Rhinoceros' Powerful Charge [Archive] - Wizards Community

Rhinoceros' Powerful Charge [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Baash
05-16-07, 05:58 AM If a druid wild shapes into a Rhinoceros and gets some enchantment spells cast at herself, magic fang and bull's strength for example, how do these affect the damage dealt with the powerful charge ability? It would seem that the powerful charge doubles the damage from the normal attack (2d6+12 --> 4d6+24) so does this mean that a rhinoceros with +1 magic enchantment bonus and +4 strength bonus would deal 4d6+2*(12+1+2) damage? Or is only the strength bonus doubled or maybe neither?

If you look at it another way, you could say that the powerful charge triples the damage from strength bonus (str26-->8*3=24) . If this is the case would the rhino with the before mentioned boost spells deal a total of 4d6+3*(8+1+2)=4d6+33?

Are any of the suggestions above even near to the correct answer? :)
Valgard
05-16-07, 07:14 AM The rhinoceros' Powerful Charge special attack doubles the damage dealt, similar to the Spirited Charge feat. All bonuses are doubled, as they are doubled when making a critical hit with a x2 multiplier.

In your case, you got a druid wild shaped in a rhinoceros, with the magic fang and bull's strength spells on her. These spells grant a +1 enhancement bonus to attack rolls with natural weapons and +4 bonus to Strength, respectively. The druid gains the Strength of the Rhinoceros of 26 plus the +4 from bull's strength for a total of 30 (+10 bonus). When charging, she deals 2d6 + 15 (1.5x newly improved Strength bonus) + 1 for magic fang, for a total of 2d6 + 16. Applying now the Powerful Charge ability, it results in 4d6+32.

Note that extra damage based on dice, such as those of sneak attack or the flaming weapon property are not doubled, so if your druid also has rogue levels, when charging a flat-footed opponent while wild shaped as a rhinoceros (it may be difficult to be caught flat-footed by a large charging rhinoceros, but the possibility exists), the sneak attack damage would not be doubled.
Baash
05-16-07, 07:54 AM Thanks a lot! :)
Burningspear
05-17-07, 01:21 PM Rhino's are cool (not that it has anything to do with this thread, but still) :smirk:
Suin Bahhar
05-18-07, 08:40 AM I agree.
Empiro
05-20-07, 02:12 AM I hate to be the odd man out, but I have to disagree.

Nowhere in the Powerful Charge entry in the special abilities section or in the Rhino monster manual entry does it say that the damage is doubled on a charge. The damage listed merely just happens to be twice that of the Rhino's normal damage. Furthermore, other monsters with the Powerful Charge ability, the Minotaur and the Triceratops, don't deal double damage on a charge. Therefore, it's quite reasonable that you wouldn't double everything for a Rhino.
Suin Bahhar
05-20-07, 11:22 AM I agreed with Rhino's being cool.

:P
Valgard
05-20-07, 05:05 PM I hate to be the odd man out, but I have to disagree.

Nowhere in the Powerful Charge entry in the special abilities section or in the Rhino monster manual entry does it say that the damage is doubled on a charge. The damage listed merely just happens to be twice that of the Rhino's normal damage. Furthermore, other monsters with the Powerful Charge ability, the Minotaur and the Triceratops, don't deal double damage on a charge. Therefore, it's quite reasonable that you wouldn't double everything for a Rhino.You're right, not all creatures get their gores doubled when using Powerful charge, but I don't know if it's casuality or some have the special ability different. Let's compare normal gore attack damage with the powerful charge damage for these three creatures:

Dinosaur - Triceratops (Str 30, +10 mod): 2d8+15, 4d8+20
Minotaur (Str 19, +4 mod): 1d8+4, 4d6+6
Animal - Rhinoceros (Str 26, +8 mod): 2d6+12, 4d6+24

Dice: Both the triceros and the rhino get their diced doubled but the minotaur seems to use something similar to the rule of increasing damage dice. Probably you should assume something similar so, concerning damage dice, stay with the dice given.

Bonus: The minotaur applies normal Str bonus when not charging and one and a half when charging powerful. The triceros applies one and half Str bonus when not charging and double when charging powerful. The rhino also applies one and half Str bonus when not charging but double the previous bonus (for a total of triple) when charging powerful. You may assume these operations on the bonuses, or not to modify the original bonuses, even with spells that increase strength, but not those that give bonus on damage (such as magic fang).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Baash 05-16-07, 05:58 AM	If a druid wild shapes into a Rhinoceros and gets some enchantment spells cast at herself, magic fang and bull's strength for example, how do these affect the damage dealt with the powerful charge ability? It would seem that the powerful charge doubles the damage from the normal attack (2d6+12 --> 4d6+24) so does this mean that a rhinoceros with +1 magic enchantment bonus and +4 strength bonus would deal 4d6+2(12+1+2) damage? Or is only the strength bonus doubled or maybe neither? If you look at it another way, you could say that the powerful charge triples the damage from strength bonus (str26-->83=24) . If this is the case would the rhino with the before mentioned boost spells deal a total of 4d6+3*(8+1+2)=4d6+33? Are any of the suggestions above even near to the correct answer? :)
Valgard 05-16-07, 07:14 AM	The rhinoceros' Powerful Charge special attack doubles the damage dealt, similar to the Spirited Charge feat. All bonuses are doubled, as they are doubled when making a critical hit with a x2 multiplier. In your case, you got a druid wild shaped in a rhinoceros, with the magic fang and bull's strength spells on her. These spells grant a +1 enhancement bonus to attack rolls with natural weapons and +4 bonus to Strength, respectively. The druid gains the Strength of the Rhinoceros of 26 plus the +4 from bull's strength for a total of 30 (+10 bonus). When charging, she deals 2d6 + 15 (1.5x newly improved Strength bonus) + 1 for magic fang, for a total of 2d6 + 16. Applying now the Powerful Charge ability, it results in 4d6+32. Note that extra damage based on dice, such as those of sneak attack or the flaming weapon property are not doubled, so if your druid also has rogue levels, when charging a flat-footed opponent while wild shaped as a rhinoceros (it may be difficult to be caught flat-footed by a large charging rhinoceros, but the possibility exists), the sneak attack damage would not be doubled.
Baash 05-16-07, 07:54 AM	Thanks a lot! :)
Burningspear 05-17-07, 01:21 PM	Rhino's are cool (not that it has anything to do with this thread, but still) :smirk:
Suin Bahhar 05-18-07, 08:40 AM	I agree.
Empiro 05-20-07, 02:12 AM	I hate to be the odd man out, but I have to disagree. Nowhere in the Powerful Charge entry in the special abilities section or in the Rhino monster manual entry does it say that the damage is doubled on a charge. The damage listed merely just happens to be twice that of the Rhino's normal damage. Furthermore, other monsters with the Powerful Charge ability, the Minotaur and the Triceratops, don't deal double damage on a charge. Therefore, it's quite reasonable that you wouldn't double everything for a Rhino.
Suin Bahhar 05-20-07, 11:22 AM	I agreed with Rhino's being cool. :P
Valgard 05-20-07, 05:05 PM	I hate to be the odd man out, but I have to disagree. Nowhere in the Powerful Charge entry in the special abilities section or in the Rhino monster manual entry does it say that the damage is doubled on a charge. The damage listed merely just happens to be twice that of the Rhino's normal damage. Furthermore, other monsters with the Powerful Charge ability, the Minotaur and the Triceratops, don't deal double damage on a charge. Therefore, it's quite reasonable that you wouldn't double everything for a Rhino.You're right, not all creatures get their gores doubled when using Powerful charge, but I don't know if it's casuality or some have the special ability different. Let's compare normal gore attack damage with the powerful charge damage for these three creatures: Dinosaur - Triceratops (Str 30, +10 mod): 2d8+15, 4d8+20 Minotaur (Str 19, +4 mod): 1d8+4, 4d6+6 Animal - Rhinoceros (Str 26, +8 mod): 2d6+12, 4d6+24 Dice: Both the triceros and the rhino get their diced doubled but the minotaur seems to use something similar to the rule of increasing damage dice. Probably you should assume something similar so, concerning damage dice, stay with the dice given. Bonus: The minotaur applies normal Str bonus when not charging and one and a half when charging powerful. The triceros applies one and half Str bonus when not charging and double when charging powerful. The rhino also applies one and half Str bonus when not charging but double the previous bonus (for a total of triple) when charging powerful. You may assume these operations on the bonuses, or not to modify the original bonuses, even with spells that increase strength, but not those that give bonus on damage (such as magic fang).