Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MarkusTay63 02-10-07, 12:43 AM	R.A. Salvatore calls them Morningstars, but then describes them with chains. The picture on Pg. 120 of the PH clearly shows that a (D&D) Morningstar does NOT have a chain! So now we must assume that he is talking about a flail, either light or heavy. Then we have the wonderful cover art, where the Dwarf is depicted with two heavy MACES! Adding insult to injury, they are supposed to be Glassteel, but the ones in the pic are clearly your plain old garden-variety weapons. Add to all of that Glassteel weapons are only made by Elves, and Elves never make weapons as crude as flails, maces, and morningstars. I'm not even finished with the book, so I don't even know what these babies are capable of yet, but they are already giving me headaches. So, anyone want to take a shot at what these REALLY are?
BadCatMan 02-10-07, 01:52 AM	No real world weapons ever had a set naming system. They were called whatever the user liked. Naming conventions, especially those invented by D&D are entirely arbitary. What's a broadsword anyway? Bastard sword, longsword, greatsword, something else entirely? So same deal here. The handle-chain-spiked-knob weapon is occasionally known as a morningstar in the real world. Here's one: http://members.aol.com/dargolyt/TheForge/mornstar.htm And here's another: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_star_(weapon) The rest is simply artists getting the wrong guidelines. "Draw a dwarf with morningstars" someone said and elaborated no further, and the artist found the wrong type of morningstar. Simple. Happens all the time. It has a chain so call it a light flail if you like.
MerrikCale 02-10-07, 09:33 AM	The rest is simply artists getting the wrong guidelines. "Draw a dwarf with morningstars" someone said and elaborated no further, and the artist found the wrong type of morningstar. Simple. Happens all the time. It certainly does. There are numerous examples of it in sourcebooks with NPCs. In the Moonsea book, an NPC is listed as using a shortbow but is pictured with a hand crossbow, etc
Boda 02-10-07, 10:38 AM	The only reliable classification on weapons defines them by type, within it, size. Morningstars and maces belong to the same type but have diferent caracteristics(spikes), and maces can be light or heavy(i think elf still use the light variety). As for flails, there are a whole different class, along with whips, chains, etc. Swords have their on size ranks; dagger, short sword( roman gladium, celtic five-finger, indian kukri,etc), longsword( medieval regular, japanese katana, arab scimitar, etc), broadsword( bastard sword, japanese dai-katana,etc), greatsword( spanish montante, french flamberge, japanese no-daichi, etc).But still there are diferences between them in weight, shape, number of edges,etc.
Purple Dragon Knight 02-11-07, 02:02 AM	Outside D&D, the hero of the Castlevania video games once used a whip, a whip-chain, and a "morningstar", which was a whip-chain with a spiked ball at the end. This sucker was long though, just like a regular D&D whip (15-foot reach), so I would hazard to say that the 'morningstars' Athrogate wields are in fact D&D flails or heavy flails (if the latter, he would use them in conjunction with the Monkey Grip feat from Complete Warrior). In terms of enchantment, I'm not sure yet, but I think they can deliver poison or some other substance a number of times per day.
Diffan 02-11-07, 02:35 PM	I've read the series as well and I must say that it was a little nerve wracking. RA calls them morningstars but from a strictly D&D stand point, they're flails. They're made of glass-steel and with a command word, one flail secretes oil of impact while the other secretes a substance that makes metal rust (as from a rust monster). How many times he can use this ability is unknown, though I'd say probably as many as 5/day and no less than 3.
TomCosta 02-12-07, 04:42 PM	To answer the question, they are almost assuredly glassteel flails with magic powers. The cover is probably inaccurate because the description for the artist said morningstars, which as pointed out above had many different meanings historically, but in D&D are big maces with a large spike on the end, while flails are your classic ball and chain or evolved threshing implement. Now whether they are light flails or heavy flails is another question. I would say they are both heavy flails and Athrogate being a very high level fighter used a feat to offset any penalties for using two non-light weapons.
bondious 02-12-07, 07:33 PM	To answer the question, they are almost assuredly glassteel flails with magic powers. The cover is probably inaccurate because the description for the artist said morningstars, which as pointed out above had many different meanings historically, but in D&D are big maces with a large spike on the end, while flails are your classic ball and chain or evolved threshing implement. Now whether they are light flails or heavy flails is another question. I would say they are both heavy flails and Athrogate being a very high level fighter used a feat to offset any penalties for using two non-light weapons. That and the fact that he wears a Belt of Giant Strength (most likely +6), and that Athrogate seems to like to do things "big"! :D
Purple Dragon Knight 02-13-07, 07:26 PM	That and the fact that he wears a Belt of Giant Strength (most likely +6), and that Athrogate seems to like to do things "big"! :D Bwahahahah!
BloodofNumenor 02-13-07, 07:35 PM	Havent any of you ever heard of a mace and chain?
bondious 02-13-07, 07:39 PM	Bwahahahah! INDEED! :D
MarkusTay63 02-13-07, 09:02 PM	"I fears I am most confused, it appears words have been miss-used." ;) I think I have a new favorite anti-hero.
_SIN_ 02-14-07, 04:14 PM	Why are wotc comissioning work to non-d&d playing artists anyway?
MarkusTay63 02-14-07, 05:19 PM	Because they can paint their @sses off? :D
bondious 02-14-07, 06:58 PM	Yeah, Lockwood's a pretty good artist, and in my opinion I'd say his work on the Drizzt book covers have gone a long way towards both streamlining the character's look AND atoning for past blunders commited by previous artists. I mean, those old covers are pretty bad, in my opinion. The first two in the Icewind Dale trilogy aren't bad, but then after that they just seemed to get worse and worse UNTIL 'The Silent Blade', when Lockwood started doing them. Even then, though, it took him a bit to smooth out the edges, but by the Hunter's Blade trilogy, I think he got it down right.
Purple Dragon Knight 02-14-07, 08:41 PM	Lockwood always delivers superb art. All Hail Lockwood!
_SIN_ 02-15-07, 12:25 AM	and rolf harris!!
MerrikCale 02-15-07, 09:08 PM	and parillo
MarkusTay63 02-15-07, 11:26 PM	And lets not forget Tony DiTerlizzi, the man who turned the Great Wheel into a setting.
Diffan 02-16-07, 01:40 PM	and parillo Yes, I must second Parillo.
boggler65 02-25-07, 11:46 PM	Lockwood is awesome, The Drizzt art was absolutely weird until he got ahold of it. To answer the questions about weapoin terminology: everything everyone has said about the ambiguity of weapon names is entirely true... Someone wanted to know what a broadsword is. It's not any real individual type of weapon, a good way to define it; most medieval swords of any size tapered to a point, a broadsword however did not. So a broadsword is any sword whose width remains constant along the entire lenght... or any sword that anyone decided to call a broadsword. Helpful? No? Welcome to history!!! =)