Can shortspears be set against cavalry charges? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can shortspears be set against cavalry charges? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
meto30
10-18-07, 05:19 PM My PHB states spears and longspears can be set against charges. But the shortspear only states that it is small enough to be wielded one-handed. Does this mean the shortspear cannot be set?

I was thinking of creating a anti-cavalry legionnary for my Chessenta campaign... but the towershield forces him to use the shortspear.

Now this comes to mind... Do chessentan hoplites carry shortspears or spears?
GoldDragon
10-19-07, 12:23 AM My PHB states spears and longspears can be set against charges. But the shortspear only states that it is small enough to be wielded one-handed. Does this mean the shortspear cannot be set?

I was thinking of creating a anti-cavalry legionnary for my Chessenta campaign... but the towershield forces him to use the shortspear.

Now this comes to mind... Do chessentan hoplites carry shortspears or spears?

The usual way that you "set" a Pole Arm for a Charge is that you stand sidewards, usually leff side facing the Charege, and set the butt of the pole arm against the inside of the right heel then lean the polearm to cross the front of you body with right hand gripping overhand about mid pole and left hand at shoulder height gripping underhand and then you bend your left left knee slightly to ""lean" the pole into the Charging targets with the point being to aim for foot soldiers or pass the Horses and into the Mounted riders (A horse ramming your pole in this stands is going to tear your foot off)

If you actually want to aim for the Horses as well as the Riders (Kind of a waste of Lootable resourses once the Riders is dead) then the Polearm is inseat mounted into a emeded rock or other device in the goround that can be hammered or buriied into the ground before the main battle accures though it is possible to hammer a Polearm bracer into the ground and then ready to take the Charge if the riders are far enough to allow for the 10 seconds or so to do so.

An other alternative readying method for PoleArms, especially against foot solders is a leather harness that attachés to the weapon and the users body so that the wielder holds the back of the Pole arm under the right arm with the right hand griping over hand and the left hand gripping under hand further away from the body with the user leaning the body weight on the left leg while the right leg extends backward (think Karate stance) as the polearm almost torches the chest (Defiantly will be knocked down or maybe even loose some body parts if a horse hits your pole in this configuration)

But yeah, How lons is your Short Spear?

If in can reach from under your PC's right arm pit ro across the chest and to be held half an arm length out by the left hand then can still extend out enough to skewer a charging enemy (Maybe 3 feet past the left hand) then I don't see why a Short spear can't be mounted to take a charge this way.

On the other hand the brace in the ground and the bracing against the foot methods will need a Pole arm at least 6 feet long thpugh 8-15 feet was more common for anti-horse pike lines.

And of course only one PC having a polearm against 15 charging enemies when the other member of the parties have other weapons is just silly as these things are "enmasse" weapons like Guns, Crossbolts, Bow and arrows and the "pike line" is better when there are more weapons forming it
meto30
10-19-07, 01:44 AM I was approaching the problem from the rules perspective and not the realistic perspective, but you're right. Shortspears would be too short for anti-cavalry use because they're only about 6 feet long...

But I guess one can present the spearpoint up front in a line formation, this will effectively be a 'set' pike line from the horse's perspective (following the conjecture that a horse will not willingly charge into a line of spears)

However, what I'm interested in is what the rulebook says on this issue. Can anyone tell me what it says?
Another Gnome
10-19-07, 04:07 AM From rules point of view you could even ready a dagger against charge, you just won't get any extra damage out of it.
meto30
10-19-07, 04:44 AM Oops. Rephrase. Would shortspears get the double damage for setting against charge, like spears and longspears do?
Another Gnome
10-19-07, 07:00 AM Well, that was my point... you already get the visual effect, and a mechanical benefit from being able to use a shield. Is it really necessary then to ask for more?

I mean, you could come up with a number of imaginative uses for pretty much any weapon, and a reasonable-sounding real-life example to do so, but there comes a point when it begins to stress the playability of the actual game. Say you give the shortspear added power against the charge, wouldn't it only make sense that a guy using a longspear instead, the weapon being larger and supported with two hands, should get even more added damage? And if the longspear wielder gets his way, then you have the guy with an axe wanting to ignore some of the opponent's armor class because axes generally cut through things.

Some of the rules may not make too much sense, but the ultimate purpose of having premade rules in the first place is to have a benchmark set by an invisible and impartial authority figure. No doubt the rules contain a degree of bias from WotC designers' part as well, but it's much easier for players to accept something written down in a book, than a DM change that seems to favor one particular type of character, let alone a particular player.
meto30
10-19-07, 09:02 AM First of all, thank you Another Gnome for your help.

And that's the reason I was asking for what the rules said on the issue. I take it from your answer that the rules does not mention any such damage increase for shortspears.

Looks like spears coupled with bucklers then.

But the problem arrises. My FRCS mentions the longspear as a bonus weapon for Chessentan characters, but to use the Longspear the shield carried by the hoplite (I'm assuming the Chessentan typical warrior is a hoplite) would have to be a buckler to allow two-handed weapon use. Or maybe all hoplites take the Monkey Grip feat?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
meto30 10-18-07, 05:19 PM	My PHB states spears and longspears can be set against charges. But the shortspear only states that it is small enough to be wielded one-handed. Does this mean the shortspear cannot be set? I was thinking of creating a anti-cavalry legionnary for my Chessenta campaign... but the towershield forces him to use the shortspear. Now this comes to mind... Do chessentan hoplites carry shortspears or spears?
GoldDragon 10-19-07, 12:23 AM	My PHB states spears and longspears can be set against charges. But the shortspear only states that it is small enough to be wielded one-handed. Does this mean the shortspear cannot be set? I was thinking of creating a anti-cavalry legionnary for my Chessenta campaign... but the towershield forces him to use the shortspear. Now this comes to mind... Do chessentan hoplites carry shortspears or spears? The usual way that you "set" a Pole Arm for a Charge is that you stand sidewards, usually leff side facing the Charege, and set the butt of the pole arm against the inside of the right heel then lean the polearm to cross the front of you body with right hand gripping overhand about mid pole and left hand at shoulder height gripping underhand and then you bend your left left knee slightly to ""lean" the pole into the Charging targets with the point being to aim for foot soldiers or pass the Horses and into the Mounted riders (A horse ramming your pole in this stands is going to tear your foot off) If you actually want to aim for the Horses as well as the Riders (Kind of a waste of Lootable resourses once the Riders is dead) then the Polearm is inseat mounted into a emeded rock or other device in the goround that can be hammered or buriied into the ground before the main battle accures though it is possible to hammer a Polearm bracer into the ground and then ready to take the Charge if the riders are far enough to allow for the 10 seconds or so to do so. An other alternative readying method for PoleArms, especially against foot solders is a leather harness that attachés to the weapon and the users body so that the wielder holds the back of the Pole arm under the right arm with the right hand griping over hand and the left hand gripping under hand further away from the body with the user leaning the body weight on the left leg while the right leg extends backward (think Karate stance) as the polearm almost torches the chest (Defiantly will be knocked down or maybe even loose some body parts if a horse hits your pole in this configuration) But yeah, How lons is your Short Spear? If in can reach from under your PC's right arm pit ro across the chest and to be held half an arm length out by the left hand then can still extend out enough to skewer a charging enemy (Maybe 3 feet past the left hand) then I don't see why a Short spear can't be mounted to take a charge this way. On the other hand the brace in the ground and the bracing against the foot methods will need a Pole arm at least 6 feet long thpugh 8-15 feet was more common for anti-horse pike lines. And of course only one PC having a polearm against 15 charging enemies when the other member of the parties have other weapons is just silly as these things are "enmasse" weapons like Guns, Crossbolts, Bow and arrows and the "pike line" is better when there are more weapons forming it
meto30 10-19-07, 01:44 AM	I was approaching the problem from the rules perspective and not the realistic perspective, but you're right. Shortspears would be too short for anti-cavalry use because they're only about 6 feet long... But I guess one can present the spearpoint up front in a line formation, this will effectively be a 'set' pike line from the horse's perspective (following the conjecture that a horse will not willingly charge into a line of spears) However, what I'm interested in is what the rulebook says on this issue. Can anyone tell me what it says?
Another Gnome 10-19-07, 04:07 AM	From rules point of view you could even ready a dagger against charge, you just won't get any extra damage out of it.
meto30 10-19-07, 04:44 AM	Oops. Rephrase. Would shortspears get the double damage for setting against charge, like spears and longspears do?
Another Gnome 10-19-07, 07:00 AM	Well, that was my point... you already get the visual effect, and a mechanical benefit from being able to use a shield. Is it really necessary then to ask for more? I mean, you could come up with a number of imaginative uses for pretty much any weapon, and a reasonable-sounding real-life example to do so, but there comes a point when it begins to stress the playability of the actual game. Say you give the shortspear added power against the charge, wouldn't it only make sense that a guy using a longspear instead, the weapon being larger and supported with two hands, should get even more added damage? And if the longspear wielder gets his way, then you have the guy with an axe wanting to ignore some of the opponent's armor class because axes generally cut through things. Some of the rules may not make too much sense, but the ultimate purpose of having premade rules in the first place is to have a benchmark set by an invisible and impartial authority figure. No doubt the rules contain a degree of bias from WotC designers' part as well, but it's much easier for players to accept something written down in a book, than a DM change that seems to favor one particular type of character, let alone a particular player.
meto30 10-19-07, 09:02 AM	First of all, thank you Another Gnome for your help. And that's the reason I was asking for what the rules said on the issue. I take it from your answer that the rules does not mention any such damage increase for shortspears. Looks like spears coupled with bucklers then. But the problem arrises. My FRCS mentions the longspear as a bonus weapon for Chessentan characters, but to use the Longspear the shield carried by the hoplite (I'm assuming the Chessentan typical warrior is a hoplite) would have to be a buckler to allow two-handed weapon use. Or maybe all hoplites take the Monkey Grip feat?