Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Amryll 06-15-07, 04:07 AM	How would this work, say I wanted to have a draegloth using a short sword in each of its small hands? 2 claws, 2 shortswords and a bite?Assuming I have the feat, -2 to the claws and swords and-5 to the bite?
Suin Bahhar 06-15-07, 08:51 AM	I guess a Dreagloths vestigial lower hands are so small they have to wield a large shortsword twohanded and still have offhand damage with it. Also its not possible to get more attacks with natural weapons from a high AB. When combining multiweaponfighting with multiattacking you only have one primary attack. So I think its full attack would be like (with a AB of +11): 1 (primary) claw at +9 (1d6+6), 1 (secondary & offhand; -5 + -2) claw at +4 (1d6+3), 1 (secondary & offhand) bite +4 (1d8+3) and 1 (secondary & offhand) attack with the shortsword at +4 (1d8+3). (if bite attacks dont count as light weapons his bite would be at +2) But if you really want him to dual wield with his smaller arms he would attack at: +9 claw, +4 claw, +4 bite, +4 sword, +4 sword. But please make the short sword medium sized because the Dreagloths lower arms are really almost 2 categories smaller than their own large size.
Amryll 06-16-07, 06:51 AM	That makes sense, only a few things I dont get,the second claw would be primary and off hand,wouldnt it?Primary attack is both claws.Also, the bite, not sure where that fits, but I would have said just secondary,not really sure about it being "offhand".The part about smaller weapons does really make sense, I like that and it makes the whole mess seem a bit fairer. I was looking at the level progression thing,and according to that it would end up with 4 attacks at first level. No worse than a Thri-kreen, but still, 4 arms with a weapon in each, and all the two weapon feats a thri-kreen gets like 21 attacks,then give it dervish and things get messy.But I digress,You ideas were good,but for the two points.
Suin Bahhar 06-16-07, 10:07 AM	You are correct. When using mutliweapon fighting you have to chose a single primary attack, all others are offhand. The penalty for the secondary attack in a natural strike attacksequence applies only to that secondary attack (the bite). If a dreagloth combines claw attacks with a weapon attacks the rules starts to get hairy. Officially a dreagloth can attack multiple ways: choosing to use only 2 claws and a bite (i.e. a regular multiattack) _ +11 +11 +6 A dreagloth with multiatack feat can bite more easily: _ +11 +11 +9 If a dreagloth chooses to use weapons in his claws (which they detest) he'll have to take all normal penalties for fighting with 2 weapons and a secondary biteattack. A dreagloth with twoweaponfighting feat fighting with light weapons will attack: _ +9 +9 +4 Now allowing the dreagloths vestigial hands to wield small shortswords would give it 2 extra attacks: _ +9 +9 +9 +9 +4 If you're lenient on the players dont give him the ability to wield two twohanded weapons too.
MarkusTay63 06-16-07, 03:31 PM	Rules-wise that may work, but in reality I could see the shortswords getting in the way of the upper arms attacks. Perhaps allow nothing larger then daggers, but he could always use poison on them. If the character was a Rogue, backstabs could get VERY interesting. Also, if he uses the upper arms to grapple, then I would rule that the lower ones could keep stabbing the victim every turn with automatic hits. Personally, I like the idea of a Cestus or Bagh Nakh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagh_nakh) for weapons on the lower hands, because they just seem crueler and would work well on the smaller appendages. I don't even want to think what a Monk Draegloth would fight like! :eek: Flurry of blows would be INSANE!.