Chariot Combat [Archive] - Wizards Community

Chariot Combat [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Burningspear
04-10-07, 10:50 PM I am just wondering out loud here,

witch civilizations would be into this kind of warfare?,

apart of course from Unther , Mulhorand and Chessenta...

and what weapons would be mostly used story wise on the back of a chariot?
i am thinking here along the lines of:
Any spear,
Javelin,
Longbow (incl. composite),
Whip?,
Mace, heavy?.

And like in "Troy" movie, swinging a 2handed hammer along from the back of a chariot is way cool imo, and wielding 1 in 1 hand even cooler, if a tad difficult :plotting:

and how to implement the effect of mounted charging?, if a spear hits, how does it affect the wielder and the movement after the hit?, usually it would seem to me that it would break, or the wielder would let it fall, after the target has been hit as it seems next to impossible to "unplug" the weapon from a target while moving opposite directions in comparison to the weapon.

Any other ideas regarding this kind of combat style?
redmagefish
04-11-07, 07:14 PM well alot of mages most likly favor a magic chariot like the ruler of sliverymoon use her fire chaiot to ride in and out of the sky casting spells a rich figher could buy a chariot at flies and use it to a weave in and out hitting the key leaders of a force but then again if you where a goblin would you akt the foot soilders or the fling charoit.it would be use full to the commders and priest. but driving one on the ground would be death the golbins would akt and kill the horses (good meat) and then the diver with there spears 5000 crude spear on a akt charoit force of 300 does not look good
Suin Bahhar
04-12-07, 06:49 PM well alot of mages most likly favor a magic chariot like the ruler of sliverymoon use her fire chaiot to ride in and out of the sky casting spells a rich figher could buy a chariot at flies and use it to a weave in and out hitting the key leaders of a force but then again if you where a goblin would you akt the foot soilders or the fling charoit.it would be use full to the commders and priest. but driving one on the ground would be death the golbins would akt and kill the horses (good meat) and then the diver with there spears 5000 crude spear on a akt charoit force of 300 does not look good

Oo
Suin Bahhar
04-12-07, 06:55 PM Some inspirstiopn can always be had from the Roman arena chariot races. All gladiatoral weapon sets can be employed by a charioteer and driver. A net and trident, morningstar/gladius/spear and shield, etc.

If you go for style use the scythe. The nastiest one you can find ^^
MarkusTay63
04-12-07, 08:06 PM Calimshan has used chariots heavily in the past, along with bow technology they stole from the Tethir Elves.

IMG, Calimshan came up against the early Mulhorandi ONE TIME, and that was how they learned about chariots. They were badly defeated in what they call the "Shaar War", but the Mulhorands refer to as "that tiny little annoying gnat that bit us once".

But that part is just my take, as far as I know it doesn't mention in canon where the Calishites learned about them.

The culture known as the Pazruki (northern KT) has been said to use Torcs (a Celtic item), and the neighboring Issacortae have a 'High King' or 'High Queen' and are nomadic. Both peoples are described as primitive and allow their women to have equality, even as warriors, also similar to the Celts. They are are an ancient related group of peoples that pre-date the coming of the Oriental Shou, so my guess is that they ARE in fact FR's version of Celts, perhaps going as far as saying that the early ancestors of these peoples (the Kalmyk?) built many of the Menhirs (standing Stones) that are used by Druids today. Therefore, I would say that the Western Issacortae that live along the Eastern shores of the Great Ice Sea probably use chariots in much the same way as the ancient Celts did, and I could see them utilizing them against the Steppe nomads when they clash on the plain of horses.

Once again, thats all just conjecture on my part (the Celt tie-in), but it does make sense somewhat if you are looking for another group who possibly use chariots.

The Calishites used the heavier two and three man chariots with archers, while the Issacortae would most likely use a single-man version.

The early Chondath (Jamdath) are another possible chariot-using people, being similar in some ways to Greco-Roman culture, although they don't use them anymore (if ever). If they did, then they too would be another source for Calimshan to have learned from.
Burningspear
04-14-07, 03:39 AM The culture known as the Pazruki (northern KT) has been said to use Torcs (a Celtic item), and the neighboring Issacortae have a 'High King' or 'High Queen' and are nomadic. Both peoples are described as primitive and allow their women to have equality, even as warriors, also similar to the Celts. They are are an ancient related group of peoples that pre-date the coming of the Oriental Shou, so my guess is that they ARE in fact FR's version of Celts, perhaps going as far as saying that the early ancestors of these peoples (the Kalmyk?) built many of the Menhirs (standing Stones) that are used by Druids today. Therefore, I would say that the Western Issacortae that live along the Eastern shores of the Great Ice Sea probably use chariots in much the same way as the ancient Celts did, and I could see them utilizing them against the Steppe nomads when they clash on the plain of horses.

Once again, thats all just conjecture on my part (the Celt tie-in), but it does make sense somewhat if you are looking for another group who possibly use chariots.

The early Chondath (Jamdath) are another possible chariot-using people, being similar in some ways to Greco-Roman culture, although they don't use them anymore (if ever). If they did, then they too would be another source for Calimshan to have learned from.

I was actually more interested in current living realms, and i have a huge dislike for "Jaamdath" as that realm seems to be popping up its ugly head more then i care for. :plotting:

That Pazruki thing i have never hear of, in all the years i have been playing ever sins 2e has never brought me in contact with this info, so i am unsure where u get this from.

And no one has answered my question about the spear and how to unplug it from a target when moving in the opposite direction...
Burningspear
04-20-07, 10:16 PM Still have not had a serious answer to my question yet.

:bump:
Stigger
04-24-07, 07:48 AM Possibly Thay, given its Mulhorandi origin, mostly as a mobile wizard conveyance I'd think... the Mulhorandi client states to the south and east of that nation as well perhaps. But, as far as I'm aware, Chariots require a good bit of relatively level ground to offset being flipped, so its probably fallen out of use in favor of cavalry. They're cool looking sure, but inferior to cavalry in most respects when it comes to maneuver warfare.
MarkusTay63
04-24-07, 02:54 PM I was actually more interested in current living realms, and i have a huge dislike for "Jaamdath" as that realm seems to be popping up its ugly head more then i care for. :plotting:True, Jamdath no longer exists, I was just posing it as an unlikely source for Calimshan to have learned it. Since posting that, I have read that the Calishites 're-invented' the chariot from their earlier periods of history. The Shoon used them, and possibly the genie cultures before them. AFAIK, Calimshan STILL uses chariots, as does Mulhorand.

That Pazruki thing i have never hear of, in all the years i have been playing ever sins 2e has never brought me in contact with this info, so i am unsure where u get this from.Most of it is from the Kara-Tur books, with a tiny bit taken from the Hordelands. There is nothing in the text that states that these people are Oriental in any way, and their culture is reminiscent of early Celtic. Although they are an ancient race, they still behave today as they did thousands of years ago, so running into their chariots East of Rashemen is a distinct possibility. It is never clearly stated weather they would have them, but given the cultural similarities I would hazard to guess they would, and they would be an effective and flavorful counter to the Tuigen to the south.

And no one has answered my question about the spear and how to unplug it from a target when moving in the opposite direction...Claishite and most real world cultures used bows from chariots, and swords for close-combat. A spear would be a problem, given the limited manueverability INSIDE a chariot, but something similar to a a Yari (Oriental-spear) might work, or it's shorter cousin the Yarinage (javelin). Both employed a sword-like blade at the end, instead of the tip most often seen on western versions, and could be used for slashing. A charioteer would probably carry 3-5 of these for throwing.

EDIT: I just re-read your OP, and I realize you were talking about the chariot's OPPONENT using a spear. If it's a normal hit, I would treat it in the usual manner (just damage, no other effect). If it's a critical, then I would say it got stuck and is doing 1-2 pnts of blood-loss damage until he is able to stop, remove the (probably broken) spear and bandage. In the RW he would probably die of an infection either way.
Burningspear
04-24-07, 11:35 PM Claishite and most real world cultures used bows from chariots, and swords for close-combat. A spear would be a problem, given the limited manueverability INSIDE a chariot, but something similar to a a Yari (Oriental-spear) might work, or it's shorter cousin the Yarinage (javelin). Both employed a sword-like blade at the end, instead of the tip most often seen on western versions, and could be used for slashing. A charioteer would probably carry 3-5 of these for throwing.

EDIT: I just re-read your OP, and I realize you were talking about the chariot's OPPONENT using a spear. If it's a normal hit, I would treat it in the usual manner (just damage, no other effect). If it's a critical, then I would say it got stuck and is doing 1-2 pnts of blood-loss damage until he is able to stop, remove the (probably broken) spear and bandage. In the RW he would probably die of an infection either way.

Funny thing is, u misread it the 2nd time.
As my intention was to have the chariot-rider wield a spear, and how would he unstuck it from his target, or would they be "one use" items basically?

I will stick to the latter one use logic.
Yanagita Kunio
04-25-07, 02:33 AM Sorry, Burningspear, but I'm approaching the question backwards.

There are light, medium, and heavy chariots, which are used in slightly different, though overlapping, ways. Generalizing across cultures, chariots and chariot warriors historically alternated between the role of cavalry, mechanized infantry, and shock-and-awe.

Light chariots like you see the pharoahs in Egyptian steles were for skirmishing: they're fast and do comparitively well on rough terrain, so you have the option of tearing around the battlefield and peppering the enemy with ranged attacks and/or hit-and-run melee [dismounted from the chariot]. They also allowed fast transport of commanders and other elites to where they were needed on the battlefield. Medium chariots like the Chinese and Hittite war "carts" would house both ranged and melee warriors--the idea was to position troops for sorties, then pack them up again and move to a new position. Heavy chariots like those used in ancient India were too slow for hit-and-run tactics, but with their size, weight, and momentum could be used for breaking formations...often with allied infantry following closely in their wake to exploit the gap.

and what weapons would be mostly used story wise on the back of a chariot?

Well, chariots were mostly used by Bronze-Age cultures, so the range of options partially reflects that, not just what was strategic.

Light and Medium: bows, staff-slings, javelins, spears, axes, maces
Heavy: all of the above plus, polearms (reach weapons).

In an more-than Iron Age tech level, I'd say pretty much anything goes. Likely any chariot team would have some ranged weapons, some long-hafted weapons), and some weapons for close combat.

and how to implement the effect of mounted charging?

Were someone couching a lance in a chariot, presumably you'd get the same damage bonus on a charge while mounted...but an opponent set versus a charge would get the same benefits in turn.

if a spear hits, how does it affect the wielder and the movement after the hit?, usually it would seem to me that it would break, or the wielder would let it fall, after the target has been hit as it seems next to impossible to "unplug" the weapon from a target while moving opposite directions in comparison to the weapon.

In-game there's not really rules for this kind of event that I know of...(again, looking to standard charging rules for a template).

Any other ideas regarding this kind of combat style?

In a chariot you're more likely to be overriding an opponent than swiping them with a melee weapon in passing. I'd suggest looking at the Overrun/Trample rules in the PHB (pp157)--however, rather than doing just the hoof damage of the creature pulling, a chariot would either get a slam attack as an equivalent-sized Animated Object or a Trample effect as per the Monster Manual special attack [MM1, pp 316].

A passenger within a chariot would experience the same penalties as a mounted person when it comes to acceleration affecting ranged attacks and spells [PHB 157]--all that tossing about in a cart with no shocks has to take a toll on one's aim/concentration--but also the mounted bonuses to melee. The charioteer would make the Ride checks: in a light chariot this would be like the checks made by a rider, while in medium or heavy chariot there would be either an increase in the Ride check DC or more of the charioteer's turn consumed by controlling the rig and the team (ie a move action rather than a free action).

Being within a chariot would provide cover for its occupant. Whether the degree of cover would vary by chariot size and armament, I'm not sure. I'm tempted to call a light chariot soft cover (AC bonus), while a medium or heavy chariot would be full cover (AC bonus and Reflex save bonus).

Which civilizations would be into this kind of warfare? apart of course from Unther , Mulhorand and Chessenta...

Extrapolating to Faerun, things like magic and supernatural beasts sort of muddy the water on the practical uses of chariots...on top of most of Faerun being well into the Iron Age and having access to lovely tech like the bridle and stirrups [that IRL contributed to the demise of the chariot]. Most military powers are going to pick regular cavalry (or aerial/supernatural variants thereof) over chariots: the former are more manueverable, more terrain-adaptable, less difficult to maintain. And while I can't speak for training a griffon- or giant eagle rider...it is easier (and cheaper in man-hours) to train someone to ride a horse than to handle a two-in-hand or four-in-hand.

Places like Unther and Mulhorand I could see holding onto chariots as a status-demarcator in the field, in part because of their cultural history and in part because they live in the right terrain for chariots to be useful. The chariot becomes the command post, soap box, and escape pod for the high muckety-mucks in charge of the army.

As mentioned above, chariots also could serve to move about the (living) magical artillery. I'd also point out that chariots would make a goods weapons platform for alchemical agents: thrusting into a dense enemy formation and pelting them with splash weapons, or increasing the obstruction and damage from skirmishing with things like smokesticks and tanglefoot bags.

In terms of specific cases...I don't know of any mentions of current regions using chariots...but speculatively:

Giants: while they can certainly pull off shock-and-awe without mounts, I could see the more sophisticated giant races using chariots both for practical battlefield mobility (rather than exhausting one's men running from sortie to sortie) and formation breaking (especially since the downfall of giants tends to be massed opposition by smaller folk--why risk oneself when you could risk some dumb animal instead?).

Also, giants do suffer from the technical limit that provoked the invention of chariots from the get-go: not enough animals big enough and strong to sustain their own equipped weight plus that of a fully-equipped rider.

Then again, maybe giants are more of the "send out the war elephants" style....

Dwarves: slow movement can be a real limiter on the field of battle, particularly if the enemy exploits that slowness to flank or otherwise outposition your position. Battle carts as mobile infantry fulfil a practical purpose for dwarves: it gets warriors from one place to another faster than their wee legs could.

Goblinoids: no real strong reason--hobgoblins and goblins are often militarily well-organized and cooperate pretty well. A combat team in a heavy chariot just seems fitting somehow.

In terms of past societies, I tend to visualize the Nar as using chariots drawn by teams of bound fiends--less as a strategically-viable choice, more as a display, but arguably with some unusual battefield applications.
MalariaMoon
05-04-07, 05:45 PM Just a few thoughts;

In many ancient cultures the chariot was a vehicle as opposed to a weapon of war. What I mean by this is it wasn't used as a means of breaking up formations and running down enemies, but rather as a quick getaway vehicle. A warrior would pull up his chariot with a screech of brakes (well perhaps a disgruntled whinny), leap out and whack an enemy, or hurl as many javelins as possible, then leap back on the chariot and escape before any other opponents could engage him. I think Tacitus or Julius Caesar describes the Celts using such a tactic in their war diaries.

However, this isn't the most exciting option for a swashbuckling Realms campaign. I'm sure the common chariot using regions would have some specific feats involving war chariots ie combat bonuses for using wheel scythes, special maneuvers or greater than normal speed, the ability to inflict structural damage on enemy chariots (ie bonuses on a called shot to smash the yoke linking the horses to the chariot, perhaps with a successful sunder attempt). With regards to weapons, anything with a long reach would be suitable. If your chariot has wheel scythes there is little use wielding a sword because any poor bloke who gets in range of your sword arm is already having his legs sawn off at the knees.

As you've mentioned, striking stationary targets from a moving chariot is likely to result in the weapon breaking (particularly spears or lances) or being pulled from the wielders hand. With this in mind, charioteers are more likely to use a number of cheap, disposable weapons, maybe going into battle with a rack of spears for example.

Also worth mentioning that the any chariot using nation is likely to put its spellcasters on wheels in a battlefield situation, although not all of them will be able to summon up a chariot like the good lady of Silverymoon's!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Burningspear 04-10-07, 10:50 PM	I am just wondering out loud here, witch civilizations would be into this kind of warfare?, apart of course from Unther , Mulhorand and Chessenta... and what weapons would be mostly used story wise on the back of a chariot? i am thinking here along the lines of: Any spear, Javelin, Longbow (incl. composite), Whip?, Mace, heavy?. And like in "Troy" movie, swinging a 2handed hammer along from the back of a chariot is way cool imo, and wielding 1 in 1 hand even cooler, if a tad difficult :plotting: and how to implement the effect of mounted charging?, if a spear hits, how does it affect the wielder and the movement after the hit?, usually it would seem to me that it would break, or the wielder would let it fall, after the target has been hit as it seems next to impossible to "unplug" the weapon from a target while moving opposite directions in comparison to the weapon. Any other ideas regarding this kind of combat style?
redmagefish 04-11-07, 07:14 PM	well alot of mages most likly favor a magic chariot like the ruler of sliverymoon use her fire chaiot to ride in and out of the sky casting spells a rich figher could buy a chariot at flies and use it to a weave in and out hitting the key leaders of a force but then again if you where a goblin would you akt the foot soilders or the fling charoit.it would be use full to the commders and priest. but driving one on the ground would be death the golbins would akt and kill the horses (good meat) and then the diver with there spears 5000 crude spear on a akt charoit force of 300 does not look good
Suin Bahhar 04-12-07, 06:49 PM	well alot of mages most likly favor a magic chariot like the ruler of sliverymoon use her fire chaiot to ride in and out of the sky casting spells a rich figher could buy a chariot at flies and use it to a weave in and out hitting the key leaders of a force but then again if you where a goblin would you akt the foot soilders or the fling charoit.it would be use full to the commders and priest. but driving one on the ground would be death the golbins would akt and kill the horses (good meat) and then the diver with there spears 5000 crude spear on a akt charoit force of 300 does not look good Oo
Suin Bahhar 04-12-07, 06:55 PM	Some inspirstiopn can always be had from the Roman arena chariot races. All gladiatoral weapon sets can be employed by a charioteer and driver. A net and trident, morningstar/gladius/spear and shield, etc. If you go for style use the scythe. The nastiest one you can find ^^
MarkusTay63 04-12-07, 08:06 PM	Calimshan has used chariots heavily in the past, along with bow technology they stole from the Tethir Elves. IMG, Calimshan came up against the early Mulhorandi ONE TIME, and that was how they learned about chariots. They were badly defeated in what they call the "Shaar War", but the Mulhorands refer to as "that tiny little annoying gnat that bit us once". But that part is just my take, as far as I know it doesn't mention in canon where the Calishites learned about them. The culture known as the Pazruki (northern KT) has been said to use Torcs (a Celtic item), and the neighboring Issacortae have a 'High King' or 'High Queen' and are nomadic. Both peoples are described as primitive and allow their women to have equality, even as warriors, also similar to the Celts. They are are an ancient related group of peoples that pre-date the coming of the Oriental Shou, so my guess is that they ARE in fact FR's version of Celts, perhaps going as far as saying that the early ancestors of these peoples (the Kalmyk?) built many of the Menhirs (standing Stones) that are used by Druids today. Therefore, I would say that the Western Issacortae that live along the Eastern shores of the Great Ice Sea probably use chariots in much the same way as the ancient Celts did, and I could see them utilizing them against the Steppe nomads when they clash on the plain of horses. Once again, thats all just conjecture on my part (the Celt tie-in), but it does make sense somewhat if you are looking for another group who possibly use chariots. The Calishites used the heavier two and three man chariots with archers, while the Issacortae would most likely use a single-man version. The early Chondath (Jamdath) are another possible chariot-using people, being similar in some ways to Greco-Roman culture, although they don't use them anymore (if ever). If they did, then they too would be another source for Calimshan to have learned from.
Burningspear 04-14-07, 03:39 AM	The culture known as the Pazruki (northern KT) has been said to use Torcs (a Celtic item), and the neighboring Issacortae have a 'High King' or 'High Queen' and are nomadic. Both peoples are described as primitive and allow their women to have equality, even as warriors, also similar to the Celts. They are are an ancient related group of peoples that pre-date the coming of the Oriental Shou, so my guess is that they ARE in fact FR's version of Celts, perhaps going as far as saying that the early ancestors of these peoples (the Kalmyk?) built many of the Menhirs (standing Stones) that are used by Druids today. Therefore, I would say that the Western Issacortae that live along the Eastern shores of the Great Ice Sea probably use chariots in much the same way as the ancient Celts did, and I could see them utilizing them against the Steppe nomads when they clash on the plain of horses. Once again, thats all just conjecture on my part (the Celt tie-in), but it does make sense somewhat if you are looking for another group who possibly use chariots. The early Chondath (Jamdath) are another possible chariot-using people, being similar in some ways to Greco-Roman culture, although they don't use them anymore (if ever). If they did, then they too would be another source for Calimshan to have learned from. I was actually more interested in current living realms, and i have a huge dislike for "Jaamdath" as that realm seems to be popping up its ugly head more then i care for. :plotting: That Pazruki thing i have never hear of, in all the years i have been playing ever sins 2e has never brought me in contact with this info, so i am unsure where u get this from. And no one has answered my question about the spear and how to unplug it from a target when moving in the opposite direction...
Burningspear 04-20-07, 10:16 PM	Still have not had a serious answer to my question yet. :bump:
Stigger 04-24-07, 07:48 AM	Possibly Thay, given its Mulhorandi origin, mostly as a mobile wizard conveyance I'd think... the Mulhorandi client states to the south and east of that nation as well perhaps. But, as far as I'm aware, Chariots require a good bit of relatively level ground to offset being flipped, so its probably fallen out of use in favor of cavalry. They're cool looking sure, but inferior to cavalry in most respects when it comes to maneuver warfare.
MarkusTay63 04-24-07, 02:54 PM	I was actually more interested in current living realms, and i have a huge dislike for "Jaamdath" as that realm seems to be popping up its ugly head more then i care for. :plotting:True, Jamdath no longer exists, I was just posing it as an unlikely source for Calimshan to have learned it. Since posting that, I have read that the Calishites 're-invented' the chariot from their earlier periods of history. The Shoon used them, and possibly the genie cultures before them. AFAIK, Calimshan STILL uses chariots, as does Mulhorand. That Pazruki thing i have never hear of, in all the years i have been playing ever sins 2e has never brought me in contact with this info, so i am unsure where u get this from.Most of it is from the Kara-Tur books, with a tiny bit taken from the Hordelands. There is nothing in the text that states that these people are Oriental in any way, and their culture is reminiscent of early Celtic. Although they are an ancient race, they still behave today as they did thousands of years ago, so running into their chariots East of Rashemen is a distinct possibility. It is never clearly stated weather they would have them, but given the cultural similarities I would hazard to guess they would, and they would be an effective and flavorful counter to the Tuigen to the south. And no one has answered my question about the spear and how to unplug it from a target when moving in the opposite direction...Claishite and most real world cultures used bows from chariots, and swords for close-combat. A spear would be a problem, given the limited manueverability INSIDE a chariot, but something similar to a a Yari (Oriental-spear) might work, or it's shorter cousin the Yarinage (javelin). Both employed a sword-like blade at the end, instead of the tip most often seen on western versions, and could be used for slashing. A charioteer would probably carry 3-5 of these for throwing. EDIT: I just re-read your OP, and I realize you were talking about the chariot's OPPONENT using a spear. If it's a normal hit, I would treat it in the usual manner (just damage, no other effect). If it's a critical, then I would say it got stuck and is doing 1-2 pnts of blood-loss damage until he is able to stop, remove the (probably broken) spear and bandage. In the RW he would probably die of an infection either way.
Burningspear 04-24-07, 11:35 PM	Claishite and most real world cultures used bows from chariots, and swords for close-combat. A spear would be a problem, given the limited manueverability INSIDE a chariot, but something similar to a a Yari (Oriental-spear) might work, or it's shorter cousin the Yarinage (javelin). Both employed a sword-like blade at the end, instead of the tip most often seen on western versions, and could be used for slashing. A charioteer would probably carry 3-5 of these for throwing. EDIT: I just re-read your OP, and I realize you were talking about the chariot's OPPONENT using a spear. If it's a normal hit, I would treat it in the usual manner (just damage, no other effect). If it's a critical, then I would say it got stuck and is doing 1-2 pnts of blood-loss damage until he is able to stop, remove the (probably broken) spear and bandage. In the RW he would probably die of an infection either way. Funny thing is, u misread it the 2nd time. As my intention was to have the chariot-rider wield a spear, and how would he unstuck it from his target, or would they be "one use" items basically? I will stick to the latter one use logic.
Yanagita Kunio 04-25-07, 02:33 AM	Sorry, Burningspear, but I'm approaching the question backwards. There are light, medium, and heavy chariots, which are used in slightly different, though overlapping, ways. Generalizing across cultures, chariots and chariot warriors historically alternated between the role of cavalry, mechanized infantry, and shock-and-awe. Light chariots like you see the pharoahs in Egyptian steles were for skirmishing: they're fast and do comparitively well on rough terrain, so you have the option of tearing around the battlefield and peppering the enemy with ranged attacks and/or hit-and-run melee [dismounted from the chariot]. They also allowed fast transport of commanders and other elites to where they were needed on the battlefield. Medium chariots like the Chinese and Hittite war "carts" would house both ranged and melee warriors--the idea was to position troops for sorties, then pack them up again and move to a new position. Heavy chariots like those used in ancient India were too slow for hit-and-run tactics, but with their size, weight, and momentum could be used for breaking formations...often with allied infantry following closely in their wake to exploit the gap. and what weapons would be mostly used story wise on the back of a chariot? Well, chariots were mostly used by Bronze-Age cultures, so the range of options partially reflects that, not just what was strategic. Light and Medium: bows, staff-slings, javelins, spears, axes, maces Heavy: all of the above plus, polearms (reach weapons). In an more-than Iron Age tech level, I'd say pretty much anything goes. Likely any chariot team would have some ranged weapons, some long-hafted weapons), and some weapons for close combat. and how to implement the effect of mounted charging? Were someone couching a lance in a chariot, presumably you'd get the same damage bonus on a charge while mounted...but an opponent set versus a charge would get the same benefits in turn. if a spear hits, how does it affect the wielder and the movement after the hit?, usually it would seem to me that it would break, or the wielder would let it fall, after the target has been hit as it seems next to impossible to "unplug" the weapon from a target while moving opposite directions in comparison to the weapon. In-game there's not really rules for this kind of event that I know of...(again, looking to standard charging rules for a template). Any other ideas regarding this kind of combat style? In a chariot you're more likely to be overriding an opponent than swiping them with a melee weapon in passing. I'd suggest looking at the Overrun/Trample rules in the PHB (pp157)--however, rather than doing just the hoof damage of the creature pulling, a chariot would either get a slam attack as an equivalent-sized Animated Object or a Trample effect as per the Monster Manual special attack [MM1, pp 316]. A passenger within a chariot would experience the same penalties as a mounted person when it comes to acceleration affecting ranged attacks and spells [PHB 157]--all that tossing about in a cart with no shocks has to take a toll on one's aim/concentration--but also the mounted bonuses to melee. The charioteer would make the Ride checks: in a light chariot this would be like the checks made by a rider, while in medium or heavy chariot there would be either an increase in the Ride check DC or more of the charioteer's turn consumed by controlling the rig and the team (ie a move action rather than a free action). Being within a chariot would provide cover for its occupant. Whether the degree of cover would vary by chariot size and armament, I'm not sure. I'm tempted to call a light chariot soft cover (AC bonus), while a medium or heavy chariot would be full cover (AC bonus and Reflex save bonus). Which civilizations would be into this kind of warfare? apart of course from Unther , Mulhorand and Chessenta... Extrapolating to Faerun, things like magic and supernatural beasts sort of muddy the water on the practical uses of chariots...on top of most of Faerun being well into the Iron Age and having access to lovely tech like the bridle and stirrups [that IRL contributed to the demise of the chariot]. Most military powers are going to pick regular cavalry (or aerial/supernatural variants thereof) over chariots: the former are more manueverable, more terrain-adaptable, less difficult to maintain. And while I can't speak for training a griffon- or giant eagle rider...it is easier (and cheaper in man-hours) to train someone to ride a horse than to handle a two-in-hand or four-in-hand. Places like Unther and Mulhorand I could see holding onto chariots as a status-demarcator in the field, in part because of their cultural history and in part because they live in the right terrain for chariots to be useful. The chariot becomes the command post, soap box, and escape pod for the high muckety-mucks in charge of the army. As mentioned above, chariots also could serve to move about the (living) magical artillery. I'd also point out that chariots would make a goods weapons platform for alchemical agents: thrusting into a dense enemy formation and pelting them with splash weapons, or increasing the obstruction and damage from skirmishing with things like smokesticks and tanglefoot bags. In terms of specific cases...I don't know of any mentions of current regions using chariots...but speculatively: Giants: while they can certainly pull off shock-and-awe without mounts, I could see the more sophisticated giant races using chariots both for practical battlefield mobility (rather than exhausting one's men running from sortie to sortie) and formation breaking (especially since the downfall of giants tends to be massed opposition by smaller folk--why risk oneself when you could risk some dumb animal instead?). Also, giants do suffer from the technical limit that provoked the invention of chariots from the get-go: not enough animals big enough and strong to sustain their own equipped weight plus that of a fully-equipped rider. Then again, maybe giants are more of the "send out the war elephants" style.... Dwarves: slow movement can be a real limiter on the field of battle, particularly if the enemy exploits that slowness to flank or otherwise outposition your position. Battle carts as mobile infantry fulfil a practical purpose for dwarves: it gets warriors from one place to another faster than their wee legs could. Goblinoids: no real strong reason--hobgoblins and goblins are often militarily well-organized and cooperate pretty well. A combat team in a heavy chariot just seems fitting somehow. In terms of past societies, I tend to visualize the Nar as using chariots drawn by teams of bound fiends--less as a strategically-viable choice, more as a display, but arguably with some unusual battefield applications.
MalariaMoon 05-04-07, 05:45 PM	Just a few thoughts; In many ancient cultures the chariot was a vehicle as opposed to a weapon of war. What I mean by this is it wasn't used as a means of breaking up formations and running down enemies, but rather as a quick getaway vehicle. A warrior would pull up his chariot with a screech of brakes (well perhaps a disgruntled whinny), leap out and whack an enemy, or hurl as many javelins as possible, then leap back on the chariot and escape before any other opponents could engage him. I think Tacitus or Julius Caesar describes the Celts using such a tactic in their war diaries. However, this isn't the most exciting option for a swashbuckling Realms campaign. I'm sure the common chariot using regions would have some specific feats involving war chariots ie combat bonuses for using wheel scythes, special maneuvers or greater than normal speed, the ability to inflict structural damage on enemy chariots (ie bonuses on a called shot to smash the yoke linking the horses to the chariot, perhaps with a successful sunder attempt). With regards to weapons, anything with a long reach would be suitable. If your chariot has wheel scythes there is little use wielding a sword because any poor bloke who gets in range of your sword arm is already having his legs sawn off at the knees. As you've mentioned, striking stationary targets from a moving chariot is likely to result in the weapon breaking (particularly spears or lances) or being pulled from the wielders hand. With this in mind, charioteers are more likely to use a number of cheap, disposable weapons, maybe going into battle with a rack of spears for example. Also worth mentioning that the any chariot using nation is likely to put its spellcasters on wheels in a battlefield situation, although not all of them will be able to summon up a chariot like the good lady of Silverymoon's!