Leadership feat question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Leadership feat question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Suncapcd
04-17-07, 03:12 PM I am playing a cleric of Kossuth who has taken the leadership feat. If I remember correctly, the feat says the cohort is two levels lower than the character having the feat.

Now I am considering either a Salamander or Large Fire Elemental. Im leaning a bit towards the Salamander because they are more intelligent (14 vs 6) and can wear armor. The Fire Elemental does more damage though.

So I have two questions. First, in the case of non-humanish cohort, do you go off of HD or CR?

Secondly, what would you suggest between the two?

Thanks in advance for your responses.
Dielzen
04-17-07, 05:01 PM CR only has one use, that's to determine how tough it is for awarding XP. There's no corrolation between CR and any other numerical statistic in d20.

The closest you will get to level is to sum up the creature's Hit Dice and Level Adjustment, as that's what level you would be if you played one as a PC race. (Note that critters with 1 racial HD lose that HD when taking a level in a class, and gain the class's HD instead.) Also, while I don't believe there's an actual rule on it, I, as a DM, would not likely approve any cohort that's not an allowable PC race, from a balance standpoint. There are some exceptions to this stance, but that's another discussion :)
Dielzen
04-17-07, 05:06 PM Just poked around the actual feat and the epic variant. The epic version has a couple critters that have no ability to be played as PC races, but they are suitable mounts, or of a level so high that pre-epic couldn't be played as a PC race (and, for some silly reason, the books don't give LAs for epic critters that should, technically, be allowed as PC races).
Purple Dragon Knight
04-17-07, 10:42 PM I'd go for the salamander if I was you... the fire elemental can't wear magic items, for obvious reasons... the salamander, at least, might* be able to! :D

(*i.e. assuming it's not something that can catch fire... the salamander is at least solid and can support items ;) )
Stigger
04-18-07, 01:30 AM CR matters for epic summoning spells, since you seem to go off of CR of the creature summoned for spellcraft DC, rather than the HD... though I'm pretty sure its the HD that matters for cohorts, rather than the DC. Draconomicon seems to indicate that at least for dragon cohorts, though I'll note I only really glanced through it.
King_Neckchopper
04-18-07, 10:07 AM I have a similar question about the leader ship feat. I'm playing a Death Knight who has the undead leadership feat. He is a 10 Lv Blackguard, 1 ex-Paladin, 2 Psychic warrior his total ecl is 18, because of the Death Knights +5 Level adjustment. Would his cohort be 16 lv or what? One of my friends was telling me something different.

I would go for the salamander too.
Armedes
04-18-07, 12:01 PM So I have two questions. First, in the case of non-humanish cohort, do you go off of HD or CR?

Secondly, what would you suggest between the two?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

You go off of HD + ECL to get the Total.

Second.. I think I like the Salamader better..
Armedes
04-18-07, 12:18 PM I have a similar question about the leader ship feat. I'm playing a Death Knight who has the undead leadership feat. He is a 10 Lv Blackguard, 1 ex-Paladin, 2 Psychic warrior his total ecl is 18, because of the Death Knights +5 Level adjustment. Would his cohort be 16 lv or what? One of my friends was telling me something different.

I would go for the salamander too.

Yes I believe that is correct. (as long as your leadership score was high enough to gain that lv of follower).

Also being a Death Knight you attrack Undead because you're cool. So they would NOT count against your Leadership Undead.
King_Neckchopper
04-18-07, 12:46 PM Thanks I did'nt even think about that, its nice to know. Ant suggestions for a undead cohort?? If you wan to read My characters BIO check out General Naraku in the Book of Aber-Toril Thread.
Armedes
04-18-07, 01:23 PM Best cohort for a fighter type is an undead caster. IF your DM is ok with it have it be a lich, (Wiz/Sor or Cleric) Lich template is +4 adds lots of bonuses for the caster and is good for nearly any caster. They MUST be an 11th lv caster to survrive..

If you could wait a lv and wanted a little bit of a warrior swing Id go with Fighter 1/ Wiz 5/Eldrich Knight (dmg) 7th.. this would be 11th lv caster.. good BAB, good in the magic department and good at fighting having a DR of 15/Magic & Bludg..

Another option I used before was a Ghost of a fomer lover (Sorcerer) that was unwilling to pass without her husband. Ghost Sorcerer works well have teleport and if you have a ghost touch weapon she can cast spells that require touch on you via the weapon..

Then there is the Corpse and Bone Creatures from BovD.. good route on just general undead. (much better if made with a person with the Corpse Crafter Feats from Libris Mortis)..
King_Neckchopper
04-18-07, 01:35 PM I was origanally thinking Lich but I don't know if my DM would go for it. I also love the Eldritch Knight suggestion, I think that would be perfect for my character. Being the General of a Undead/Demonic army, I think the Eldritch Knight makes alot of sense.

why would I have to wait a level?
Armedes
04-18-07, 01:49 PM Total caster LV for the eldrich Knight option is 11th lv (minumum for Lich) but an ECL of 17.. (Fighter 1, Mage 5, EK 7, Lich +4) (note I just corrected my post above because EK should be 7th for Caster lv of 11th. )
King_Neckchopper
04-18-07, 02:15 PM What if my cohort is just a wizard/ EK with the militia regional feat? Militia grants profeciency with all martial weapons, I think I can do it then. I'd loose a +1 bab and for save and a feat but I dont think I can wait a level or 2. Evil campaigns are tough. good guys come strapped hard core.
Armedes
04-18-07, 02:36 PM If you can make the Caster Lv sooner, go for it.. that was off the top of my head with no detailed research.

Missing BAB is fine.. you can use spells to boost your Attack.. (Bulls str, True strike, etc) to get your attack up.. its more important you use that DR to your full advantage (along with the Immune to cold, elect, etc..) Liches are very power.. and there natural attack is well very cool.. You'll have to decide if Sorc is good enough or if you want a versitility via Mage..
King_Neckchopper
04-18-07, 02:43 PM I would totally go with Wizard because this cohort will be in a support role for me. I also do really like Sorcorers. i think that INT is more useful than CHR, higher INT more skill points, High CHR more ??? Do you do you know anything about a psionic lich? can manifester level take the place of caster level in the lich's requirement?

Also Suncapcd, i'd like to know what did you go with the Salamander or Fire elemental?
Armedes
04-18-07, 02:49 PM I prefer wiz as well, for the same reason.. And I don't know about Psions.. Player of mine killed any chance of any Psion's in my game.. Made a very sick one in 3rd ed and after that was never able to look upon them without dread and hate.. :rant:
King_Neckchopper
04-18-07, 03:44 PM Well thanks for your help. I put up a thread about the Psionic Lich, if anyone ever post in it check it out.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Suncapcd 04-17-07, 03:12 PM	I am playing a cleric of Kossuth who has taken the leadership feat. If I remember correctly, the feat says the cohort is two levels lower than the character having the feat. Now I am considering either a Salamander or Large Fire Elemental. Im leaning a bit towards the Salamander because they are more intelligent (14 vs 6) and can wear armor. The Fire Elemental does more damage though. So I have two questions. First, in the case of non-humanish cohort, do you go off of HD or CR? Secondly, what would you suggest between the two? Thanks in advance for your responses.
Dielzen 04-17-07, 05:01 PM	CR only has one use, that's to determine how tough it is for awarding XP. There's no corrolation between CR and any other numerical statistic in d20. The closest you will get to level is to sum up the creature's Hit Dice and Level Adjustment, as that's what level you would be if you played one as a PC race. (Note that critters with 1 racial HD lose that HD when taking a level in a class, and gain the class's HD instead.) Also, while I don't believe there's an actual rule on it, I, as a DM, would not likely approve any cohort that's not an allowable PC race, from a balance standpoint. There are some exceptions to this stance, but that's another discussion :)
Dielzen 04-17-07, 05:06 PM	Just poked around the actual feat and the epic variant. The epic version has a couple critters that have no ability to be played as PC races, but they are suitable mounts, or of a level so high that pre-epic couldn't be played as a PC race (and, for some silly reason, the books don't give LAs for epic critters that should, technically, be allowed as PC races).
Purple Dragon Knight 04-17-07, 10:42 PM	I'd go for the salamander if I was you... the fire elemental can't wear magic items, for obvious reasons... the salamander, at least, might* be able to! :D (*i.e. assuming it's not something that can catch fire... the salamander is at least solid and can support items ;) )
Stigger 04-18-07, 01:30 AM	CR matters for epic summoning spells, since you seem to go off of CR of the creature summoned for spellcraft DC, rather than the HD... though I'm pretty sure its the HD that matters for cohorts, rather than the DC. Draconomicon seems to indicate that at least for dragon cohorts, though I'll note I only really glanced through it.
King_Neckchopper 04-18-07, 10:07 AM	I have a similar question about the leader ship feat. I'm playing a Death Knight who has the undead leadership feat. He is a 10 Lv Blackguard, 1 ex-Paladin, 2 Psychic warrior his total ecl is 18, because of the Death Knights +5 Level adjustment. Would his cohort be 16 lv or what? One of my friends was telling me something different. I would go for the salamander too.
Armedes 04-18-07, 12:01 PM	So I have two questions. First, in the case of non-humanish cohort, do you go off of HD or CR? Secondly, what would you suggest between the two? Thanks in advance for your responses. You go off of HD + ECL to get the Total. Second.. I think I like the Salamader better..
Armedes 04-18-07, 12:18 PM	I have a similar question about the leader ship feat. I'm playing a Death Knight who has the undead leadership feat. He is a 10 Lv Blackguard, 1 ex-Paladin, 2 Psychic warrior his total ecl is 18, because of the Death Knights +5 Level adjustment. Would his cohort be 16 lv or what? One of my friends was telling me something different. I would go for the salamander too. Yes I believe that is correct. (as long as your leadership score was high enough to gain that lv of follower). Also being a Death Knight you attrack Undead because you're cool. So they would NOT count against your Leadership Undead.
King_Neckchopper 04-18-07, 12:46 PM	Thanks I did'nt even think about that, its nice to know. Ant suggestions for a undead cohort?? If you wan to read My characters BIO check out General Naraku in the Book of Aber-Toril Thread.
Armedes 04-18-07, 01:23 PM	Best cohort for a fighter type is an undead caster. IF your DM is ok with it have it be a lich, (Wiz/Sor or Cleric) Lich template is +4 adds lots of bonuses for the caster and is good for nearly any caster. They MUST be an 11th lv caster to survrive.. If you could wait a lv and wanted a little bit of a warrior swing Id go with Fighter 1/ Wiz 5/Eldrich Knight (dmg) 7th.. this would be 11th lv caster.. good BAB, good in the magic department and good at fighting having a DR of 15/Magic & Bludg.. Another option I used before was a Ghost of a fomer lover (Sorcerer) that was unwilling to pass without her husband. Ghost Sorcerer works well have teleport and if you have a ghost touch weapon she can cast spells that require touch on you via the weapon.. Then there is the Corpse and Bone Creatures from BovD.. good route on just general undead. (much better if made with a person with the Corpse Crafter Feats from Libris Mortis)..
King_Neckchopper 04-18-07, 01:35 PM	I was origanally thinking Lich but I don't know if my DM would go for it. I also love the Eldritch Knight suggestion, I think that would be perfect for my character. Being the General of a Undead/Demonic army, I think the Eldritch Knight makes alot of sense. why would I have to wait a level?
Armedes 04-18-07, 01:49 PM	Total caster LV for the eldrich Knight option is 11th lv (minumum for Lich) but an ECL of 17.. (Fighter 1, Mage 5, EK 7, Lich +4) (note I just corrected my post above because EK should be 7th for Caster lv of 11th. )
King_Neckchopper 04-18-07, 02:15 PM	What if my cohort is just a wizard/ EK with the militia regional feat? Militia grants profeciency with all martial weapons, I think I can do it then. I'd loose a +1 bab and for save and a feat but I dont think I can wait a level or 2. Evil campaigns are tough. good guys come strapped hard core.
Armedes 04-18-07, 02:36 PM	If you can make the Caster Lv sooner, go for it.. that was off the top of my head with no detailed research. Missing BAB is fine.. you can use spells to boost your Attack.. (Bulls str, True strike, etc) to get your attack up.. its more important you use that DR to your full advantage (along with the Immune to cold, elect, etc..) Liches are very power.. and there natural attack is well very cool.. You'll have to decide if Sorc is good enough or if you want a versitility via Mage..
King_Neckchopper 04-18-07, 02:43 PM	I would totally go with Wizard because this cohort will be in a support role for me. I also do really like Sorcorers. i think that INT is more useful than CHR, higher INT more skill points, High CHR more ??? Do you do you know anything about a psionic lich? can manifester level take the place of caster level in the lich's requirement? Also Suncapcd, i'd like to know what did you go with the Salamander or Fire elemental?
Armedes 04-18-07, 02:49 PM	I prefer wiz as well, for the same reason.. And I don't know about Psions.. Player of mine killed any chance of any Psion's in my game.. Made a very sick one in 3rd ed and after that was never able to look upon them without dread and hate.. :rant:
King_Neckchopper 04-18-07, 03:44 PM	Well thanks for your help. I put up a thread about the Psionic Lich, if anyone ever post in it check it out.