Post/Author/DateTime	Post
canadianguy 04-24-05, 10:47 PM	Hi, Please pardon any typos as it is late and I have 2 kids under 3, I currently qualify as brain dead. I had a campaign idea and needed some help with fluff and would appreciate any comments in general. I am thinking of basing a campaign aorund stopping a Shar cultists plot to find a n intact copy of the Netheril scrolls buried in Myth Dranor. The cultists are thinking of finding the spell that allowed Deity hood and casting it using the shadow weave. What I am looking for is any 3.5 info on Myth Dranor or if there isn't much 3'.0 sources would be great. Next I would love if anyone has some hints or ideas as to how to structure this little cult that will challenge the characters. Thanks, and really all ideas would be appreciated. I
Kuje31 04-24-05, 11:18 PM	The 3.0 Pool of Radiance: Attack on Myth Drannor module is the last sourcebook for that city. The Return of the Arch Wizards novels also has info on Myth Drannor.
Dargoth 04-25-05, 01:14 AM	Also I believe Ed Greenwood gave us more info about Myth Drannors current Devil population (see Kuje31s sig for a link) Also the 3rd WOSQ novel features Myth Drannor
Tempus665 04-25-05, 01:39 AM	The cultists are thinking of finding the spell that allowed Deity hood and casting it using the shadow weave. Wouldn't that kill Shar? Lost Empires of Fearūn also has a little (3.5) info on Myth Drannor, although it's not much. I'm currently running an adventure there and using the old boxed set.
ClobberinTime 04-25-05, 12:27 PM	So one key is the whole mythal is a wild magic area, so the PC's need to make a wild magic check everytime they cast a spell or get some kind of wild surge effect, this can be taken right out of the FRCS. Plus there are dead magic Zones all over myth drannor too. In return of the Archwizards the Shadovar, who worship shar fight with the Phaenrim's in the ruins of Myth Drannor, I have no doubt that even now they search the ruins for the Nether Scrolls hidden away in windsong tower. I would read the Return of the Archwizards trilogy, PGtF, and the Shade parts of the FRCS.
canadianguy 04-25-05, 04:00 PM	HI, I have read the tirlogy and got some of my ideas from it. M ytought was Shar mgiht help the individual as there are potential opening for magic deities ie sorcerors, certion specialties etc. Or she could be triyig to bait Mystra into cutitng off the weave agian but usurping at that instant with the shadow weave. Just some ideas that cna drive the cultists doesn't necessarily have to wrok. gives the heros someting to stop.
ClobberinTime 04-25-05, 05:17 PM	The idea of the Shadovar getting the Nether Scrolls is enough to send shivers down every good leaning person of faerun. Like you said imagine if by reading them a shadow adept could learn to use the Shadow Weave without taking the Shadow Adept Presitge class, the possibilities would be endless.
canadianguy 04-25-05, 09:32 PM	I know and that is the hook. Yo could have guys pretending to befighting the phaermin(sp?) but really sekeing the scrools, pretending to be cleairng out the devils/demons. SO any good hooks. Any other ideas?
ClobberinTime 04-25-05, 09:52 PM	#1 start the campaign out by having the PCs hired to recover some elven artifacts somewhere other than Myth Drannor. They come to realize that the person who hired them works for the shades (around 7th to 10th levels or so), and that the pieces they are collecting form a map of some kind or are keys to open places in Myth Drannor. #2, Have one of the players be a Netherise survivor, i.e. has Netherese blood, the shadovar try and convert them to their side. #3 Have the Shadovar capture the PC's and force them to explore parts of the ruins for them alaa Vala #4 Have the PC's hired to spy on the Shadovar, for who???? The Zhents..... #5 This has to happen at least once, Mystery portal where does it lead??? Mulhorand, ah darn we better get back to Myth Drannor quick..... #6 Mystery Shade riding shadow dragon over ruins alah the Nazgul. #7 The enemy of my enemy is my friend, hello phaenrim. What level are they anyways????
canadianguy 04-26-05, 08:23 PM	Hi, I am looking at 6 charcters starting at around 6-10. There are going to be 4 cult of Shar cells each led by an individual around 14-16 level, thinking a warlock, cleric shar, wizard/incantrix, mystic theurge. The cells are all working independent and may even end up being palyed off by the characters if they are smart enough to pick up on it. I like the idea of birnging in the shadovar they might be the power behind one or two of the cult cells. I like the idea of the finding pieces that create a map with special keys/codes etc to get through the mythal.
capn 04-27-05, 08:38 AM	The 3.0 Pool of Radiance: Attack on Myth Drannor module is the last sourcebook for that city. The Return of the Arch Wizards novels also has info on Myth Drannor. Where abouts does this adventure sit on the current timeline?
Kuje31 04-27-05, 11:43 AM	Where abouts does this adventure sit on the current timeline? Since it ties in with the computer game and the novel I'd say 1369 since WOTC says the novel is set in 1369.
canadianguy 04-27-05, 08:38 PM	I was going to have mine occur just after the books ended.
The Simbul 04-28-05, 12:41 PM	1) Simply even knowing that the Nether Scrolls exist (in transmuted form) in Windsong Tower requires a Knowledge (History, Cormanthyr) check with a DC of 30. That is assuming that the PC/NPC is of a race/regional connection to ancestors of Cormanthyr, if not then the DC would increase by at least 5. Given the fact that the Shadovar havent been on Faerun since the fall of Netheril, and have only returned a mere 2 years ago, it would be more than appropriate to increase the DC further, or assign additional circumstance penalties to their check. By most accounts, very few denizens of the Enclave of Shade are going to have ranks in a Knowledge skill pertaining to historical events they werent around to percieve, from a region they would have little to no care for, therefore they are highly unlikely to be aware of the location of the scrolls (and if they were, they probably would have tried to retrieve them when they actually where in Myth Drannor in 1372). 2) Possessing the Nether Scrolls, either in part or in total, will do nothing to teach or enable someone to cast Karsus' Avatar, or any other of the powerful netherese spells in their original form. Post Karsus Folly, 10th, 11th, and 12th level spells no longer exist, and their effects can no only be emulated by Epic Spellcasting. If the Shadow Weave possessed the ability to allow actual 10th, 11th, and 12th level spells to be cast, then it would explicitly say so in the rules. Some of the bonuses from the scrolls may assist in the creation and casting of epic spells, however Karsus Avatar has only ever existed as a 12th level spell, and has not officially been given an epic spellcasting version. In addition, the 3E rules for deities, despite being watered down from 2E, still will allow most Greater Powers to forsee the loss of their portfolio via events related to it long before it transpires, which can be quite problematic for their would-be mortal usurpers. In addition, the presence of Shades in Myth Drannor is going to draw the ire of the Elves, many of whom, as of 1374 DR, are no longer willing to stand back and allow their remaining refuges and abandoned realms in Faerun be plundered and abused by evil beings. At the very least the presence of Shadovar in Myth Drannor, or any group of adventureres actively seeking the Nether Scrolls or Windsong Tower, is going to draw the attention of the Olin Gisir, most of Faerun's remaining High Mages, Mystra's Chosen, and the Elven crusade army from Evermeet that by most accounts will be chasing down Sarya Dlardrageth's Daemonfey armies to Myth Drannor's ruins in the coming months (i.e. via Farthest Reach).
canadianguy 04-28-05, 02:05 PM	Hi, My characters were going to be those humans/elves/halfelves that would wish to stop the shadovar. Secondly, who knows what they know. Maybe they have links to ancient items that assist them in locating lost items of antiquities. As far as what spells can't or shouldn't work because Mystra said no doesn't mean Shar won't support equivalents or that she can't with the shadow weave. Remember she ideally seeks the return of the time when it was only her. She might just be willing to start some twisted little god war if it would end up causing enough destruction.
DollNamedSanity 04-28-05, 02:45 PM	You were looking for crunch and fluff for Myth Drannor right? Well, I think I read somewhere that any ordinary housecat that gives birth or dies within the confines of the warped mythal, the kittens, or the dead cat, turn undead. Cat zombies. Not very dangererous but very creepy. And as for how your characters may be led to Myth Drannor with the Nether scrolls on their mind, there are plenty of manipulative characters out there who would have been around since the inception of Myth Drannor and who know plenty (Can we say Dragons [good or evil] or Mind Flayers?)
The Simbul 04-28-05, 04:17 PM	Hi, My characters were going to be those humans/elves/halfelves that would wish to stop the shadovar. I know, which is why I am explaining that the antagonists are unlikely to know the location of the Nether Scrolls. If the Netherese at the height of their Empire couldnt find them, then I dont think the followers of the academic reject known as Telemont Tanthul is going to possess the resources needed to magically find them. As far as what spells can't or shouldn't work because Mystra said no doesn't mean Shar won't support equivalents or that she can't with the shadow weave.While 3E books like the FRCS and MoF love to fall all over themselves with diatribe about how special the Shadow Weave is, and how it is immune to Mystra's Laws and restrictions, the end result is that Mystra's Ban (the removal of spell levels beyond 9th) is still expected to apply universally. Primarily because, 10th, 11th, and 12th spell levels dont exist anywhere in 3E D&D. The paradonx that results from this is precisely what you get when designers arbitrarily toss in new concepts (i.e. the Shadow Weave) out of nowhere into a pre-existing setting, without bothering to fully think through what retroactive loopholes will be opened by ret-conning something that major into the campaign setting. While the Shadow Weave may be separate from the weave, that doesnt mean you are intended to be able to cast actual 10, 11th, and 12th level spells just by virtue of taking one simple feat (Shadow Weave Magic). 10th-12th level spells dont exist anywhere in 3.5E D&D, and the only mention of them in a 3.5 book takes place in Lost Empires of Faerun, under Mystra's Ban and Epic Magic, where they state that such spell levels used to exist, but are no longer possible. The fact that LEoF even acknowledges the existance of 10th-12th level spells, as opposed to having all post-9th-level-magic be covered by Epic Spellcasting (which in the end is what we are left with in the current realms anyways), is nothing more than 2E baggage worming its way into a new edition system that has absolutey no use for it. Spellcasters on other planes of existance are just as immune to Mystra's restrictions (i.e Deny Weave) as Shadow Weave spellcasters. Does this mean if I plane shift to the Astral Plane that I can somehow use my 10th, 11th, and 12th spell slots (via Improved Spell Capacity) to cast actual 10th, 11th, and 12th level spells that dont exist anywhere in the game? Of course it doesnt. For all intents and purposes, those no-longer existant-plot-device-spell-levels-beyond-9th may have simply been a manifestation of Mystrl's grace, exclusive to her Weave, as a gift limited to the spellcasters or Toril who drew on her Weave. Likewise, for all intents and purposes the Shadow Weave may have never been capable of supporting such spells, and the fact that it is patroned by a Deity who has no portfolio or domain influences over magic makes it seem a likely result. Now of course you could always attempt to use the scrolls to create an Epic Spellcasting version of Karsus Avatar, much in the way that there is an Epic Spellcasting (as opposed to 10th level spell) version of Proctiv's Move Mountain. In addition, you could use the Shadow Weave to cast the spell, in which case Mystra is unable to directly foresee it with her portfolio sense (although any after-shock effects on magic through her weave will allow her to forsee it indirectly) and unable to use one of her 23 salient divine abilities to stop it (Deny Weave). But even in that scenario the +30 spellcract bonus is likely to not suffice for whatever final DC the Epic Spell may have, and 90% of Epic Spell seeds are of an effect, type, or descriptor that makes most greater deities utterly immune to them. In addition, you still have to be wary of the wrath of other gods, either on the NPC or on Shar herself.
The Simbul 04-28-05, 11:55 PM	BTW, sorry if I sound rather harsh in my advice/opinions, I simply have a very strong dislike for both Karsus Avatar and the Shadow Weave. As a last resort, one of the easiest ways to keep Windsong Tower (and its contents) out of the hands of the Shadovar is to petition Corellon Larethian or Mystra to seize it. If Shar can snatch up the Karsestone to keep it out of the hands of Cyric, then it is perfectly apropriate for any of the good deities of magic to seize the Nether Scrolls to keep them out of the hands of the Shadovar. I would also suggest having at least one of the Players be an Olin Gisir (prc in Lost Empires of Faerun), simply given the nature of the location the adventure will take place in. Lastly, in the absence of any definative information about the Myth Drannor or Windsong Tower, I would suggest using 2E material that covers any issue that hasnt been revisited in 3E.
ClobberinTime 04-29-05, 10:40 AM	So the Netherise could never figure out who stole the scrolls then or even that the elves had them period. One thing, more people migh know now than knew then and be less secretive about it. If this is so then that extradimensional space is pretty much impossible to get into unless it wants to be gotten into. I would re-found the mythal in mythdrannor, maybe that will get someone's attention. Last Mythal series is probably going to end that way anyways....
The Simbul 04-29-05, 04:47 PM	One thing, more people migh know now than knew then and be less secretive about it.Alternatively almost all the people who did know back then can be either dead or otherwise unreachable, and over the years such knowledge would have became almost non-existant.
ClobberinTime 05-04-05, 11:01 AM	I was thinking more along the lines of- its a big secret in the past because the Netherese are going to blast cormanthyr to dust if they find out they stole the scrolls from them, so they really have to keep it secret. Once Netheril is gone it might loosen the lips some, think about your own life, its way easier to keep a secret when it is very important to do so than when things calm down a little. Plus if the Shades ever get wind of it they are going to do the proverbial 'all in' move on Myth Drannor. Heck I could see Ioulam coming back to the surface to get his hands back on them- Actually what a great plot hook, the Alhoon in Myth stumbling onto evidence of the scrolls reporting back to the boss, and him and his alhoon minions trying to take over the city. With most of the Phaenrim gone, it would be easy now. Maybe he even re-casts the mythal with some high level alhoon helpers to make it a city of darkness. I love it........
ClobberinTime 05-04-05, 11:04 AM	Now that I think about it, rediscovery of the scrolls could start a war the like of which has never been seen in the FR, virtually everyone would go all in on it- The chosen, the RWs, the Zhents, the Elves, the Shades, Ioulam, Larloch, cormyr, it would be totally nuts.
DollNamedSanity 05-04-05, 12:49 PM	Don't forget the Halruuans, I'm sure they would want a piece of the action. Not to mention Just about every Dragon within scrying reach. But I think that THIS particular plot twist would be best set in 1377+ when Wendonai (the Balor that tempted and bartered the souls of the dark elves and eventually led them to the worship of Lolth) can be summoned back to the realms from his banishment.