Post/Author/DateTime	Post
morvegil 06-14-07, 12:28 PM	Heres what we have 8th Level 5 Fighter/ 3 Ranger 7th Level Bard 8th Level Sorcerer (Half Elf) 8th Level Rogue 5th/3rd Level Monk / Sun Soul Monk (Drow) Right now we are getting wasted. Our fighter runs and tries to shoot his bow, our bard plays music, our sorcerer does nuke things, the rogue seems to be on the front line, and the monk seems to get hit a lot or miss a lot because of the low BAB. Any strategies?
captaincarot 06-14-07, 12:35 PM	yeah stop using silly strategies and start fighting what's in front of you. other than that, some information could come in usefull. you have told us virtually nothing. we don't know what spells you have what any of your feats are or anything.
MarkusTay63 06-14-07, 12:45 PM	Try to get the fighter to fight, that usually helps. Get the monk some magical AC, like a ring of protection.
Dielzen 06-14-07, 01:57 PM	Monks/Rogues are good damage dealers, but can't take hits. Your best hope of succeeding (at minimual risk) with this type of group is to use a lot of charm, or hit-n-run. Failing that, the bard could snag the Snowflake Wardance feat (Frostburn) or the Sorc could (eventually) snag Tenser's Transformation. Either of those options would ramp up party DPS quite well, and go for the "them before us" approach.
morvegil 06-14-07, 02:14 PM	Thanks, The fighter has liek power attack and such ROgue using a Guisarme for reach attach and polearm. Sorc has fireballs, magick missle, improved insivs among things. Monk has improved Grapple, some good hitting but cant take hits.
Dielzen 06-14-07, 03:04 PM	Thanks, The fighter has liek power attack and such ROgue using a Guisarme for reach attach and polearm. Sorc has fireballs, magick missle, improved insivs among things. Monk has improved Grapple, some good hitting but cant take hits. Your fighter has PA and attacks with a bow? You might want to nudge him to focus. I hope the rogue is using weapons that hit adjacent squares also, as AoOs and sneak attack are wonderful when coupled together. Sorc spell selection is hopefully much better than that. MM is useless after 5th level and should be traded out immediately for a more useful 1st level spell. Grapple isn't all that exciting unless your caster is casting enlarge (note the synergy with my last "kill MM" comment)or other buffs on you, as monster grapple checks outstrip PCs early in life and the situation only gets worse.
morvegil 06-14-07, 03:47 PM	Question: What are some good sorc spells that would buff a Monk or FIghter? I was thinking Improved Invis for the Rogue
Freya 06-14-07, 06:04 PM	Monks typically have high, high ACs so they can wade into combat, not get hit very often and in turn (unfortunately) not do much damage. But, they keep enemies busy trying to hit them. Your monk needs to up his AC...Expertise feat, Ring of Protection, raising Wisdom via item or Owl's Wisdom spell, etc. The fighter needs to wade in. Bow fighters can be great, but you still need someone with the lion's share of hitpoints to step up and take the damage enemies will dish out...and the other party members are not going to be up to it. The fighter needs to pick up a sword, get some good armor, and wade in. Magic Missile is always a good spell...it *always* hits. When you run up against an enemy with AC that's insane, magic missile will always hit. fireball, impr invisibility, fly, lightning, cat's grace, bull's strength, and mage armor are all good. The rogue needs to put themselves into flanking position every combat. The other players need to help the rogue gain flanking position and help them keep it. It would also be a good idea for the rogue to gain combat reflexes if they don't already have it. The bard should always do their encouraging singing. If he/she doesn't already, they should either take up a ranged weapon and help cover the mage, or take up a melee weapon and help the rogue gain flank or harrie the enemy like the monk. Good luck!
Dielzen 06-14-07, 06:36 PM	Magic Missile is always a good spell...it *always* hits. When you run up against an enemy with AC that's insane, magic missile will always hit. fireball, impr invisibility, fly, lightning, cat's grace, bull's strength, and mage armor are all good. I can let some of the other ones slide, but please disregard this whole paragraph :confused: Once you have 3rd level spells, MM is pointless. Fireball always hits too, and hurts multiple creatures. Sure, they get a save for half-damage, but we're talking multiple creatures. You want more single target damage? Scorching Ray. Or, how do you calculate the damage per round of an Illusion Focused Sorc w/PK? Improved Invis has short duration, so unless you're going to quicken it, you're better off doing Girillion's arms on your monk/rogue duo. Cats/Bulls are decent, but with a cap of +4, they will quickly become pointless. Why cast a spell to give the rogue +1 hit/dmg when you can caste Haste, Girillion's Arms and Fly on him? Point blank, if the sorc plays to deal damage, it better be the monsters rolling saves, not him rolling d6s or d8s.
DaelricHearthsinger 06-15-07, 09:03 AM	To follow up on Freya's point, MM is a great classic spell, although it has lost some of its classic punch in 3rd Edition. But remember as important (if not more important) than the fact it always hits is that its a force effect, i.e. No fire/cold/acid...etc resistance. For example, your fighting a Baatezu, fireball...oops, thats not gonna work, but magic missle still hurts them. Its why if I recall the book from 2nd edition book "Pits Of Hell" or something (and Im sure there are plenty of people on the boards who can correct me if im wrong :P) the Baatezu were purposely replacing normal Baatezu eyes with ones that fired magic missles, it ignores the classic resistances. As far as your group goes, you might want to switch up tactics, the fighter should be wading into combat and taking the brunt of the enemy punch, and yes the improved invis on the rogue works, add in haste and combat reflexes and yummy sneak attack AOO's all around. And finally (ive rambled far too much already...) as an EVIL DM I know once said... "Remember to change tactics every so often... your enemies will."
Kid SixXx 06-15-07, 09:44 AM	Thanks, The fighter has liek power attack and such ROgue using a Guisarme for reach attach and polearm. Sorc has fireballs, magick missle, improved insivs among things. Monk has improved Grapple, some good hitting but cant take hits. Why in the hell does your rogue have a polearm? He knows he can get SA's in with a ranged weapon also, doesn't he? No need for a reach weapon that extreme. If your fighter / ranger has PA, he should be on the front lines fighting what is in front of him. Like everyone else has suggested, the Monk and Rogue should try to flank whatever the Fighter is standing squared up against: the fighter needs to dictate the avenue where the enemy attacks so that the party can react accordingly. Bard & Sorc should be in support with whatever they have at hand.
morvegil 06-15-07, 01:30 PM	I always wondered it seems wierd ofr a Rogue to have a Polearm, isnt there disadvantages to them?
MarkusTay63 06-15-07, 01:42 PM	Monks are one of my favorite classes. Grab a few levels of Duelist, it will up your AC when unarmored, so it synergizes well with Monk. So does Swashbuckler, and Shou diciple is a must because it increases the types of weapons you can use with Monk skills. Causing more damage means the bad guys die quicker, which works even better then extra armor against mobs who don't do much damage themselves. The rogue really needs to fight smarter, the polearm doesn't really help their skill set at all. Get the mage to learn invisibility and cast it on the rogue before combat - that should make his first backstab easier, and go for poison on the blade as well (as long as his alignment is Okay with it. The mage seems to be the only one behaving correctly here. BTW, there are some EXCELLENT Monk schools in the Realms that allow multi-classing, so you need not worry about harming your Monks progression while taking them - just find the right one.
20102000 06-15-07, 03:00 PM	Option A The fighter needs to stand in the path of harm , and get hit. While the monk and rogue flank attack. To help the fighter do that, he'll need some buffs to AC, blink from he sorcerer maybe. Option B Make the Monster stand, and the party attacks from range. Use spells like grease , web, entange. Silent image of pits. Walls of force etc. To slow the monster down, and pin him while everybody attacks. You can use the monks trip attacks , to put monsters down, and hack at them while their on the floor.
MerrikCale 06-17-07, 02:14 PM	Try to get the fighter to fight, that usually helps. words to live by.
Passivearmada 06-17-07, 10:23 PM	yes, if ur rogue has decent hide and move silently + invis, then that could be very effective. correct me if im wrong, but dont people count as Flat-Footed when being flanked? and if not that, then dont rogues still get their sneak attack? try to get the rogue around the enemy, and with luck (or good skill ranks) the enemy wont even know that he/she's there until they find a guisarme potruding from their chest. another thing i do, is get a ton of throwing daggers and hide in the shadows, hurling them at enemies, and it usually counts as a sneak attack. plus, what if our little rogue friend gets caught planting the whoopie cushion (alright, that was a bad one), how is a bighuge guisarme gonna help him when the orc is right next to him? try daggers/shortswords. yeah, monks are as good as useless with a low AC, but they have the potential to kill hordes of low CRs, and fight off high CRs efficiently. The bard. . . just make sure that he is supporting the group and not just trying to remember the tabs to 'come together' and playing a catchy tune. teamwork is the name of the game here. remember that. i hope i could help. :)
Eccerion 06-18-07, 02:53 PM	Try to get the fighter to fight, that usually helps. Amen to that. Fighters need to be able to go toe to toe with the baddies and soak up the damage so the other partymembers without the large pool of hitpoints dont have to, so get him a shield and sword and have him get in there:fight!: Monks can, and usally do, have astronomical ACs and can bounce around the battlefield like a gummybear on speed, main thing about them is that they can keep the enemy busy and when they use flurry of blows they can take out lightly armored foes, good for getting rid of pesky archers and other badie helpers. :monk: If the rogue insists on useing a polearm, a very odd choise for a weapon IMO, as has been stated they can make sneak attacks from 30 feet away with ranged weapons after all, but anyway if he wants to use the polearm, do the following: The fighter gets close to the enemy, the monk and rogue follows, the monk slips behind the badie, granting the group flanking bonus, the rogue stays behind the fighter and SA pokes the badie full of holes :ayyyy!: And yes Passivearmada rogues get to SA targets they are flanking, thats why a flanking rogue one one side and a damage dealing fighter on the other is the very LAST thing anyone wants since if you focus on the rogue the fighter will crush you and if you focus on the fighter the rogue will stab you to diddy biddy bits :duel: I'm with the pro-MM crowd, MM is a classic spell and theres a reason its been in the game pretty much unchanged since the begining. It always hits and is a force effect, true at higher levels there are lots of spells that overtake it in the damage dealing department, but thats when you keep it in reserve for when the big guns are empty, that way the sorc can keep blasting away at his leisure, also a good way to find out if your opponent has shield spell up as its one of the few ways to actually stop an MM. Keep the bard singing his song and for the love of Tymroa get the dude some wands of cure spells, since of all of you he's the only one who can use them (without use magic devise that is) and considering what you fight at your levels you can choose between the bard pokeing you with a bandaid stick or spend the next few days healing up at the local tavern.
bitter thorn 06-19-07, 01:32 AM	I concur with much of what has been said, but I'm going to disagree on the fighter/ranger front. I'm assuming that the PC has precise shot, so let him shaft whatever poor bugger the monk and rogue are flanking and drop that target hard and fast. I like quick draw or spiked gauntlets for an archer so he can drop his bow and go right to work when some one closes on him. PA just makes this juicier with a weapon that can be used two handed. If the FTR/RNG is a low CON PC like an elf you may not want him tanking if that's not in line with his build. I'd try to focus the Bard on buffing and the Sorc on blasting, but I'm far from the best qualified to offer arcane tactics. PS I find that a monks movement synergizes well with a rogues SA.
Tevin Kevlak 06-19-07, 04:08 AM	I suggest that your fighter close to melee when appropriate, like when facing a big enemy that likely deals lots of damage, this way the squishier members of your party like the Bard and Sorcerer don't get turned into a puddle of goo. Frankly, if the Fighter uses a bow he probably doesn't use a shield which means he uses a two-handed melee weapon or at least a weapon two-handed... make use of power attack! I don't care what feats the fighter has for his bow he wont be dealing more damage at level 8 with his d8 (+str if it's composite) bow than he will with his 2d6 (+1.5x str x2 from each point of power attack) greatsword. Don't rely on the monk and rogue to close to melee and provide flanking, the monk is especially effective when making use of his movement speed. Run past the front line to get in close with archers or casters or delay the enemy advance by tripping incoming enemies (hopefully with improved trip to deal damage aswell). The rogue needs to sneak attack each and every round, if possible. Tell him to potentially invest in the two-weapon fighting tree. It will lower his to hit but potentially double the number of sneak attacks he can make in a round. The bard needs to pick up some healing spells, he's the only one who can take them. I suggest getting some spells for when in combat healing needs to be performed and then getting some wands of cure light wounds (very cheap at 750 gold for 50 uses) and healing the group after encounters. Relying on just wands isn't a viable option for your level while in combat when you'd only heal from 2-9 HP per use (unless you pay far more for a higher level wand). Other than that, use his bardic music to buff the rest of the group, 4 of your 5 members will be focusing, mainly, on making attack rolls to deal damage so this bard song will be greatly beneficial. Other than that use fascinate and suggestion to pacify and control enemies. The Sorcerer should focus on taking buffing spells for his team mates (sorcerers make great buffers with their high number of spell slots per day) and damaging/hindering spells to quickly destroy or neutralize smaller opponents. Take spells like Web, Grease, Fireball, and Cone of Cold to do just that. Also, taking some save or die or save or lose spells is always a must. Hold Person, Sleep, Deep Slumber, Confusion, Phantasmal Killer and later Finger of Death and Otto's Irresistable Dance will make many encounters greatly easier on your and your party. My only other suggestion is to work as a team.
The_Shaman 06-19-07, 07:24 AM	Buffs such as enlarge person can be useful. In cramped spaces, a large (also 10x10) fighter or monk can be a good way to keep the squashier members safe. Plus, the monk can actually start grappling effectively, and the bonus damage won't hurt. BTW, if the fighter has TWF from his ranger levels, armor spikes and a two-handed weapon is an acceptable combo iirc It is a pity that the sorcerer does not have more magic support than a bard, but even a bard can help a lot with spell selection. Slow is a great way to nix enemies, for example, and between the two arcanists grease, color spray, black tentacles or a couple of summons can make a lot of difference. If half the enemies can't get to you, your melee kids would have a much easier time. Yes, teamwork is important. BTW, for sorcerers, the shadow X spells are great. BTW, how come a LA+2 character has the same character levels as those with no-LA races?
The_Wrath_of_Talos 06-21-07, 02:00 PM	Thanks, The fighter has liek power attack and such ROgue using a Guisarme for reach attach and polearm. Sorc has fireballs, magick missle, improved insivs among things. Monk has improved Grapple, some good hitting but cant take hits. Alright since the fighter likes attacking with a bow he better have precise shot and point blank shot if not rapid shot as well. Get the rogue a bow or crossbow. Sorc needs some hindering spells since your party seems to enjoy range so much. Even a simple spell like greese reduces the enemies speed by half, or sleet storm, etc. Some good buff spells range from invis to bulls str, bears endurance, mage armor, stone skin, etc. This should be the casting order: mage armor, bulls str, owl's wisdom, and endurance on monk, all last an hour a lvl. In combat greese, slow, hold person/monster, or any other debilitating effect. Followed by a fireball with a sneak attack from your rogue with a bow and a few rapid bow shots from your fighter. Due to the monks great reflex saves and new hit point pool he can afford to run through the spells that should have little to no effect on him. While not worrying about the arrows because his teammates have precise shot and makeing easy work of any downed and incapacitated foes. If any appear to have taken no ill effect from the spells you always have stunning fist to put them in the state you'd like them to be in.