Post/Author/DateTime	Post
WraithXIII 07-05-03, 11:43 AM	I have the Epic handbook and looking at the spells raises the question if they are supposed to be 10 level spells. Even if they are, the DC's of the some of the spells are ungodly. I believe one of them is 400+ on the DC. Not possible if you follow the letter of the book. Of course, a roll of 20 is always a success, but otherwise, you are just wasting 95% of your time. The question I am posing is the possibility of breaking down epic spells into levels (10-whatever) and how would you do it? I have an idea and to be honest, half of them suck as epic spells anyway. Let me know what you guys think. BTW, in Faerun, did Mystra not set a limit that prevents arcane users from casting any magic above ninth after Karsus' little stunt?
Alzrius 07-05-03, 12:33 PM	Originally posted by WraithXIII BTW, in Faerun, did Mystra not set a limit that prevents arcane users from casting any magic above ninth after Karsus' little stunt? In the Realms, after the fall of Netheril, Mystra placed a decree that no magic over 10th level could be used by mortals.
WraithXIII 07-05-03, 12:42 PM	Originally posted by Alzrius In the Realms, after the fall of Netheril, Mystra placed a decree that no magic over 10th level could be used by mortals. I know that, so then could epic magic even be applied in the FR? And if so, how would you do it?
CryptoNova 07-05-03, 01:13 PM	By taking your epic FR sword of Uber-God slaying and do what you think needs to be done.
Kerrexl 07-05-03, 01:16 PM	Epic Magic, as well as spellslots of level 11+ can IMO only be used on the outer planes of FR (abyse, elemental layers, etc.) and cannot affect the Prime Material, since Mystra's limit is IMO only on the Prime. I base this on the fact that other gods CAN cast level 11+ spells and they reside on other planes in the FR-crystal sphere.
Alzrius 07-05-03, 01:43 PM	Originally posted by Kerrexl Epic Magic, as well as spellslots of level 11+ can IMO only be used on the outer planes of FR (abyse, elemental layers, etc.) and cannot affect the Prime Material, since Mystra's limit is IMO only on the Prime. I base this on the fact that other gods CAN cast level 11+ spells and they reside on other planes in the FR-crystal sphere. I disagree with pretty much all of this, from a factual standpoint. Nothing specifically says that there is a limit on epic spellslots in FR - that's just your extrapolation of the 2E rule about Mystra's ban. Likewise, while the Weave itself is part of Realmspace, Mystra does have other powers on the planes...she is a greater goddess after all. Epic Magic can be (and has been) used in FR on the Prime Material plane (and I mean after Netheril) to affect it.
athelstan 07-05-03, 02:33 PM	That frost lady-thingee in the great glacier can cast epic level spells. So mystras decree on 10th level spells is, i guess, different than epic level spells. What i think we should all remember is that mystras decree was in 2nd edition, and then the epic level handbook came out in 3rd edition, and it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that there is gonna be a whooooole lotta discrepencies. Until we get an official wotc replie about epic magic, i would say its allowed. But talk to your dm about it.
Ilbreth Shadowblade 07-05-03, 03:28 PM	There is also the Elven High Magic that comes from Corellon a more powerful deity than Mystra. The Elven High Mage PrC from Races of Faerun uses epic spellcasting.
sanishiver 07-05-03, 03:35 PM	This topic comes up every so often on the FR boards, ever since the ELH came out. I usually save a “canned” response for questions like this, but for the life of me I can’t find it in my FR Boards Folder on my computer. In a nutshell then: Goddess o’ Magic #1 (Mytryl) let it all hand out. Cast to your heart’s content, float cities, whatever… Goddess #2, (Mystra) was a wee bit leery of super duper magic, so set rules in place ensuring only the best of the best of the best could ever get away with it (see Secrets of the Magister). Goddess #3 (Midnight), has set rules in place that –translated into game terms- gives us Epic Level Magic (and all the rules associated with it). I wouldn’t break down Epic spells into levels of 10+, although I’m sure it could be done, provided the DM was willing to write up all the other things that go with it (writing spell progressions, deciding how and when the Wizards will acquire their spells beyond 20th level, etc..). Originally posted by WraithXIII BTW, in Faerun, did Mystra not set a limit that prevents arcane users from casting any magic above ninth after Karsus' little stunt? See Magic of Faerun for details on what the current incarnation of Mystra will and will not allow (basically no Weave slaying or mass Kill spells, but all else is OK). Note also the Weave is now finite to the continent of Faerun. Hmmm… how best to say this last part? I wouldn’t look to the rules for an “OK” to include Epic Level Magic in an FR campaign. And if you do need it, well the FRCS supports the ELH, Iraclea and the Simbul both are written up with the Epic Spellcasting ability… what more could you ask for! Have at it, I say! Best of luck! :cool:
WraithXIII 07-05-03, 11:20 PM	Originally posted by Ilbreth Shadowblade There is also the Elven High Magic that comes from Corellon a more powerful deity than Mystra. The Elven High Mage PrC from Races of Faerun uses epic spellcasting. I have to take issue with that. Doesn't matter how high the Elven magic is, Mystra is the weave, and all those who wish to use magic must in one way or another go through her. She can cut anyone off at will including any Elven High Magic user without advance warning or even so much as a "You messed up." The only way around this is the Shadow Weave, and let's face it, much as I love elves, they won't go that far...or would they? As far as the rest of the topic, thanks for your opinions, if you actually knew what was occuring in our game, some of you might flip!
Alzrius 07-06-03, 01:50 AM	Originally posted by sanishiver Note also the Weave is now finite to the continent of Faerun. Can you cite where it says this, exactly? I don't recall something saying that. Mystra's influence may be limited to that region, since she's part of its pantheon, but I don't think the Weave itself just stops where Faerun does.
Dan_the_Rathma_Man 07-06-03, 02:16 AM	I belive that the FRCS, Faiths, or Magic of Fearun states that the Weave only exists on Toril but Mystra has the ability to cut gods off from magic and mortals from the Weave. I don't know about what happens when mortal casters leave Fearun or Toril. I am going to do the research to pinpoint the book.
Alzrius 07-06-03, 03:27 AM	Originally posted by Dan_the_Rathma_Man I belive that the FRCS, Faiths, or Magic of Fearun states that the Weave only exists on Toril but Mystra has the ability to cut gods off from magic and mortals from the Weave. I don't know about what happens when mortal casters leave Fearun or Toril. I am going to do the research to pinpoint the book. There is a marked difference between Faerun and Toril (and I'd postulate that it extends throughout the entire crystal sphere, and not just that planet). The Weave doesn't exist beyond that crystal sphere, so Mystra's total control over it doesn't extend there, but with her other greater goddess of magic abilities, she's still extremely formidable.
Mirtek 07-06-03, 04:57 AM	Originally posted by WraithXIII Of course, a roll of 20 is always a success, but otherwise, you are just wasting 95% of your time. No, it isn't. The 1/20 rule does not apply to checks. Originally posted by Kerrexl Epic Magic, as well as spellslots of level 11+ can IMO only be used on the outer planes of FR (abyse, elemental layers, etc.) and cannot affect the Prime Material, since Mystra's limit is IMO only on the Prime. I base this on the fact that other gods CAN cast level 11+ spells and they reside on other planes in the FR-crystal sphere. Level 10+ spell slots are something entirely different than level 10+ spells. These slots can only be used to cast level 0-9 spells, pushed with metamagic or just level 0-9 spells since you run out of lower slots. This has nothing to do with level 10+ spells
Temporal Reflections 07-06-03, 05:41 AM	Originally posted by Alzrius In the Realms, after the fall of Netheril, Mystra placed a decree that no magic over 10th level could be used by mortals. For those who missed it, I would like to point out that this is correct, and that is states that no spell over 10th level could be used by mortals. This leaves 10th level spells available. If you read the Myth Drannor module, you'll find that gradually Mystra moved the creative and motive power of 10th level spells away from the casters and more into the hands of deities of magic. Essentially, they became specific forms of Miracles directed to deities of magic (and potentially more powerful; nonetheless, it could simply happen that no deity of magic would power the spell, and it would fail). I haven't found anything that specifies what Midnight did. I'm pretty certain, from her other nerfing attitudes, that she didn't make 10th level spells more functional; she may have actually banned them.
GoodOlWillickers 07-06-03, 12:03 PM	I think the only spell that has a DC over 400 is Vengeful Gaze of God, but I could be wrong. I always viewed that spell as not really a spell, but something you use to end a capaign. For example, the end of your campaign could be killing a reformed Tanar'ri lord (and if you know the old Planescape stuff, that's pretty scary). When the party is being destroyed, you could have some sort of time lapse where the party cleric (or the most religious member) has his god offer him the chance to destroy the creature, but at the cost of his own life. That's the way I always saw that spell. Peace -Will
Dan_the_Rathma_Man 07-06-03, 02:29 PM	Originally posted by Mirtek No, it isn't. The 1/20 rule does not apply to checks. The 1/20 rule does apply to saves. Skill and ability checks are the rolls that the rules doesn't apply to.
sanishiver 07-06-03, 03:14 PM	Originally posted by Alzrius Can you cite where it says this, exactly? I don't recall something saying that. Mystra's influence may be limited to that region, since she's part of its pantheon, but I don't think the Weave itself just stops where Faerun does. Ask, and you shall receive! From Magic of Faerùn, page 9, ”The Weave is present in everything in Faerùn…It permeates the soil, suffuses the deeps of the ocean, and stretches to the limits of the air in the sky and beyond.” And what is Faerùn? From the FRCS, page 5, ”The continent of Faerun measures more than 3500 miles from east to west and twenty five hundred from north to south…” However, while quoting text I came across page 54 of the FRCS, where it states that Raw Magic suffuses “…every bit of matter and present in every manifestation of energy throughout the world.” So I suppose it’s not unreasonable to expect the Weave or something very much like it to be in place throughout the rest of Toril. Even I can change my mind! ;) :cool:
Dan_the_Rathma_Man 07-06-03, 04:57 PM	FRCS, p54 Mystra has dominion over magic worked throughout Toril Magic of Faerun, p. 11 Mystra can bar a deity from accessing the Weave, which would prevent the deity from using magic in Fearun but not while the deity was on another plane where the Weave does not exist, such as any of the planar homes of he deities. The two statements provide that the Weave covers all of Toril and extends to some other planes. For the other ones there must be some kind of raw magic that spellcasters can tap into.
Xae'an 07-06-03, 07:43 PM	Originally posted by Ilbreth Shadowblade There is also the Elven High Magic that comes from Corellon a more powerful deity than Mystra. The Elven High Mage PrC from Races of Faerun uses epic spellcasting. I disagree on the statement, that Corellon is more powerful than Mystra, since she controls all magic on Toril, noz just that of one race. Of course this does not prevent the Elven Highmages as well as Iraclea (the priestess of Auril mentioned in the epic level handbook) and the Simbul (who also has the epic spellcasting feat) from using epic spells, since epic spells are not 10th level spells. They are above level-dependent spell casting as described in the epic level handbook. Elven Highmagic is a form of epic spellcasting granted by the Seldarine, but they could not grant it against Mystra's will. Improved spell capacity is a differend issue: It does give you 10th+ level spellslots but not 10th+ spells, since you can only use them to alter lower level spells. Both a very powerful indeed, but none is prohibited by the goddess of magic.
sanishiver 07-07-03, 02:58 AM	Originally posted by Dan_the_Rathma_Man The two statements provide that the Weave covers all of Toril and extends to some other planes. For the other ones there must be some kind of raw magic that spellcasters can tap into. Not quite. The first statement gives proof that the Weave covers all of Toril. The second statement is not conclusive proof that the Weave extends to other planes of existance, because it assumes the Weave must extend to an alternate plane before Mystra can bar a deity who "lives" their from accessing the Weave in the first place. (That is: don't rely on a conclusion to provide the proof that it is correct ;) ) Further, given that the net effect is to prohibit a deity from using magic in Faerùn only, it makes no sense to assume the Weave exists on some alternate planes and not others. Does it really make sense for Mystra to ban a deity from "half" the Weave? About the only plane I can think of where the Weave might exist is Dweomerheart. :cool:
Dan_the_Rathma_Man 07-07-03, 03:12 AM	I see you points. But I believe that the second qoute does prove that the Weave exists on some planes because it says that the banned deity is unale to use magic on Faerun/Toril and any other plane on which the Weave exists. The Weave might not exist on a plane because Lord Ao had ordered it(I don't think this is it, I'm just saying) or the powers of the plane may warp the Weave to the point where it is not the samething as it is known as on Toril.
deadite 07-07-03, 04:40 AM	The weave only exists on Toril. No spells of 10th or higher levels are allowed by mystra. Elven high magic is capable of epic spells Shadow weave is capable of epic spells The epic level handbook does not overwrite 2e FR rules, as the ELH is based on the grey hawk setting, not FR. No where in the 3e FR rules, does it mention any change of the 2e ruling by mystra. Characters such as Halaster have 10th and higher spell slots, but cant cast epic spells.
Kezghan 07-07-03, 04:53 AM	They really need to address this issue cause it comes up every few months and the same arguments ensue. I desperately hope the FR Players Guide deals with this once and for all! Personally i think all the epic and 10,11,12 and so on spell slots are fine and dandy in the realms. epic magic i dont think is the 10th and plus levels of old. That was a different age and different set of boundries and rules of the old world. the weave has changed. epic 3e has epic spells and they are just raw magic etc. i see no reason why they cant happen in the Realms as we know them.
Moon Elven 07-07-03, 07:25 AM	Hi I can understand everyones problems with Epic magic in the realms. I am not going to delve into my own personal views and I also hope that the FRPG will give us an "official" stance. However for now I would advise having it work the way YOUR DM likes it. He controls everything in your realms game (shock horror, even Mystra!!!!). Talk to your DM sort it out. Simple. Cheers Moon Elven
SirUrza 07-07-03, 03:31 PM	Originally posted by Kezghan They really need to address this issue cause it comes up every few months and the same arguments ensue. I don't think it will ever be addressed. It's bad enough that Races of Faerun forces you to buy the Epic Level Handbook in order to use Elven High Magic. I desperately hope the FR Players Guide deals with this once and for all! Personally i think all the epic and 10,11,12 and so on spell slots are fine and dandy in the realms. Spell slots exist for metamagic, it's totally different then epic level magic and shouldn't even be clustered into the category. Level 10+ spells ONCE existed and still exist on Faerun. Mystra forbids researching and casting them. There's no reason the slots shouldn't exist especially when there are no rules limiting metamagic from going higher then 9th level. epic magic i dont think is the 10th and plus levels of old. That was a different age and different set of boundries and rules of the old world. the weave has changed. epic 3e has epic spells and they are just raw magic etc. i see no reason why they cant happen in the Realms as we know them. Take a look again, the epic level spells are pretty damn powerful. Fact is, in AD&D Elven High Magic was level 10 magic that Mystra allowed. Fact is, 3E Elven High Magic is now epic level magic that as states, is a guarded secret amongst the elves. It's not rocket science, especially when you have all these chosen running around, so of which are epic ready but no epic spells. Just put 1 and 1 together and you can figure it out. Further, WOTC will NEVER say you can't use the ELH in Forgotten Realms because then you won't buy it. Sure, some people will buy it and use it, just like some people use the Sword & Sorcery books or any other D20 book in their 3E campaign, however, sales would drop significantly if you started saying 'this isn't for such and such.' They're never going to do that simply due to the fact that D&D is living on a book per book basis and 1 failure leads to a whole design concept being canned (thus no more campaign modules because City of the Spider Queen failed.) TSR at it's height was putting out so much more then Wizards, so if they could tell you what you could and couldn't use (cause if you couldn't use this month's book, you will next month's book. Wizards barely puts out 4 Realms products now.)
sanishiver 07-07-03, 03:53 PM	Originally posted by Dan_the_Rathma_Man I see you points. But I believe that the second quote does prove that the Weave exists on some planes because it says that the banned deity is unable to use magic on Faerun/Toril and any other plane on which the Weave exists. Actually, the text you quoted doesn’t say anything like, “on any other Plane that the weave exists” at all. On the contrary , the text clearly says the planar homes of the deities are not part of the Weave. FWIW, I think extending the Weave to other planes is an interesting idea. Personally, I would add the Weave to Dweomerheart (as I mentioned earlier), and maybe have it “overlap” the Astral and Ethereal Planes, but that’s about it. Originally posted by deadite The weave only exists on Toril. No spells of 10th or higher levels are allowed by mystra. Elven high magic is capable of epic spells Shadow weave is capable of epic spells First sentence: Correct. Second sentence: Incorrect. Midnight is no more beholden to the rules of Mystra as Mystra was to Mystryl. Third sentence: Correct. Fourth sentence: Correct Originally posted by deadite The epic level handbook does not overwrite 2e FR rules, as the ELH is based on the grey hawk setting, not FR. No where in the 3e FR rules, does it mention any change of the 2e ruling by mystra. First sentence: Incorrect. The ELH is not meant as a rules supplement for Greyhawk only, nor is it “based” on Greyhawk. The ELH is a generic rule book with references to Greyhawk, just like the PHB, DMG and MM. If the ELH were meant to be a setting specific rule book, it would say so. (And for the record, the 3.5 DMG will include both the Red Wizard and Archmage prestige classes.) Second sentence: Incorrect. According to the FRCS, the ELH is fully supported by the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. Fully supported. Originally posted by deadite Characters such as Halaster have 10th and higher spell slots, but cant cast epic spells. Characters such as the Simbul and Iraclea can cast Epic spells because they have the Epic Spellcasting Feat. Halaster can’t because he doesn’t have the feat. Deadite, I’m not trying to pick a fight with you. I only wish to clarify the salient points of this discussion. Further, the final relics of 2E FR “thinking” are the dual notions that one needs “permission” to change the rules to suit their campaigns, and that one must follow “cannon“ or a campaign isn‘t an FR campaign. Open your eyes everyone. You don’t need a “permission slip” (in the form of rules text) to make use of Epic Magic in your FR campaign. And if you did, I don’t see how the inclusion of write-ups for all the major Realms Epic NPC’s using the Epic Level rules can’t be misconstrued as anything other than the permission you seek. :cool:
sanishiver 07-07-03, 04:02 PM	Originally posted by SirUrza It's bad enough that Races of Faerun forces you to buy the Epic Level Handbook in order to use Elven High Magic. “Forces” you? SirUrza, you’re smarter than that. Originally posted by SirUrza Spell slots exist for metamagic, it's totally different then epic level magic and shouldn't even be clustered into the category. Level 10+ spells ONCE existed and still exist on Faerun. Mystra forbids researching and casting them. Good advice, that first part. The second part isn’t quite true. Mystra (read: Midnight) does not prohibit the research and casting of Epic Magic, provided the end result isn’t of the mass kill, Weave slaying variety. Read Magic of Faerùn, it’s all there. :cool:
SirUrza 07-07-03, 04:04 PM	Originally posted by sanishiver (And for the record, the 3.5 DMG will include both the Red Wizard and Archmage prestige classes.) Deadite, I’m not trying to pick a fight with you. I only wish to clarify the salient points of this discussion. Then under that same notion, let me point out that they're being included in the DMG as examples of Campaign Specific prestige classes and are not "generic" or "Greyhawk" based prestige classes. Open your eyes everyone. You don’t need a “permission slip” (in the form of rules text) to make use of Epic Magic in your FR campaign. And if you did, I don’t see how the inclusion of write-ups for all the major Realms Epic NPC’s using the Epic Level rules can’t be misconstrued as anything other than the permission you seek. But that's very far from true. The Realms specific characters that have the ability to cast epic level spells as per the ELH do not have any Epic Level Spells, it just shows they can. We won't get into the fact that one of them travels to other planes more then Elminster so what she brings back to Faerun doesn't mean it works in Faerun and Races of Faerun also sets up Epic Level Magic as the guarded elven high magic. The appendix including Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms npcs was nothing but an attempt to make the book more marketable.
SirUrza 07-07-03, 04:09 PM	Originally posted by sanishiver “Forces” you? SirUrza, you’re smarter than that. Good advice, that first part. The second part isn’t quite true. Mystra (read: Midnight) does not prohibit the research and casting of Epic Magic, provided the end result isn’t of the mass kill, Weave slaying variety. Read Magic of Faerùn, it’s all there. :cool: "Mystra forbids researching and casting them." Was in reference to Level 10+ spellscasting. No where does Magic of Faerun say Epic Level Magic. It doesn't even mention it. Epic Level Magic was only a thought when MoF was being published.
sanishiver 07-07-03, 04:38 PM	Originally posted by SirUrza "Mystra forbids researching and casting them." Was in reference to Level 10+ spellscasting. Ahh... I see. My bad! :D Originally posted by SirUrza No where does Magic of Faerun say Epic Level Magic. It doesn't even mention it. Epic Level Magic was only a thought when MoF was being published. Correct, Epic Level magic is not mentioned. However, IIRC, the ELH was well on its way to completion when MoF came out. Do you really think the designers did not have the Epic Spell System in mind -particularly when they wrote, “The upcoming ELH is fully supported by the FRCS” when they wrote the MoF section about researching and re-creating the Spells of Old? Originally posted by SirUrza Then under that same notion, let me point out that they're being included in the DMG as examples of Campaign Specific prestige classes and are not "generic" or "Greyhawk" based prestige classes. Uh... OK. My point was that the rule books shouldn’t be taken as “specific to one world only” unless they say “Forgotten Realms” or “Greyhawk” on the cover. Originally posted by SirUrza But that's very far from true. The Realms specific characters that have the ability to cast epic level spells as per the ELH do not have any Epic Level Spells, it just shows they can. We won't get into the fact that one of them travels to other planes more then Elminster so what she brings back to Faerun doesn't mean it works in Faerun and Races of Faerun also sets up Epic Level Magic as the guarded elven high magic. I’m looking at Irayclea (SP?), and her Epic Spell list. What are you looking at? FYI, Races of Faerùn sets up Elven High Magic (not Epic Magic) as the guarded secret of the Elves. Epic magic (as stated in the ELH) takes on many forms, not just one. Originally posted by SirUrza The appendix including Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms npcs was nothing but an attempt to make the book more marketable. Hah, the pessimist speaks! You do recall that the ELH was not complete when the FRCS first saw print, yes? Is it a coincidence, then, that several of the NPC’s in the appendix are the same ones found in the FRCS, but with (obviously) corrected stats? Not just marketing, but also a comprehensive update. Now can go and have some fun without worrying about what the rulebooks say is and isn't OK? :cool:
Aelreth 07-07-03, 08:08 PM	Can we get that update for 3.5 from wizards to finally end this debate. Epic Spells are supported in my campaign. As I the DM, and Goddess of magic think that magic and thus the weave will grow if they are researched. However should the epic spells be abused Azuths Epic Mage-killers should take care of the situation
deadite 07-08-03, 06:03 AM	Why send mage killers eh? Doesnt sound like the NG mystra to me... Mystra has the divine ability to Deny the Weave to anybody. If some crazy wizard needs to stop casting spells, she'll just deny him the use of weave magic. There are ways to cast epic spells on Faerun, but not through the weave. If a player says to you: I want to be a fighter but cast spells too. You wont allow it untill he multi-classes to a spell user. If a player says to me: I want to cast 10th+ spells. I wont allow it, untill he learns to use shadow weave or elven high magic. Simple.
Dan_the_Rathma_Man 07-08-03, 05:05 PM	Originaly posted by deadlite Mystra has the divine ability to Deny the Weave to anybody. If some crazy wizard needs to stop casting spells, she'll just deny him the use of weave magic. This works except that the mage can strike a deal with Shar and tap into the Shadow Weave. Originaly posted by me Magic of Faerun, p. 11 Mystra can bar a deity from accessing the Weave, which would prevent the deity from using magic in Fearun but not while the deity was on another plane where the Weave does not exist, such as any of the planar homes of he deities. Originally posted by sanishiver Actually, the text you quoted doesn’t say anything like, “on any other Plane that the weave exists” at all. On the contrary , the text clearly says the planar homes of the deities are not part of the Weave. Ok can se3e where your coming from. No, the work does not say flat out that the Weave exists on other planes, but it says that the barred deity can only use magic on a plane on which the Weave doesn't exist, suggesting(key word), that the Weave extens to other planes. My other points is that not all planes outside of Toril are planar homes of deities, so they do not fall under the statement made by the book.
Mirtek 07-08-03, 05:26 PM	Originally posted by Dan_the_Rathma_Man The 1/20 rule does apply to saves. Skill and ability checks are the rolls that the rules doesn't apply to. How is that different to what i said? Originally posted by sanishiver On the contrary , the text clearly says the planar homes of the deities are not part of the Weave. Note that in 3e basically each and every plane is a planar home of a deity, with only very few exceptions.
Dan_the_Rathma_Man 07-08-03, 05:44 PM	How is that different to what i said? It's not I just misread it, sorry.
WraithXIII 07-08-03, 11:00 PM	[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mirtek [B]No, it isn't. The 1/20 rule does not apply to checks. Actually read the Players Handbook, I can't remember what page it is, but a roll of 1 is always a failure, and a roll of 20 is always a success. The rule applies to any roll made with a d20. (Attacks, skills, DC's, etc.) As for the spellcaster's in the group, they must also make a d20 roll to determine if their spell works correctly. A roll is made against the appropriate ability, such as INT for wizards, WIS for clerics, CHA for Sorcerors, blah blah. In the case of the roll they must get under the relevant ability score to have the spell work. So if a wizard has a INT of 55, like mine, there is still a 5% chance he will screw up the spell during casting. A roll of 1 against ability is considered a perfect casting, a 20 is failure, meaning he mispronoucned a word, gestured wrong, whatever. There is always the chance for failure, no matter how high a level you are, otherwise, there would be no use playing after a certain level, or attacking a dragon with an AC of 100+ (Prismatic Dragon, Great Wyrm) and there is always a chance to succeed. Back to the main topic, I just needed opinions on the whole spell thing. I have been making 10th level spells for awhile, even breaking certain rules along the way (Time Shunt). I have no problems with the whole topic, just wanting another point of view or a new idea to run with. And you wonderful gamers gave me a couple! :D
Alzrius 07-09-03, 01:23 AM	Originally posted by WraithXIII Actually read the Players Handbook, I can't remember what page it is, but a roll of 1 is always a failure, and a roll of 20 is always a success. The rule applies to any roll made with a d20. (Attacks, skills, DC's, etc.) Incorrect. Check out the Basics section of the SRD (http://wizards.com/d20/files/srdbasics.rtf). Look at the very bottom, last sentence under "Basic Task Resolution System". It reads: A "natural 20" on the die roll is not an automatic success. A "natural 1" on the die roll is not an automatic failure.
WraithXIII 07-27-03, 01:12 AM	Originally posted by Alzrius Incorrect. Check out the Basics section of the SRD (http://wizards.com/d20/files/srdbasics.rtf). Look at the very bottom, last sentence under "Basic Task Resolution System". It reads: Actually, I am right. PAge 123 of the Player's Handbook states that a natural 1 is always a failure, a natural 20 is always a success. I have no clue off hand about SRD.
Gellion 07-27-03, 02:47 AM	Originally posted by WraithXIII Actually, I am right. PAge 123 of the Player's Handbook states that a natural 1 is always a failure, a natural 20 is always a success. I have no clue off hand about SRD. I believe that only applies to combat.
Mirtek 07-27-03, 02:37 PM	Originally posted by WraithXIII Actually, I am right. PAge 123 of the Player's Handbook states that a natural 1 is always a failure, a natural 20 is always a success. I have no clue off hand about SRD. Actually, no you aren't. page 123 of the Player's Handbook that a natural 1 is always a miss, a natural 20 is always a hit. Miss/hit and not failure/success and the whole thing is under the Attack Actions headline. For skill checks see page 60 of the Player's Handbook, the last sentence under the Skill Checks headline: "A natural 20 is not an automatic success, and a natural 1 is not an automatic failure (as is in the case of combat rules)."
Garnet Hardeon 07-27-03, 04:48 PM	On Mystra and the ban: I think she just banned the casting of certain spells that endangers the Weave. Since she can detect a spell cast (if Weave-based) before the actual casting, she can choose to ban that spell or not. She definitely wouldn't allow a spell like Karsus' Avatar ever again that's for sure.