Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Passivearmada 06-17-07, 10:07 PM	i have a problem. daggers are good for rogues (im always a rogue, til the day that i die. . . and occasionally a mage), cause theyre light, but kinda weak. I was thinkin bout dirks, but i dont know if theyre even weapons in the D&D universe cause i cant find anything on them! if you could tell me if this info exists and where to find it, that would be greatly appreciated and feel free to ask about any other unfound weapons. :) (oh, and in case you don't know, a dirk is like a long dagger, but still shorter than a shortsword)
Lady_Mhaor 06-17-07, 11:19 PM	wouldn't they have the same stats as a dagger?
Ranger REG 06-18-07, 02:04 AM	I thought a dirk is more rounded and doesn't have any sharp edge like a dagger or knife does.
Passivearmada 06-18-07, 09:35 AM	it seems that we all think differently of what a dirk is. i'll goe check roght now! :) alright- the blades were about 7-14 inches in length, but could get up to 21 inches. its pretty much a back up weapon used by ppl with broadswords. daggers are usually much shorter. i dont know what the difference between a dirk and a shortsword would be, besides that the dirk is smaller, ad easier to hide, its lighter. i think it should be stronger than a dagger, but weaker than the shortsword. . . (a d5? :P) hmmm- i think it should be more expensive than a shortsword, have this- (1d4/18-20) or (1d6/19-20) x2 sounds good for a crit, but x3 would be hesitantly acceptable if it dealt a d4 of damage. what do you guys think? thanks. :)
Eccerion 06-18-07, 02:32 PM	Use shortswords for concealment and rapiers for flair and excellent crit chance, leave the daggers for throwing and cutting cheese.:D
Esnapand 06-19-07, 01:21 PM	I think in one table over at crystalkeep.com it was mentioned that you could substitute the dagger for the dirk. However I always saw the dagger as a good backup-weapon. Easy to hide, good to have in the back hand, often a nice surprise. I have no character without one, but I also have no character that uses it as a main weapon.
The_Wrath_of_Talos 06-19-07, 03:15 PM	it seems that we all think differently of what a dirk is. i'll goe check roght now! :) alright- the blades were about 7-14 inches in length, but could get up to 21 inches. its pretty much a back up weapon used by ppl with broadswords. daggers are usually much shorter. i dont know what the difference between a dirk and a shortsword would be, besides that the dirk is smaller, ad easier to hide, its lighter. i think it should be stronger than a dagger, but weaker than the shortsword. . . (a d5? :P) hmmm- i think it should be more expensive than a shortsword, have this- (1d4/18-20) or (1d6/19-20) x2 sounds good for a crit, but x3 would be hesitantly acceptable if it dealt a d4 of damage. what do you guys think? thanks. :) I would consider the dirk a masterwork dagger but it would be considered an exotic weapon when thrown. Possibly a 18-20 x2 crit range.
dragonheart 06-29-07, 09:05 AM	Dirks are simply one type of dagger - originally scottish - they are generally double edged with no fingerguard (think you typical modern "bootknife"). like all shortbladed weapons you have add about 6 -12 inched to today's typical lengths to see the size they would have been when they were in regular use. while the legal legth of a blade in many states has been reduced to 3-4 inches (I wonder if that could be changed siting the 4th amendment and the Finnish war discoveries) even as late as the late 1800s knives and daggers were typically much larger. the standard lengths for things like bowie knives, "Green Rivers" and "arkansas toothpicks" (a modern version of the dirk) was 12-18 inches. given that short swords are generally considered to be 18-24 inch bladed weapons they do sort of grade into each other. In fact a few weapons are really short swords but are called knives - these include the Khyber "knife" and Kriss both with generally single edges but blades of 18-24 inches.
The WarOverlord 06-29-07, 03:34 PM	i have a problem. daggers are good for rogues (im always a rogue, til the day that i die. . . and occasionally a mage), cause theyre light, but kinda weak. I was thinkin bout dirks, but i dont know if theyre even weapons in the D&D universe cause i cant find anything on them! if you could tell me if this info exists and where to find it, that would be greatly appreciated and feel free to ask about any other unfound weapons. :) (oh, and in case you don't know, a dirk is like a long dagger, but still shorter than a shortsword) Dirks are what broken swords and Short Shords and sometimes the longer end daggers are turned into....rather then being thrown away Seen blades as little as 1 inch on its handle converted into a Dirk A Dirk is a punching weapon and more of a makeshift Slilletto then a Dagger though and on average doe 1d4 piecing damage with the longer ones able to punch through Leather,Padded, and Chain Armor. Punching though plate mail is unlikely but someone that would make a dirk out of a broken Sword (resourceful) would know to jamm the dirk though the joints an of such heavier Armor or just aim for the unarmored areas like the Face (opened Helm), Groin, or arm pits.
Calmar 06-29-07, 05:42 PM	A dagger does 1d4 points of damage, a short sword does 1d6. If the dirk lies between these two... 1d5! :D :P Or a dagger with a crit chance of 18-20/x2 :or: an 1d6 dagger with crit 20/x2.
Mastergrubb 06-29-07, 11:31 PM	The dirk was originaly a scottish weapond 13-16 in with a thick heavy blade shape egdes and a very fine point for punching threw english armor in the middle 1600s. It was held in the same hand that the shield was on and had a round pommel that kept it from being knocked loose from heavy shield hits. In d and d terms i would use a punching dagger and design a feat to let you attack wth it while using a shield with two weapond fighting like a spiked shield.
rjfras 06-30-07, 01:27 AM	Dirk is a Scots word for a long dagger; sometimes a cut-down sword blade mounted on a dagger hilt, rather than a knife blade. The word dirk could have possibly derived from the Gaelic word sgian dearg (red knife). It may also have been a corruption of the Low German terms Dulk or Dolk. The shift from dearg [ˈɮʲɛrəg] to dirk [dʌrk] is very minimal. In Bronze Age and Iron Age Scotland and Ireland, the dirk was actually considered to be a sword. Its blade length and style varied, but it was generally 7-14 inches. However, the blades of Irish versions often were as much as 21 inches in length. In medieval Scotland, the dirk was a backup to the broadsword, and was wielded by the left hand while the scabbard was carried on the arm. Dirks were used to swear an oath upon in Celtic cultures. After the Battle of Culloden, the British government troops were aware that the Highlanders normally swore on their dirks, so, to prevent future uprisings or rebellions against the throne, they made them swear on oath never to "possess any gun, sword, or pistol, or to use tartan: "... and if I do so may I be cursed in my undertakings, family and property, may I be killed in battle as a coward, and lie without burial in a strange land, far from the graves of my forefathers and kindred; may all this come across me if I break my oath." Nearly every Scottish male at the time of the oath had a dirk. This was because most Scots were too poor to buy a sword. The dirk was small and was carried everywhere the owner went. The dirk was worn in plain view suspended from a belt at the waist. Another shorter dagger tucked into a coat sleeve or stocking as part of Highland dress is known as a Sgian Dubh, derived from the arm pit dagger or sgian achlias. To this day, a real or false dirk is sometimes worn as a part of traditional Scottish costume. In addition to these traditional weapons, other styles of dirk were worn by European and American forces on land and sea. Easier to carry than swords, dirks gained favor as lighter side arms among many military and naval officers during the 17th through 19th centuries. In some navies, they continued to be worn by midshipmen and cadets well into the 20th century. Numerous examples of naval dirks have survived from the earlier age of sail, some with histories of use during naval engagements. Most naval dirks were worn primarily on dress occasions, however, and consequently although attractive many were not designed for use in battle. Naval and other dirks were commonly made with either double-edged or single-edged blades, and there was no standard blade configuration. Reference books covering naval dirks invariably show the popularity of both blade types. As a consequence, historically there were about as many naval dirks mounting single-edged blades as those with double-edged blades. Some dirks have single-edged blades that also have a false edge near the tip, a feature that could be useful in a backcut. Other meanings of dirk as a weapon are a side arm worn by officers, midshipmen, and cadets of the world's navies. a short-bladed weapon used in the Middle Bronze Age (c. 1500-1100 BC). a thrown weapon, as opposed to a melee weapon. a short dagger used by pirates. a small, straight-bladed dagger carried for personal protection. a long blade & hilt across from a dagger & a sword, about half the size of the former & twice the size of the latter. In the USA, dirk is a word used in the knife laws of several states. While it generally means any double-edged knife, the legal meaning may vary from state to state.
Passivearmada 07-01-07, 08:51 PM	alright people, now that we know what a dirk is let's see what a dirk can do. i like the 1d4 18-20/x2 or 1d6 /x3 idea, and the 'exotic when thrown' idea. i think that because it was commonly used as a backup weapon, you should get a bonus on AC when fighting defensively, without taking further attack penalties. when someone said that a dirk was like a dagger with no finger guards, i thought that the normal dagger has no finger guards, right? unless, of course, you mean a hilt/crosspeice. another rule- if it does either if the above, i think that it should be exotic, period. if it has the AC bonus when fighting defensively, maybe it should have the same stats as a dagger, except its exotic. oh, and uh. i think it should be stronger than a dagger, but weaker than the shortsword. . . (a d5? ) by me A dagger does 1d4 points of damage, a short sword does 1d6. If the dirk lies between these two... 1d5! by Calmar i believe that was mine. :mad: :P its okay
godbeepit 07-01-07, 09:17 PM	Well, the 1d4 (18-20/x2) is a kukri which would be a slightly longer dagger with a curve in towards the blade rather than out like in katanas and the like. On another note, you can just call it a dagger. For instance, there were several types and styles of incredibly large two-handed swords but in D&D it has been translated as just a greatsword. The Germans had a sword (its name escapes me now) with a blade that was about four and a half feet from the hilt but the actual metal was only about three feet from the tip so there was wood from the end of the blade to the hilt. It was specifically designed to take down horsemen. Then over in Asia they had dai-katanas which were two-handed katanas that were still light enough to be used in a duel. But mechanically, they would both be called greatswords. The dirk is already created for D&D, it is just under the pseudonym of a separate culture or even just D&D culture. Bastard swords and katanas are mechanically the same but can be called two different things. But I digress, arguing is too much fun. If you're set on making the dirk mechanically different from the short sword, dagger, and kukri go for the 1d6(x3). It would be the only one available now as even 1d4(x3) is taken by the punching dagger.
dragonheart 07-02-07, 09:27 AM	something for all of us to keep in mind here - when the authors created the weapon lists they lumped many different types of weapons together into general classes. as far as the game goes the Dirk IS a dagger and so it gets the standard dagger damage. it is not an exotic weapon - its actually a simple weapon and it can be thrown easily as well as being used as a piercing and slashing weapon. roughly their interpretation of weapons appears to be: knives - mostly single edged slicing tools with blades under 9 inches. daggers - fighting and general use weapon/tools wiht blades 9-15 inches short swords - fighting weapons with blades 15-28 inches long swords - melee weapons with straight blades 28-40 inches scimitars - melee weapons with curved blades 28-40 inches bastard swords - melee slashing weapons with blades 40-50 inches rapiers - melee thrusting weapons with blades 30-50 inches great swords - melee slashing weapons with straight blades >50 inches basically anything else is an exotic weapon. since the dirk easily fits into the dagger category it IS a dagger in D&D terms and should only get dagger damage as listed. we would all like our favoured weapons to get something special or extra since we think they are "better" than other types but alas by the RAW they don't (my favorite dagger is the Bowie and it only gets dagger damage to oin my campaign).