to learn more then just what they knew and could teach, as they knew it was never all life would be.

(more to come)
:plotting:
Lady_Mhaor
04-06-07, 10:52 PM So... what kind of character concept has a swashbuckler/monk? That seems a bit far fetched to me.

Thats not so far fetched seeing how monks can wield the Kama and I belie that works with wep fin.
Mad Mage
04-06-07, 11:37 PM Thats not so far fetched seeing how monks can wield the Kama and I belie that works with wep fin.

Yes, but IIRC, burningspear said he intends this character to wield a 2-handed weapon (from the sound of it, likely a maul). That is not finessable.
Burningspear
04-06-07, 11:56 PM Thats not so far fetched seeing how monks can wield the Kama and I belie that works with wep fin.

Thanks for the logic,
and this is just one of the many possibilities, Dr_Tough,
a Duelist might not just be the "Swashbuckling" fencer that it is portrayed as in many books, u could broaden the horizon in this regard by thinking outside the "book/ kader" :plotting:

Yes, but IIRC, burningspear said he intends this character to wield a 2-handed weapon (from the sound of it, likely a maul). That is not finessable.
Meaning simply, offensively i cannot use the weapon as a duelist is "trained", but he can use all the defenses he has been taught.
If he has to resort to other weapons, per example unarmed combat, he can use the finesse to his "hands", or even a Kama or any such monk weapon, or rapier or such weapons.
The_Shaman
04-16-07, 08:56 PM Since chances are your character already has decent intelligence, consider becoming a carmendine monk - this will make your monk mojo stat Intelligence rather than wisdom. Helps with the MAD.

Also, I don't see why monk/swashbuckler must be any rarer than monk/ranger or even monk/paladin. The swashbuckler is not restricted to chaotic good characters, after all, and a monk might consider the fighting style typical of swashbucklers - characterized by finesse, a bit of acrobatics, and precise, accurate blows a close enough fit to his own.
Burningspear
04-16-07, 09:12 PM Since chances are your character already has decent intelligence, consider becoming a carmendine monk - this will make your monk mojo stat Intelligence rather than wisdom. Helps with the MAD.

Also, I don't see why monk/swashbuckler must be any rarer than monk/ranger or even monk/paladin. The swashbuckler is not restricted to chaotic good characters, after all, and a monk might consider the fighting style typical of swashbucklers - characterized by finesse, a bit of acrobatics, and precise, accurate blows a close enough fit to his own.

Where is that "Carmendine Monk" findable, and what is it?

thnx for the reply anyway.
Karsus the Mad
04-16-07, 10:29 PM Wizard, or sorcerer, or druid, or cleric, or any full spell progression class level 21st. Epic spell using reflect x2 (DC 54) permanent (x5) to permanently cause all ranged and melee attacks to automatically be reflected back to the attacker.
Cheesy:P
Burningspear
04-16-07, 10:46 PM Wizard, or sorcerer, or druid, or cleric, or any full spell progression class level 21st. Epic spell using reflect x2 (DC 54) permanent (x5) to permanently cause all ranged and melee attacks to automatically be reflected back to the attacker.
Cheesy:P

and not what i had in mind, :P
rolig
04-17-07, 05:39 PM the best way to go unarmored is with clothes on
Burningspear
04-18-07, 11:22 PM Ahar aharrr... very funny :)
The_Shaman
04-24-07, 07:11 PM The carmendine monks are an order dedicated to Deneir, detailed further in Champions of Valor. Their most interesting trait is that they use intelligence rather than wisdom for most of their monk abilities... as you can imagine, that tends to be quite useful for various cases, i.e. multiclass combos.
Lady_Mhaor
04-24-07, 07:53 PM The carmendine monks are an order dedicated to Deneir, detailed further in Champions of Valor. Their most interesting trait is that they use intelligence rather than wisdom for most of their monk abilities... as you can imagine, that tends to be quite useful for various cases, i.e. multiclass combos.

mage monks?
with monk skills based in int?

well if thats not unfair to the masses of evildoers everywhere I don't know what is.
Burningspear
04-24-07, 08:45 PM The carmendine monks are an order dedicated to Deneir, detailed further in Champions of Valor. Their most interesting trait is that they use intelligence rather than wisdom for most of their monk abilities... as you can imagine, that tends to be quite useful for various cases, i.e. multiclass combos.

Apart from the fact that i have no link whatsoever with Deneir...
Burningspear
04-24-07, 08:46 PM mage monks?
with monk skills based in int?

well if thats not unfair to the masses of evildoers everywhere I don't know what is.

just curious, why u think it is unfair?
BrennonGoldeye
04-24-07, 08:58 PM Because nobody warned them.:monk:
Karsus the Mad
04-24-07, 10:37 PM Because nobody warned them.:monk:
You're currently 35 miles north west....I'll soon be kicking you with kung fu kantrips!
Over a spot of tea, if you don't mind of course, my dear:whatsthis
Burningspear
04-24-07, 10:53 PM Because nobody warned them.:monk:

what kind of answer is that in relation to my question?...

...weird..
Stigger
04-25-07, 08:22 AM Its unfair because nobody warned the bad guys...

Anywho, I'm favoring KtM's perma reflect epic spell idea personally... might have to develop that as two seperate spells just to see my players eyes bulge and blood pressure rise when I leave a copy of it laying on top of the table next to a folder marked villains...
Khaelieth
04-25-07, 10:57 AM I would have gone Rouge

ROGUE. Or, I think that's what you meant.
BrennonGoldeye
04-25-07, 01:20 PM Hey, maybe he needs some color on his cheeks, or just likes feeling pretty.:embarrass

You're currently 35 miles north west....I'll soon be kicking you with kung fu kantrips!
Over a spot of tea, if you don't mind of course, my dear

Anybody else who wants to join us at Tea can get directions via KtM's sig. Just check the final spoiler. Take some dramamine first.
Burningspear
04-25-07, 01:24 PM Hey, maybe he needs some color on his cheeks, or just likes feeling pretty. :)

hehehe, i don't need rouge on my face, i am "pretty" by itself, but i corrected the typo from the original post just to make sure these misinterpretations don't continue
BrennonGoldeye
04-25-07, 01:42 PM hehehe, i don't need rouge on my face, i am "pretty" by itself, but i corrected the typo from the original post just to make sure these misinterpretations don't continue

Ah, as long as you're pretty. That is the best way to go unarmored. Nobody wants to hit ya, except maybe the fugly folk.;)
BrennonGoldeye
04-25-07, 01:43 PM Its unfair because nobody warned the bad guys...

Anywho, I'm favoring KtM's perma reflect epic spell idea personally... might have to develop that as two seperate spells just to see my players eyes bulge and blood pressure rise when I leave a copy of it laying on top of the table next to a folder marked villains...

Oh yeah, a Master after my own slow-beating heart.:D
Lady_Mhaor
04-25-07, 03:49 PM Ah, as long as you're pretty. That is the best way to go unarmored. Nobody wants to hit ya, except maybe the fugly folk.

lichs everywhere are currently aiming death spells at you

As for why I think mage monks are unfair?

well consider getting kicked several times before you know what happened AND then have a few fireballs tossed around for good luck

Unfair to us one-class maskarrans? Yes yes it is
Burningspear
04-25-07, 03:59 PM lichs everywhere are currently aiming death spells at you

As for why I think mage monks are unfair?

well consider getting kicked several times before you know what happened AND then have a few fireballs tossed around for good luck

Unfair to us one-class maskarrans? Yes yes it is

:rofl:
Karsus the Mad
04-25-07, 04:26 PM Anybody else who wants to join us at Tea can get directions via KtM's sig. Just check the final spoiler. Take some dramamine first.
Hehe. I'm pretty sure my alignment went from CN to CE with that one...
thinking of adding more...
Stigger
04-25-07, 04:40 PM I'd agree, you did just slip into that dark heart of evil... :blink:
Burningspear
04-25-07, 04:45 PM Zip, back to reality and the original subject of this post plz...
Lady_Mhaor
04-25-07, 08:39 PM unarmoredness?

easy go rogue max dex with dex based gear and then go two handed

You cant hit them and they cant hit you

fair trade aye?
dragonheart
04-26-07, 09:04 PM Actually try a monk-ranger-mage mix - wiht the ascetic hunter feat ranger levels stack with monk for open hand damage and you have the BAB to hit foes regularly when you aren't nuking them with spells. By the time you have softened them up and boosted yourself with spells you should be able to stand toe to toe with most anyone. Add a few magic items like bracers and armour enhaced clothing and your really annoying everyone else :P
Lady_Mhaor
04-26-07, 09:55 PM or you could do that

*mutters something about powergamers taking over the realms*

one mage-monk-ranger at a time
:invasion:
Burningspear
04-26-07, 10:06 PM Actually try a monk-ranger-mage mix - wiht the ascetic hunter feat ranger levels stack with monk for open hand damage and you have the BAB to hit foes regularly when you aren't nuking them with spells. By the time you have softened them up and boosted yourself with spells you should be able to stand toe to toe with most anyone. Add a few magic items like bracers and armour enhaced clothing and your really annoying everyone else :P

I am not interested in Ranger for my character, but i am interested where u got the feat from, in that it might give me more story ideas, not power game ideas, wink to Mhaor :tie:
Bushmen
05-21-07, 07:49 PM You could alway add 3 levels of Cleric then add Mystic Wanderer class from Magic of Faerun adds Cha to AC if unarmored. You list a low Cha but still an idea. If you used the Int Monk variant then you could switch your Wis and Cha scores.
Kelmech_Ra
05-21-07, 09:36 PM Why don't you just play a regular fighter wiht dex bonuses, and maybe some rogue thrown in for good measure?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Burningspear 04-05-07, 06:28 PM	I lost my old thread, so here again :plotting: :lightbulb :banghead: :tie: In my research to go without any armor, i think the best way is: Swashbuckler 3 (I would have gone Rogue, but the Bab that the swashbuckler has is to good to miss, and in my style i don't need the Sneak Attack and to get the Weapon Finesse for free) Fighter 2 (to get some needed feats without losing your own interests in a variety of other feats) Monk 2 (to round out the various skill needs, and to get Wis. to ac, i hope for the char to have an average of 16 Wis when he gets this far.) Duelist 3 (in my case 3 is all i need on average, as it depends on int. mod. how high is really useful to go into this class), i base this character on Int 16. Any other thoughts? anything i am missing regarding this? apart from magic and items.. i want this char to have a decent AC even without magic.. Edit: What feats u think should be good, apart from the obvious ones u need for the prestige class?' I am thinking: Need:Dodge, Mobility, and Weapon Finesse. Might be fitting:Sidestep Charge, Close-quarter Fighting.
Dielzen 04-05-07, 10:19 PM	You want to go unarmored, that's great....what stats? what race? what weapons? More info would be slightly useful.
Burningspear 04-05-07, 10:53 PM	You want to go unarmored, that's great....what stats? what race? what weapons? More info would be slightly useful. Nice of u to ask, but, as i dont have a DM yet :tie:, my stats are just general ideas. Human, Untherite from Mourktar. Hopefully, stats along the line of: str 16+, dex 14, con 16, int 16, wis 16, cha 10+
Dielzen 04-06-07, 12:28 AM	10 points to get a 16 6 to get a 14 2 to get a 10 You're expecting a MINIMUM of 48 point buy. I would come up with more realistic goals, like say pure 14s with a 10 CHA (32pt buy) Also you didn't mention wpns, but I noticed your other thread, a 2h wpn
Dielzen 04-06-07, 12:30 AM	Best bet to get the super power-gamer char you're wanting -- Vow of Poverty
Burningspear 04-06-07, 10:23 AM	10 points to get a 16 6 to get a 14 2 to get a 10 You're expecting a MINIMUM of 48 point buy. I would come up with more realistic goals, like say pure 14s with a 10 CHA (32pt buy) Also you didn't mention wpns, but I noticed your other thread, a 2h wpn Nah, that system is crappy imo, we either rolled some dice or we just got straight points for stats: 86 points to divide as u wish (within reason). so with 4x 16, 14 and a 10 i would need to be a lvl 8+ character, that would make a grand total of 86 points, and i dont think 4x 16 is power gaming..1x 20 would be, imo
Burningspear 04-06-07, 10:24 AM	Best bet to get the super power-gamer char you're wanting -- Vow of Poverty He is not a nice guy and i don't like him not owning anything :tie:
ShadezofDis 04-06-07, 11:43 AM	Just as a note, besides our conversation about a two handers appropriateness for this build. Weapon Finesse only applies to light weapons with the exception of; rapier, whip and spiked chain. So unless you are using a varient I am unaware of you wouldn't get the Weapon Finesse bonus to a two hander (with the exception of the spiked chain)
Burningspear 04-06-07, 11:45 AM	Just as a note, besides our conversation about a two handers appropriateness for this build. Weapon Finesse only applies to light weapons with the exception of; rapier, whip and spiked chain. So unless you are using a varient I am unaware of you wouldn't get the Weapon Finesse bonus to a two hander (with the exception of the spiked chain) I never stated i would or even intended to use a 2hander with finesse. I know how finesse works. :tie:
ShadezofDis 04-06-07, 12:00 PM	I never stated i would or even intended to use a 2hander with finesse. I know how finesse works. :tie: Ok, cool. Didn't know how you intended to run with that.
Mad Mage 04-06-07, 12:33 PM	1) Ummmm, by Untheric, do you mean Mulan human? The mulan are the race that occupies Unther, be it the free or the occupied area. The main dividing line is the fact that the Mulhorandi Mulan and the Untheric Mulan - at least in the past - tend to worship 2 differenent pantheons. 2) Okay, so your character's going to go around unarmored, taking mobility-oriented combat feats and wielding a 2-handed hammer? It could work. My questions, then are these: - Do you have an issue with using magical items that supply bonuses to AC, like an Amulet of Natural Armor or Bracers of Armor? - Do you think you'll access to - and if so, use - non-equipment items that provide temporary armor bonuses or damage reduction, such as potions? - Have you considered just going with a class that offers Damage Reduction, like the Barbarian?
Dr_Tough 04-06-07, 01:02 PM	So... what kind of character concept has a swashbuckler/monk? That seems a bit far fetched to me.
Dielzen 04-06-07, 06:39 PM	As far as I can tell, this "concept" mearly is "how high can I get my AC w/o armor and wielding a 2h weapon" which would get better answers on the CO boards, as most people here don't really go into the power-game tweaking methods of char building.
Burningspear 04-06-07, 08:35 PM	1) Ummmm, by Untheric, do you mean Mulan human? The mulan are the race that occupies Unther, be it the free or the occupied area. The main dividing line is the fact that the Mulhorandi Mulan and the Untheric Mulan - at least in the past - tend to worship 2 differenent pantheons. yes, i am, even though they are from the same "racial stock" as the Mulhorandi, i do regard the style of the Untherites completely different, personally i love the Egypt pantheon, but in the Forgotten Realms i loath the Mulhorandis and their arrogant stance towards their "ex-allies"..(i would love to kick Pharao butt) :plotting: , i think Gilgeam was not better, but at least interesting, as not to see again any "Egyptian" lovers and get the same gods again like Horus and Seth etc. 2) Okay, so your character's going to go around unarmored, taking mobility-oriented combat feats and wielding a 2-handed hammer? It could work. My questions, then are these: - Do you have an issue with using magical items that supply bonuses to AC, like an Amulet of Natural Armor or Bracers of Armor? - Do you think you'll access to - and if so, use - non-equipment items that provide temporary armor bonuses or damage reduction, such as potions? - Have you considered just going with a class that offers Damage Reduction, like the Barbarian? Yes, :tie: , no i don't, but full plate gives +8 AC without any magic, i would like to get some AC without having to resort to magic. I know there are bracer's, and Dragon 325 has a nice item called: Obi of the White Lotus Master, witch is very nice (+4 to any lawful wearer, if Lawful and Neutral with unarmed strike or impr. u.a. strike, then it also gives any opponent 20% miss chance, but if not allowed the dex bonus then no miss chance, only the Armor bonus to AC.) Dr_Tough So... what kind of character concept has a swashbuckler/monk? That seems a bit far fetched to me. To you it might seem far fetched, to a character trying to survive in a world where a lot of defensive power comes from walking around like a Tin Sardine Can, and not wanting to sacrifice his mobility to his life, it seems like a nice middle way, besides, not all monks are the Chinese/ Japanese / Buddhist type spiritualists. Taking Monk and Duelist is not weird in a sense, as even the DMG states that a monk makes a good duelist as he does not rely on armor for protection. :tie: As far as I can tell, this "concept" mearly is "how high can I get my AC w/o armor and wielding a 2h weapon" which would get better answers on the CO boards, as most people here don't really go into the power-game tweaking methods of char building. I don't regard myself as a power gamer, and i don't need to get a min-maxing answer, i am merely looking in a direction and asking if i am forgetting possibilities that are not "over the top" and still playable.
Burningspear 04-06-07, 08:52 PM	To get the character concept a bit clearer, i will elaborate about the characters background story: When "Vhaedos" was a kid, his dad was a wealthy merchant/ gangster, he had had in the past some dealings with the church of Bane in Mourktar, but he did not really like the fellows, so he cut it of, they did not like being "ignored". Not wanting his kid to grow up into the life he was leading, he send the child at the age of 12 to the church of Assuran (Hoar), so that they could teach him a proper education and make him see different aspects of life then just the way his dad was living. The father payed a large sum of money to the church so that if anything might happen, the child would be safe. During the ToT, the father was assassinated, as the church still remembered him "crossing them and they did not take lightly being ignored, and he was becoming a nuisance to their business. And so he did not get a chance to see his son full grown, "Vhaedos" was 15 at the time. His mother had already died some years earlier, so there was no falling back to her. There was some more family left but they were not influential not would he be safe with them because he was the son of.. The Church kept him safe for a number of years and taught him a lot of the world, send him even on some small missions for the church as they wanted him to learn more then just what they knew and could teach, as they knew it was never all life would be. (more to come) :plotting:
Lady_Mhaor 04-06-07, 10:52 PM	So... what kind of character concept has a swashbuckler/monk? That seems a bit far fetched to me. Thats not so far fetched seeing how monks can wield the Kama and I belie that works with wep fin.
Mad Mage 04-06-07, 11:37 PM	Thats not so far fetched seeing how monks can wield the Kama and I belie that works with wep fin. Yes, but IIRC, burningspear said he intends this character to wield a 2-handed weapon (from the sound of it, likely a maul). That is not finessable.
Burningspear 04-06-07, 11:56 PM	Thats not so far fetched seeing how monks can wield the Kama and I belie that works with wep fin. Thanks for the logic, and this is just one of the many possibilities, Dr_Tough, a Duelist might not just be the "Swashbuckling" fencer that it is portrayed as in many books, u could broaden the horizon in this regard by thinking outside the "book/ kader" :plotting: Yes, but IIRC, burningspear said he intends this character to wield a 2-handed weapon (from the sound of it, likely a maul). That is not finessable. Meaning simply, offensively i cannot use the weapon as a duelist is "trained", but he can use all the defenses he has been taught. If he has to resort to other weapons, per example unarmed combat, he can use the finesse to his "hands", or even a Kama or any such monk weapon, or rapier or such weapons.
The_Shaman 04-16-07, 08:56 PM	Since chances are your character already has decent intelligence, consider becoming a carmendine monk - this will make your monk mojo stat Intelligence rather than wisdom. Helps with the MAD. Also, I don't see why monk/swashbuckler must be any rarer than monk/ranger or even monk/paladin. The swashbuckler is not restricted to chaotic good characters, after all, and a monk might consider the fighting style typical of swashbucklers - characterized by finesse, a bit of acrobatics, and precise, accurate blows a close enough fit to his own.
Burningspear 04-16-07, 09:12 PM	Since chances are your character already has decent intelligence, consider becoming a carmendine monk - this will make your monk mojo stat Intelligence rather than wisdom. Helps with the MAD. Also, I don't see why monk/swashbuckler must be any rarer than monk/ranger or even monk/paladin. The swashbuckler is not restricted to chaotic good characters, after all, and a monk might consider the fighting style typical of swashbucklers - characterized by finesse, a bit of acrobatics, and precise, accurate blows a close enough fit to his own. Where is that "Carmendine Monk" findable, and what is it? thnx for the reply anyway.
Karsus the Mad 04-16-07, 10:29 PM	Wizard, or sorcerer, or druid, or cleric, or any full spell progression class level 21st. Epic spell using reflect x2 (DC 54) permanent (x5) to permanently cause all ranged and melee attacks to automatically be reflected back to the attacker. Cheesy:P
Burningspear 04-16-07, 10:46 PM	Wizard, or sorcerer, or druid, or cleric, or any full spell progression class level 21st. Epic spell using reflect x2 (DC 54) permanent (x5) to permanently cause all ranged and melee attacks to automatically be reflected back to the attacker. Cheesy:P and not what i had in mind, :P
rolig 04-17-07, 05:39 PM	the best way to go unarmored is with clothes on
Burningspear 04-18-07, 11:22 PM	Ahar aharrr... very funny :)
The_Shaman 04-24-07, 07:11 PM	The carmendine monks are an order dedicated to Deneir, detailed further in Champions of Valor. Their most interesting trait is that they use intelligence rather than wisdom for most of their monk abilities... as you can imagine, that tends to be quite useful for various cases, i.e. multiclass combos.
Lady_Mhaor 04-24-07, 07:53 PM	The carmendine monks are an order dedicated to Deneir, detailed further in Champions of Valor. Their most interesting trait is that they use intelligence rather than wisdom for most of their monk abilities... as you can imagine, that tends to be quite useful for various cases, i.e. multiclass combos. mage monks? with monk skills based in int? well if thats not unfair to the masses of evildoers everywhere I don't know what is.
Burningspear 04-24-07, 08:45 PM	The carmendine monks are an order dedicated to Deneir, detailed further in Champions of Valor. Their most interesting trait is that they use intelligence rather than wisdom for most of their monk abilities... as you can imagine, that tends to be quite useful for various cases, i.e. multiclass combos. Apart from the fact that i have no link whatsoever with Deneir...
Burningspear 04-24-07, 08:46 PM	mage monks? with monk skills based in int? well if thats not unfair to the masses of evildoers everywhere I don't know what is. just curious, why u think it is unfair?
BrennonGoldeye 04-24-07, 08:58 PM	Because nobody warned them.:monk:
Karsus the Mad 04-24-07, 10:37 PM	Because nobody warned them.:monk: You're currently 35 miles north west....I'll soon be kicking you with kung fu kantrips! Over a spot of tea, if you don't mind of course, my dear:whatsthis
Burningspear 04-24-07, 10:53 PM	Because nobody warned them.:monk: what kind of answer is that in relation to my question?... ...weird..
Stigger 04-25-07, 08:22 AM	Its unfair because nobody warned the bad guys... Anywho, I'm favoring KtM's perma reflect epic spell idea personally... might have to develop that as two seperate spells just to see my players eyes bulge and blood pressure rise when I leave a copy of it laying on top of the table next to a folder marked villains...
Khaelieth 04-25-07, 10:57 AM	I would have gone Rouge ROGUE. Or, I think that's what you meant.
BrennonGoldeye 04-25-07, 01:20 PM	Hey, maybe he needs some color on his cheeks, or just likes feeling pretty.:embarrass You're currently 35 miles north west....I'll soon be kicking you with kung fu kantrips! Over a spot of tea, if you don't mind of course, my dear Anybody else who wants to join us at Tea can get directions via KtM's sig. Just check the final spoiler. Take some dramamine first.
Burningspear 04-25-07, 01:24 PM	Hey, maybe he needs some color on his cheeks, or just likes feeling pretty. :) hehehe, i don't need rouge on my face, i am "pretty" by itself, but i corrected the typo from the original post just to make sure these misinterpretations don't continue
BrennonGoldeye 04-25-07, 01:42 PM	hehehe, i don't need rouge on my face, i am "pretty" by itself, but i corrected the typo from the original post just to make sure these misinterpretations don't continue Ah, as long as you're pretty. That is the best way to go unarmored. Nobody wants to hit ya, except maybe the fugly folk.;)
BrennonGoldeye 04-25-07, 01:43 PM	Its unfair because nobody warned the bad guys... Anywho, I'm favoring KtM's perma reflect epic spell idea personally... might have to develop that as two seperate spells just to see my players eyes bulge and blood pressure rise when I leave a copy of it laying on top of the table next to a folder marked villains... Oh yeah, a Master after my own slow-beating heart.:D
Lady_Mhaor 04-25-07, 03:49 PM	Ah, as long as you're pretty. That is the best way to go unarmored. Nobody wants to hit ya, except maybe the fugly folk. lichs everywhere are currently aiming death spells at you As for why I think mage monks are unfair? well consider getting kicked several times before you know what happened AND then have a few fireballs tossed around for good luck Unfair to us one-class maskarrans? Yes yes it is
Burningspear 04-25-07, 03:59 PM	lichs everywhere are currently aiming death spells at you As for why I think mage monks are unfair? well consider getting kicked several times before you know what happened AND then have a few fireballs tossed around for good luck Unfair to us one-class maskarrans? Yes yes it is :rofl:
Karsus the Mad 04-25-07, 04:26 PM	Anybody else who wants to join us at Tea can get directions via KtM's sig. Just check the final spoiler. Take some dramamine first. Hehe. I'm pretty sure my alignment went from CN to CE with that one... thinking of adding more...
Stigger 04-25-07, 04:40 PM	I'd agree, you did just slip into that dark heart of evil... :blink:
Burningspear 04-25-07, 04:45 PM	Zip, back to reality and the original subject of this post plz...
Lady_Mhaor 04-25-07, 08:39 PM	unarmoredness? easy go rogue max dex with dex based gear and then go two handed You cant hit them and they cant hit you fair trade aye?
dragonheart 04-26-07, 09:04 PM	Actually try a monk-ranger-mage mix - wiht the ascetic hunter feat ranger levels stack with monk for open hand damage and you have the BAB to hit foes regularly when you aren't nuking them with spells. By the time you have softened them up and boosted yourself with spells you should be able to stand toe to toe with most anyone. Add a few magic items like bracers and armour enhaced clothing and your really annoying everyone else :P
Lady_Mhaor 04-26-07, 09:55 PM	or you could do that mutters something about powergamers taking over the realms one mage-monk-ranger at a time :invasion:
Burningspear 04-26-07, 10:06 PM	Actually try a monk-ranger-mage mix - wiht the ascetic hunter feat ranger levels stack with monk for open hand damage and you have the BAB to hit foes regularly when you aren't nuking them with spells. By the time you have softened them up and boosted yourself with spells you should be able to stand toe to toe with most anyone. Add a few magic items like bracers and armour enhaced clothing and your really annoying everyone else :P I am not interested in Ranger for my character, but i am interested where u got the feat from, in that it might give me more story ideas, not power game ideas, wink to Mhaor :tie:
Bushmen 05-21-07, 07:49 PM	You could alway add 3 levels of Cleric then add Mystic Wanderer class from Magic of Faerun adds Cha to AC if unarmored. You list a low Cha but still an idea. If you used the Int Monk variant then you could switch your Wis and Cha scores.
Kelmech_Ra 05-21-07, 09:36 PM	Why don't you just play a regular fighter wiht dex bonuses, and maybe some rogue thrown in for good measure?