1479 DR and Freedom [Archive] - Wizards Community

1479 DR and Freedom [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
kelcimer
01-25-08, 11:19 AM It's the end of the Faerun as we know it, and I feel fine.

There are things about the 1479 that I like and stuff that I dislike. I like a fair bit of what they are doing with the gods. I like the increased stature of Baldur's Gate. I think the Changinglands and the Dragonborn are lame. Apparently the Shades are still around. And I'm sure that there are other aspects that will be released that I'll not like. But I'm not very irritated by the whole thing.

Because if I were to update the Realms I would do similar drastic things.

I've blown up Waterdeep and took the Mad Mage and Blackstaff with him. I retconned that the Great Dale never carved itself out of the Forest of Lethyr. I've already had Cormyr extend rule over Proskur, Ilipur, Pros, Eversult, and the lands of of the sunset mountains and will dislodge the Zhents from Darkhold in the next year. The great Glacier is melted. The Pirates of the Inner Sea have been swept away and the central islands have been claimed by the new Cromark of Westgate. The Arauroch Desert is being turned fertile though other means. The Empire of Shadow was defeated at the end of that third novel because they deserved to be defeated because they were lame. I've decided that over the past two decades Thay has decided to conquer Thesk (with the exception of Telflamm) and Narfell as they are easily conquerable and it makes sense for them to have done so. One of the Manshoon's has become a Lich, raised an undead army, and conquered Damara. He is actually a good ruler because he's looking to have a really big undead army in another hundred years. I've had half of Sembia overgrown with forest. Ordulin is in ruins and Yhaunn is an independent city-state. Daerlun and Urmlaspyr are likely to get incorporated into Cormyr in another decade. I have Mystra slated to die in a few years. An empire of an other world is invading southern Faerun. It's populated by the odd spawn of that worlds orcs and elves who view dwarves and halflings as slave races. I've knocked off AO and replaced him with someone competent. Death has become mysterious. Through an involved story I'm going to move the continents roughly back to where they were before the elves moved them. That means that Maztica will once again exist over the area where Evermeet was raised. Evermeet will simply disappear. Elves all over the realms are falling to calamities long due to them. They won't be around much longer.

My current year is 1386 DR and nearly all of that has occurred.
I could fill a source book with my changes.

1479 has a bunch of the same things. Mystra dead. Cormyr expanded (though still not enough, after a hundred years cormyr should be to Scornubel in the West, Starmantle in the East, the Snakewood in the South, and). Baldur's Gate largest city in faerun. A new race from another world conquering portions of Faerun (although a lot smaller slice then my home-brewed one is conquering). Vast portions of Faerun are physically changing (not the portions I changed or how I would change them, but no two people have the same ideas on terra-forming). A consolidation of the gods (definitely different then how I was going about it. I may steal a few of their changes.)

I already deviate form the source material, because it's my faerun and I'll do what I want with it.

I do still look at new FR material even though I most likely will not need it, and I have to make rulings on whether stories in the novels did or did not occur in my Realms. But now the canon that WotC contributes to my game is finite. There is no book that they can publish now that I'll have to consider as adding to the canon I'm altering. I'm free from having to consider such things. I'm likely to pick up the new Pantheon book they will be coming out with because a lot of what they are doing with the gods is addressing a lot of the problems I've been addressing. But all it is is a suggestion of what might be had things been different. That's all the source material has ever been is a suggestion. You don't have to use it that way. You can change what you like. Now it's just official.

I'm not picking up Fourth Edition and do not foresee having to spend any money on this hobby then $30 on the Pantheon book.

I think this is freedom.

All a campaign setting is there for is to provide the DM with a fleshed out starting point. I have that and they will not be adding any more to that body of knowledge.

So use the new material or not. If you want a new beginning to work from it is there for you. For me, the newly created canon well and truly doesn't matter any more, so I'll go my own way. I was already doing so anyway.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
01-25-08, 01:47 PM 1479 has a bunch of the same things. Mystra dead. Cormyr expanded (though still not enough, after a hundred years cormyr should be to Scornubel in the West, Starmantle in the East, the Snakewood in the South, and).

This is a nitpick, I know, but I don't agree that that kind of expansion is a given. Personally, I would have the lands around Scornubel be a seperate growing kingdom, not part of an empire.:)

I already deviate form the source material, because it's my faerun and I'll do what I want with it.

Definitely. I agree with the spirit of your post.
kelcimer
01-25-08, 03:41 PM This is a nitpick, I know, but I don't agree that that kind of expansion is a given. Personally, I would have the lands around Scornubel be a seperate growing kingdom, not part of an empire.:)

This is where if you were a player of mine I'd get into negotiations with you over what happens with Scornubel. It has the potential to withstand the expansion of Cormyr and even flourish as a kingdom. Or it could be Cormyrs new Arabel. Cormyr would not have the will, I think, to bring Scornubel under it's rule when everything hunky dorry. If Cormyr is entrenched in the Sunset Mountains and Scornubel was in a sustained period of choas that had a destabilizing influence on Cormyrian interests in the region, then I could see Cormyr having a window of opportunity to assert some order. That's assuming that the Crown's attention is not diverted elsewhere.
Charles Phipps
01-25-08, 03:59 PM There is no book that they can publish now that I'll have to consider as adding to the canon I'm altering. I'm free from having to consider such things.

Oddly, all I can think of is...

"Wow, Fans actually don't adapt unrelated source material? I've run Ravenloft, Dragonlance, Planescape, and Birthright games in the Realms. That's just sad."
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
01-25-08, 04:25 PM This is where if you were a player of mine I'd get into negotiations with you over what happens with Scornubel.

Well, if it was *your* Realms, I might well play along.:) I'm just saying that in *my* Realms I would do things differently (which is kind of your point, I think).
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
01-25-08, 04:26 PM Oddly, all I can think of is...

"Wow, Fans actually don't adapt unrelated source material? I've run Ravenloft, Dragonlance, Planescape, and Birthright games in the Realms. That's just sad."

How is it sad? People use the settings differently.
kelcimer
01-25-08, 04:34 PM "Wow, Fans actually don't adapt unrelated source material? I've run Ravenloft, Dragonlance, Planescape, and Birthright games in the Realms. That's just sad."

I think you misunderstand me. I've taken things from Ravenloft, if not the other settings. No worries there. What I mean is that whenever any product concerning them or any other setting is released, there is no expectation for me to have to account for it in my realms because they are not realms products. The 1479 will not be considered source material for my game, so I do not have to account for what happens in those products.
Charles Phipps
01-25-08, 05:55 PM I think you misunderstand me. I've taken things from Ravenloft, if not the other settings. No worries there. What I mean is that whenever any product concerning them or any other setting is released, there is no expectation for me to have to account for it in my realms because they are not realms products. The 1479 will not be considered source material for my game, so I do not have to account for what happens in those products.

I understand that, but I'm just saying that I came on in 2nd Edition's beginning and that didn't stop me from buying stuff from 1st Edition despite the fact that it was irrelevant to my games.
MarkusTay63
01-26-08, 11:55 AM I also run a VERY different world then the official, and yet, I try to stick to canon history as tightly as possible. I've been able to that by keeping my campaign ahead of the curve (1390), and by having players that know very little about the setting. That sort of 'forces' me to insert things I don't like (like the Shades) into my world, in case they do something history-altering, but I just choose to ignore their existance for the most part (like the Shadow Weave).

Of course, my strategy just got nuked, because the new campaign date blew me by. Of course, if they stick to their word (which they never do), we will get NO lore concerning the events from 1385 - 1479 DR, which DOES help me out.

So, I suppose I have just earned 'Freedom' as well, by the definition of the OP. It really doesn't maatter what I do if I move my game to 1390 (which I plan), because, supposedly, nothing will EVER contradict it.

But we shall see...

One thing, though. I understand why fans of the story-lines would be upset, but gamers really shouldn't care. If you continue to move your games along at the prescribed 2 years game time = 5 years real time, and your game is set in the current year of 1375, then you will NOT have to worry about ANY of this until 2033!!!

And since most folk's game take place in an even earlier year, then they won't have to worry about anything until they are running games in the retirement home. :P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kelcimer 01-25-08, 11:19 AM	It's the end of the Faerun as we know it, and I feel fine. There are things about the 1479 that I like and stuff that I dislike. I like a fair bit of what they are doing with the gods. I like the increased stature of Baldur's Gate. I think the Changinglands and the Dragonborn are lame. Apparently the Shades are still around. And I'm sure that there are other aspects that will be released that I'll not like. But I'm not very irritated by the whole thing. Because if I were to update the Realms I would do similar drastic things. I've blown up Waterdeep and took the Mad Mage and Blackstaff with him. I retconned that the Great Dale never carved itself out of the Forest of Lethyr. I've already had Cormyr extend rule over Proskur, Ilipur, Pros, Eversult, and the lands of of the sunset mountains and will dislodge the Zhents from Darkhold in the next year. The great Glacier is melted. The Pirates of the Inner Sea have been swept away and the central islands have been claimed by the new Cromark of Westgate. The Arauroch Desert is being turned fertile though other means. The Empire of Shadow was defeated at the end of that third novel because they deserved to be defeated because they were lame. I've decided that over the past two decades Thay has decided to conquer Thesk (with the exception of Telflamm) and Narfell as they are easily conquerable and it makes sense for them to have done so. One of the Manshoon's has become a Lich, raised an undead army, and conquered Damara. He is actually a good ruler because he's looking to have a really big undead army in another hundred years. I've had half of Sembia overgrown with forest. Ordulin is in ruins and Yhaunn is an independent city-state. Daerlun and Urmlaspyr are likely to get incorporated into Cormyr in another decade. I have Mystra slated to die in a few years. An empire of an other world is invading southern Faerun. It's populated by the odd spawn of that worlds orcs and elves who view dwarves and halflings as slave races. I've knocked off AO and replaced him with someone competent. Death has become mysterious. Through an involved story I'm going to move the continents roughly back to where they were before the elves moved them. That means that Maztica will once again exist over the area where Evermeet was raised. Evermeet will simply disappear. Elves all over the realms are falling to calamities long due to them. They won't be around much longer. My current year is 1386 DR and nearly all of that has occurred. I could fill a source book with my changes. 1479 has a bunch of the same things. Mystra dead. Cormyr expanded (though still not enough, after a hundred years cormyr should be to Scornubel in the West, Starmantle in the East, the Snakewood in the South, and). Baldur's Gate largest city in faerun. A new race from another world conquering portions of Faerun (although a lot smaller slice then my home-brewed one is conquering). Vast portions of Faerun are physically changing (not the portions I changed or how I would change them, but no two people have the same ideas on terra-forming). A consolidation of the gods (definitely different then how I was going about it. I may steal a few of their changes.) I already deviate form the source material, because it's my faerun and I'll do what I want with it. I do still look at new FR material even though I most likely will not need it, and I have to make rulings on whether stories in the novels did or did not occur in my Realms. But now the canon that WotC contributes to my game is finite. There is no book that they can publish now that I'll have to consider as adding to the canon I'm altering. I'm free from having to consider such things. I'm likely to pick up the new Pantheon book they will be coming out with because a lot of what they are doing with the gods is addressing a lot of the problems I've been addressing. But all it is is a suggestion of what might be had things been different. That's all the source material has ever been is a suggestion. You don't have to use it that way. You can change what you like. Now it's just official. I'm not picking up Fourth Edition and do not foresee having to spend any money on this hobby then $30 on the Pantheon book. I think this is freedom. All a campaign setting is there for is to provide the DM with a fleshed out starting point. I have that and they will not be adding any more to that body of knowledge. So use the new material or not. If you want a new beginning to work from it is there for you. For me, the newly created canon well and truly doesn't matter any more, so I'll go my own way. I was already doing so anyway.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-25-08, 01:47 PM	1479 has a bunch of the same things. Mystra dead. Cormyr expanded (though still not enough, after a hundred years cormyr should be to Scornubel in the West, Starmantle in the East, the Snakewood in the South, and). This is a nitpick, I know, but I don't agree that that kind of expansion is a given. Personally, I would have the lands around Scornubel be a seperate growing kingdom, not part of an empire.:) I already deviate form the source material, because it's my faerun and I'll do what I want with it. Definitely. I agree with the spirit of your post.
kelcimer 01-25-08, 03:41 PM	This is a nitpick, I know, but I don't agree that that kind of expansion is a given. Personally, I would have the lands around Scornubel be a seperate growing kingdom, not part of an empire.:) This is where if you were a player of mine I'd get into negotiations with you over what happens with Scornubel. It has the potential to withstand the expansion of Cormyr and even flourish as a kingdom. Or it could be Cormyrs new Arabel. Cormyr would not have the will, I think, to bring Scornubel under it's rule when everything hunky dorry. If Cormyr is entrenched in the Sunset Mountains and Scornubel was in a sustained period of choas that had a destabilizing influence on Cormyrian interests in the region, then I could see Cormyr having a window of opportunity to assert some order. That's assuming that the Crown's attention is not diverted elsewhere.
Charles Phipps 01-25-08, 03:59 PM	There is no book that they can publish now that I'll have to consider as adding to the canon I'm altering. I'm free from having to consider such things. Oddly, all I can think of is... "Wow, Fans actually don't adapt unrelated source material? I've run Ravenloft, Dragonlance, Planescape, and Birthright games in the Realms. That's just sad."
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-25-08, 04:25 PM	This is where if you were a player of mine I'd get into negotiations with you over what happens with Scornubel. Well, if it was your Realms, I might well play along.:) I'm just saying that in my Realms I would do things differently (which is kind of your point, I think).
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-25-08, 04:26 PM	Oddly, all I can think of is... "Wow, Fans actually don't adapt unrelated source material? I've run Ravenloft, Dragonlance, Planescape, and Birthright games in the Realms. That's just sad." How is it sad? People use the settings differently.
kelcimer 01-25-08, 04:34 PM	"Wow, Fans actually don't adapt unrelated source material? I've run Ravenloft, Dragonlance, Planescape, and Birthright games in the Realms. That's just sad." I think you misunderstand me. I've taken things from Ravenloft, if not the other settings. No worries there. What I mean is that whenever any product concerning them or any other setting is released, there is no expectation for me to have to account for it in my realms because they are not realms products. The 1479 will not be considered source material for my game, so I do not have to account for what happens in those products.
Charles Phipps 01-25-08, 05:55 PM	I think you misunderstand me. I've taken things from Ravenloft, if not the other settings. No worries there. What I mean is that whenever any product concerning them or any other setting is released, there is no expectation for me to have to account for it in my realms because they are not realms products. The 1479 will not be considered source material for my game, so I do not have to account for what happens in those products. I understand that, but I'm just saying that I came on in 2nd Edition's beginning and that didn't stop me from buying stuff from 1st Edition despite the fact that it was irrelevant to my games.
MarkusTay63 01-26-08, 11:55 AM	I also run a VERY different world then the official, and yet, I try to stick to canon history as tightly as possible. I've been able to that by keeping my campaign ahead of the curve (1390), and by having players that know very little about the setting. That sort of 'forces' me to insert things I don't like (like the Shades) into my world, in case they do something history-altering, but I just choose to ignore their existance for the most part (like the Shadow Weave). Of course, my strategy just got nuked, because the new campaign date blew me by. Of course, if they stick to their word (which they never do), we will get NO lore concerning the events from 1385 - 1479 DR, which DOES help me out. So, I suppose I have just earned 'Freedom' as well, by the definition of the OP. It really doesn't maatter what I do if I move my game to 1390 (which I plan), because, supposedly, nothing will EVER contradict it. But we shall see... One thing, though. I understand why fans of the story-lines would be upset, but gamers really shouldn't care. If you continue to move your games along at the prescribed 2 years game time = 5 years real time, and your game is set in the current year of 1375, then you will NOT have to worry about ANY of this until 2033!!! And since most folk's game take place in an even earlier year, then they won't have to worry about anything until they are running games in the retirement home. :P