Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Paragon_of_Tyr 03-08-07, 11:28 AM	Any thoughts of making the Moonblade from Magic of Faerun into a Weapon of Legacy? The book almost seemed inspired by it... too bad they never made an entry of it inside.
The Jake 03-11-07, 11:53 PM	Yes I am working on one right now and looking for advice/recommendations and any 3.5E versions of them. Essentially, the PCs are planning on fighting an extraplanar beastie. According to research only weapons of the most extraordinary might can hurt them. In game terms, I've translated that to mean epic items, artifacts and weapons of legacy. Therefore the players have begun to quest and determine what methods they can use to unlock the various weapons of legacy. They've also learned that the leiutenants (sp?) of the main tyrant in the region have been issued with such weapons, stolen from the tombs of great heroes. The tyrant's chief concerns are that the weapons could be used to kill said extraplanar beastie. One of the PCs is an elf and is following in the footsteps of his father. Thus it seemed fair that a moonblade would make a perfect weapon of legacy.
Critalondel 03-12-07, 11:21 AM	Y'know, not every magic elven sword is a Moonblade. MOST, in fact, aren't. Moonblades weren't designed with their number one job being "kick ass sword" -- they were created to judge character and help select a royal family. In a way, all their fancy schmancy magical abilities are just side effects. And they certainly don't grow on trees away from Evermeet. Give him some cool ancestral blade, sure, if that's what'll float your boat. But why call it a Moonblade, unless your character's very specifically a Moon Elf, and somewhere in line with the royal court, etc, etc?
theartistformerlyknownas 03-12-07, 03:54 PM	Moonblades are minor artifacts, not legacy weapons. They should not place restrictions on the player, as Weapons of Legacy do. Most moonblades are, in fact, dormant. Most of them were deactivated after the King of Evermeet was selected because that was their purpose. After the moonblades collectively selected the Royal family, their purpose was fulfilled according to elven prophecy and the Elven High Magic ritual (every moonblade was created simultaneously after the Crown Wars) they ceased to be moonblades, and kind of shut off. You could theoretically have an ancient elven sword that once was a moonblade, but it makes little sense for the character to have one unless they are a lost heir to a noble moon elven house. The only moonblades that stayed active are the ones that will choose the princes and kings of future elven realms in Faerun. But then again, it is your game, and quite a bit of fun to play elves with moonblades. It's not only a title of nobility, but a huge responsibility to have all the noble ancestors of your line watching and judging you. The latent sentience in the blade is the collective spirits of your ancestors, which cannot pass to Arvandor until the blades purpose is fulfilled. The catch is that you join them when you die. So no resurrection for you! This is why I try so hard to create unique and potent magic weapons for my higher level players. They don't really understand the consequences of having a moonblade yet, and they don't really know enough about the Realms to know all the other great artifacts of the that they could find for their characters.
The Jake 03-13-07, 12:02 AM	AFAIK, moonblades were handed down family lines, often with their own rich tapestry of history. If thats not a legacy weapon, then I don't know what is. In my campaign, I am not applying penalties for legacy weapons as we're treating the advancement as being inline with standard D&D treasure awards (which is the common house rule with Weapons of Legacy it seems). Moonblades seemed like a good choice since the players are moving into an elven tomb and one of the PCs fathers' is buried there. Having his son find his father's blade there seemed like a nice touch (its a campaign goal that each player is trying to find a weapon of legacy to aid in an upcoming battle against a major campaign foe).
Critalondel 03-13-07, 04:21 AM	So you can still have him find his father's sword, and it can still be a cool potent magic item -- I just don't see why it has to be a Moonblade.
dragonheart 03-13-07, 08:43 PM	Agreed! I sort of hate to say it but basically I see using things like moonblades for every fancy elven sword as lazyness on the DM's part (twice) once for not doing the research to find out just what a moonblade is/was and why it rpobably shouldn't be used. and a second time for the fact that by doing it you've just removed a major peice of role play for the PC in terms of learning/inventing the family history, developing the PC's personality (now he is one more freaking noble elf - like we need another one). make the PC/player get creative in coming up wiht a family history that justifies a weapon of legacy (and make sure it somehow relates to the campaign as well so the sword will be useful later) make the PC have to really earn the blade - as written that judgement is made by the blade of a moonblade when you first draw it not by yoru play with it over time. Have your charaters have weapons of legacy that they have to slowly over several adventures activate sounds like a great campaign why ruin it with moonblades?
theartistformerlyknownas 03-14-07, 01:53 AM	I have to admit, I have a character that wields a moonblade. He's a wood elf (descended from a wood elf mother and a half-moon elven father). He happens to be the last descendant of Jassin Aunglor (for those not familiar with the history of the Tangled Vale and Cormanthyr, he was the moon elf noble that slew the mate of the ancient wyrm Venom). Neither Jassin's nor Venom's body were ever recovered, and the moonblade of House Aunglor was thought lost... But the baelnorn of the Sy'Tel'Quess, of the clan of Audark, the last of their noble line, in commune with the spirits of the vale, sought out and laid to rest the body of Jassin, and the blade, to their surprise, was still active. Dormant, but still alive with all the gathered power of the elven spirits within. There would be another heir. The Audarks would keep the sword and watch over it until the day the Aunglor line revealed itself. And Root, the wayward stranger, wandered into the Vale of Lost Voices to discover who he was. An amnesiac, Root (once known as Taeleraed, and once known as a talented sorcerer in the Art) traveled to the vale to pay respects to the father he could not remember. And the Audark's knew the son of Aunglor was upon them. They beckoned to him, and made a promise that the young elf would not refuse. They promised to show him who he really was. They asked a favor, a boon: the descendant of an old enemy was threatening their vale. They asked the young elf to slay the grand-heir of Venom and his mate, and return a single item from its hoard. A single wood and leather scabbard. Return the trinket and slay the beast, and the secrets of who he was would be his. It took a tenday, but the wayward elf caught the trail of the grandson of Venom. After pursuing the dragon through trackless wilderness, Root discovered its lair. Drawing it out with the Last Song of the Lost Voices, the tale describing the defeat of Venom at the hands of Jassin, the dragon, raging at the insult, flew out and destroyed acres of land. Root fought valiantly, and through sheer dumb luck or the will the Seldarine, the legacy of Venom was dead. And so Root returned, the scabbard in hand. The Audarks delivered on their promise and gave him the blade they had guarded for so long. "I do not recognize this blade" argued the young wood elf. "You may not recognize the blade, elfling, but the blade recognizes you. Take it, and it shall show you who you really are..." And so a wood elf claimed the line of a moon elven prince. And a moonblade was introduced to our campaign.
The Jake 03-17-07, 12:57 AM	I'm not really interested in people's opinions on what constitutes a weapon of legacy, whether a moonblade is appropriate or not, etc. I'm not really interested in other people's opinions if they think its a good idea or not. I have already stated what it is I am attempting to do in my campaign. What I am looking for is ways to achieve this or 3.0/3.5E rules/guidelines on moonblades (Dragon is acceptable). Existing moonblades that have been made are also welcome. I think there are some in LEoF but I cannot recall exactly. If someone has any ideas or guides on how I could create one however, I would be greatly appreciated. If you don't have anything constructive to add, I'd prefer that you post elsewhere. Thanks.
AbyssKnight 03-18-07, 03:31 AM	The only 3.x information on moonblades that I know of is in Magic of Faerun, pg. 170-171. I think it is a great idea, and could be done very well. Sorry, I don't know enough about legacy weapons to help more. theartistformerlyknownas, you seem to have things a bit backwords. The moonblades didn't go dormant when the elven king was chosen. The moonblades becoming dormant is what chose who would be the king. The moonblades were created all at one time, as you say. They were given to the various noble moon elf families. They test each wielder for "worthiness" killing the unworthy. Once there are no more living members of that line, they become dormant. After a while, the family with the greatest number of still active moonblades was selected to rule. But any still active moonblades didn't just turn off when this happened. They continue, just as before, except there is already a king. However, this doesn't mean they will choose the kings of future realms or anything. So far, we have seen one new elven realm created, and one restored, and neithers' rulers were chosen by moonblades. Their task is done, but some remain. Also, moonblades can be re-awakened. Elaith "the Serpent" of Waterdeep had a dormant moonblade (as the last of his line he was not killed, the sword just deactivated since he was unworthy). Through heoric action, and selfless though of his newborn daughter, the blade flared to life. Elaith now keeps it for his daughter, once she comes of age to be tested. You don't have to be royal, or even recognized as noble by the elven court. You just have to be a blood relative to one of the noble elven families who originally recieved the moonblades.
Old Sage 03-18-07, 08:05 AM	The purpose of the moonblades was to select a ruling family for Evermeet. That's it. And they've accomplished that. The Moonflowers are the ruling family of Evermeet. As for 3.5e moonblades, you'll find that the lore will shift rather dramatically in the sixth and final 'Songs & Swords' novel. This will wrap up the story of the moonblades in Faerun, a tale that began with the novel Elfshadow.
Zsych 03-18-07, 08:37 AM	In their basic form, they only work for a specific elven family, and then only if they think the guy is worthy(and many fairly decent guys have apparently been refused and possibly killed by the things). Drop by Larloch and offer him a lot of your magical loot, if he'll lend you something worthwhile :P
Lord Karsus 03-20-07, 09:24 AM	-Every time a conversation like this pops up, Elaine Cunningham sheds a tear...:( Don't make Elaine cry...:mad:
Alediran 03-20-07, 10:06 AM	-Every time a conversation like this pops up, Elaine Cunningham sheds a tear...:( Don't make Elaine cry...:mad: *A horde of elves from Evermeet backs LK* Connections with the royal family are useful sometimes :D
Lord Karsus 03-20-07, 01:13 PM	*A horde of elves from Evermeet backs LK* Connections with the royal family are useful sometimes :D -Elves really don't form Hordes. They're a bit too civilized for that. Now, an army is fine...:cool:
Alediran 03-20-07, 02:28 PM	-Elves really don't form Hordes. They're a bit too civilized for that. Now, an army is fine...:cool: Except that this is a Horde of disgruntled elves who are annoyed by how bad they were played on many campaigns.
moboley 03-20-07, 05:16 PM	The purpose of the moonblades was to select a ruling family for Evermeet. That's it. And they've accomplished that. The Moonflowers are the ruling family of Evermeet. As for 3.5e moonblades, you'll find that the lore will shift rather dramatically in the sixth and final 'Songs & Swords' novel. This will wrap up the story of the moonblades in Faerun, a tale that began with the novel Elfshadow. I don't think that was the Moonblades only purpose. Each Moon elf family was gifted a Moonblade, which made the Sun Elf Houses very jealous as I remember. The Moonblade passed from worthy wielder to worthy wielder. They were meant to be a force for good, an item with a good purpose. As such, the unworthy wielders sometimes killed and the blade would go dormant until a worthy wielder was found. Recent literature, between the Song and Swords series and the recent Moonblade short story in the Realms of the Elves novel suggests that Moonblades are still out there, waiting to be claimed by someone worthy to wield them. The only requirements seem to be some elf-blood (half elfs obviously will do) and surviving the judgment of the moonblade. Another recent novel, showed a dormant moonblade being transformed during a magical ritual and becoming a new type of magic sword with a new purpose. I can't quote what it became, but go read 'Blackstaff' yourself. Anyway, my point is this, moonblades still exist. MoF introduced them as minor artifacts. While treating them as a legacy weapon is an interesting touch, I personally probably wouldn't do it, simply because the rules on creating them in MoF are fairly clear and it goes against the general purpose of the Moonblades in general. BUT! It's your campaign! Do it how you want to do it! The early abilities should be of relatively low power and the 'older' the blade gets, the more powerful the abilities become. The rules for the legacy weapons allow for the abilities to be changed by a current wielder. You could always follow the example above and magically alter the moonblade to become something new, hence a new legacy weapon type. Use the tables from the MoF as a guide for the various abilities that the moonblade could/would earn as a legacy weapon. It's not a bad idea. Phooey on those who feel the need to ridicule.
Old Sage 03-20-07, 07:49 PM	Elaine tells us that - "No new moonblades will ever be created, with or without the blessing of the elven gods. They have served their purpose; their time is past. This doesn't mean that new swords with similar powers can't be created, but they will not be moonblades." With regard to the possibility of finding more moonblades, Elaine says - "When Zaor was chosen as king, there were twenty-five living moonblades. That was quite some time ago, and I doubt there are more than eight or nine in active use. Its possible that a few others retain their magic, but have become so powerful that any attempt to claim them is virtually suidical. It seems likely that these too-powerful swords will go dormant in time. Each sword that retains its powers probably has a significant role to play in the history of the People. It is impossible for an adventurer to find a living moonblade in a treasure trove and add it to his weapon collection. Anyone who is not of the direct family line will be slain when he attempts to draw the sword. It is possible to use a dormant moonblade as if it were any other well-made elven sword. Those who contemplate this course of action, however, should keep in mind that elves would consider this a mortal offense. He should expect to be challenged by the first elf he encounters. If he relinquishes the blade willingly, the matter might -- MIGHT -- be resolved without bloodshed. No elf would carry a dormant blade belonging to another clan -- that's extremely taboo. Few elves would carry their family's dormant blade, for obvious matters of pride. Elaith carried his in Elfsong, and this revealed both his resolve and his sense of estrangement from elven proprieties."
GothicDan 03-20-07, 08:21 PM	Dear Bob I love Elaine's replies. No beating around the bush to overly accomodate the 'anyone can try anything' approach; myth and history defined directly as it was (in part) in actual legends and tales... Anyway, I really don't have anything against designing a Moonblade using the Weapons of Legacy rules - provided that the negatives are certainly kept out. That, perhaps most of all, seems utterly ridiculous to me, specifically because it is very obviously for 'balance.' It reminds me of nothing more than a gerbil running around in a wheel, never knowing that he's getting nowhere.
moboley 03-21-07, 10:43 AM	Elaine tells us that - "No new moonblades will ever be created, with or without the blessing of the elven gods. They have served their purpose; their time is past. This doesn't mean that new swords with similar powers can't be created, but they will not be moonblades." With regard to the possibility of finding more moonblades, Elaine says - "When Zaor was chosen as king, there were twenty-five living moonblades. That was quite some time ago, and I doubt there are more than eight or nine in active use. Its possible that a few others retain their magic, but have become so powerful that any attempt to claim them is virtually suidical. It seems likely that these too-powerful swords will go dormant in time. Each sword that retains its powers probably has a significant role to play in the history of the People. It is impossible for an adventurer to find a living moonblade in a treasure trove and add it to his weapon collection. Anyone who is not of the direct family line will be slain when he attempts to draw the sword. It is possible to use a dormant moonblade as if it were any other well-made elven sword. Those who contemplate this course of action, however, should keep in mind that elves would consider this a mortal offense. He should expect to be challenged by the first elf he encounters. If he relinquishes the blade willingly, the matter might -- MIGHT -- be resolved without bloodshed. No elf would carry a dormant blade belonging to another clan -- that's extremely taboo. Few elves would carry their family's dormant blade, for obvious matters of pride. Elaith carried his in Elfsong, and this revealed both his resolve and his sense of estrangement from elven proprieties." While I definitely respect Elaine's work and loved everything she wrote, that's not to say that DM's, WOTC's Game Designer's, or other authors won't write adventures or stories including a Moonblade. A DM can do whatever he wants with his campaign. While Elaine's personal views as an author and creator of the Moonblade concept (might be wrong here) should be considered, ultimately, it's up to the DM to decide what he wants to do with his campaign. At least one other author has written a story, in RotE, about a moonblade that was plundered from an elven crypt and ended up in the possession of a half-elf and became active again. There's no evidence in this short story that this character is related to the bloodline of the moonblade in anyway. If we are relying on the works of the authors to dictate our views on moonblades in a D&D game, this would seem to run counter those views quoted above. And I'm not sure if the remark about the creation of a new moonblade was in reference to my statement about the moonblade being transformed or as a general reference to the original question that began this thread. But I didn't say anything about creating new moonblades. Obviously, these moonblades were minor artifacts that were created at one time with the blessing of the gods. Their creation can never be duplicated. I won't contest that. Given the stated literary evidence, I wouldn't say that it is 'impossible' to find a moonblade somewhere, though I would agree that it would be highly unlikely to be found in a treasure cache, more likely it would be found in an elven tomb or in the possession of someone who had already plundered such a locale. I also would point out that given this evidence and the rules provided in MoF, the statement that anyone not in the direct family line would be immediately slain is not entirely accurate. That was the original intent when the moonblade concept was created, but the D&D game/MoF purposely left it ambiguous for gaming purposes. The only requirement listed for game terms is that the wielder must have elf blood. Whether a moonblade should be thrown willy-nilly into a campaign is a matter for each individual DM to decide. I personally have considered it, but have never done it. I've never had a worthy elven warrior or bladesinger in my campaigns.
moboley 03-21-07, 10:52 AM	Elaine tells us that - "No new moonblades will ever be created, with or without the blessing of the elven gods. They have served their purpose; their time is past. This doesn't mean that new swords with similar powers can't be created, but they will not be moonblades." With regard to the possibility of finding more moonblades, Elaine says - "When Zaor was chosen as king, there were twenty-five living moonblades. That was quite some time ago, and I doubt there are more than eight or nine in active use. Its possible that a few others retain their magic, but have become so powerful that any attempt to claim them is virtually suidical. It seems likely that these too-powerful swords will go dormant in time. Each sword that retains its powers probably has a significant role to play in the history of the People. It is impossible for an adventurer to find a living moonblade in a treasure trove and add it to his weapon collection. Anyone who is not of the direct family line will be slain when he attempts to draw the sword. It is possible to use a dormant moonblade as if it were any other well-made elven sword. Those who contemplate this course of action, however, should keep in mind that elves would consider this a mortal offense. He should expect to be challenged by the first elf he encounters. If he relinquishes the blade willingly, the matter might -- MIGHT -- be resolved without bloodshed. No elf would carry a dormant blade belonging to another clan -- that's extremely taboo. Few elves would carry their family's dormant blade, for obvious matters of pride. Elaith carried his in Elfsong, and this revealed both his resolve and his sense of estrangement from elven proprieties." While I definitely respect Elaine's work and loved everything she wrote, that's not to say that DM's, WOTC's Game Designer's, or other authors won't write adventures or stories including a Moonblade. A DM can do whatever he wants with his campaign. While Elaine's personal views as an author and creator of the Moonblade concept (might be wrong here) should be considered, ultimately, it's up to the DM to decide what he wants to do with his campaign. At least one other author has written a story, in RotE, about a moonblade that was plundered from an elven crypt and ended up in the possession of a half-elf and became active again. There's no evidence in this short story that this character is related to the bloodline of the moonblade in anyway. If we are relying on the works of the authors to dictate our views on moonblades in a D&D game, this would seem to run counter those views quoted above. And I'm not sure if the remark about the creation of a new moonblade was in reference to my statement about the moonblade being transformed or as a general reference to the original question that began this thread. But I didn't say anything about creating new moonblades. Obviously, these moonblades were minor artifacts that were created at one time with the blessing of the gods. Their creation can never be duplicated. I won't contest that. Given the stated literary evidence, I wouldn't say that it is 'impossible' to find a moonblade somewhere, though I would agree that it would be highly unlikely to be found in a treasure cache, more likely it would be found in an elven tomb or in the possession of someone who had already plundered such a locale. I also would point out that given this evidence and the rules provided in MoF, the statement that anyone not in the direct family line would be immediately slain is not entirely accurate. That was the original intent when the moonblade concept was created, but the D&D game/MoF purposely left it ambiguous for gaming purposes. The only requirement listed for game terms is that the wielder must have elf blood. Whether a moonblade should be thrown willy-nilly into a campaign is a matter for each individual DM to decide. I personally have considered it, but have never done it. I've never had a worthy elven warrior or bladesinger in my campaigns.
Alediran 03-21-07, 11:45 AM	mboley, but you didn't considered the posibility that while it's not mentioned any bolod relation of the half-elf in "Bladesinger's Lesson" to the family who wielded the moonblade it doesn't mean that no blood relation exists, until there is an absolute answer, we must consider both options. In this case, knowing the selective nature of the moonblade we must lean to the posibility that she is blood related to that family.
Lord Karsus 03-21-07, 02:11 PM	While Elaine's personal views as an author and creator of the Moonblade concept (might be wrong here)... -Yes, you are correct. At least one other author has written a story, in RotE, about a moonblade that was plundered from an elven crypt and ended up in the possession of a half-elf and became active again. There's no evidence in this short story that this character is related to the bloodline of the moonblade in anyway. If we are relying on the works of the authors to dictate our views on moonblades in a D&D game, this would seem to run counter those views quoted above. -Though technically apocrypha, Elaine has said over at the 'Keep that Half-Elves cannot wield Moonblades, and that Arilyn was a very special case, which would have been explained more as the story progressed (The final installment of the Songs and Swords series). -And, while it's neither here nor there, it kind of was implied (at least I feel this way), that the Half-Elf who uses Daried's Moonblade in "Lessons of the Bladesinger" was distantly related to Daried himself. -Well, Dan, it seems that Rich Baker strikes again, eh? No lore is sacred enough. I also would point out that given this evidence and the rules provided in MoF, the statement that anyone not in the direct family line would be immediately slain is not entirely accurate. That was the original intent when the moonblade concept was created, but the D&D game/MoF purposely left it ambiguous for gaming purposes. -There is also other lore concerning Moonblades, asides for Magic of Faerūn. Furthermore, many consider the write-up for Moonblades for Magic of Faerūn quite horrid, because it takes very little of the actual Moonblade lore into consideration.
Alediran 03-21-07, 02:35 PM	If I was Rich writing Lessons of the Bladesinger Elaine's mailbox would explode from the dozens of questions I would ask her (I even ask my players if I can borrow their characters for other adventures I master).
Lord Karsus 03-21-07, 04:10 PM	If I was Rich writing Lessons of the Bladesinger Elaine's mailbox would explode from the dozens of questions I would ask her (I even ask my players if I can borrow their characters for other adventures I master). -Well, that's how it should be , in a shared world. I am sure that lots of it does happen, behind the scenes. This is just one example where: A) It didn't happen enough or B) Elaine was left out of the loop, due to her status as an author not affiliated with WotC (Then, anyway). -Either way, we're still left with the results.
Old Sage 03-21-07, 07:29 PM	Re: Moonblades and other elves/half-elves - "...the original creators of the moonblades had the moon elf race in mind. Nearly every wielder of these swords has been a full-blooded moon elf. The exception is Arilyn, a half-elf. A possible future exception is Azariah Craulnober, who takes after her mother, a gold elf and who may or may not be able to claim the sword Elaith holds in trust for her."
The Jake 03-21-07, 07:43 PM	Please also bear in mind that Elaine's story, while it is set in FR and may inspire works in other worlds, what she says does not apply to other worlds in other campaign settings (as a my world, which is custom in design).
The Jake 03-21-07, 07:47 PM	Please also bear in mind that Elaine's story, while it is set in FR and may inspire works in other worlds, what she says does not apply to other worlds in other campaign settings (as a my world, which is custom in design). As for being imbalanced by removing the drawbacks, I have conferred with 3 other DMs over this campaign and we're in agreement that it is not imbalanced. The D&D boards also concur. Our group concencus was so long as the rewards are commensurate with what a character of a given level would otherwise receive, WoL are not imbalanced. I find that legacy weapons are slightly more powerful in this regard but not overpowering. That and other systems are inplace in the campaign to ensure that they do not become all powerful. Thanks to those who understand the idea of what I am trying to achieve and not attacking it.
Prince Indirian 03-22-07, 03:35 AM	Thanks to those who understand the idea of what I am trying to achieve and not attacking it. Hating is quite popular around here, especially around the know it all areas. Either way, are you aware of feat "Ancestral Relic" in book of the exalted deeds. Or maybe the ancestral weapons that samurai have in OA (Oriental Adventures). Basically basically you are allowed pour half your wealth into a item( weapons, armor, wondrous item) etc by simply meditating and sacrificing a certain amount of gold which is proportional to the cost of the weapon otherwise. So if you want to upgrade your masterwork sword and you have say 18000 gold (and wishes to invest it all in the sword), you can mediate a few days and voilą, a +3 sword, or Keen +2 sword etc
Lord Karsus 03-22-07, 09:18 AM	Hating is quite popular around here, especially around the know it all areas. Either way, are you aware of feat "Ancestral Relic" in book of the exalted deeds. Or maybe the ancestral weapons that samurai have in OA (Oriental Adventures). Basically basically you are allowed pour half your wealth into a item( weapons, armor, wondrous item) etc by simply meditating and sacrificing a certain amount of gold which is proportional to the cost of the weapon otherwise. So if you want to upgrade your masterwork sword and you have say 18000 gold (and wishes to invest it all in the sword), you can mediate a few days and voilą, a +3 sword, or Keen +2 sword etc -I never liked that GP, or equivalent wealth thing. What does a spirit need with wealth? The one character who was a Samurai in a game I DM (which is my current one, actually), asked me about switching the sacrifice to EXP instead, and I am still in the process of trying to figure how to work that one out. I think that EXP is a better choice than gold, though.
Prince Indirian 03-22-07, 01:54 PM	-I never liked that GP, or equivalent wealth thing. What does a spirit need with wealth? The one character who was a Samurai in a game I DM (which is my current one, actually), asked me about switching the sacrifice to EXP instead, and I am still in the process of trying to figure how to work that one out. I think that EXP is a better choice than gold, though. I might be a symbolic thing, ya know. It similar with monks who take chastity vows, of course God doesn't need their virginity, but the vow as well as Chastity that comes with it represents something more, it's a symbol of their intense belief and thus the sacrifice. The Ancestral spirit requires gold/items instead of say a Chastity to empower it, you need to prove that are you worthy by sacrificing wealth. The spirit likely doesn't need it, but it needs to know that you are willing to sacrifice something for the powers you get in return, that's likely why every new wielder of ancestral relic will need to "re-power" it with gold/items. An evil version for example might require the actual sacrifice of a sentients being, in addition, since it's a little hardervalue beings. I am not sure people realize just powerful/useful this feat is, no longer does one have to rely on the party wizard, cleric or artificer for upgrades etc. Neither do you have gather expensive components and similar (such enchanting a weapon on a particular plane), just have gold or items of certain value and you are done. Oh and you need to mediate for a couple days (or a month, depends on the power of thr relic) Notice that if you find for example a +3 sword (worth 18000 GP or so) you only get 75 % (or so, depends on what feats and so you have as well diplomacy checks etc) of it's value if you choose to sell it. If you choose to sacrifice it, you get all value of the sacrificed wealth when calculating the new powers for you relic...
BadCatMan 03-22-07, 08:48 PM	I'm kinda afraid to post in this thread, as I have to admit that I don't exactly know what a Moonblade is. Some magical elf swords, right? :) I'm in the process of gifting one of my PCs with a Legacy Weapon right now, a dwarf with the axe of his clan's founder. I also made Namarra "Neversleeps" into a Legacy Weapon: http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-770123.html Though I'd probably make some hefty changes if I did it again. I don't like the sacrificing treasure part of unlocking legacies. Throwing away all that money and gear rarely meshes well with the character, the legend or the legacy item. So I decided to simply not give out any treasure to begin with. I chose the monster that he would have to defeat to discover the legacy item and rolled high for its treasure. So I converted some to the cost of the legacy weapon, and the rest to the ritual cost, and I won't give him any of it. The cost is paid, by rules, in that it's money he earnt and doesn't get, and it doesn't muck with the storyline. (He'll be the only PC fighting it, so no-one else is missing out.) I also prefer not to see the penalties as actual penalties inflicted by the legacy item - unless it's part of some kind of curse or flavourful vulnerability for example. They could simply be aspects of training the character didn't learn because they were focusing on the item instead. I also messed with the knowledge checks. Instead of revealing the legend over the course of several checks - why should the end of the tale be harder to know than the beginning? - I'll give the basic legend at the first check, then reveal a new, previously hidden part at the second, and leave the rest for either the legend of a new wielder, or the PC himself. I'm not sure of what Moonblades can do (Hmm, I'll have to go read up on them now), but I find converting standard magical items by the rules in the back of WoL can leave spaces for more abilities than what they're known for. I like to use a little imagination in filling these out, such as for Namarra, above. And hunting down all possible lore of the item really helps, both in inventing new abilities and filling out the legend.
Lord Karsus 03-22-07, 11:21 PM	I'm kinda afraid to post in this thread, as I have to admit that I don't exactly know what a Moonblade is. Some magical elf swords, right? :) -I think we'll all pretend we didn't hear that. ;) -If you read the thread from start to finish, you'll get a pretty good idea of what Moonblades are. Read Elaine Cunningham's Songs and Swords series for the "full scoop".
Dark Wizard 03-23-07, 12:01 AM	-I never liked that GP, or equivalent wealth thing. What does a spirit need with wealth? The one character who was a Samurai in a game I DM (which is my current one, actually), asked me about switching the sacrifice to EXP instead, and I am still in the process of trying to figure how to work that one out. I think that EXP is a better choice than gold, though. Might want to take a look at AEG's Rokugan Campaign Setting sourcebook. Their version of the Samurai, which is pretty much the one from WotC's OA, uses EXP to enhance their daisho instead of wealth. In one game I played, the GM had us use both wealth and experience points. That game was LOW magic. Otherwise, the Kensai PrC from Complete Warrior might help as a guideline (bonuses to experience equivalents), stretched over 20 levels using the OA Samurai as another guide (bonuses to level equivalents).
Critalondel 03-23-07, 02:18 AM	I've got a very Elven fighter/mage in a Spelljammer game (by "very Elven" I mean just fits all the usual stereotypes, haughty, proud, condescending, etc) who's also a pretty devout follower of Correlon Larethian. He "sacrifices" money into upgrading his Item Familiar (a butt-whooping longsword) by making donations to whatever Temple to CL he's near, and meditating there, etc, etc, until his sword is a little snazzier. I'd prefer it if XP cost instead of GP cost played a larger part in item creation in general, not just Item Familiars and Weapons of Legacy, but the simple fact is D&D's pretty much always been a pretty "gain treasure, gain power" sort of game. It's up to each player and GM, as such, to come up with a decent "in character for my personality" explanation for where all the money goes.
miscellany 03-24-07, 08:43 PM	I think it's a great idea to use the Legacy Rules to help jumpstart a D&D Realms game where Moonblades are going to be featured in play. Although I've not done conversions, I would suggest using what Sage has given us as a general guideline, that way we know what the 'rules' are so they can be broken as needed to facilitate play. I would also encourage DMs to look to the future of the elves. While Moonblades may have once been a device of the Seldarin to judge character and quality, they can always be re-tasked by those same gods to facilitate and find leaders fit to return the Elves to Faerūn. That, I think, is a good idea for where the future of these items may lie. :D
GothicDan 03-24-07, 11:30 PM	They've in large part already been redefined into something else (those that still actually survive/are active). Now some of them are Hopeblades (see Blackstaff).
miscellany 03-25-07, 03:37 AM	And there you go! Hopeblades are a perfect example of what I was suggesting. Lots of (future) potential for Moonblades, then. That Schend fellow knows what he's doing, eh? :D
GothicDan 03-25-07, 10:56 AM	He certainly does! It should be noted, however, that Hopeblades are mechanically not the same thing as Moonblades were.
miscellany 03-25-07, 12:30 PM	He certainly does! It should be noted, however, that Hopeblades are mechanically not the same thing as Moonblades were. I demand an article from Schend (with game mechanics help from Boyd if necessary) on the transmogrification of Moonblades into Hopeblades!! That'd be cool. If they could tie that in to some sort of quest-adventure (even if just in Dragon Magazine as a set of loose ideas for DMs to build on) all the better. Include the Legacy rules with it...best. :D
Old Sage 03-25-07, 08:49 PM	Steven really doesn't have much of an opporunity to see any gaming material he may create, officially published these days... though I'm sure Eric or Ed could work around any ideas he may pass along for potential inclusion in an FR sourcebook that may just touch on moonblades/hopeblades as set down in Blackstaff. We may even learn a few tidbits in Grand History when it's released later this year. ::wink::
GothicDan 03-30-07, 09:42 PM	I really need to finish reading that novel. Though I'm not so sure I want the Legacy rules to be used. I don't think the new Hopeblades really evolve with their wielders as the Moonblades did, do they?
miscellany 03-30-07, 11:40 PM	That's just it, we don't know what they do. This is a great opportunity for players to take the lead in their campaigns and really write their own history. Now I'm like totally stoked. :D
GothicDan 04-01-07, 03:22 AM	Well, -I- don't know what they do, because I haven't finished the novel yet. I'm wondering if it's stated or inferred in that novel what they do, though. May be something specifically dealing with the newly risen City of Hope. (So snazzy.)
miscellany 04-01-07, 04:32 AM	Google is so very usefull! Here's what I found via Google at Candlekeep that Schend has written on Hopeblades: (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7224&whichpage=5) I'd love to answer Joe's question here, but there's such a thing as leaving a door open to walk through later... I'll at least give you this: All of the nine hopeblades are, like the moonblades before them, long hilted broadswords that can be wielded with one or two hands, depending on the size and strength of the wielder. The hopeblades appear, feel, and sound like a diamond-hard crystal but ring like a crystal wine goblet when they hit things. They may or may not have runes along the blade, and they may or may not have individual powers (NDA). They all do have the ability to pierce the veil that hides Rhymanthiin from normal eyes and allow someone into the hidden city of hope. Beyond that, I'll not say due to NDAs and not wanting to get in the way of later development by myself or others. Steven Isn't that totally cool?! Lots of fun just waiting to happen! :D
Old Sage 04-01-07, 09:14 AM	Steven also tells us that the hopeblades are not sentient.
GothicDan 04-01-07, 01:44 PM	Yeah... They don't sound particularly like Legacy weapons to me. Artifacts, perhaps, but not very Legacy-y. (And I DO like the Legacy item rules/ideas, myself.)