Post/Author/DateTime	Post
creeder_03 08-02-07, 02:46 AM	This should be a pretty simple question to answer, I feel stupid asking it. If I have a character who has claw attacks and wields a one handed manufactered weapon. If he attacks with his manufactured weapon using a full attack action taking all his attacks from a high base attack bonus, then he makes a claw attack using his off hand, what would the penalties be? The character does not have the two weapon fighting feat. Do the standard two weapon fighting rules apply when using a natural attack as your off hand weapon? Thanks for the help.
Valgard 08-02-07, 07:15 AM	The glossary in the Monster Manual for manufactured weapons says something regarding this: Some creatures combine attacks with natural and manufactured weapons when they make a full attack. When they do so, the manufactured weapon attack is considered the primary attack unless the weapon description indicates otherwise (using the manufactures weapon consumes most of the creature's attention), and any natural wepons the creature also uses are considered secondary natural attacks. These secondary attacks do not interfere with the primary attack as attacking with an off-hand weapon does, but they take the usual -5 penalty (or -2 with the Multiattack feat) for such attacks, even if the natural weapon used is normally the creature's primary natural weapon This does not say anything about multiple attacks due to high base attack bonus. If you look for examples in the book, you get this question answered. If you look the werewolf lord, he has a base attack of +14/+9/+4. In hybrid form, one of his full attack uses a +2 bastard sword with three attacks (+27/+22/+17 with no penalty, if you look to the single attack with the +2 bastard sword it's also +27) plus his bite (+20, resulted from +14 BAB plus +11 Str (32) plus -5 secondary natural attack), so you may use multiple attacks from high base attack bonus.
creeder_03 08-02-07, 08:23 AM	Great that's How I was hoping it worked, thank you for the quick reply.
dragonheart 08-10-07, 08:58 AM	essentially you can use either a single attack with teh melee weapon and then the rest of your attacks from the full attack (the attacks granted from increased BAB) for the natural attacks without further penalty - OR - you can take all your full attack strikes with the manufactured weapon and then take the natural attacks but with all attacks taking the various two weapon penalties. this gives you a lot more attacks but not much real chance of hitting until high level. If you want to improve this option then you need to take the two weapon feat and its latter additions. I'm assuming your PC is basically a 2 armed being with clawed hands - one holding the manufactured weapon and one available for the claw attack(s).
godbeepit 08-15-07, 11:37 PM	And no, that's not a stupid question at all. I don't know anyone who would take the time to learn that rule unless their PC was going to need to. And just in case you feel like you need to prove it officially, the D&D main page has a whopping four articles, or something like that, on two-weapon fighting and all its varieties. I would link you, but alas the page is down right now.:weep:
The WarOverlord 09-06-07, 11:41 PM	This should be a pretty simple question to answer, I feel stupid asking it. If I have a character who has claw attacks and wields a one handed manufactered weapon. If he attacks with his manufactured weapon using a full attack action taking all his attacks from a high base attack bonus, then he makes a claw attack using his off hand, what would the penalties be? The character does not have the two weapon fighting feat. Do the standard two weapon fighting rules apply when using a natural attack as your off hand weapon? Thanks for the help. It's usually considered "bad form" or "dirty fighting" to puch, kick, bite, headbutt, and such while fighting with a "Gentlemen's Weapon" such as a longsword. Pfft. I'd do a Moe to Curley two finger Eye Jabb if it gives me an advantage and while I'd expect the "Curley Block" my Sword is coming from the other way at the same time as is my Knee to the Crotch....lol Kick, bite, spit, and fart at the enemy for all I care....
dragonheart 09-15-07, 12:18 AM	in a sport (fencing) there are rules and "fairplay" in a real combat there is only one rule: WIN! no such thing as fairplay - every nasty trick you can learn is relavant. :D
keldor 10-04-07, 07:11 PM	in a sport (fencing) there are rules and "fairplay" in a real combat there is only one rule: WIN! no such thing as fairplay - every nasty trick you can learn is relavant. :D Not true for certain character classes e.g. paladins would never stoop to nasty tricks. Other character types, e.g. swashbuckler, take great pride in fighting with grace, style, and wit.:D