Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MarkusTay63 03-08-08, 04:43 PM	NEW Information: For a list of the current (4e) FR Gods and their Spheres, click HERE. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=16558124&postcount=7) For an updated list of info from the FRCG, click HERE for Derren's Enworld thread (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?p=4424966#post4424966). Old Stuff: I've been wanting to start a thread like this for awhile now, and I'm suprised no one else has (actually, I was hoping someone else would). Basically, I just want SOLID information listed here, NOT conjecture. I keep seeing the same exact questions over and over again in the Designer's thread, and I want a 'home' for people to come to to get an overview of the changes, and perhaps get an idea of whats to become of their 'favorite locale'. Disclaimer:This information is based on the last known condition of each entry, and could change as of 1479 DR: 4th Edition. Also, be aware that SPOILERS are included in this thread - you have been warned! Regions Faerūn Proper: Aglarond - Something happens to the Simbul, but otherwise unknown Akanūl - New nation of Genasi in Chondath, Airspur is capital Altumbel - Unknown Amn - Unknown, except for loss of Maztican colonies Anauroch - Shade Empire asserts more control, desert begins to recede Baldur's Gate - City has grown exponentially, a major interacial metropolis Border Kingdoms - Unknown Calimshan - Memnon makes a return and now rules much of the land Chessenta - Western portion same as Chondath, replaced with Abeiran land of Shyr, a kingdom of Genasi Chondath - Becomes the 'Changing Lands', with Earthmotes and morphing terrain. Chondath's free-floating earthmotes have been claimed by Air gensai and call their nation Akanūl. The capital is called Airspur. According to the LFR writing director they are having trouble along the border with Tymanther. .. Chondalwood - a confusion of ravines and floating junglemotes, some sailing free, others webbed to lower jungle regions by thick vines and vegetation. Chult - broken off from continent, most likely an island chain Cormanthor - Kingdom of Elves Cormyr - grows into an empire, and extends control east and south .. Helmlands - Still Wild Magic, but it has grown and is filled with "towering Redwoods"* .. Farsea Swamp - Swamps have become one, and are filled with Batrachi ruins .. Hullack Forest - Claimed by the Eldreth Veluuthra (?!) .. Realm of Wailing Fog - A mist-shrouded region between the Thunderpeaks and Hullack Forest .. Thunderpeaks - It appears Mountains of Glass now connect the northern part of the range with the southern Dalelands - Still exist, but somehow seperate within the confines of Cormanthor Damara - Unknown (possible tie to Bahamut) Dambrath - Fairs better then most other southern powers Dragon Coast - Unknown Elturgard - A new political entity to the west of Cormyr Erlkazar - Unknown, attacked by 'flying fortress' sometime between 3e-4e Evermeet - Unknown, but something most likely happening here (NDAs mentioned) Great Dale - Unknown Great Rift - Still there, but has suffered somewhat Halruaa - Gone, massive magical backlash destroys the region, but some survive and become mercenaries Hartsvale - Unknown, but changes in giants means changes here, most likely High Forest - Unknown High Moor - Unknown as of 1479 DR, but most likely a 'city' will be there ;) Hordelands - Unknown, still no word on the fairly new Kingdom of Yaļmmunahar Impiltur - Unknown Lake of Mists (Raumathari) - Unknown Lake of Steam - Unknown Lantan - Unknown Lapaliiya - Non-existant, Spellplague destroyed it and tribal Elves now wander its plains. Luiren - Nothing yet, but expect 'something' to allow the Hin to become more 4e-ish Luskan - Obliterated... AGAIN Many Arrows - Orcs still around, and still suffering 'growing pains' a century later Moonsea - Unknown, but Zhents still active Moonshaes - Broken into smaller Human Kingdoms, Fey return Mulhorand - Nothing specific, but something major Murghōm - Nothing specific, but it is getting a lot more attention in 4e (two pages!) Narfell - Unknown Narjara - it's still around in 1479, and it's a significant problem for some of the nearby lands Nelanther - Unknown Neverwinter - Destroyed (by the Storm of Zehir?) Nimbral - Hit HARD, otherwise unknown Pelvuria - Unknown, but something going on with Frost Giants Rashemen - Unknown, but WILL be effected one way or another by Thay's condition Raurin - Although Darkvision alludes to a return of the Imaskari to the surface, still an unknown in 4e Samarach - seperated from mainland, mostly destroyed Savage Frontier - Relatively Untouched, like Swordcoast Sea of Fallen Stars - Water Level has gone down, large portions drained into the Glimmer Sea below Sembia - Controlled by the Empire of Netheril (Shades) Semphar - Unknown Sespech - becomes the Plaguewrought Lands, where folks can gain 'Spellscars' Shaar, The - Split by a HUGE rift leading into the Underdark Shaareach - Missing; last seen 2nd edition Shining Lands - Unknown Silver Marches - Still exists (called Luruar again), and Alustriel is dead Songfarla - Unknown, may not be detailed until Gnomes become PC race Sossal - Unknown Stormwind - New Zhent City, located between Westgate and Starmantle, run by Manshoon Swordcoast - Relatively untouched Sothillisian Empire - Capital Murannheim (former Murann) - last report had them allying with Amnish forces against the Tlincallis of Oaxatupa, still existing in 4e Tashalar - Another land devasted by the Spellplague Tethyr - Unknown, but almost no changes Tharsult - Obliterated Thay - Becomes a spectacularly high plateau, making it an even more distant (epic?) 'adventure area' Thesk - Unknown Thindol - Seperated From Mainland, possibly destroyed Threskel - Unknown, but Tchazzar had designs on it Turmish - Becomes xenophobic, lots of 'pilgrims' travelling through to the Plaguelands Ulgarth - Unknown Underchasm - a continent-sized pit stretching from the Shaar to the Inner Sea Underdark - More accessable Unther - GONE, has become the Dragonborn Kingdom Tymanther Utter East - Unknown Vassa - Ruled by warlocks tied to a mysterious primordial entity called Telos Vast, The - Unknown Veldorn - Nothing, as usual Vilhon Reach - becomes the 'Vilhon Wilds', Jaamdath Cities exposed Waterdeep - Statues do some damage, otherwise unknown (but appears to be Okay) Westgate - Much the same, except the Yakuza now battle the Fire-Knives Other lands and Realmspace: Abeir - Another 'world', that at one time was part of Toril Anchorome - Will be getting ignored... AGAIN Kara-Tur - Still there, but mostly ignored Katashaka - Unknown Malatra - Unknown Maztica - Completely gone and replaced with something else (returned Abeir :yuck:) Myrmidune - Unknown Osse - Unknown Selūne - The illusion hiding the moon's habitability has failed Zakhara - Still there, but completely ignored The Sphere - Condition of other worlds and 'The March' unknown The Divine The Gods: Amaunator - Replaces/becomes Lathander in 4e Asmodeus - Now a God Azuth - Last seen "reeling into the Astral Plane" Confirmed Dead, by Asmodeus Bane - Goes (Hard)core Bahamut - * Need Info * Chauntea - re-absorbing her Yondalla aspect (probably along with several others) Cyric - Imprisoned last we heard Deep Duerra - Slain by Clangeddin Eilistaree - absorbs Vhaeraun, but finally killed by Lolth Ghaunadaur - Lloth attempted to kill, but it turned out to be an elder deity of unknown origin Gond - Rolled into Moradin Gorm Gulthyn - Dead Gruumsh - re-merging with Talos Haela Brightaxe - Dead Helm - Dead, killed by Tyr over Tymora Ilmater - Becomes Jack Tripper, and moves into Brightwater (:P) Laduguer - Killed by Moradin Lathander - Gone, most likely becomes Aumanator Lolth - Becomes Greater Power Mask - Not looking good; absent from FRCG and likely abosrbed by something Mystra - Dead, murdered by Cyric Nobanion - Exarch Druid (but subject to change) Missing from FRCG; likely dead Queen of Air and Darkness - There is an NDA about her in regards to the Realms - which means she must be making an appearance at some point in the setting Savras - Dead Selūne - re-absorbs her portion of Mystra, considered the same power as Sehanine Moonbow in 4e Selvetarm - absorbed by Lloth (GHotR) Sseth - New head-honcho of the Serpents Shar - Still around and causing trouble Siamorph - Move to Brightwaters Sune - Likely still around (given the 1384 events in GHotR) Set - Dead; supplanted by Sseth (and Zehir?!) Talos - Turns out to be an alias for Gruumsh Tiamet - * Need Info * Titania - There will be new lore but sjhe has been re-named in core Torm - rising in power and influence in 4e Tymora - alive but... chaste?! :uh-huh: Tyr - Dead Velsharoon - Seen "reeling into Astral" Confirmed: Even deader then before Vhaeraun - absorbed by Eilistraee Yondalla - Was really just an alias of Chauntea Zehir - Shoe-horned in at the last minute because some Moron screwed-up The Realms: City of Brass - More focus on it, located in the Elemental Maelstrom now Demonweb Pits - Its own plane now Dweomer Heart - Gone Elemental Maelstrom - Combination of the Elemental Planes and the Abyss Faerie - This is a plane within FR's Cosmology, and at least a part of the Feywild Far Realms - tied more closely to the Cosmology, may be major story-line Feywild - Realm of Faerie (the Fey) Great Tree - Gone, new (core) Cosmology taking root Great Wheel - No longer the 'center of the Universe', but still accessable Nine Hells - Relatively unchanged, except Asmodeus is a full God now Palace of the Four Suns - New Godly Domain for Amaunator Shadowfell - The Plane of Shadows combined with the Negeative Energy Plane Sigil - Still exists, but changes Unknown Bloodwar - Endeed by the Spellplague (WTF?!), 'Loths become Demons Dramatis Personae People: Blackstaff Arunson - Sacrificed himself to save others, most definately permanently dead Bruenor Battlehammer - Dead Drizzt - Alive and more 'angsty' then ever Elminster - Still alive but nearly insane Fzoul - Becomes an Exarch (Demi-power) Halaster - 'Dead', soul shattered Khelben Arunson - the real one is still living in GH, AFAIK ;) Manshoon - At least one of him is still alive - Orbak (sp?), the Vampire, ruling from Stormwind Qilué Veladorn - Dead Seven Sisters - Syluné definately gone, others most likely Simbul - "Missing" Srinshee - Nothing for certain, but NDAs mentioned seem to imply she will be receiving some sort of 'update' come 4e Szass Tam - Around, and now fully in charge of Thay Vangerdahast - Alive, but very different Zalaznar Crinios - Becomes a very mean tree (Darktree Treant) and follower of Malar Organizations/Groups: Bregan D'aerthe - Unknown Casin Cu Calas - new, anti-Orc terrorist group for 4e Cult of the Dragon - Sammaster Dead, although cult may continue operation Eldreth Veluuthra - Operating out of the Hullack Forest now Emerald Enclave - pretty much gone Harpers - still around Heralds - Unknown Iron Throne - Power shattered, at least four leaders assasinated, existance in 1479 doubtful Moonstars - re-absorbed back into the Harpers Obould's Horde - Becomes the Kingdom Of Dark Arrows Order of Blue Fire - A group of 'experimenters' located in the Spellscarred Lands Pirates - Unknown, although the 'Fallen Stars' variety may be hard-pressed for sailable waters Red Wizards - still around but changed Rundeen - Unknown Sorority of the Silver Fire - Unknown if Sammaster's death affected this organization's goals Thayan Enclaves - No longer Thaymart, they have become a seperate mercantile group, and are considered expatriates Twisted Rune - Unknown Uthgardt - Still around, but wandering further west Zhents - Still around, and most likely more 'mercenary' Magic Spell Schools - Gone Dead Magic Zones - Still around Shadow Weave - absorbed back into the Shadowfell (only 90% sure about that one) Weave - Gone, replaced by the 'Arcane Power Source' Wild Magic Zones - even more prevalent then before Power Sources - take the place of spell schools, Spheres, divine patrons, etc Cerulean - is the new 'Blue' Races Aboleth - Have some sort of Kingdom (Abolethic Sovereignty) and shake things up Dragons - Color has little to do with alignment in 4e Drow - Seperate Race Now Dwarves - reunited with their Dark brethren Elves - become divided into the Eladrin and Wood Elves Fey'ri - Not a playable race from the outset Genasi - Playable race from their own Abeiran region of Shyr (eastern Chessenta), create nation (Akanūl) in Chondath Giants - become more 'Elemental' Giant Space Hamsters - (thankfully) Unknown Gnomes - considered 'monsters' ATM, not a PCR at the outset Halflings - Unknown, but become 'Swamplings' in core Illithid - have awar with the Dwarves, otherwise unknown LéShay - Fey Creator Race, or at least a part of it Orcs - Have their own Kingdom, become more 'civilized' Phaerimm - Nearly completely wiped out Shadar-Kai - Fey race living in the Shadowfell Sharn - Many become 'something else', but as of now there are still plenty left Tieflings - Playable race with their own Kingdom (not sure where yet) Classes Basics: All classes now derive abilities from a 'Power Source', even the Fighter (Martial Power Source). All classes will be able to choose a 'weapon of choice' - for magical types this will be some sort of 'Spell Foci' that gives bonuses. You will have three levels of abilities - At Will, per encounter, and per day. Also, classes will have three tiers - Heroic (1-10), paragon (11-20), and Exarch (21-30), and encounters will be built around the tier level. The following is just a VERY brief list of what we know - for the full disclosure on the classs, please refer to all the Infomation gathered over at Enworld on this subject (http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=4e#rules) (and many others concerning the 4e mechanics). I've tried to keep this FR-only, and Enworld has really been doing a bang-up job keeping track of the other stuff. Confirmed in the 4e PHB Cleric - No longer confined to just a 'healer' role, can be different alignment from their god Fighter - Book of Nine Swords is good indication where they're going with this Paladin - Any Alignment now Ranger - A 'Striker' type, ranged attacks Rogue - Another Striker, relying on 'sneaky' abilites to strike Warlock - Must make pacts to get powers, abilites depend on what the pacts were made to (Demonic, fey, etc) Warlord - A leader type Wizard - Makes things go 'boom', mental spells down-played (for psionicists) Future possibilities Bard - PHB2 Druid - Good possibility PHB2 Monk - Unknown, may be leaving this open for a 4e OA book Sorceror - Unknown, but NOT being folded into wizard Swordmage - confirmed for FRCG Swordsage - Another possibility for PHB2, maybe the Psionics book Psionicist - Will be in the 4e Psionics book, release timed to coincide with Eberron 4e *According to the FR Errata over at CK, Redwoods are NOT native to the Realms! The Forest of Wyrms list them for that wood, but they were brought in from elsewhere originally. Ergo, Redwoods ARE probably native to Abeir, and have been 'sneaking in' for years. ;) ________________________________________ ________________________________________ ____ I plan on expanding this list - this is just a rough start. Any and ALL help is welcome and GREATLY appreciated. I don't have the time to go through ALL of the blogs and Rich's responses, so if any of you can do a part of that it would be great. --- Mark
BadCatMan 03-08-08, 08:11 PM	Just off my favourite regions list (sob!): Chessenta: Western Chessenta (along with Chondath), including the Akanal, exchanged with Abeiran land of Shyr. Genasi from Shyr create their own kingdom here, but barely survive contact with Abolethic Sovereignty some years later. The land is filled with twisted earthen geography (earthmotes, etc). The "tempestuous population" of Genasi form the realm of Akanul, with capital city at Airspur. (Sounds kind of cool, but I want my Chessenta back, damnit!) The Vast: Unknown (Not a peep. I hope it stays un-mutilated, as it's the last pure area of the Realms to not get screwed over since 1st edition.)
Old Sage 03-08-08, 08:26 PM	You should add the phaerimm to the list of races. One of the portions of the 'Year of the Ageless One' article notes that the phaerimm have "now [as of 1479 DR] all but extirpated from the Realms."
MarkusTay63 03-08-08, 10:00 PM	Thanks guys, I will be updating the OP constantly as we learn new things. Also, if anyone can think of any categories I forgot, I'll be glad to add them.
Dark Wizard 03-08-08, 10:27 PM	Maybe specific locations, sites and landmarks. Then again that might just overlap with Regions enough to be included in each region when more information comes out.
MarkusTay63 03-08-08, 10:40 PM	Thats what I did, if you'll notice the Cormyr and Chondath regions. I will keep adding stuff as people feed it to me - I just added Organizations into the original post.
waytoomuchcoffee 03-09-08, 01:31 AM	Where you say "Orcs - Have their own Kingdom, become more 'civilized'", where was this info from? Do you know where this Kingdom is? Mountain Orcs or Grey Orcs?
Jiggawha 03-09-08, 07:28 AM	warlocks tied to a mysterious primordial entity rule Vaasa
Diffan 03-09-08, 07:57 AM	Where you say "Orcs - Have their own Kingdom, become more 'civilized'", where was this info from? Do you know where this Kingdom is? Mountain Orcs or Grey Orcs? From the newest novels of RA Salvatore. They form an Orc Kingdom called Dark Arrow which covers some distance in the north that borders the Moonwood and Mithral Hall.
Lord Karsus 03-09-08, 08:59 AM	-I see a lot of speculation, for a thread that supposed to be 'Just the Facts'. ;) Eilistraee: We know something bad happens to her followers. Elminster: Nothing says that he is insane. In fact, that he realizes the predicament he is in means he is quite lucid. He simply has new personalities in his head, which can be unleashed if he uses magic, which makes it seem to me that they are not 'good' people.
MarkusTay63 03-09-08, 12:46 PM	Anyone know anything about Tiamet and Bahamut? :confused: I know I read something about them, but I can't for the life of me remember what. -I see a lot of speculation, for a thread that supposed to be 'Just the Facts'. ;)Then you see wrong. The only thing I'm not sure of is the Shadow Weave, since even the designers seem to be confused about its status. Technically, the Shadow Weave won't exist (from Rich's posts), but in actuality they've just renamed it the 'Shadow Source' (or Umbral Source, or whatever). So yes, it's still there (in functionality), they're just calling it something different. Also, you may be thinking of the Seven sisters - Rich (or someone) has said "Their fans won't be very happy about what becomes of them", so yeah, I'm kinda reading into that. :smirk: My best guess is that they are inside El's head, but that would be pure speculation. -Eilistraee: We know something bad happens to her followers.Not sure were to put that... -Elminster: Nothing says that he is insane. In fact, that he realizes the predicament he is in means he is quite lucid. He simply has new personalities in his head, which can be unleashed if he uses magic, which makes it seem to me that they are not 'good' people.Hence my use of the word 'nearly' - his hold on reality is tenuous, at best. ;) Unless you think having 'voices in your head' is normal, in which case you should have that checked. :P warlocks tied to a mysterious primordial entity rule VaasaThanks for that. Where you say "Orcs - Have their own Kingdom, become more 'civilized'", where was this info from? Do you know where this Kingdom is? Mountain Orcs or Grey Orcs?Diffan is 100% accurate - also see my "Obould's Horde" entry under organizations.
Dark Wizard 03-09-08, 04:55 PM	warlocks tied to a mysterious primordial entity rule Vaasa I remember that now, Rich Baker name-dropping that: Warlock Knights of Vaasa. Regarding Eilistraee's followers, perhaps a subcategory for Churches and Monk, Knightly, and Holy Orders. Alternatively just list it under organizations. There's also that new organization/cult devoted to using the Changelands and active spellplague to gain spellscars. I think they're called the Order of Blue Fire or something.
MarkusTay63 03-09-08, 05:41 PM	Updated. Good Catch. ;) I added a bunch more less well-known locales, along with some islands and other stuff I forgot.
Nimor 03-09-08, 05:47 PM	Hey, sorry to bother but, can anyone tell me where is the source that says that Khelben dies? Apart from the GHotR..
yarethon 03-09-08, 05:59 PM	Markus, Richard Baker on the Uthgardt barbarians : I believe they're still around. I suspect they may be roaming farther west than before; Luruar might be a little too settled for their tastes. But I don't think we've gone into many specifics there.
MarkusTay63 03-09-08, 05:59 PM	Hey, sorry to bother but, can anyone tell me where is the source that says that Khelben dies? Apart from the GHotR..The novel Blackstaff It also contains info regarding the Sharn and the High Moor. Markus, Richard Baker on the Uthgardt barbarians <snip>Thanks... updated.
yarethon 03-09-08, 06:03 PM	Cerulean - is the new 'Blue' HAHAHahhahahahaha
MarkusTay63 03-09-08, 06:12 PM	I didn't make that up BTW... that was a direct quote from designer Brian James. :D
buzzard 03-09-08, 06:52 PM	About Selūne (the deity), if I recall correctly, she isn't "joining" or "merging" with Sehanine Moonbow, they were supposed to be one and the same since always in 4th edition (AKA retcon).
Alediran 03-09-08, 07:08 PM	About Selūne (the deity), if I recall correctly, she isn't "joining" or "merging" with Sehanine Moonbow, they were supposed to be one and the same since always in 4th edition (AKA retcon). Which breaks continuity in a bad way, Sehanine and Selūne are completely different entities, the moon is only one aspect of Sehanine, she is much more than that.
Lord Karsus 03-09-08, 07:58 PM	Then you see wrong. -I see wrong!? Hey, man, you're the one who wrote up top, and I'll just use this one example, "Unknown, but something 'big' is definately happening here." (Evermeet). Looks like speculation to me. :P Hence my use of the word 'nearly' - his hold on reality is tenuous, at best. ;) Unless you think having 'voices in your head' is normal, in which case you should have that checked. :P -In a world where random landmasses float freely in the sky, Werewolves transform under the light of the full moon, and Wizards can snap their fingers and cause explosions, and you are saying that hearing a few voices in your head isn't normal!? :P
johnkretzer 03-10-08, 12:16 AM	Averiel: deemed unimportant and won't recieve attention Lythari: See above Sea Elves: See above Though later they might get something. the Deities -30 to 20: Deemed unimportant by the powers that be.
MarkusTay63 03-10-08, 01:10 AM	About Selūne (the deity), if I recall correctly, she isn't "joining" or "merging" with Sehanine Moonbow, they were supposed to be one and the same since always in 4th edition (AKA retcon).I realize that was worded poorly, so I changed it - thanks -I see wrong!? Hey, man, you're the one who wrote up top, and I'll just use this one example, "Unknown, but something 'big' is definately happening here." (Evermeet). Looks like speculation to me. :P And 'something big' is... I can't find the exact quote, but when asked directly about it, the response was "Evermeet's still around... but I can't say anything more" In EVERY case where something was left unscathed, the wording was more to the effect "Waterdeep is just fine", or "The Swordcoast was relatively Untouched". Are you so worried about the Elven homeland so much that you deny the evidence? If nothing major was happening, then why did Rich(?) pull the old "NDA" excuse from up his sleeve? You do NOT 'NDA' nothing. :P On the other hand, it could be as simple as the Gold and Silver Elves all becoming Eladrin, which in-and-of-itself is "something big". :D --In a world where random landmasses float freely in the sky, Werewolves transform under the light of the full moon, and Wizards can snap their fingers and cause explosions, and you are saying that hearing a few voices in your head isn't normal!? :PSplitting hairs, are we? On Earth, Elminster WOULD be diagnosed legally insane. BECAUSE he lives on a magical world, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and used the word 'nearly'. The article said that he was barely holding his s__t together, in not so many words. You're lucky I love you. ;)
Lord Karsus 03-10-08, 09:50 AM	And 'something big' is... I can't find the exact quote, but when asked directly about it, the response was "Evermeet's still around... but I can't say anything more" In EVERY case where something was left unscathed, the wording was more to the effect "Waterdeep is just fine", or "The Swordcoast was relatively Untouched". Are you so worried about the Elven homeland so much that you deny the evidence? If nothing major was happening, then why did Rich(?) pull the old "NDA" excuse from up his sleeve? You do NOT 'NDA' nothing. :P -All of that is speculation! No speculation! :P -And, Ed has plenty of "nothing stuff", in so much as it seems minor plotlines, or minor detials, NDAed. On the other hand, it could be as simple as the Gold and Silver Elves all becoming Eladrin, which in-and-of-itself is "something big". :D -See. On Earth, Elminster WOULD be diagnosed legally insane. BECAUSE he lives on a magical world, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and used the word 'nearly'. The article said that he was barely holding his s__t together, in not so many words. -I fail to see how: Elminster is "afraid to use his magic now, not only because of the effects of the Spell Plague, but also because he's absorbed the memories of a number of powerful beings who tend to take over his mind when he attempts to use magic." -Equates to Elminster being nearly insane, mostly insane, or fully insane (in so much as he is more insane than he already is, anyway). You're lucky I love you. ;) -Shucks. :embarrass
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-10-08, 03:39 PM	-I see a lot of speculation, for a thread that supposed to be 'Just the Facts'. ;) I was about to say just that. Nevertheless, I appreciate the intent.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-10-08, 03:45 PM	And 'something big' is... I can't find the exact quote, but when asked directly about it, the response was "Evermeet's still around... but I can't say anything more" In my opinion, that would mean Evermeet's status is "unknown, but it still exists as per Rich Baker", not "unknown, but something big is happening there!" That last bit is conjecture, no matter how sure if it you might be.:) It's just my opinion that statements like that have no place in a thread that promises zero conjecture.
dimonic 03-10-08, 09:25 PM	I am 100% I read on a blog that Zsass Tamm (sp ?)would still be around.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-11-08, 12:33 PM	I am 100% I read on a blog that Zsass Tamm (sp ?)would still be around. I recall reading that Szass Tam would be around, as well. However, we should probably get a source for that.
MarkusTay63 03-12-08, 12:08 PM	I am 100% I read on a blog that Zsass Tamm (sp ?)would still be around.Thank You - Updated.
18DELTA 03-12-08, 03:11 PM	-We know that the "Death Moon Orb" blows up in Tam's hand. So the "Death Moon Orb" wont be around in 4E. 18DELTA:)
MarkusTay63 03-12-08, 03:21 PM	Don't really want to include trivia-style entries Delta, but thank you for contributing. I just want all of the geographic locations covered, and a few of the 'household names' as well. Once the setting hits store shelves, we can begin picking apart the minutia. ;) Besides.. I think spoilers might be a bad thing to include, hence my not naming the city or details in the "High Moor" entry.
18DELTA 03-13-08, 01:01 AM	Don't really want to include trivia-style entries Delta, but thank you for contributing. -:thumbsup: Just trying to help.:) 18DELTA:)
MarkusTay63 03-20-08, 06:53 PM	* Updated * New Najara Info from Rich. ;)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-24-08, 12:15 PM	Dumb question: Where and what is "Najara" again?
MarkusTay63 03-24-08, 12:20 PM	Serpent Kingdom, mostly centered around the Serpent Hills. It is relatively unknown to non-scaley types, and even amongst its 'lower-tier' members (like Bullywugs and Lizardmen). It also includes some territory not directly connected to it (Gates). For a very good map of the Kingdom, check out the 3rd one HERE. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mw/20051220a)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-24-08, 12:21 PM	Serpent Kingdom, mostly centered around the Serpent Hills. It is relatively unknown to non-scaley types, and even amongst its 'lower-tier' members (like Bullywugs and Lizardmen). It also includes some territory not directly connected to it (Gates). For a very good map of the Kingdom, check out the 3rd one HERE. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mw/20051220a) Thank you for the map--I have Serpent Kingdoms, and I know what you're talking about.:)
MarkusTay63 03-27-08, 05:01 PM	Rather then continuuing to update things on several sites, I will keep all the updates over at CK - The CK 4e FR FAQ (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10792) I've added several new pieces of information, on Chondath, a new Genasi nation of Arkanūl, the Simbul... and more! :D
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-27-08, 07:09 PM	Rather then continuuing to update things on several sites, I will keep all the updates over at CK - The CK 4e FR FAQ (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10792) I've added several new pieces of information, on Chondath, a new Genasi nation of Arkanūl, the Simbul... and more! :D Where did you come by the information on the Simbul (although it isn't much)?
MarkusTay63 03-27-08, 07:12 PM	I got the following PM from a source at CK, and I'm trying re-confirm it right now. The POC for Aglarond has confirmed the Simbul is missing and a portal to the Feywild exists in the Yuirwood. Not sure what the 'POC for Aglarond' is, but it sounds official. :P
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-27-08, 07:17 PM	I got the following PM from a source at CK, and I'm trying re-confirm it right now. Not sure what the 'POC for Aglarond' is, but it sounds official. :P Hmmm...I can't figure it out either.:P Thanks for clarifying.
sblewett 03-27-08, 07:51 PM	POC: Point of Contact. Living Forgotten Realms. The southeast USA got Aglarond for their region.
MarkusTay63 03-27-08, 08:33 PM	Thank you for that, sblewett. I hope I didn't get anyone in trouble. :(
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-28-08, 11:46 AM	Thank you for that, sblewett. I hope I didn't get anyone in trouble. :( And who cares if you did? It's always great to get more information! Neh, I just felt like being flippant again.:P
MarkusTay63 03-28-08, 03:10 PM	Actually, my original 'informant' Bakra gave me the links to the stuff I added, and it was all from official sources. Lots of good stuff being 'leaked' by the Living Realms guys in charge of regions - I think I need to spend a day reading through all those EnWorld threads. :D Also, The Simbul is 'missing', as in "her people don't know what happened to her", so that could mean a LOT of things (including that she's dead). :( I modified the Genasi reference slightly over at CK - Shyr is where they came from (in Abeir), and Arkanūl is the new kingdom in Faerūn. Airspur is literally 'in the air' now - I guess someone saw the name and decided to run with it. :rolleyes:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-28-08, 04:10 PM	Actually, my original 'informant' Bakra gave me the links to the stuff I added, and it was all from official sources. So, put the links here FFS!:P Lots of good stuff being 'leaked' by the Living Realms guys in charge of regions - I think I need to spend a day reading through all those threads. :D See above. I modified the Genasi reference slightly over at CK - Shyr is where they came from (in Abeir), and Arkanūl is the new kingdom in Faerūn. Airspur is literally 'in the air' now - I guess someone saw the name and decided to run with it. :rolleyes: Indeed. :-/
MarkusTay63 03-28-08, 04:14 PM	Here's the one concerning Aglarond... I may need to adjust my Thay entry as well, it seems. Aglarond Enworld Thread (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=220467&page=2&pp=30)
Lord Karsus 03-29-08, 12:37 AM	-In the 'In The Divine' section, you failed to mention Ao, or rather, the lack thereof in 4e. -Damn, there was something I wanted to ask about, too...
18DELTA 03-29-08, 01:03 AM	-We get the Headless Zhent!!! (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1009938) Seriously WTF were they thinking with...this...stuff?:embarrass 18DELTA:rolleyes:
Daenaan 03-29-08, 01:23 AM	-We get the Headless Zhent!!! (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1009938) Seriously WTF were they thinking with...this...stuff? They were thinking "canon... we need more canon". :rolleyes: It's exactly what people should expect from 4E FR. Of course, one might hope that it was an accidental early release of something meant for April 1st, but given the recent FR countdown releases I'm not quite that optimistic.
MarkusTay63 03-29-08, 02:52 AM	-In the 'In The Divine' section, you failed to mention Ao, or rather, the lack thereof in 4e. -Damn, there was something I wanted to ask about, too...I have no idea what I'd put for an entry for that? On vacation? :confused: As for the 'Headless Zhent' stuff should I put an entry in under Dramatis Personae - Ichabod Crane - Last seen running for his life in the Dales ;) :D
Lord Karsus 03-29-08, 03:11 AM	I have no idea what I'd put for an entry for that? On vacation? :confused: -His role will be minimized, such that it is as if he is non-existent? As for the 'Headless Zhent' stufff should I put an entry in under Dramatis Personae - Ichabod Crane - Last seen running for his life in the Dales -Hopefully, the Headless Zhent isn't Dūdonahorz. I figured the two would be enemies, but...
MarkusTay63 03-29-08, 03:38 AM	But is the headless Zhent... excuse me... the Zhent Headless Horsemen undead? Last time I checked, the Zhents were pretty good at not using their heads. :P So I guess the Zhents will be some sort of militaristic culture w/mercenaries come 4e? And they'll still be brainless...... :rolleyes: HEY! Did you know I got an answer to a question by Ed, in UNDER 40 MINUTES?! I felt like I was blessed by the Pope or something. :dancin:
Lord Karsus 03-29-08, 03:41 AM	HEY! Did you know I got an answer to a question by Ed, in UNDER 40 MINUTES?! -Wow. Congrats. I'm still waiting for various, Non-NDA, innocuous questions.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-29-08, 05:07 PM	Here's the one concerning Aglarond... I may need to adjust my Thay entry as well, it seems. Aglarond Enworld Thread (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=220467&page=2&pp=30) Thanks. :)
fetfreak 03-30-08, 08:05 AM	ok.. I have some questions if you don't mind cause I DM in FR but I haven't updated it's history, well, since FR campaign settings came out. I'm not very keen on famous writers so I really lack off history knowledge here. So please if you have time just fill my questions with short answers. Divine Bane - goes (hard) core? Cyric - Imprisoned - by who? Helm - What has he done to Tymora to get him self killed by Tyr? If Helm killed her, why? Ilmater - What has happen to him? Went insane? Why? did anything happen to Silvanus? and other stuff Red wizards have changed, how? and Giants - become more 'Elemental' - could you explain? Hope it's not a bother. I really want to know.. thanx.
Stigger 03-30-08, 09:33 AM	Most of those are resolved quickly and easily by taking a quick look at the last few pages of the A Grand History of the Realms (the published one, not the .pdf). Bane is being adopted into the generic 'core' pantheon. Cyric was imprisoned by a group of deities for killing Mystra in her own realm. Helm was killed by Tyr in a duel over a woman, jealousy thing going on there. Ilmatar got ****** at Tyr for killing Helm, said screw it, and moved in with Sune. Nothing on Silvanus that I'm aware of, although we probably find out that he's Rillifane and a few other deities in disguise at some point. Red Wizards... think Thay is in the midst of a civil war that will probably leave them pretty screwed post Spellplague. No clue on the Giant thing.
Ifthir 03-30-08, 10:54 AM	There is nothing like reading about how a world that took 20+ years to build can get scuttled by the guns of profitability in a few short months.
Stigger 03-30-08, 11:19 AM	Rot was setting in at the beginning of 3e I thought... quietly, but the poorly executed regurgitation of 2e lore in a shiny new 3e cover should have been our first clue upon reflection...
fetfreak 03-30-08, 11:21 AM	Well I sort of agree but some things must change.. it's a natural process. It is understandable that gods are ploting against each other, but killing each other because of jeluosy and a paladin/monk god saying screw it.. well thats just stupid.
dimonic 03-30-08, 11:33 AM	There is nothing like reading about how a world that took 20+ years to build can get scuttled by the guns of profitability in a few short months. But one can just as easily say: There is nothing like reading about how a world that has 20+ years of accumulated cruft grafted on to it with little thought for consistency or game play can get rebuilt by the people who kept D&D alive in just a few short months.:) Same facts, opposite opinion.
MarkusTay63 03-30-08, 03:19 PM	Maybe we like 'cruft'. :D And it was WotC that brought D&D back from the brink - Hasbro has since BOUGHT WotC so those supposed 'saviours' you mention are no longer in charge, just a big, hungry corporation. The Company that has brought us Mr. Potato Head and Transformers... See the connection? ;)
dimonic 03-30-08, 07:19 PM	Maybe we like 'cruft'. :D Maybe. And it was WotC that brought D&D back from the brink - Hasbro has since BOUGHT WotC so those supposed 'saviours' you mention are no longer in charge, just a big, hungry corporation. I do know that Hasbro consider WotC important enough to allow them to do a lot of their own stuff under their own name. I don't know how much influence the Hasbro corporate culture has on WotC. The Company that has brought us Mr. Potato Head and Transformers... Heh, I like Mr. Potato head. And Transformers. I even enjoyed the movie (although I am obviously not a big enough fan to notice the egregious breaches of canon some of my friends complained bitterly about which you are probably hinting at). As an aside, the job of any corporation is to make profit for its shareholders. Even a mom and pop company tries to make money for mom and pop. They need to eat - and therefore can get hungry. It is not the need for profit or the size of company you should question. It is the levels of quality and customer service along with value for money you should be examining.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-30-08, 08:27 PM	Cyric was imprisoned by a group of deities for killing Mystra in her own realm. And specifically, those deities were Lathander, Tyr, and (my favorite!) Sune.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-30-08, 08:29 PM	It is the levels of quality and customer service along with value for money you should be examining. That's exactly what a lot of people, myself included, have been doing. I don't agree that the setting has accumulated 20 years of cruft (what does that mean, exactly?--all lore from 20 years past has been "cruft"?).
MarkusTay63 03-30-08, 11:12 PM	Tethyr and Amn updated as per new info by RB, as well as the Great Tree and Mage Sigils entries. You can see the updates Here. (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10792) Heh, I like Mr. Potato head. And Transformers. I even enjoyed the movie (although I am obviously not a big enough fan to notice the egregious breaches of canon some of my friends complained bitterly about which you are probably hinting at).I like Mr. Potato Head as well, but that wasn't my point. The point was with Mr. potato head, you can just takes all sorts of parts and stick them anywhere, even if they don't belong there, and Transformers - they are the very definition of taking something and changing it into something else entirely (like FR). And as far as Transformers 'canon' goes, you can tell me anything and I wouldn't know if it were true or not. I hate giant robots, I hate things that change into other things (godamn butterflies!), and I never saw the Transformers movie (even though it is sitting in the next room, because I bought it for my kids). Now if you want me to tell you everything that was wrong with the Enterprise TV series, I could go on for hours. :P
BadCatMan 03-30-08, 11:14 PM	What is 'cruft' and why do people claim it's a bad thing?
MarkusTay63 03-30-08, 11:24 PM	I have no idea, but if thats what 1e/2e FR was full of, then call me a cruft-fan! :D
Daenaan 03-30-08, 11:37 PM	Cruft: See Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruft) definition.
MarkusTay63 03-30-08, 11:58 PM	Oh! :eek: I thought it was from Lara Cruft in Tumb Raider. :P
Lord Karsus 03-31-08, 12:27 AM	...and I never saw the Transformers movie (even though it is sitting in the next room, because I bought it for my kids). -Should I insert an "awesome!" joke here? What is 'cruft' and why do people claim it's a bad thing? -I believe it is a concept similar to barnacles. Basically, as I know dimonic, he is saying that the years and years of material that the Forgotten Realms have "accumulated" over the years is a bad thing for the setting, overall.
BadCatMan 03-31-08, 01:22 AM	Thanks for enlightenment. That's an entirely subjective use of the term. One man's 'cruft' is another man's treasure. Going back to the Cruft Laboratory origin (every lab is like that), every piece of that junk was there for a reason, because it had a use. Besides, if your house is dirty, do you demolish it and build a new one? No, you give it a good vacuum.
Lord Karsus 03-31-08, 01:24 AM	Besides, if your house is dirty, do you demolish it and build a new one? No, you give it a good vacuum. -That's actually a very good analogy for what is going to happen: You can dust, but that simply throws the dust in the air. Eventually, it resettles once again, and you have to dust all over again.
Zanan 03-31-08, 03:40 PM	Regarding Lolth becoming a Greater Power. Do you refer to that Dragon article (be Shemeska ... who did not speak of the Realms specifically) or has there been any new developement?
MarkusTay63 03-31-08, 05:07 PM	From various sources, but mostly by the ending of WotSQ. I believe Rich or someone directly mentions LoLth being a greater power in 4e FR as well. Also, he has mentioned that whatever is true in Core will be true for FR, so if Lolth is a greater Power in one, the she MUST be a Greater Power in the other. The Divine Domains may change from setting to setting, but any gods they have in common WILL be exactly the same for each world (so sayeth Rich).
Lord Karsus 03-31-08, 08:33 PM	From various sources, but mostly by the ending of WotSQ. I believe Rich or someone directly mentions LoLth being a greater. -I am 99.9% sure that Paul confirmed that Lolth became a greater goddess at the end of Resurrection, as she was able to create her own plane out of the Demonweb Pits, rather than being in the Abyss.
Ifthir 03-31-08, 08:57 PM	But one can just as easily say: There is nothing like reading about how a world that has 20+ years of accumulated cruft grafted on to it with little thought for consistency or game play can get rebuilt by the people who kept D&D alive in just a few short months.:) Same facts, opposite opinion. Indeed, all a matter of perspective. Might I inquire as to what guides your optimism about the upcoming change? I think the reason for my pessimism mirrors that of most others, yet the reason for your optimism puzzles me. Are you predicting 4E to be free of the cruft that you believe 3E had aplenty? Do you believe 4E will be chock full of the consistency that you believe 3E both lacked? Addendum: It has been 8 years since the last 'update', not 20. Please be accurate with the facts that you triumphantly champion in your example. :nonono:
MarkusTay63 04-01-08, 01:04 AM	It just seems to me that most of the people that are happy with FR's changes are people who didn't play FR... and probably still won't. I'm not saying all of them, but a fair percentage. Its the 'Haters' that are loving all of this. :(
Lord Karsus 04-01-08, 02:53 AM	It just seems to me that most of the people that are happy with FRs changes are people who didn't play FR... and probably still won't. -That is very true. Many people who I have been debating over the months in the 4e Forgotten Realms boards have stated that they didn't like the Forgotten Realms, as they were, and aren't sure if they are going to dip back into them come 4e. I'd say about 25%-30% or so, to give a rough estimate.
Zanan 04-01-08, 04:26 AM	I know of what Paul said, and I have read the Dragon article. I also read what Drow of the Underdark (after Paul but before the Dragon article) said on the matter, she still was Intermediate in there, methinks. I just wanted to know whether there are new "facts", which apparently there are not.
Lord Karsus 04-01-08, 04:29 AM	I know of what Paul said, and I have read the Dragon article. I also read what Drow of the Underdark (after Paul but before the Dragon article) said on the matter, she still was Intermediate in there, methinks. I just wanted to know whether there are new "facts", which apparently there are not. -Core Lolth =/= Forgotten Realms Lolth (for now, until the 4e canon takes precident). You should know that. You're the big promonent of seperate cosmologies having seperate deities, and all that. -That said, Paul Kemp said in an official capacity as a represenative of the Forgotten Realms that Lolth is a Greater Deity.
Zanan 04-01-08, 11:56 AM	-Core Lolth =/= Forgotten Realms Lolth (for now, until the 4e canon takes precident). You should know that. You're the big promonent of seperate cosmologies having seperate deities, and all that. -That said, Paul Kemp said in an official capacity as a represenative of the Forgotten Realms that Lolth is a Greater Deity. Paul said that on his board, which I read, of course. His words were more like: "I was under the impression that ..." ;) See, I have have no argument with you here. I know what is in the Dragon, Paul's article, and DotUD. Only the former and the latter are canonic (thanks Shem!) and I have no problem accepting Paul's assumption for fact.
Lord Karsus 04-01-08, 02:59 PM	Paul said that on his board, which I read, of course. His words were more like: "I was under the impression that ..." ;) See, I have have no argument with you here. I know what is in the Dragon, Paul's article, and DotUD. Only the former and the latter are canonic (thanks Shem!) and I have no problem accepting Paul's assumption for fact. -So why say there are no "facts", then.
MarkusTay63 04-01-08, 11:11 PM	Because people on these boards like to argue even when they agree with each other? :confused: ;) :P
Lord Karsus 04-02-08, 12:06 AM	Because people on these boards like to argue even when they agree with each other? :confused: ;) :P -Only you. :cool:
Zanan 04-02-08, 04:11 AM	-So why say there are no "facts", then. -> Paul speaks for himself, not WotC -> DotUD says Intermediate Deity -> Dragon article is vague and not FR specific Hence, the "facts" that Lolth is a Greater Power in 4E as claimed in the opening article are not exactly "facts", are they? And MT is right, there is no need to discuss this for discussion's sake. I take it that there is no new information on her status since the above and that's fine by me.
Lord Karsus 04-02-08, 04:15 AM	-> -> DotUD says Intermediate Deity -Drow of the Underdark is a Core product, as is not applicable to the Forgotten Realms. -> -> Dragon article is vague and not FR specific -And, even if it was more specific, Core products aren't applicable to the Forgotten Realms. -> Hence, the "facts" that Lolth is a Greater Power in 4E as claimed in the opening article are not exactly "facts", are they? -Is not circumstantial evidence completely admissable in court, for establishing fact and fiction?
Zanan 04-02-08, 08:57 AM	-Drow of the Underdark is a Core product, as is not applicable to the Forgotten Realms. Hear Hear! I assume you know that in written FR lore, Demihuman Deities and Faiths & Pantheons, Lolth is an intermediate power / goddess? -And, even if it was more specific, Core products aren't applicable to the Forgotten Realms. Unless the article itself is about the Realms and mentiones them, that is? Fair enough (and Shem already said so), as the article only says that in some worlds she went silent to "emerge stronger than ever". You wonder, Realms aside, which D&D worlds that might have been, of course. (As in: I wouldn't disregard the best bet when it comes to validate the initial claim.) -Is not circumstantial evidence completely admissable in court, for establishing fact and fiction? Matter of factly, if you discredit DotUD and the Dragon as not FR lore, we are left with an assumption by an author* on his own website with no back-up from anyone who HAS a say in the matter? As in: if I go by your reasoning, there is next to no proof that she actually has climbed in rank at all. *Paul, if you read this: Your word is lore for me! When it comes to what is official lore though, things are different.
Lord Karsus 04-02-08, 11:16 AM	Hear Hear! I assume you know that in written FR lore, Demihuman Deities and Faiths & Pantheons, Lolth is an intermediate power / goddess? -Yes, and said sourcebooks are dated, as much has happened, concerning Lolth, since the publishing of both. By that logic, no deities have changed since 2001(?) when Faiths and Pantheons was published. Unless the article itself is about the Realms and mentiones them, that is? Fair enough (and Shem already said so), as the article only says that in some worlds she went silent to "emerge stronger than ever". You wonder, Realms aside, which D&D worlds that might have been, of course. (As in: I wouldn't disregard the best bet when it comes to validate the initial claim.) -Of course it doesn't apply, unless it is a specific Forgotten Realms product. Since when have Core articles/books been applicable to the Forgotten Realms, without specific 'In the Realms' sidebars? Matter of factly, if you discredit DotUD and the Dragon as not FR lore, we are left with an assumption by an author* on his own website with no back-up from anyone who HAS a say in the matter? As in: if I go by your reasoning, there is next to no proof that she actually has climbed in rank at all. -Nevermind...:nonono:
MarkusTay63 04-02-08, 12:38 PM	And yet you both agree that her ascension to higher status is most likely the case. :confused: The reason why it is listed thusly in MY FAQ is that Rich Baker has specifically stated that in 4e, ONLY higher powers will have there own godly domains. At the end of WotSQ, Lolth has managed to seperate her Realm from the Abyss - creating HER OWN SEPERATE DOMAIN! So either Lolth made nice and moved in with Sune or Bane or Corellon(!), or she rose to sufficient power to get her own domain, which that series was clearly meant to convey. Remember, the WotSQ was written with 4e in mind, and therefore everything that happened in it was a 'deux ex machina' to get Lolth to the level they needed her at in 4e (they certainly couldn't have her staying in the Abyss, which has just combined with at least four other planes to form the Maelstrom). Personally, I think it would have been kinda cool to leave Lolth in the Abyss, and lump her into the Elemental Evils - after all, thats where she got her start, back in that temple in Greyhawk. ;) P.S. - If they do combine her with Shar, which may or may not happen (I don't even want to take a guess at THAT one), I don't know how they'll handle the naming of the Godly Domain. Saying two evil, scheming female deities are really one and the same isn't that far of a stretch, but trying to merge Lolth's 'Spider Flavor' into Shar would by mucho weird. :uh-huh:
Lord Karsus 04-02-08, 12:54 PM	Remember, the WotSQ was written with 4e in mind, and therefore everything that happened in it was a 'deux ex machina' to get Lolth to the level they needed her at in 4e... -While the entire series was simply a 'deus ex machina' to get Lolth to have complete control of the Demonweb Pits, make it it's own realm, make her a greater goddess, and all of that, it was not written with 4e in mind. When a novel series is written, the general idea is prepared ahead of time. Dissolution was published in August 2003. As per the designers, developmental and theoretical design work for 4e did not begin until 2005. That's not to say that the events in the series aren't going to be included in 4e, but the novels weren't written specifically to act as the catalyst to cause these changes for 4e. Saying two evil, scheming female deities are really one and the same isn't that far of a stretch, but trying to merge Lolth's 'Spider Flavor' into Shar would by mucho weird. :uh-huh: -Not to even mention Lolth's rather detailed history with Shar's rather detailed history...
MarkusTay63 04-02-08, 01:11 PM	-but the novels weren't written specifically to act as the catalyst to cause these changes for 4e.Maybe not at the beginning, but somewhere along the way it happened. Also, they were already working on some changes to get the rules to merge better between core and FR, before they even decided for sure to start 4e. They realized that Lolth's age, 'multi-planer' role, and level of power over her subjects all pointed to her being a greater power for quite sometime, so we probably would have seen that weather they gave us the 4e rules or not. In fact, I wouldn't be suprised if they decided to change Lolth and her domain, and then when they got the idea for a new edition, the Lolth stuff gave them inspiration to wipe the whole pantheon clean. Either way, I'm sure one idea fed the other.
Lord Karsus 04-02-08, 01:37 PM	Maybe not at the beginning, but somewhere along the way it happened. -It'd only make sense between Extinction and/or Annihilation, the former, which was published early 2005, and the latter, which was published late 2005. This is Book IV and Book V. That said, again, the manuscript for the overarching goal of the plotline would have been established from before Book I.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-02-08, 03:03 PM	Unless the authors just made stuff up as they went along.:P I just felt like saying that!
Lord Karsus 04-02-08, 03:11 PM	Unless the authors just made stuff up as they went along.:P -Well, isn't that what a book is, to begin with?
MarkusTay63 04-02-08, 03:17 PM	No, I would agree with LK here, and say that is what they set out to do. What I proposed above is that they had some changes in mind for the pantheons and setting, and then when they decided to create a new edition, it gave them a 'free pass' to do all of the things they were leading up to slowly anyway. The problem that I see is that they went a way too far, and all of the hundreds of 'little things' each of the designers were pushing for (Shadowcrap, Aberrations, etc) ALL made it in. It was like letting a bunch of children loose in a candy store, and telling them "Make sure you only take what you really want". Yeah... right... ;)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-02-08, 03:22 PM	-Well, isn't that what a book is, to begin with? *laughs* Yeah. That comment was sorta tongue-in-cheek.:)
Zanan 04-03-08, 04:13 AM	So we essentially agree that everyone believes that Lolth has become a Greater Deity within Realmspace without having it spelled out in a lorebook so far. (LK ... keep in mind that Paul only wrote in his novel that she was something greater than before, which does not mean that she actually climbed to greater status.) Thus, the entry article simply assumes "the fact". So far, the only novel series that I know of that has been written with 4E in mind is The Haunted Lands - according to Richard Lee Byers. Lady Penitent may be a close second and given the events in The Empyrean Odyssee (i.e. a Cyricist being led into the Realms of Tyr, Ilmater et al), this series might eventually lead to the fall of Mystra.
Lord Karsus 04-03-08, 12:30 PM	So far, the only novel series that I know of that has been written with 4E in mind is The Haunted Lands - according to Richard Lee Byers. -Any novel that was written in or after 2005 was possibly written with the 4e changes in mind, since the development of 4e began in 2005.
Stigger 04-03-08, 07:06 PM	Think it might be more accurate to say 'with the transition to 4e in mind' rather than just 'with 4e in mind'... since presumably the authors would at least get some level of idea of where 4e was going to go.
Lord Karsus 04-03-08, 11:20 PM	Think it might be more accurate to say 'with the transition to 4e in mind' rather than just 'with 4e in mind'... since presumably the authors would at least get some level of idea of where 4e was going to go. -4e transition, 4e changes...It's all synonymous.
Stigger 04-04-08, 06:10 AM	Not really... but if it makes you feel better to ignore semantics, I'm good with that. :D
Lord Karsus 04-04-08, 06:27 AM	-Well, how are they different then, '4e changes', and '4e transition'? Applying to the Forgotten Realms.
Stigger 04-04-08, 06:44 AM	4e Changes are what's going to happen come 4e. 4e Transition is how they choose to explain and build up to those actual changes from 3.5e... as in AGHotR was largely transitional as far as those last few pages were concerned. The 4e FRCS will be the actual change. Same should play out in any stories and articles that we see detailing the alterations to the 4e Realms that are released prior to 4e's release. Not that they've done a particularly great job of transitioning us... probably one of the least impressive efforts I can recall really, but there it is nonetheless.
Lord Karsus 04-04-08, 06:48 AM	-Exactly. It's all, in effect, synonymous! :P
Stigger 04-04-08, 06:54 AM	If you feel better calling it that, feel free. :P
Mean Eyed Cat 04-11-08, 09:19 PM	New information about Thay from ENWorld (http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=4158413&postcount=6): Red Wizards are led by Zsass (sp? that lich guy). They're scarier and so is Thay. The enclave Red Wizards are unwelcome expatriates who can't return home. The podcast (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4pod/20080411e22) goes into more detail.
Lord Karsus 04-12-08, 06:29 AM	New information about Thay from ENWorld (http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=4158413&postcount=6): The podcast (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4pod/20080411e22) goes into more detail. -So, the massive undertaking that Thay did to become a nation based on not only warfare, but commerce, is being thrown out the window? Riiight...:rolleyes:
MarkusTay63 04-12-08, 10:17 AM	Right. They want to make Thay more like it was in the original, and get rid of all the 'silliness' created in 3e. By the guys who are bringing you even more silliness in 4e.... :rolleyes:
Lord Karsus 04-12-08, 10:24 AM	They want to make Thay more like it was in the original, and get rid of all the 'silliness' created in 3e. -You mean, the stuff that they, by and large, created? Hmm...You know, I don't remember the original Thay having floating motes, and all of that stuff.
MarkusTay63 04-12-08, 10:44 AM	The original Thay didn't, and I'm pretty sure the new one doesn't either. Thay has become FR's 'Mordor', and Szass Tam it's 'Dark Lord'. Ed's original made it more like Stygia from the Conan stories, but obviously they can't do that, so they opted for a cross between that and LotR. I wonder if Szass is going to create a bunch of rings to control Men, Dwarves, and Elves? :bored: "In the Land of Thaydor, where the Shadows lie..."
Lord Karsus 04-12-08, 10:54 AM	The original Thay didn't, and I'm pretty sure the new one doesn't either. -I seem to recall reading in the Countdown to the Realms articles that the Thaymount is now floating in the air.
Stigger 04-12-08, 11:01 AM	Oh dear gods... I'd go look, but I really don't want to know...
MarkusTay63 04-12-08, 11:15 AM	I have updated the FAQ over at CK (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10792&whichpage=1) again, to include the new info about Szass Tam, the Red Wizards, and Thayan Enclaves.
Iakhovas 04-12-08, 11:19 AM	Thaymount isn't floating. During the Spellplague the escarpment was pushed up thousands of feet. -I seem to recall reading in the Countdown to the Realms articles that the Thaymount is now floating in the air.
Lord Karsus 04-12-08, 11:20 AM	I have updated the FAQ over at CK (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10792&whichpage=1) again, to include the new info about Szass Tam, the Red Wizards, and Thayan Enclaves. -You stopped updating the one here? Thaymount isn't floating. During the Spellplague the escarpment was pushed up thousands of feet. -Ah. Right.
MarkusTay63 04-12-08, 11:32 AM	-You stopped updating the one hereYes, quite some time ago (I made a post here about it). I'll probably update this one too, eventually. I was just waiting for another Countdown article. I would do both, but unfortunately the forum format is very different, and the posts get screwed up a little bit when I Copy & Paste. Like the Kara-Tur stuff did over at The Realms Vault (http://www.forgottenrealmsvault.com/), before Alediran so graciously took the time to fix it.
Lord Karsus 04-12-08, 11:34 AM	Yes, quite some time ago (I made a post here about it). -I didn't even realize.
MarkusTay63 04-12-08, 12:58 PM	Thaymount isn't floating. During the Spellplague the escarpment was pushed up thousands of feet.Missed this the first time - I went back and re-read all three of the countdown articles just to find it. LK was indeed misinformed... Thanks Karsus... that was about as painful as root canal. :rolleyes: I did find one thing I didn't have in my FAQ (the Underchasm), so I forgive you. ;) So... does a Drow Priestess who is experiencing Lolth's 'rapture' have "Multiple Underchasms"? :P
Daenaan 04-12-08, 02:07 PM	Thaymount isn't floating. During the Spellplague the escarpment was pushed up thousands of feet. Why? Just so DMs could say "hey guys, the Thaymount escarpment is thousands of feet high!"? :rolleyes:
MarkusTay63 04-12-08, 02:22 PM	To make it more LotRs 'Mount Doom'. Assume Szass Tam will have his own little Barad-dūr now. :bored: I'm thinking he has evolved his Dread Warrior ritual and he now has a group of Nine Undead Knights who ride around on Wyverns (or Drakenbeasts). The leader of that group will probably be Zenghyi, the Witch King. :rolleyes:
Lord Karsus 04-12-08, 02:53 PM	Why? -Why that was done was what I was wondering when I thought that it was floating in the sky. Instead, it's simply thousands of feet high. In effect, it's the same thing, except it's connected to the ground. I'm still wondering why. -Are the Wu-Pi-Te-Shar Mountains still the tallest, now?
Daenaan 04-12-08, 05:07 PM	To make it more LotRs 'Mount Doom'. Assume Szass Tam will have his own little Barad-dūr now. :bored: I'm thinking he has evolved his Dread Warrior ritual and he now has a group of Nine Undead Knights who ride around on Wyverns (or Drakenbeasts). The leader of that group will probably be Zenghyi, the Witch King. :rolleyes: Thing is, if I wanted to play in LotR's middle earth, I would buy that supplement from Iron Crown... or whatever that company is, these days. -Why that was done was what I was wondering when I thought that it was floating in the sky. Instead, it's simply thousands of feet high. In effect, it's the same thing, except it's connected to the ground. I'm still wondering why. -Are the Wu-Pi-Te-Shar Mountains still the tallest, now? Honestly, it just doesn't make sense. It reminds me of how my dad "geeks up" a nice looking car with glue-on clocks and things that hang from the mirror... just because it's there, and cheap to do.
Lord Karsus 04-12-08, 05:17 PM	Honestly, it just doesn't make sense. It reminds me of how my dad "geeks up" a nice looking car with glue-on clocks and things that hang from the mirror... just because it's there, and cheap to do. -Things that hang from the mirror, like air fresheners, a flag, or even fuzzy dice, I can understand. But, glue-on clocks? Never heard of that before...
Stigger 04-12-08, 07:00 PM	Can't say I've ever come across that one either...
Daenaan 04-12-08, 11:29 PM	-Things that hang from the mirror, like air fresheners, a flag, or even fuzzy dice, I can understand. But, glue-on clocks? Never heard of that before... Really cheap stores like Walmart will often sell small digital clocks for under $1, and they're about the size of a digital watch without the armband. They'll have sticky paper on the back, and the idea is to stick the clock on an area that will be useful. In this case, my dad has the strange habit of putting them on car dashboards. Looks really awful. He also buys temporary stickers of various things, and they'll make their way to his car or truck.
Lord Karsus 04-12-08, 11:55 PM	-Well, as long as they are under $1...
Daenaan 04-13-08, 01:18 AM	-Well, as long as they are under $1... No! Don't do it! Don't succumb to tacky glue-on things! :eek:
Lord Karsus 04-13-08, 02:11 AM	No! Don't do it! Don't succumb to tacky glue-on things! :eek: -I won't, don't worry. But, at least he's not wasting a lot of money.
Zanan 04-13-08, 04:53 AM	To make it more LotRs 'Mount Doom'. Assume Szass Tam will have his own little Barad-dūr now. :bored: I'm thinking he has evolved his Dread Warrior ritual and he now has a group of Nine Undead Knights who ride around on Wyverns (or Drakenbeasts). The leader of that group will probably be Zenghyi, the Witch King. :rolleyes: No, that whole scenario has been within Realmspace since Vaasa first made it onto the FR maps. Just take your pick from: Castle Perilous, orc hordes, Bloodstone Pass et al and link it to Mount Doom, The Black Gate, orc hordes in the correct order. And as is intimated in the previews, Vaasa will look very much the same in 4E, being some sort of "home" for all the warlocks of the Realms.
MarkusTay63 04-13-08, 10:01 AM	Right. And Mordor and Sauron had the Witch King and Angmar - Angmar was NOT part of Mordor, but it was some distance to the NE... just like Vaasa is to Thay. ;) @Daenaan - I ALWAYS had one of those little plastic clocks in my vehicles, along with that compass thingy that looked like a spinning-globe. :P I least I didn't have a 'bobble-head' on my rear dash.
Lord Karsus 04-13-08, 10:37 AM	And Mordor and Sauron had the Witch King and Angmar - Angmar was NOT part of Mordor, but it was some distance to the NE... just like Vaasa is to Thay. ;) -Angmar is certainly a vassal realm of Mordor. Was, anyway. @Daenaan - I ALWAYS had one of those little plastic clocks in my vehicles, along with that compass thingy that looked like a spinning-globe. :P -Spinning compass globes are acceptable.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-13-08, 08:54 PM	-You mean, the stuff that they, by and large, created? I was thinking the same thing...a lot of the 4E designers were around during the 3E period, so how can they look down on the work that was done during that period?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-13-08, 09:00 PM	-Are the Wu-Pi-Te-Shar Mountains still the tallest, now? Nope, the Spellplague pressed those mountains down into a plateau, just like Thay used to be! Actually, disregard that--it was pure BS I made up on the spot.:P
Lord Karsus 04-14-08, 07:58 AM	I was thinking the same thing...a lot of the 4E designers were around during the 3E period, so how can they look down on the work that was done during that period? -The same way they can say how 3e was crap (I am paraphrasing), and that 4e is the future? Nope, the Spellplague pressed those mountains down into a plateau, just like Thay used to be! -Ah, I see. Actually, disregard that--it was pure BS I made up on the spot.:P -It's definitley possible, and fits with the design mantra. You know: "The fantastical and mythic locales we already have aren't apparently good enough."
dimonic 04-14-08, 09:31 AM	-The same way they can say how 3e was crap (I am paraphrasing), and that 4e is the future? Just the facts - they were saying that 3e was a great game, with many flaws that have become more and more obvious over the years. It is time for a new one. Do you honestly expect that they would keep releasing supplements to 3e forever?
MarkusTay63 04-14-08, 09:56 AM	No, but a decade would have been nice. Actually, I think 3e rules was done awhile ago - most of those last few splatbooks were badly done and unneccessary. However, if they did setting books correctly, independent of rules editions, then they could have continued producing those until the end of time. I don't need a 4th book on Thay, or a 3rd one on the South, but I could use a newer one on the Vilhon Reach, or one for the Island Kingdoms, or the East... They NEVER finish an edition's regional books - they just change editions and start reprinting the the old ones. Just for once, I'd like to see them take on something new, rather then copy & paste, or obliterate areas that were already finished. There's a whole planet they could have developed, and instead they decided to keep re-doing the same part of the same continent over and over. :(
Lord Karsus 04-14-08, 09:57 AM	Do you honestly expect that they would keep releasing supplements to 3e forever? -No, of course not. That said, I never said that they should. On a related note, I do not feel that it "is time for a new one", nor do I believe that such radical and heavy-handed changed needed to be made to the Campaign Setting in order to attract new players.
dimonic 04-14-08, 10:02 AM	-No, of course not. That said, I never said that they should. On a related note, I do not feel that it "is time for a new one", nor do I believe that such radical and heavy-handed changed needed to be made to the Campaign Setting in order to attract new players. Mind you, if it works, and thousands of new players buy into the new FR I guess that would prove their point wouldn't it?
Lord Karsus 04-14-08, 10:09 AM	Mind you, if it works, and thousands of new players buy into the new FR I guess that would prove their point wouldn't it? -No, not really. Just because something isn't produced anymore doesn't mean there was anything wrong with it. The SNES, a great video game system. It was replaced with the N64. Does that mean the SNES had horrible problems with it? No.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-14-08, 01:27 PM	Just the facts - they were saying that 3e was a great game, with many flaws that have become more and more obvious over the years. It is time for a new one. Do you honestly expect that they would keep releasing supplements to 3e forever? Come on, be fair--no one said that. Or even implied it. And that's coming from someone who is interested in the 4E rules.
dimonic 04-14-08, 03:17 PM	Come on, be fair--no one said that. Or even implied it. Have you not read Mike Mearl's list of reasons? Or any of the other designer blogs? Many many staff members have stated directly in their articles that 3e has structural flaws that have made running games more cumbersome than they ought to be, and that 4e is directly addressing many of these issue. And that's coming from someone who is interested in the 4E rules. Sure, does that somehow make me less objective than those who have pre-declared dislike without seeing more than 10% of what is to be released?
Lord Karsus 04-14-08, 03:23 PM	Have you not read Mike Mearl's list of reasons? Or any of the other designer blogs? Many many staff members have stated directly in their articles that 3e has structural flaws that have made running games more cumbersome than they ought to be, and that 4e is directly addressing many of these issue. -She's addressing the point that no one in the discussion brought that up, except for you.
dimonic 04-14-08, 03:28 PM	-She's addressing the point that no one in the discussion brought that up, except for you. I responded specifically to your post, which I quoted -The same way they can say how 3e was crap (I am paraphrasing), and that 4e is the future? And I went on to give the gist of what was really said (rather than a heavily slanted and inflammatory paraphrase). I can't really see as how "no one bought is up" when I actually quoted you. That is why I am still not sure what she meant by her post in the first place.
Lord Karsus 04-14-08, 03:37 PM	-Nobody brought up, or even implied that 3e materials should be forever produced until you mentioned it.
MarkusTay63 04-14-08, 03:42 PM	I agree that the current rules are unwieldy and cumbersome, yet hundreds of thousands of people have used them with success. Will simplifying them bring even more people to the game? I have no clue - thats the 'big gamble' they took. I too am looking forward to checking out the new rules, but not for FR. I just think that they should have left FR alone and created a new setting for it. All they did was pi$$ off the people who already liked the setting, with the goal in mind of attracting those people who had no interest in the setting. Like I said - big Gamble. I would also have liked another three years with 3e, with maybe a large '3.75' update, before they went whole-hog with another edition. I think if they tweaked the hell out of it, as Paizo and Monte Cook have done, it could have been vastly improved without forcing people to stop using their old books. And that from another person who still thinks the new rules sound awesome, despite his complete dislike for 4e FR. ;)
dimonic 04-14-08, 03:47 PM	-Nobody brought up, or even implied that 3e materials should be forever produced until you mentioned it. Actually, I thought it was fair to ask you if that is what you thought, given the nature of your post and the tenor of the thread you were discussing on. After all, we are discussing the introduction of 4e, and you just commented in a disparaging way about how you think the designers are suddenly being critical of 3e. I was on the one hand putting a slant more like they had put on it - in terms of suggesting that 3e has some flaws no matter how well meaning its designers were and how invested its players are, and on the other hand asking you what would you really expect? Nissan don't come out and say their old model is crap, so buy the new one, they say the new one is better in area a, area b, area c etc. However Nissan have the "advantage" in that they can actively compare with their competition, whereas WotC don't have serious competition other than themselves. Therefore, WotC find themselves in the delicate position of explaining the situation in such a way as to improve sales on the new product without alienating users of the old, and inevitably selling points of the new system will bring up some favourable or unfavourable comparisons with the old.
Lord Karsus 04-14-08, 03:53 PM	Actually, I thought it was fair to ask you if that is what you thought, given the nature of your post and the tenor of the thread you were discussing on. -I responded, then, but, still, none of my posts in this, or any thread, espouse the notion that 3e materials need to be published indefinitley, forever. 4e, as in the ruleset, I am mosty neutral about, leaning towards the side of negativity.
Rauric 04-14-08, 04:00 PM	-No, not really. Just because something isn't produced anymore doesn't mean there was anything wrong with it. The SNES, a great video game system. It was replaced with the N64. Does that mean the SNES had horrible problems with it? No. No it just meant that N64 had better graphics and brought a new dimension to gaming. It made video gaming more fun in the end.
Lord Karsus 04-14-08, 04:02 PM	No it just meant that N64 had better graphics and brought a new dimension to gaming. -Exactly. It made video gaming more fun in the end. -To some people. I, personally, thought the N64 was fairly sucky, because, while it had very good graphics for the time, it did not have very many titles that interested me. Same thing with the Gamecube. A powerful system, but very few games on it that actually interest me. The SNES, on the other hand, I still play to this day! :D -As we speak, my sister is playing Final Fantasy 3 for the first time. :)
Rauric 04-14-08, 04:04 PM	-Exactly. -To some people. I, personally, thought the N64 was fairly sucky, because, while it had very good graphics for the time, it did not have very many titles that interested me. Same thing with the Gamecube. A powerful system, but very few games on it that actually interest me. The SNES, on the other hand, I still play to this day! :D -As we speak, my sister is playing Final Fantasy 3 for the first time. :) Playstation was far better just because it had better games in the end, IMO. Mario did "open" things up when it comes to 3D gaming.
Lord Karsus 04-14-08, 04:15 PM	Playstation was far better just because it had better games in the end, IMO. -Yes, the Playstation is my favorite video game system. I still play that (via the backwards compatability of the PS2) as well. The SNES rules for nestalgia reasons.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-14-08, 08:48 PM	Have you not read Mike Mearl's list of reasons? Or any of the other designer blogs? Many many staff members have stated directly in their articles that 3e has structural flaws that have made running games more cumbersome than they ought to be, and that 4e is directly addressing many of these issue. Sure, does that somehow make me less objective than those who have pre-declared dislike without seeing more than 10% of what is to be released? Excuse me? I'm not even going to answer these questions, because you are doing the same thing you were before--taking a sharp, confrontational tone when it's absolutely unnecessary. I can't believe you are actually asking me if I've read the designer blogs, after I just told you I'm interested in the 4E rules. That's ridiculous. And of course, nothing you said has anything to do with my post (which I stand by, btw).
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-14-08, 08:54 PM	Actually, I thought it was fair to ask you if that is what you thought, given the nature of your post and the tenor of the thread you were discussing on. After all, we are discussing the introduction of 4e, and you just commented in a disparaging way about how you think the designers are suddenly being critical of 3e. Maybe next time you should assume good faith on the part of the people you are having a conversation with, and not ask loaded questions like "Did you really think 3E products were going to be produced forever?" That's rude and a strawman. It comes off as more an insult than a sincere question, and I think you're too smart not to realize that.
Alediran 04-14-08, 11:32 PM	I have three lists of finished Chrono Trigger saves in my SNES emulator, five for Secret of Mana 2, I'm in the 4th edition FR "Spellplague" of Final Fantasy 6 (when the whole world goes ka-boom), finishing Forest of Secrets in Super Mario World for the 10000 th time.
Dark Wizard 04-15-08, 12:36 AM	Most likely just by being D&D, the first setting updated to 4E, and with the core look of the new FRCG/FRPG covers 4E FR will be a big seller initially as far as setting books go. With their cross marketing through the novels, the 4E FR are a must if you want Drow and Swordmages, two of the initial big pushes in the novels department (one new (swordmages) and one old workhorse (drow), something for everyone). Still that does not disprove the point that smaller changes would achieved the same or greater results. WotC just didn't deem that direction worthwhile. A lack of attempt does not mean automatic failure. It also does not mean pre-4E FR was some terrible DM-killing, player-mangling monster of a setting. Unlike what every designer spouted in order to boost their 4E work.
dimonic 04-15-08, 12:17 PM	Maybe next time you should assume good faith on the part of the people you are having a conversation with, and not ask loaded questions like "Did you really think 3E products were going to be produced forever?" That's rude and a strawman. It comes off as more an insult than a sincere question, and I think you're too smart not to realize that. When I read innumerable posts from a particular poster extremely critical of changes to the FR 4e setting in particular, and the designers of both settings and rules in general, culminating in a somewhat crude exaggeration or characterisation for the sake of argumentative effect, I think it not unreasonable to ask whether the poster expected the game never to be changed. It may be a sharp question, but that is the nature of questions that explore the core of matters of opinion. If that is rude, then that is unfortunate. If LK found it unpardonable, then I am sure he can deal with me himself.
Stigger 04-15-08, 12:21 PM	Can't say I've ever gotten that impression of LK in regards to FR4e... lots of other people come off that way, but LK's usually one of the more reasonable about it. Oh well, to each their own I guess.
MarkusTay63 04-15-08, 12:41 PM	Are you referring to those people who say things like "Die 4th edition, DIE!!!"? :D Anyhow, looking over the last few posts, I remember why I no longer bother to update anything here. I'll just keep updating the one at CK, where threads stay on topic for more then a ½ page. :rolleyes: For awhile, things seemed to be getting quiet around here, but with the 4e rules right around the corner, I think people are starting to get edgy again. :( Can't wait to see what this place looks like come Aug, when all the Spellpuke Garbage hits the shelves. ;)
Lord Karsus 04-15-08, 12:48 PM	If LK found it unpardonable, then I am sure he can deal with me himself. -She has permission to speak for me, in my absence. Anyhow, looking over the last few posts, I remember why I no longer bother to update anything here. I'll just keep updating the one at CK, where threads stay on topic for more then a ½ page. :rolleyes: -Hey, you are one of the prime offenders...
MarkusTay63 04-15-08, 01:16 PM	I NEVER go off topic. :P And besides, I specifically said earlier that MY threads are off limits. I don't care about other peoples threads. :D <just kidding> :hides:
Lord Karsus 04-15-08, 01:28 PM	And bsides, I specifically said earlier that MY threads are off limits. I don't care about other peoples threads. :D -Oh, oh, I see...
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-15-08, 02:01 PM	-She has permission to speak for me, in my absence. Well, thank you.:)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-15-08, 02:02 PM	It may be a sharp question, but that is the nature of questions that explore the core of matters of opinion. If that is rude, then that is unfortunate. No, it's not merely "unfortunate", it's against the Code of Conduct. It is possible to "explore the core of matters of opinion" without being nasty, no matter how you slice it.
ORC_Kovacs 04-15-08, 02:19 PM	Let's stay on topic, and out of the mud, so to speak. Discourse is always served best by steering clear of personal attacks of any sort, in any direction.
MarkusTay63 04-15-08, 04:10 PM	Thank You. <just in case - it wasn't me that summoned the mod, but I am glad for the interruption to hostilities> Just as soon as a new Countdown article appears, I will update this one and sync it with the one at CK again. :)
Fillow 06-04-08, 02:17 PM	Markus, does this thread still "at work" or did you stop to update the first post ? Maybe you only do it on CK ?
Lord Karsus 06-04-08, 05:54 PM	Markus, does this thread still "at work" or did you stop to update the first post ? Maybe you only do it on CK ? -It hasn't been updated as new information has arrived. Don't go to Candlekeep often, so I don't know about the one he has there.
MarkusTay63 06-04-08, 06:04 PM	The one from Candlekeep has slightly more information, but that was gleened from some stuff the LFR people ar saying at Enworld, not from the Countdown Articles. I will sync this one up to the CK one again, since people are showing an interest. I was going to do that anyway when the promised 'gods' article came out, but it never did, so I'll just do it now. Anytime I update this, it will indeed appear in the first post.
Lord Karsus 06-04-08, 06:09 PM	I will sync this one up to the CK one again, since people are showing an interest. I was going to do that anyway when the promised 'gods' article came out, but it never did, so I'll just do it now. -At this point, I don't know if said article is going to be appearing anymore. It was supposed to come out, what? March? Being as that it's June now...Yeah... -I wonder if that's telling of anything...(in relation to the deities of the Forgotten Realms, and not WotC's business practices.)
MarkusTay63 06-04-08, 06:32 PM	I almost wonder if FR 4e will even be released at this point... Notice the 4e rules were released with nary a buzz? I saw no commercials, no announcments... How does anyone who is not already a gamer find out about it? The new edition was designed to attract new players... and yet... they have no clue it exists. :confused: Its almost as if they are trying to make it fail. Strangest business tactics I ever seen. If the core books don't do as good as they think, we might not even see 4e FR (although it appears the sales are doing very well). Stilll... would we actually prefer if NOTHING came out in August? I have to ask myself that...
Lord Karsus 06-04-08, 06:51 PM	Notice the 4e rules were released with nary a buzz? I saw no commercials, no announcments... How does anyone who is not already a gamer find out about it? The new edition was designed to attract new players... and yet... they have no clue it exists. :confused: -They were released? I thought we were still working off of "leaked" copies, and countries where the release date was before ours. -Hell, WotC changed the normal date of "D&D Day" to coincide with the new rules.
GreenKnight 06-04-08, 06:56 PM	4E doesn't come out til this friday. People have been talking about copies which've been accidentally shipped early by Buy.com and torrented files.
MarkusTay63 06-04-08, 07:09 PM	Either way, today or Friday... there is still NO big announcement anywhere in the media - no magazine ads of any kind... its just weird. The only places that have been talking about it are gamer-oriented, so that means no 'newbs' will even know about it. How are they going to attract new players that way? It just doesn't make any sense. Anyhoot - I've just added a couple of regions and what not to the lists, and a new section at the bottom, which is pretty redundant now that we have concret information, but I just included it for completeness (it was in the CK version for the past two months or so).
Lord Karsus 06-04-08, 07:29 PM	-Today...Friday...That's literally a day or two difference.
JudgeDookie 06-04-08, 09:07 PM	Either way, today or Friday... there is still NO big announcement anywhere in the media - no magazine ads of any kind... its just weird. The only places that have been talking about it are gamer-oriented, so that means no 'newbs' will even know about it. It's a roll-the-dice RPG. Not once have I ever heard any big announcement for such a thing. And, as far as I have ever been aware, advertisements have always been by word of mouth alone.
Lord Karsus 06-04-08, 09:49 PM	It's a roll-the-dice RPG. Not once have I ever heard any big announcement for such a thing. And, as far as I have ever been aware, advertisements have always been by word of mouth alone. -Since about a year or go, WotC has been doing some major advertisement of 3e in magazines like Wizard, and in comic books. Before that, when the WotC boards became Gleemax, they mailed a great deal of registered Magic: The Gathering players spongy brain stress ball things.
MerrikCale 06-04-08, 11:32 PM	-Since about a year or go, WotC has been doing some major advertisement of 3e in magazines like Wizard, and in comic books. Before that, when the WotC boards became Gleemax, they mailed a great deal of registered Magic: The Gathering players spongy brain stress ball things. For a long time, even back in TSR days, they would announce things thru comic book ads
Stigger 06-04-08, 11:35 PM	Seem them in some fairly mainstream magazines as well... might have been on in VF once even, and definitely in things like Military History and GFW.
GreenKnight 06-04-08, 11:43 PM	WotC must be doing something right, as the other day the Core Rulebook Gift Set was #2 in books on Amazon (currently #4), and it's been in the top ten for a good long while. That's not bad at all.
Stigger 06-04-08, 11:45 PM	Guess so. Good for them.
Fillow 06-05-08, 07:40 AM	The one from Candlekeep has slightly more information,... I will sync this one up to the CK one again, since people are showing an interest. I was going to do that anyway when the promised 'gods' article came out, but it never did, so I'll just do it now. Anytime I update this, it will indeed appear in the first post. Thanks for information Markus.
Alediran 06-05-08, 08:35 AM	WotC must be doing something right, as the other day the Core Rulebook Gift Set was #2 in books on Amazon (currently #4), and it's been in the top ten for a good long while. That's not bad at all. It's called snobism. The only reason it's selling well it's because it has the D&D logo. After a while sales will drop like a stone when most people who play the game decide to stay with 3rd edition or migrate to Pathfinder. Then it's only going to be sold to those few who are becoming new players on their own or have DMs that DM 4th edition.
Hugin 06-05-08, 09:43 AM	Tremendous info, Mark! Very concise and thorough. I wanted you to know that I linked and copied the FAQ post onto The Piazza (http://www.lajzar.co.uk/bb/index.php)'s FR forum (with full credit given, of course). Hopefully this will help out some people there and maybe even help with collecting further information.
peteyrock 06-05-08, 10:53 AM	Don't know if you'd like to add in the "Realmspeak" terms that were featured in this article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4pr/20080605a). Other than that, not really a whole of applicable information. *shrug*
Lord Karsus 06-05-08, 11:00 AM	Don't know if you'd like to add in the "Realmspeak" terms that were featured in this article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4pr/20080605a). Other than that, not really a whole of applicable information. *shrug* -At least there is a chapter-by-chapter breakdown of the new FRCS.
MarkusTay63 06-05-08, 11:40 AM	Thank you Peteyrock - I will go through that and see what I can use. Also, any LFR guys that participate here are more then welcome to correct anything amiss, or provide further info - Thanks. I wanted you to know that I linked and copied the FAQ post onto The Piazza (http://www.lajzar.co.uk/bb/index.php)'s FR forum (with full credit given, of course).ANYONE who wishes may copy this to another forum, and need not give me any credit - I have already given permission to several folks over at CK to do that on non-English boards. The idea is to spread information throughout the fan community, not to pat myself on the back. ;) It's a roll-the-dice RPG. Not once have I ever heard any big announcement for such a thing. And, as far as I have ever been aware, advertisements have always been by word of mouth alone.However, when 3e came out, I saw several mainstream advertisements for it, AND also saw a news story on it on the premier NY News channel - it was only a 2-3 minute blurb, but obviously considered newsworthy. This time... NOTHING. Nary a whisper... its like they want to sneak it past the public this time out. Just plain weird, if you ask me - or the guys at Hasbro gave the WotC guys ZERO budget for advertising, in which case someone up the food-chain WANTS D&D to fail (which makes sense, because if it isn't 'making the numbers' they like, the bean-counters are looking for ANY excuse to axe the line, and poor sales is a pretty damn good excuse). If they did a media-blitz, and had a cartoon, this edition could have been huge and the miniatures alone could have made record sales. It should have also been released more toward the end of the year, when parents and kids are looking for anything new to buy for Christmas, Maybe when the FR books come out, they'll start promoting 4th edition, just in time for the '08 X-mas season - that would be the way to go. It would make sense for them to wait until their 'Drizzt' setting was out - having a game with no world attached (ATM) might be why they are holding off. At least, I hope thats their plan. I find their logic often defies my reasoning. :bored:
dimonic 06-05-08, 12:53 PM	Just plain weird, if you ask me - or the guys at Hasbro gave the WotC guys ZERO budget for advertising, in which case someone up the food-chain WANTS D&D to fail (which makes sense, because if it isn't 'making the numbers' they like, the bean-counters are looking for ANY excuse to axe the line, and poor sales is a pretty damn good excuse). As far as can be guessed at, the numbers are doing very well. My local FLGS has sold out all their stock (pre-ordered) or PH, and has only a couple of MM and DMG, and they can't get more in time for launch. Amazon has them at #4 now (previously #2), and they have had to order a second printing already (they estimated sales to be 50% than the 3.5 introduction, and printed accordingly, so obviously they have outsold that). I would think that the last stat (outselling their own prediction) would be a sure indication that they are pleased with the numbers, so I would imagine that D&D is in no immediate danger.
GreenKnight 06-05-08, 01:05 PM	I almost wonder if FR 4e will even be released at this point... Notice the 4e rules were released with nary a buzz? I saw no commercials, no announcments... How does anyone who is not already a gamer find out about it? The new edition was designed to attract new players... and yet... they have no clue it exists. :confused: Its almost as if they are trying to make it fail. Strangest business tactics I ever seen. If the core books don't do as good as they think, we might not even see 4e FR (although it appears the sales are doing very well). Stilll... would we actually prefer if NOTHING came out in August? I have to ask myself that... Not seeing any commercials doesn't mean they want it to fail. Your logic doesn't follow, nor make much sense. Especially in light of the fact that WotC spent seven figures developing 4E (according to Scott Rouse). They didn't do all that only to "try to make it fail". In addition, the evidence we have at hand shows the exact opposite. Here's one bit. D&D 4E Back to Press Well Before Street Date May 30, 2008 A WotC spokesperson has informed ICv2 that Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition has already gone back to press more than a week before its scheduled street date next Friday, June 6th. Sell-in of 4th Edition has “far exceeded expectations” and even though the initial print run for 4th Edition was 50% higher than the order for the previous D&D 3.5 Edition, WotC has now realized that it is necessary to go back to press to meet anticipated reorder demand. Earlier this week reports indicated that Buy.com was breaking the street date and shipping copies of 4th Edition (and that 4th Edition elements were available as Bit Torrent downloads, see “D&D 4E Out Early”), clear evidence of the highly anticipated nature of D&D 4th Edition. Sell-in for 4th Edition turned out to be considerably higher than for 3.5 and the number of pre-orders keeps rising. The D&D 4E Core Rulebook Gift Set made it up to #5 on Amazon.com’s rankings today (Amazon appears to be observing the June 6th street date). So clearly WotC has reached the market they wanted to reach, and then some, as the initial print run for 4E was 50% bigger then the printrun for 3.5, and sold enough on preorders, alone, to warant a 2nd printing a week before the book is even out. If WotC is trying to make 4E fail, then clearly they're failing miserably at that. :)
MarkusTay63 06-05-08, 01:51 PM	First off, I would be insane to think WotC wanted 4e to fail - those guys depend on it for their livelihood! I was speaking about their 'Big Brother' - Hasbro, who is always looking over their shoulder. Despite the apparent success of 4e, they WILL compare it to other parts of the company - parts that do NOT need to spend seven figures (you're kidding, right?) to develop a single product line. I'm glad 4e is taking off, I really am. Those are all future little gamers that I get to tort... errr... enthrall in my games. :D My point was that GAMERS are buying 4e, which would include video & computer gamers, comic book and minitures enthusiasts, and just about every forty year old that still watches cartoons (like me). Who they aren't reaching is their target audience - those new gamers in the 10-14 age bracket who haven't tried D&D ever before. This edition was built from the ground up to make it streamlined and fast-paced just to get all those kids into the game. Now, on that part, I can applaud WotC's efforts. I just wished I saw something that told me they were reaching those consumers - right now we have massive numbers of gamers buying the books, but that is sure as hell going to slow down to a crawl in a month or two. Thats when they need to start thinking about the X-mas season. Show a cartoon commercial with mighty warriors and Wizards battling orcs and dragons, and then do a cut scene to kids playing with the minis re-enacting that battle. Show the kids having fun and getting all excited when they roll a 20... then cut to the head of an awesome dragon and fade-in the following words - The NEW Dundeons & Dragons ... This ain't your Grandpas's game. Then have flames roll out of the dragons maw and set fire to the words, and the commercial fades out with the second line's letters charred and crumbling. I have four boys - I know what will make them go nuts and run into my room screaming "Daddy Daddy! Me want! Me Want!" The current selling strategy is so subtle it's practically non-existant. I just hope they go all-out at the end of the year... and a new cartoon would help sell a few million extra units. Hasbro has a history of producing cartoons to go alongside their toy lines (GI Joes, Transformers, etc), so I don't see why they don't apply this strategy now, when it could really make D&D and their mini line be the next "must have" item for the '08 Holiday season. On Topic: I was going through Brian James' Realmslore article, and realized I overlooked a few gems in theri. I will be working on bringing this list up to date and more concise over the next few hours. Cheers --- Mark
Alediran 06-05-08, 02:44 PM	Initial sales don't reflect how good the product is going to do in the long run. Many videogames that made really good sales at the begining never sold much after that time. I predict that many of those sales are going to be returned (gamers who never had any information about 4th edition until reading the books and deciding they don't like it).
MarkusTay63 06-05-08, 03:25 PM	I don't think Gamers are big on returning stuff - they just won't make any future purchases. I think in order for the current forward momentum to continue, they need to do something noticeable, and not just to us. Gencon may have been the place to do that, but as of right now, WotC is not attending this year.
Alediran 06-05-08, 03:32 PM	I have returned material I didn't like every time, for example, the Eberron Campaign Setting.
MarkusTay63 06-05-08, 03:42 PM	Really? I greatly disliked Races of Destiny, but I kept it anyway. I just don't like to have anything 'missing' from my collection. Then again, the guy who owns the LGS has been a friend of mine for almost thirty years, so I'd feel bad if I wanted to return something. Plus he gives me wicked-cool discount. :P Besides, I liked the Eberron book, even if I would never play in it (at least not with the inferred style of play). I mine it for ideas all the time. :D
Therise 06-05-08, 03:46 PM	I have returned material I didn't like every time, for example, the Eberron Campaign Setting. Heh! That's funny. Eberron was one of the things that I've returned as well. It just didn't fit my interests at all. Too borderline magic-cyberpunky for me.
Alediran 06-05-08, 04:07 PM	Really? I greatly disliked Races of Destiny, but I kept it anyway. I just don't like to have anything 'missing' from my collection. Then again, the guy who owns the LGS has been a friend of mine for almost thirty years, so I'd feel bad if I wanted to return something. Plus he gives me wicked-cool discount. :P Besides, I liked the Eberron book, even if I would never play in it (at least not with the inferred style of play). I mine it for ideas all the time. :D Core and Forgotten Realms I've kept because I can use them even once or twice, but Eberron never had anything useful for me at all.
Stigger 06-05-08, 04:25 PM	Some of the feats were pretty nifty, as was the Artificer class. And Magic of Eberron had some fairly interesting ideas with that Alchemist PrC in there... not much else of the line ever really appealed though.
Lord Karsus 06-05-08, 05:47 PM	...and just about every forty year old that still watches cartoons (like me). -That slightly makes me feel better about myself. :P I have returned material I didn't like every time, for example, the Eberron Campaign Setting. -Yeah, same here. Happened only once.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 06-05-08, 07:28 PM	Gencon may have been the place to do that, but as of right now, WotC is not attending this year. I recall reading on CK that they will be attending.
Iakhovas 06-05-08, 07:55 PM	Yep, they're going. http://www.wizards.com/images/gc1.jpg http://www.wizards.com/images/gc2.jpg (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1033381)
Lord Karsus 06-05-08, 08:08 PM	-Who is that? I know what Rich Baker looks like, so that can't be him. I am guessing that's either Chris Perkins, or Bruce Cordell. Chris Perkins, I am guessing. Look at him. He is so asking to be stopped. Seriously...
Stigger 06-06-08, 09:24 AM	Looks a bit muscular to be Perkins... I'm going with the bodyguard to protect them from the stampede of rabid, angry FR fans, all wearing Rich Baker Must Be Stopped T-Shirts...
Lord Karsus 06-06-08, 09:38 AM	Looks a bit muscular to be Perkins... I'm going with the bodyguard to protect them from the stampede of rabid, angry FR fans, all wearing Rich Baker Must Be Stopped T-Shirts... -Good point.
asmodius777 06-10-08, 04:28 PM	i saw on ck you were having a conversation on Faerie and the Feywild. when i read the the novel on the history of the elves i believe that Faerie was the original home world of the elves but was being destroyed by an unknowm force. with the return of Faerie it could be the explination of why the elves are now elidrin. the wild elves were the only ones native to toril. so the faerie and the feywild maybe very different. just a thought
Lord Karsus 06-10-08, 05:25 PM	when i read the the novel on the history of the elves i believe that Faerie was the original home world of the elves but was being destroyed by an unknowm force. -All of Faerie was not destroyed. Only Tintageer, an island-nation where the Sun and Moon Elves hailed from was destroyed. the wild elves were the only ones native to toril. -No Elves are native to Abeir-Toril. Even the Elves came to Realmspace before the Sun and Moon Elves came from Faerie. These first Green/Wood Elves were tricked by the Fey, and came to Abeir-Toril circa -27,000 DR, with the Dark Elves following shortly thereafter.
MerrikCale 06-11-08, 12:33 PM	-No Elves are native to Abeir-Toril. Even the Elves came to Realmspace before the Sun and Moon Elves came from Faerie. These first Green/Wood Elves were tricked by the Fey, and came to Abeir-Toril circa -27,000 DR, with the Dark Elves following shortly thereafter. Is that still going to be the explanation? Are there Star Elves in 4E?
Lord Karsus 06-11-08, 12:42 PM	Is that still going to be the explanation? -Anything else would be a retcon. Are there Star Elves in 4E? -Presumably.
MarkusTay63 06-11-08, 01:31 PM	Looks like Vin Diesel to me... Yep, they're going. http://www.wizards.com/images/gc1.jpg http://www.wizards.com/images/gc2.jpg (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1033381)I don't think even Riddick can stop all that destruction and carnage... and then there are the rabid fans to consider. :P http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/Riddick.jpg At least they are telling the truth with that "Best Four Days of Gaming" - Paizo WILL be in attendance. :D Anyway, I think Star Elves will just be Eladrin that mated with angler fish - http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/Angler_Fish.png And I think that perhaps that all of Faerie was indeed being attacked... by the NOTHING! :eek: Then Sebastion and the child-like Princess and that Horse kid and the puppy-faced dragon all saved the day. But they didn't invite the Elves back... even fantasy creatures have their standards. :evillaugh
Lord Karsus 06-11-08, 03:00 PM	Anyway, I think Star Elves will just be Eladrin that mated with angler fish - http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/Angler_Fish.png -I hate those things...
Fillow 06-11-08, 03:40 PM	Mark, Would you agree with adding Swordmage data ? I'm just finishing the chapter four but I already saw some new lore : Such as the city of Hulburg which still exists I also read that Amaunator, Ilmater and Gruumsh were quoted as current deities. I forgot my notepad at work (I know. You don't care but I'm just explaining !). So I may add few ones tomorrow if you agree
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 06-11-08, 08:29 PM	-I hate those things... I LOVE those things!:D
Lord Karsus 06-11-08, 11:30 PM	I LOVE those things!:D -I know, I know...
MerrikCale 06-12-08, 12:53 PM	I LOVE those things!:D to eat?
Lord Karsus 06-12-08, 12:56 PM	to eat? -I think it might be illegal to eat one of those things, I don't know.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 06-12-08, 01:02 PM	I like creatures like that just to look at.:)
Lord Karsus 06-12-08, 01:06 PM	I like creatures like that just to look at.:) -Give me a call tonight. I actually wanted to ask about changing dinner to a zoo, so go figure!
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 06-12-08, 01:50 PM	-Give me a call tonight. I actually wanted to ask about changing dinner to a zoo, so go figure! Will do.;)
MerrikCale 06-12-08, 04:29 PM	-Give me a call tonight. I actually wanted to ask about changing dinner to a zoo, so go figure! hmmmmmmmmmm.........whats this about..................hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Alediran 06-12-08, 04:30 PM	hmmmmmmmmmm.........whats this about..................hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I saw Hanali behind LK when he wrote that post.
MerrikCale 06-12-08, 04:42 PM	I saw Hanali behind LK when he wrote that post. not Sharess?
Alediran 06-12-08, 04:43 PM	No, it was Hanali because LK is a Sun Elf.
18DELTA 06-12-08, 06:19 PM	hmmmmmmmmmm.........whats this about..................hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm -Pretty soon they will be posting the Wedding Ceremony...with Markus as the JOP...Do you Lord Karsus take fair Rhino as your lawfully wedded wife. LK post...I do. Markus will post Rhino do you take The Almighty One as you Lawfully wedded husband. Rhino will post...I do. I don't believe I just typed this! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 18DELTA ;) :P :D
MerrikCale 06-12-08, 06:59 PM	-Rhino do you take The Almighty One as you Lawfully wedded wife. They got rid of lawful, its just wedded wife now. Unless of course, this is a 3.5 edition wedding
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 06-12-08, 08:27 PM	I can see cause of divorce..... She like 4E best :rofl:
MerrikCale 06-13-08, 09:51 AM	I can see cause of divorce..... She like 4E best :rofl: Now now, lets give these kids good thoughts
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 06-13-08, 09:26 PM	4E? Divorce? Oh geez, you guys are too much. :rofl:
MerrikCale 06-13-08, 10:13 PM	4E? Divorce? Oh geez, you guys are too much. :rofl: we try
MarkusTay63 06-14-08, 12:06 AM	Was it do to 4e, or a lack of 4play? :P
Lord Karsus 06-14-08, 12:10 AM	Was it do to 4e, or a lack of 4play? :P -That's never the case with Lord Karsus. :D ;) :cool:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 06-14-08, 12:29 AM	Indeed.:embarrass :)
MerrikCale 06-14-08, 08:58 PM	Indeed.:embarrass :) yow zaa
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 06-14-08, 09:14 PM	Indeed.:embarrass :) :eek:
JudgeDookie 06-14-08, 09:18 PM	:eek: Oh, please explain this. Life is incomplete without it. ;)
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 06-14-08, 09:20 PM	Oh, please explain this. Life is incomplete without it. ;) :eek:
JudgeDookie 06-14-08, 09:45 PM	:eek: Oh...that...yeah. :rolleyes: Turn to Bejebuz, you content-less freak!! Praise him!!! :rant: Do it! Less you become an 18 DELTA and :cloud9: :ayyyy!: :angel: :dancin: :heehee :dancin: :dancin: :cool: :confused: :) :) :) :) :) :) :) I'm trying to save you Ody! :weep:
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 06-14-08, 09:56 PM	I wasn't going to put anymore smileys But the whole "I'm trying to save you Ody!" deserves a :rofl:
MerrikCale 06-14-08, 10:00 PM	this whole thing is making me blush more please
JudgeDookie 06-14-08, 10:28 PM	I wasn't going to put anymore smileys But the whole "I'm trying to save you Ody!" deserves a :rofl: See?! See?! :cheer: :love: :P :mad: :rolleyes: ;) ;) :D This is just not good for you. Turn to Bejebuz. Praise Bejebuz! :rant:
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 06-14-08, 10:34 PM	See?! See?! :cheer: :love: :P :mad: :rolleyes: ;) ;) :D This is just not good for you. Turn to Bejebuz. Praise Bejebuz! :rant: Praise Oh Great Be...j *ahem* Be....je..zz :shifty: Be...jez..k k kkKKKK KARSUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:nonono: sorry I DID try :P
Lord Karsus 06-14-08, 10:55 PM	-You rang? -Let's try to get back on semi-topic, eh?
MerrikCale 06-14-08, 11:40 PM	-You rang? -Let's try to get back on semi-topic, eh? You started it Mr. "Give me a call tonight."
18DELTA 06-15-08, 12:40 AM	-:) :( :D ;) :P :embarrass :cool: :rolleyes: :mad: :eek: :confused: :weep: :rofl: 18DELTA :P
MarkusTay63 06-15-08, 01:55 AM	So much for "Just the Facts!" :( Oh, please explain this. Life is incomplete without it. ;) Well you see, when a man loves a woman, and she loves him back... Oh... nevermind... If you can't figure it out yourself, you're either too young to know, or too old to remember... :rolleyes:
ikki 06-15-08, 04:21 AM	-Not to even mention Lolth's rather detailed history with Shar's rather detailed history... Must be the archmages (khelben, laereal, elmister etc..) BS histories that they keep writing all the nights as they cannot sleep ;) To the point that all knowledge skills are nothing but that bs.. noone knows anything of any substance! By the Eye of Odin, it even has managed to confuse all divinations! This explains, you see, why all the previous info was wrong. And those were supposed to be chosen of mystra, looks like cyric had his claws into her from the beginning. Even before cyric became a god.. :rolleyes:
Lord Karsus 06-15-08, 08:35 AM	You started it Mr. "Give me a call tonight." -And she did. ;) -But, anyway...Just the Facts! This explains, you see, why all the previous info was wrong. -Eh, if only. It's a little more complicated than that...:)
MarkusTay63 06-15-08, 10:24 AM	Must be the archmages (khelben, laereal, elmister etc..) BS histories that they keep writing all the nights as they cannot sleep ;) To the point that all knowledge skills are nothing but that bs.. noone knows anything of any substance! By the Eye of Odin, it even has managed to confuse all divinations! This explains, you see, why all the previous info was wrong. And those were supposed to be chosen of mystra, looks like cyric had his claws into her from the beginning. Even before cyric became a god.. :rolleyes:You know... I can use this! :D Accept it was Leira who helped confusticate the past, and since her death during the ToT all of those 'lies' have started to unravel, and the real truth is becoming known. Not bad - you just gave us a decent springboard to change whatever the hell we want. :dancin:
MerrikCale 06-15-08, 01:50 PM	-And she did. ;) and you wonder why juvenile deliquents such as myself go off-topic with comments like that?
JudgeDookie 06-15-08, 03:11 PM	Praise Oh Great Be...j *ahem* Be....je..zz :shifty: Be...jez..k k kkKKKK KARSUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:nonono: sorry I DID try :P It’s ok, Ody. You did try—and that’s the most important part. :clap: We’ll save you yet. I say. We’ll try again some other time. Well you see, when a man loves a woman, and she loves him back... Oh... nevermind... If you can't figure it out yourself, you're either too young to know, or too old to remember... :rolleyes: I was quite aware of what was going on. My post did not pertain to that aspect of things. Though, if you want to give me your interpretation of the birds and the bees, I am more than willing to humor you. :D Not bad - you just gave us a decent springboard to change whatever the hell we want. :dancin: There are 12,000 good reasons to change “whatever the hell we want.” And that is a 4e fact. ;)
Phelf_Der_Zemit 06-15-08, 05:39 PM	I read pages 1 and 2, scannd page 3.. and I thought I'd ask the question on everybodies mind. .. Mask? With the right inflection you get my point.
JudgeDookie 06-15-08, 06:03 PM	Inflection or not--Mask rules!!! :evillaugh
Lord Karsus 06-15-08, 07:19 PM	I read pages 1 and 2, scannd page 3.. and I thought I'd ask the question on everybodies mind. .. Mask? With the right inflection you get my point. -No reason to assume he won't be around in some shape or form.
Phelf_Der_Zemit 06-15-08, 08:21 PM	No! don't get me wrong. Mask is my favorite deity. I thought I knew/gathered all I could about him in 4e, but I just wanted to double check.
JudgeDookie 06-15-08, 10:30 PM	Most people discount Mask--assume him to be a lesser power. I can see otherwise though.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 06-16-08, 11:45 AM	Most people discount Mask--assume him to be a lesser power. Well, according to the sourcebooks, he is a lesser power.:) In 4E that might change...but it also might not change.
Lord Karsus 06-23-08, 11:10 PM	Well, according to the sourcebooks, he is a lesser power.:) In 4E that might change...but it also might not change. -As of right now, I see no reason for this to change. I would say that the conclusion of the Twilightwar trilogy might convince me one way or the other, but the FRCG will be released before that, so...Might as well get the info from the source, so to speak.
MerrikCale 06-24-08, 11:26 AM	-As of right now, I see no reason for this to change. I would say that the conclusion of the Twilightwar trilogy might convince me one way or the other, but the FRCG will be released before that, so...Might as well get the info from the source, so to speak. how much before it? I suspect he may grow in power
Lord Karsus 06-24-08, 01:15 PM	how much before it? I suspect he may grow in power -The FRCG is going to be released, what? In July? August? The last book of that trilogy, Paul told us, is going to be released in December.
MerrikCale 06-24-08, 03:21 PM	-The FRCG is going to be released, what? In July? August? The last book of that trilogy, Paul told us, is going to be released in December. Yeah it is August. I was unsure of the last book's release date, although it wouldn't surprise me if there are spoilers in the FRCG
Nymrohd 06-24-08, 03:40 PM	Bah Paul is pretty much the only writer in FR whose work I actually like . . . please no spoilers:( And 4E will not have greater/intermediate/lesser powers. Most lessers will get demoted to exarchs.
Lord Karsus 06-24-08, 03:57 PM	Yeah it is August. I was unsure of the last book's release date, although it wouldn't surprise me if there are spoilers in the FRCG -Probably. WotC has a habit of doing that.
MerrikCale 06-24-08, 04:04 PM	-Probably. WotC has a habit of doing that. you're catching my drift, my man
naex 06-24-08, 07:55 PM	Chondath: after the spellplague, and the inner sea is partly drained, the ruins of Jhaamdath are revealed and available for exploration. By the way, the Udoclian is not a good place to be, as I have a strong claim on it already, and am not adverse to removing trespassers by force if necessary.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 06-25-08, 12:05 PM	And 4E will not have greater/intermediate/lesser powers. Most lessers will get demoted to exarchs. Actually, I could have sworn that "lesser power" status is still in place, though that could be wrong.
GreenKnight 06-25-08, 12:39 PM	There're Lesser Gods in 4E. From the looks of it, though, they're the equivalent of 3E Intermediate Gods, while 3E Lesser Gods and Demigods are 4E Demigods/Exarchs. So Ilmater, Tymora, and Gond will probably be Lesser Gods in the 4E Realms.
Lord Karsus 06-25-08, 03:57 PM	So Ilmater, Tymora, and Gond will probably be Lesser Gods in the 4E Realms. -Rich Baker has confirmed that Ilmater will be more than a "lesser" deity, as he will be having a "whole" write-up in the FRCG, something not extended to near non-existent deities.
naex 06-25-08, 07:18 PM	As a protagonist for Jhaamdath, I must ask if they have any plans to ever mention Auppenser ever again? As a major god (main god of the Jhaamdathan pantheon) he recieved a few short sentences and is stated to be asleep, but not dead. So did he just pass into nothingness?
Lord Karsus 06-25-08, 09:55 PM	As a protagonist for Jhaamdath, I must ask if they have any plans to ever mention Auppenser ever again? As a major god (main god of the Jhaamdathan pantheon) he recieved a few short sentences and is stated to be asleep, but not dead. So did he just pass into nothingness? -Odds are that he did, especially with the current design philosophy, of "chopping off" the loose branches and what not. When/if 4e Psionics makes it's debut, there might be a mention of Auppenser, being as that he is one of the few deities related to Psionics.
XHereticX 06-25-08, 10:03 PM	As a protagonist for Jhaamdath, I must ask if they have any plans to ever mention Auppenser ever again? As a major god (main god of the Jhaamdathan pantheon) he recieved a few short sentences and is stated to be asleep, but not dead. So did he just pass into nothingness? He might resurface as a regional exarch that is worshipped locally as a sort of saint in the Vilhon Reach.
GreenKnight 06-25-08, 11:26 PM	-Rich Baker has confirmed that Ilmater will be more than a "lesser" deity, as he will be having a "whole" write-up in the FRCG, something not extended to near non-existent deities. He said Ilmater's considered one of the major deities. He didn't say Ilmater would be a Greater God, though. In addition, before that, he said the following: 2. 30-ish deities that are important... And from previous statements he's made, we know there're about 15 Greater Gods and an equal number of Lesser Gods. Given that comment, Rich considers those 30 gods to be "the major deities" of the Realms. And since only about half that list includes Greater Gods, then the other half, Lesser Gods, are also very important. Remember, we have three categoies of deities, here. The ones that are relegated to unimportance are the Demigods/Exarchs. Lesser Gods are a different matter.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 06-26-08, 10:16 AM	As a protagonist for Jhaamdath, I must ask if they have any plans to ever mention Auppenser ever again? As a major god (main god of the Jhaamdathan pantheon) he recieved a few short sentences and is stated to be asleep, but not dead. So did he just pass into nothingness? Why not ask Rich in his thread? It's worth a shot.
XHereticX 06-26-08, 06:54 PM	Why not ask Rich in his thread? It's worth a shot. I dunno if Rich is ever going to come back after all the BS people have been giving him in that thread.:(
Lord Karsus 06-26-08, 07:00 PM	I dunno if Rich is ever going to come back after all the BS people have been giving him in that thread.:( -He's answered plenty of questions since "all the BS people have been giving him".
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 06-26-08, 07:36 PM	-He's answered plenty of questions since "all the BS people have been giving him". Indeed. He seems to be more thick-skinned then some people give him credit for.
MerrikCale 06-27-08, 09:43 AM	Indeed. He seems to be more thick-skinned then some people give him credit for. well, thats true
MerrikCale 06-28-08, 07:00 PM	Hey Markus, perhaps this should be updated in the class section since its basically confirmed that bards, barbarians, druids and goliaths appear in PHB2
MarkusTay63 06-28-08, 11:53 PM	I try to get to that tomorrow - I've been REAL busy the past couple weeks... :(
MerrikCale 06-29-08, 08:53 PM	I try to get to that tomorrow - I've been REAL busy the past couple weeks... :( I'll forgive. Just don't take as long as LK did with the Bladesinger
Lord Karsus 06-29-08, 09:39 PM	I'll forgive. Just don't take as long as LK did with the Bladesinger -Notice, I posted it. :P
Lord Karsus 06-29-08, 09:41 PM	-Oh, and MT, you can add in that the Plane of Faerie is now "closer" to the Prime Material Plane (even though, previously, the two were already virtually overlapping...)
MerrikCale 06-30-08, 04:02 PM	-Notice, I posted it. :P BUt it took like 2 whole days
Lord Karsus 06-30-08, 04:04 PM	BUt it took like 2 whole days -I gave you warning!
MerrikCale 07-01-08, 01:21 PM	-I gave you warning! :pbbbtt:
MarkusTay63 07-01-08, 02:03 PM	-Oh, and MT, you can add in that the Plane of Faerie is now "closer" to the Prime Material Plane (even though, previously, the two were already virtually overlapping...)Yeah... I'm not quite sure how you can get closer then 'occupying the same exact space'. :uh-huh: Anyhow - and this is not canon so it doesn't go 'up front' - I figure "Faerie" is the section of the Feywild that has always connected to Toril (and perhaps a few other worlds), and now the REST of the Feywild is what has become 'in conjuction' with FR once again. I look at Faerie as FR's own 'private Feywild' - just a small sub-section of the greater whole. IMG, the Feywild will be the more 'cosmic', all-pervasive transitive plane that touches all others... but first you have to travel through the Mittlemarch (term lifted from Moorcock's writing), which is sort of like the Feywild's version of the 'near ethereal', and thats what I imagine FR's Faerie to be. The Feywild proper would work more like the Deep Ethereal, in that it is the one that exists at a 'higher' level in the Great Wheel Cosmology. I assume ALL transitive planes work that way, having small 'ghettoes' that are connected diretly to prime worlds, and all of those are connected in turn to the 'parent plane'. That means the Shadowfell is really just the 'border realm' for the Negative plane, in my way of looking at things. Living things CAN'T travel into the 'Deep Shadow' because their lifeforce would immediately be drained. Since the Feywild is new, but Faerie is not, they seem to have needlessly attempted to ret-con something that already existed - hence my above shoe-horning of old lore with the new. And like I said, none of that is canon, but it helps me sleep at night. ;)
Lord Karsus 07-01-08, 02:11 PM	Yeah... I'm not quite sure how you can get closer then 'occupying the same exact space'. :uh-huh: -That's what I said, before whoever it was asked Rich, and got the aforementioned answer. Can a piece of paper lying on top of another piece of paper really get any closer? :rolleyes: -I also find it funny that you used the term 'ghetto', and then had a typo that said 'yo'. ;)
Therise 07-01-08, 02:13 PM	-That's what I said, before whoever it was asked Rich, and got the aforementioned answer. Can a piece of paper lying on top of another piece of paper really get any closer? :rolleyes: Love can happen anywhere.
MarkusTay63 07-01-08, 02:23 PM	LOL - I caught the double 'H' on my second read-through, but I missed the 'yo'. :D I had a Math teacher once who handed out dittoes that just showed two dots, and then asked us to connect the dots in the shortest way possible. Most people drew a straight line, and a few clever ones drew a line off the page and connected it from the other side (assuming that the universe is curved). When we were all done - without even looking at them - he said we all failed the test. Then he picked up the paper, fold it so the two dots touched, and thrust the pencil through both. It was one of those 'visual' points that sticks with you, and it has always caused me to try and approach problems from a unthought of angles. Anyhow, even if you don't go along with my version, you still have to interpret everything on a cosmic scale. On that scale, an epoch is just a 'blink of an eye', and trillion trillion miles is 'right next door'. So, maybe before they over-lapped but were a 100' apart (figuritively), and now they are a mere 20' apart. Even the two sheets of paper have thousands of atoms seperating them, and if you stacked the paper a million sheets high, I bet the bottom two will be MUCH closer together. ;)
MerrikCale 07-02-08, 03:54 PM	LOL - I caught the double 'H' on my second read-through, but I missed the 'yo'. :D I had a Math teacher once who handed out dittoes that just showed two dots, and then asked us to connect the dots in the shortest way possible. Most people drew a straight line, and a few clever ones drew a line off the page and connected it from the other side (assuming that the universe is curved). When we were all done - without even looking at them - he said we all failed the test. Then he picked up the paper, fold it so the two dots touched, and thrust the pencil through both. It was one of those 'visual' points that sticks with you, and it has always caused me to try and approach problems from a unthought of angles. Anyhow, even if you don't go along with my version, you still have to interpret everything on a cosmic scale. On that scale, an epoch is just a 'blink of an eye', and trillion trillion miles is 'right next door'. So, maybe before they over-lapped but were a 100' apart (figuritively), and now they are a mere 20' apart. Even the two sheets of paper have thousands of atoms seperating them, and if you stacked the paper a million sheets high, I bet the bottom two will be MUCH closer together. ;) man this stuff gives me a headache
Lord Karsus 07-02-08, 10:04 PM	man this stuff gives me a headache -MT's interpretations of things often do that to people.
Stigger 07-03-08, 12:33 AM	Makes perfect sense to me...
MarkusTay63 07-03-08, 12:39 AM	Well thats NOT good... We've just figured out you do Shrooms in the other thread, so now I only make sense to people who do mind-altering drugs? :( ;) :P
Stigger 07-03-08, 12:48 AM	I don't do shrooms... I'm allergic to the damned things. Besides, Modern Chemistry gives us much better highs than the organic crap. :P ;) :D
MarkusTay63 07-03-08, 01:09 AM	To be honest, I never tried them either - it looked like cow dung to me. :yuck: Tried nearly everything else back then, though.. :rolleyes:
Stigger 07-03-08, 01:24 AM	Too hippie for me to have ever bothered with... I hate hippies with a violent passion though, so no suprise that I haven't tried them I guess. I suppose its from growing up in Berkeley and having been exposed to too much of their BS at an early age without having ever been taken in by it.
MarkusTay63 07-03-08, 01:30 AM	Have you ever seen the Southpark Hippie-spoof that was a take-off from Day After Tomorrow? It sounds like you'd love it. Good stuff. :D
Stigger 07-03-08, 01:34 AM	Don't much care for Southpark... its amusing enough, but the style of the animation bothers me no end.
naex 07-03-08, 03:50 AM	Don't much care for Southpark... its amusing enough, but the style of the animation bothers me no end. The amusing thing about that is that they are using a computer to do the animation, it is crappy because they wanted it to stay true to the first couple of seasons. And they even made fun of the animation in at least one episode and in the movie.
Stigger 07-03-08, 01:52 PM	Still don't like it much. :P ;)
MarkusTay63 07-03-08, 02:00 PM	It's 'their thing'. :) Anyhow, if you get a chance, you can probably find that episode somewhere - see it! If you really feel the way you do about hippies, you will literally be rolling on the floor. Also, seeing Day after tomorrow helps to get most of the jokes. - "I've detected three Hippie Drum-circles here, here, and here... and they are growing. When they finally grow large enough and connect, that will be the end of life as we know it..." The material is classic! :D
Lord Karsus 07-03-08, 02:14 PM	-MT, there was a new Amn article in DRAGON, apparently. Some people should be posting some relevant facts...Get ready to update.
MarkusTay63 07-03-08, 02:16 PM	Eeeeeeeewww. I get to contribute in a meaningful way again. :D
MerrikCale 07-03-08, 02:17 PM	-MT, there was a new Amn article in DRAGON, apparently. Some people should be posting some relevant facts...Get ready to update. Its from the July and Beyond Preview article. Is that part of dragon?
Nymrohd 07-03-08, 02:19 PM	No, July and Beyond is not part of Dragon.
Lord Karsus 07-03-08, 02:24 PM	-Whatever it is, I don't know.
Nymrohd 07-03-08, 02:31 PM	So apparently the Council of Six in Amn lost a member and the other five are making sure they stay a Council of Five. The Council of Five has gone public and seems to be hereditary to five noble houses, one that controls the Cowled Wizards (the only wizards who can practice the arcane legally still), one with strong ties to Cyric who is worshipped publically and openly in Amn, and ofc the Dannihyrs who are in control of the Shadow Thieves (they actually became a noble house now). Murannheim was renamed Muranndin yet it stays strong. Velen must have ceceeded since it is an independent duchy. The leader of Muranndin is known as the Great Mur . . . It seems Athkalta is called the city of sin and practically everything is legal and crimes have only fines as sentences. Popular shops include Tiny Deaths (poisons), the Museum of Inquisition (torture equipment), Madroon’s Curios (a little of this, a little of that), Lowmarket (slaves), Faded Ages (memory tailoring), Odd Candy (sweets . . . ?), and I Change (body modification) (and I Cringe while reading this. Goldspires and Waukeen are still going strong. We have confirmation of the Mhair Archipelago. While the changes are not exactly surprising, the writing of the article is not up to the standards of the 3E FRCS
MerrikCale 07-03-08, 02:34 PM	While the changes are not exactly surprising, the writing of the article is not up to the standards of the 3E FRCS Do you mean the actual writing style of the article or the stuff that has happened to Amn?
Nymrohd 07-03-08, 02:35 PM	The writing style of the article.
Therise 07-03-08, 02:37 PM	It seems Athkalta is called the city of sin and practically everything is legal and crimes have only fines as sentences. Popular shops include Tiny Deaths (poisons), the Museum of Inquisition (torture equipment), Madroon’s Curios (a little of this, a little of that), Lowmarket (slaves), Faded Ages (memory tailoring), Odd Candy (sweets . . . ?), and I Change (body modification) (and I Cringe while reading this. Slaves, poison, torture equipment, and memory modification all available on the same avenue? Talk about convenience! I may move to Athkatla! :thumbsup:
Nymrohd 07-03-08, 02:39 PM	Anyway Amn seems to be what it was only amplified.
Stigger 07-03-08, 02:41 PM	Seemed to be something of an appeal to shock value to me... very boring. Just seems like they felt they had to go way over the top to tell us just how very evil and despicable this place was... showed too much monster I guess.
Nymrohd 07-03-08, 02:44 PM	Indeed. The entire paragraph on athkalta was tacky and ill-inspired. They could have described things to the same effect without being so overt. And why on earth does a DM need to know where to buy torture equipment? Slaves and poisons yes, but casual mention of a shop that sells torture equipment is just over the top.
MerrikCale 07-03-08, 03:09 PM	Seemed to be something of an appeal to shock value to me... very boring. Just seems like they felt they had to go way over the top to tell us just how very evil and despicable this place was... showed too much monster I guess. now that you mention it, I see that
Therise 07-03-08, 03:24 PM	Indeed. The entire paragraph on athkalta was tacky and ill-inspired. They could have described things to the same effect without being so overt. And why on earth does a DM need to know where to buy torture equipment? Slaves and poisons yes, but casual mention of a shop that sells torture equipment is just over the top. No joke there. For me, it's just yet another sign of shoddy design philosophy. Honestly, with rampant and openly accepted torture and paid-for crime on the order of regular "legal murders" and the like, are we really supposed to believe that anyone would actually live there? Or is this yet another new "dark Mordor-like realm" where there's supposedly a large concentration of tieflings and their ilk (see New Thay, but replace tieflings with undead). Are all of the humans slaves, is that why they haven't left for other realms? It's one thing to say that there is a dark underside to a city, but this is just stretching it way too far for believability.
MarkusTay63 07-03-08, 03:56 PM	Strange, considering their 'good taste' clause in the GSL - they don't want anyone else creating non-PG13 material, but its Okay for them? Double-standard, hmmm? It sounds like Athkatla has become the Realms version of Grand Theft Auto. :( Slaves, poison, torture equipment, and memory modification all available on the same avenue? Talk about convenience! I may move to Athkatla! :thumbsup:You scare me sometimes. :rolleyes:
Lord Karsus 07-03-08, 04:00 PM	-There's a "Good Taste Clause"? Funny stuff...
Therise 07-03-08, 04:03 PM	You scare me sometimes. :rolleyes: 'twas humor. :D :P :D
MarkusTay63 07-03-08, 04:08 PM	From that section - 7. Quality and Content Standards. The nature and quality of all Licensed Products will conform to the quality standards set by Wizards, as may be provided from time to time. At a minimum, the Licensed Products will conform to community standards of decency and appropriateness as determined by Wizards in its discretion. Without limiting the foregoing, no Licensed Products will depict in any text, graphical or other manner: (a) excessively graphic violence or gore; (b) sexual situations, sexual abuse, pornography, gratuitous nudity of human or humanoid forms, genitalia, or sexual activity; or (c) existing real-world minorities, nationalities, social castes, religious groups or practices, political preferences, genders, lifestyle preferences, or people with disabilities, as a group inferior to any other group or in a way that promotes disrespect for those groups or practices, or that endorses those groups or practices over another. Without limiting the foregoing, Licensed Products will not contain any content that is unlawful, defamatory, harassing, threatening, abusive, inflammatory, fraudulent or otherwise objectionable or that would infringe upon or violate the rights of any third party or constitute, encourage, or provide instructions for a criminal offense.Accent, mine. They don't want anymore Books of Erotic Fantasy or Nymphology. Can't say I blame them about that kind of stuff - I don't think I'd want to game with a group that was using 'sex rules'. :yuck: However, this can easily get out-of-hand, since it is WotC determining what is decent, and what is not (while at the same time, they don't have to live up to their own standards, apparently).
Nymrohd 07-03-08, 04:10 PM	Back in the early years of Dragon they had published orgy rules.
MarkusTay63 07-03-08, 04:13 PM	In the Ravenloft setting, there was an entire town of undead that were still going about their business as if they were alive... including zombie prostitutes. Probably the first time I ever had an 'Eeewwww, Gross!" moment while reading any gaming product.
Lord Karsus 07-03-08, 04:14 PM	-So, I guess there goes 3rd party settings about...Ancient Egypt...Or...Ancient India...
MarkusTay63 07-03-08, 04:24 PM	This is a little off-topic, but that License really only allows 3rd parties to create generic adventure-modules usable with D&D's core rules... and thats it. If you attempt to do anything more with it, you are taking your chances, because it is not designed to do so. They want companies that design their own settings and splat books to form seperate licensing agreements - that is just the general one. Under those agreements, they get to dictate what you can and can't do, in order to avoid any possible future problems with a licensee producing stuff that they themselves wanted to cover down the road (and can change their minds to do so at anytime - like when the other companies 'experimental' product turns into a goldmine). For what its worth, I'm under the impression that Goodman Games has gone and done just that, but I still have seen nothing official to that effect.
Nymrohd 07-03-08, 04:27 PM	Yes the GSL will lead to a peculiar age. I for one am not sure that open gaming was great for Wizards, however great it was for the gaming community (and it was great) and they may simply be correcting a financial mistake. But we will really have to see what happens by Octomber to get a glimpse of what happens. And I guess I am a bit biased cause the rampant feeling of entitlement certain people are preaching on over at the GSL forums and in forums thoughout the internet is really aggravating.
Stigger 07-03-08, 05:13 PM	It breaks down to a very simple point, its WotC's intellectual property and they can do what they bloody well please with it. If they allow others to play in their backyard, its by their rules, within the confines of the larger body of law as to what is legal and what is not. You want their stuff, you have to play by their rules. Period.
Alediran 07-03-08, 05:17 PM	Fine by me. I don't intend to play in their sandbox.
Nymrohd 07-03-08, 05:18 PM	Exactly. Now back to Amn! I am surprised by how tiny that excerpt was. Is this all the space Amn will get in the FRCG? What happened with the tlincallis and Obox-ob (now that is a marvelously disgusting obyrith lord of an antagonist)? Did anyone actually find the armory of Nedeheim? Is Blackwill Akhmere still around in Muranndin? His temple? What happened to the significant presence of Selune in Amn? Seriously that snipet is tiny.
Stigger 07-03-08, 05:22 PM	I'd suspect its just that, a tiny snippet of what's going to be in the FRCG. At least I would hope so... if not, well, that's a discussion best left for a more venomous thread.
Nymrohd 07-03-08, 05:24 PM	Indeed . . .
Nymrohd 07-03-08, 05:27 PM	Tbh I am tempted to ask Rich about that excerpt. As if it is the final piece and how big a part of the section on amn it is. It can help me decide a lot of things about FR.
Stigger 07-03-08, 05:34 PM	Asking him can't hurt, so I'd say do it.
Nymrohd 07-03-08, 05:40 PM	I just did. I dread he says yes (but I guess that will save me some money . . .) I am bying the player's guide whatever happens anyway. I cannot resist crunch.
Stigger 07-03-08, 05:41 PM	Hate to say it, but it did look like a 'whole entry' to me, with the plot seeds bit at the end. Hope I'm wrong about that though.
MarkusTay63 07-03-08, 06:28 PM	If I understand some of the responses I got to questions of certain people, most of the regions will be three pages. Some areas, like Waterdeep, will get double that, because they are considered 'essential campaign areas'. In actuality, in most cases that works out to be quite a bit more then alot of places got in the 3e FRCS. Even Murghōm gets three pages! Thats more info then the place has had in all three editions combined!
Nymrohd 07-03-08, 06:32 PM	Murghom got tons of space in the hordelands supplement:) (I adore that supplement) Well the Amn excerpt we got certainly does not look even close to 3 pages long. I so very much hope it is just an early draft.
MarkusTay63 07-03-08, 06:41 PM	NO, it did NOT. Semphar did. Everything about Murghōm in that setting was just a couple of tiny references to it in regards to how it inter-acts with Semphar - all of which come from the Semphar entries. Murghōm, great big nation that it is, didn't even get its own entry in the Hordelands setting booklets, which I always found bizzare.
Nymrohd 07-03-08, 06:59 PM	The cities of Murghom got references.
Lord Karsus 07-03-08, 08:03 PM	-Three pages for entire regions really isn't that much. You have to squeeze in regional histories, city histories, cultures, peoples, structures, and all of that kind of stuff into three pages. Three.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 07-03-08, 11:28 PM	Seemed to be something of an appeal to shock value to me... very boring. Just seems like they felt they had to go way over the top to tell us just how very evil and despicable this place was... showed too much monster I guess. I agree. And a shop called "I Change"? Stupid.
Mr_Miscellany 07-03-08, 11:36 PM	Ahem...this won't be easy. I agree. And a shop called "I Change"? Stupid. I agree. :eek: ::::::::::::::::::::::::: Well, if their goal was to tell DMs to make it wild and nasty in Athkatla, they sure hit the nail on the head.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 07-04-08, 12:21 AM	Ahem...this won't be easy. I agree. :eek: C'mon, it's easier than you're making it out to be.:P
18DELTA 07-04-08, 01:49 AM	It sounds like Athkatla has become the Realms version of Grand Theft Auto. :( -Vice City! :rolleyes: Tieflings are kewl like Hellboy now. :rolleyes: 18DELTA ;)
Mr_Miscellany 07-04-08, 01:53 AM	w00t! I like Grand Theft Auto. Guess I'm going to have to impose some culture shock on my players. :evillaugh
JohnLynch 07-04-08, 01:54 AM	I so very much hope it is just an early draft.I don't. Yes some things are quite silly (I Change), but beyond the light-heartedness is an extremely interesting setting. I don't think I'd advise any of my players to start from here (unless they want to play a Drizzt), but its got quite a bit of potential to add tough moral decisions to a campaign. Of course if you prefer clear-cut heroic campaigns that's not going to be all that fun and could definitely be over the top. But with all of FR to play in, I'm sure there's room for both heroic players and those who like a bit of grey areas.
18DELTA 07-04-08, 02:14 AM	w00t! I like Grand Theft Auto. Guess I'm going to have to impose some culture shock on my players. :evillaugh -So you are going to have AK's in the Realms? :D 18DELTA ;)
Mr_Miscellany 07-04-08, 03:55 AM	-So you are going to have AK's in the Realms? :D [/B]Yup. Athkatlan Kutters. Short, one-handed inverse blades with a serrated edge made for quick disembowelment and jagged throat cuts. Cheaply made and quite common throughout Amn, they are the blade of choice for any self-respecting never do well on the hardscrabble streets of Athkatla. ;)
18DELTA 07-04-08, 04:26 PM	Yup. Athkatlan Kutters. Short, one-handed inverse blades with a serrated edge made for quick disembowelment and jagged throat cuts. Cheaply made and quite common throughout Amn, they are the blade of choice for any self-respecting never do well on the hardscrabble streets of Athkatla. ;) -:D 18DELTA ;)
Mr_Miscellany 07-04-08, 05:04 PM	Now I just have to figure out how to include the number 47 in their description..... ;) (apologies to Markus for the off-topicness....)
Stigger 07-04-08, 08:46 PM	"Inspected by 47" tags on the blades? :D
GreenKnight 07-04-08, 08:48 PM	AK +47?
Lord Karsus 07-04-08, 08:52 PM	-+47? Someone's :censored:ed.
Shemeska the Marauder 07-05-08, 12:32 AM	Regarding Lolth becoming a Greater Power. Do you refer to that Dragon article (be Shemeska ... who did not speak of the Realms specifically) or has there been any new developement? I should point out that in that article, I was referring to the Realms events, and speaking with the assumption of a single Lolth within a singular multiverse.
Lord Karsus 07-05-08, 01:32 AM	...and speaking with the assumption of a single Lolth within a singular multiverse. -As it should be.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 07-06-08, 05:21 PM	I don't. Yes some things are quite silly (I Change), but beyond the light-heartedness is an extremely interesting setting. You call it "light-hearted"?
JohnLynch 07-06-08, 09:53 PM	You call it "light-hearted"?Yes, the light-hearted nature of the writing for a fairly dark region. What do you call it?
Lord Karsus 07-06-08, 10:21 PM	-When reading about the Holocaust, I'd find it in bad taste if someone inserted a joke about whatever somewhere. Such "differences in tone" often serves to harm literature, not help it.
JohnLynch 07-06-08, 10:48 PM	Such "differences in tone" often serves to harm literature, not help it.I was too busy learning abotu this city then to pay much attention to the writing style. Although I do agree that the light-heartedness may have been better served in another city.
18DELTA 07-06-08, 11:31 PM	Now I just have to figure out how to include the number 47 in their description..... -AK-1479's ;) :D 18DELTA :P
Lord Karsus 07-07-08, 12:03 AM	I was too busy learning abotu this city then to pay much attention to the writing style. Although I do agree that the light-heartedness may have been better served in another city. -It's not a problem with writing style per se (though, others have taken exception to that, for whatever reason. Truthfully, I only skimmed the article, so...), but the...Well, I don't know what to call it. That.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 07-07-08, 12:44 AM	Yes, the light-hearted nature of the writing for a fairly dark region. What do you call it? That's for me to know, and for you to find out.:P
Lord Karsus 07-07-08, 09:45 PM	-Can I know?
MarkusTay63 07-07-08, 10:03 PM	(apologies to Markus for the off-topicness....)No apologies neccessary - this thread got derailed months ago. ;) Delta was onto something (he has his moments :P ) - why not say the current design of the Athkatlan Kutters was first developed and used in 1447, and has seen widespread-usage ever since. So their full name would be Athkatlan Kutters - series 1447, or just AK-47's for short. :D I may just borrow that BTW - my two teenage sons are big GTA fans, and they'd enjoy that. They'd fit in well with the semi-automatic slingshot invented by that Gnome, Uzi. :dancin:
MerrikCale 07-07-08, 10:09 PM	Murghom got tons of space in the hordelands supplement:) (I adore that supplement) . are we talking about the boxed set and why do you love it?
Lord Karsus 07-07-08, 10:16 PM	I may just borrow that BTW - my two teenage sons are big GTA fans, and they'd enjoy that. They'd fit in well with the semi-automatic slingshot invented by that Gnome, Uzi. :dancin: -What about DaRoni? -I wonder what ever became of DaRoni...I really hope he died an excruciatingly painful death...
MarkusTay63 07-07-08, 10:31 PM	I heard he finally built an effigy of himself and called it "Mecha-Daroni". :dancin: Besides, you know about my Gnomes - short, big-nosed businesmen who always know how to weasel the best deal on something. Of course one of them created the 'Uzi' semi-automatic Slingshot. :P
Lord Karsus 07-07-08, 10:34 PM	I heard he finally built an effigy of himself and called it "Mecha-Daroni". :dancin: -That's not even real funny...I do hope he died a horribly painful death, though... Besides, you know about my Gnomes - short, big-nosed businesmen who always know how to weasel the best deal on something. -Sounds oddly familiar...I just can't place my finger on it...
18DELTA 07-07-08, 10:38 PM	No apologies neccessary - this thread got derailed months ago. ;) Delta was onto something (he has his moments :P ) - why not say the current design of the Athkatlan Kutters was first developed and used in 1447, and has seen widespread-usage ever since. So their full name would be Athkatlan Kutters - series 1447, or just AK-47's for short. :D I may just borrow that BTW - my two teenage sons are big GTA fans, and they'd enjoy that. They'd fit in well with the semi-automatic slingshot invented by that Gnome, Uzi. :dancin: -:cloud9: :ayyyy!: :cloud9: -Now if I could only figure out how to have 'Rocket Propelled Grenades' in the Forgotten Realms?(3.5 for those at home) :cool: 18DELTA :D
Lord Karsus 07-07-08, 10:40 PM	-Now if I could only figure out how to have 'Rocket Propelled Grenades' in the Forgotten Realms?(3.5 for those at home) :cool: -Easy. Delayed Blast Fireballs/Fireballs imbued on the tips of arrows/spears/darts.
Stigger 07-08-08, 01:50 AM	Fireball with delay spell metamagic applied for 1 round on an adamantine tipped arrow fired from a composite longbow...
Valgard 07-08-08, 11:24 AM	-:cloud9: :ayyyy!: :cloud9: -Now if I could only figure out how to have 'Rocket Propelled Grenades' in the Forgotten Realms?(3.5 for those at home) :cool: 18DELTA :D Well, I still have "RPG" in the Realms. :D
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 07-08-08, 12:44 PM	Well, I still have "RPG" in the Realms. :D :rimshot:
18DELTA 07-08-08, 12:48 PM	-Figures, Arcane Archer. Should have know the Elves would be the 'Al Quada'(sp) of the Realms. I wonder when the 'Eldreth Valuthra'(sp) will start wagon bombings in Cormyr. :D 18DELTA :P
MarkusTay63 07-08-08, 02:33 PM	Believe it or not, I STILL haven't read the Amn article. I guess I really DON'T care about the future of FR, huh? :( Reading those Realmslore pieces is like going to the dentist - I know I have to, but I put it off as long as possible. Anyway, I did just update the Dambrath entry, based on what little Rich told us, and hopefully I'll have included any Amn material by tonight.
naex 07-08-08, 02:44 PM	It would be really nice if they actually did what they said they would, and give a preview every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Since the last one (about Amn) they haven't given us anything. I am annoyed...
MarkusTay63 07-08-08, 02:46 PM	Wizard of the Coast ALWAYS keeps it's promises... HEY! Why is my nose growing?! :confused:
Stigger 07-08-08, 02:54 PM	Its the parasites in that New York water starting a colony, pay it no mind...
Lord Karsus 07-08-08, 03:28 PM	Believe it or not, I STILL haven't read the Amn article. -I haven't either, so...Being as that you are the moderator of the 4th Edition FAQ thread, you might want to get on top of that, though. ;) Its the parasites in that New York water starting a colony, pay it no mind... -In the future, the West Coast is going to break off from the continent, and float away...
Stigger 07-08-08, 03:33 PM	Continents and land-masses don't often just float away... never as far as I'm aware actually. And even if we do, it'll just be to get away from the parasites in the rest of the country who leech off of California's greatness. :P ;)
Lord Karsus 07-08-08, 03:45 PM	...California's greatness. :P ;) -Such an oxymoron. One of the people I enjoy least is from San Jose.
dimonic 07-08-08, 05:57 PM	Wizard of the Coast ALWAYS keeps it's promises... HEY! Why is my nose growing?! :confused: I may be mistaken - but somehow I took the Mon/Wed/Fri thing to be up to the release of 4e - not 4e-FR. I think we will be lucky to see once weekly updates on the upcoming FR books.
GreenKnight 07-08-08, 06:00 PM	It would be really nice if they actually did what they said they would, and give a preview every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Since the last one (about Amn) they haven't given us anything. I am annoyed... That was specifically in regards to preview articles about 4E during the run up to its release, which they DID do.
naex 07-08-08, 08:41 PM	That was specifically in regards to preview articles about 4E during the run up to its release, which they DID do. Last month, we broke out some Forgotten Realms wordplay. This time, let’s dive a little further into the campaign setting. We mentioned in a past In the Works how core rulebook previews would be published every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday leading up to launch; the preview articles achieved a good level of success in this format, and we plan to do much the same with the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide. Look for a series of preview articles leading into August, showcasing some of the people, places, and threats of the Forgotten Realms yes it doesn't say explicitly that it will be every other day like before, but a series implies more than one or two.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 07-09-08, 04:14 PM	-Can I know? Yes. :) I don't find names like "Odd Candy" and "I Change" to be "light-hearted", I just find them to be stupid. There's plenty of light-heartedness in the Realms that doesn't clash with the setting.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 07-09-08, 04:18 PM	-:cloud9: :ayyyy!: :cloud9: Hey you! GET OFFA MY :censored: CLOUD! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=840QIWq3Ym8):headexplo
18DELTA 07-09-08, 06:04 PM	I don't find names like "Odd Candy" and "I Change" to be "light-hearted", I just find them to be stupid. -Right. This is from the same crew that gave us the...Headless Zhent! :rolleyes: What was it C3-PO said in episode 4...Were DOOMED!!! ;) 18DELTA :P
Stigger 07-09-08, 06:06 PM	Attempts at being clever and witty that just fell far short because the topic they addressed didn't hold much humor to play with in the first place... poor taste I think its called.
18DELTA 07-09-08, 06:06 PM	Hey you! GET OFFA MY :censored: CLOUD! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=840QIWq3Ym8):headexplo -Bad Mario, Bad. :D 18DELTA :P
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 07-09-08, 06:09 PM	-Bad Mario, Bad. :D The King is WORSE. Far, FAR worse... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CVdEOm7iIA&feature=related):eek:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 07-09-08, 06:14 PM	-Right. This is from the same crew that gave us the...Headless Zhent! :rolleyes: You mean "The Zhent Headless Horseman"--"The Headless Zhent" is the more sensible fix done by fans.:)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 07-09-08, 06:15 PM	Attempts at being clever and witty that just fell far short because the topic they addressed didn't hold much humor to play with in the first place... poor taste I think its called. True. "I Change" reminds me of "The Body Shop" in Darkvision (by Bruce Cordell). It was the same type of shop...and yeah, it really was called "The Body Shop".
18DELTA 07-09-08, 06:18 PM	You mean "The Zhent Headless Horseman"--"The Headless Zhent" is the more sensible fix done by fans.:) -Cause the only good Zhent is a Headless Zhent anyways. :D -They even gave us Hawksnarl, and ScorchKettle. :P Are you a ScorchKettle Rinonalyrna? :cool: 18DELTA :)
Lord Karsus 07-09-08, 06:39 PM	Yes. :) -Thank you. You mean "The Zhent Headless Horseman"--"The Headless Zhent" is the more sensible fix done by fans.:) http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj240/Dagnirion/20080326_drfe_1full.gif
Lord Karsus 07-09-08, 06:41 PM	Are you a ScorchKettle Rinonalyrna? :cool: 18DELTA :) :ahem:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 07-09-08, 08:46 PM	-Cause the only good Zhent is a Headless Zhent anyways. :D -They even gave us Hawksnarl, and ScorchKettle. :P Are you a ScorchKettle Rinonalyrna? :cool: Only sometimes.:P
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 07-09-08, 08:47 PM	http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj240/Dagnirion/20080326_drfe_1full.gif Yes. :rofl: That pic is funny.
Lord Karsus 07-09-08, 11:36 PM	-My modification really makes it work. -MT, a suggestion. In the 'Organizations/Groups' section, you might want to add Halruaan mercenaries. -Also, when the FRCG is released, I'd suggest someone who buys it "fresh off the press" to post a thread like this, or work with you, to allow those of us who don't buy the book immediately (for all of the reasons) to have a sense of what's going on.
Mr_Miscellany 07-09-08, 11:50 PM	-Also, when the FRCG is released, I'd suggest someone who buys it "fresh off the press" to post a thread like this, or work with you, to allow those of us who don't buy the book immediately (for all of the reasons) to have a sense of what's going on. Which section do you want it in?
Lord Karsus 07-09-08, 11:52 PM	Which section do you want it in? -When/If we have the "Realmslore' section, it'd go there. That'd be something I'd probably have stickied, too.
Mr_Miscellany 07-10-08, 12:05 AM	10-4 I'm sure myself or one of the other overeager types will get the books ASAP once they become available and be ready to answer questions. Maybe we can get your help to keep the thread clear of reactions/opinions so we can maximize the question and answer portion of the front end of the new thread?
Stigger 07-10-08, 11:08 AM	I'd probably suggest making two threads, one for facts, the other for griping... but I really can't see the factual one staying clear of snarling 'debate' (and I use that term very loosely) for too long unless a WizO's there to ride herd on it. I'd love to be proven wrong about that, but...
18DELTA 07-10-08, 02:58 PM	:ahem: -Easy Trigger, down boy, down. ;) :P :D Only sometimes.:P -:smirk: :) 18DELTA :D
18DELTA 07-10-08, 03:01 PM	I'd probably suggest making two threads, one for facts, the other for griping... but I really can't see the factual one staying clear of snarling 'debate' (and I use that term very loosely) for too long unless a WizO's there to ride herd on it. I'd love to be proven wrong about that, but... -You know that the mandatory "DIE 4E DIE" posts will totally derail those threads. :rolleyes: I will have fun watching those train-wrecks. :P 18DELTA :embarrass
Stigger 07-10-08, 03:07 PM	Yeah, I know, but hope springs eternal and all that... Not really, but it sounded at least somewhat positive and optimistic. :D
MarkusTay63 07-10-08, 03:31 PM	-When/If we have the "Realmslore' section, it'd go there. That'd be something I'd probably have stickied, too.Good idea. Also HEAVILY monitoring that thread is also a good idea. I don't want to happen to it what happened to the "ask the Designers" thread. :( Miscelleny is welcome to it, if he wants to take the time. ;) I plan on reading the book (and only purchasing it if I like it - I'll check it out first), but I don't know if I have it in me to do the list of changes - I haven't even bothered to read the Amn article yet!
Alediran 07-10-08, 03:57 PM	For those who'll like to trash 4th edition FR without WizO's you will be able to freely do it on The Vault. Pro-4ed FR people is advised to stay away from it unless you have a death wish :D
MarkusTay63 07-10-08, 04:16 PM	I've seen only two pro-4e people over at Paizo (geeee... I wonder why?), and there are 4-5 that have shown up over at CK. We try to make them feel at home - telling someone not to like something they do like is pretty silly, IMHO. I would expect us to do much the same over at The Vault, Alediran. If someone comes there asking questions, because 4e has left so much unanswered, then we should be polite and help them. All the material that will eventually be available there will be for everyone, not just 3e players. If they go there to start fights (like a troll), then by all means we should show them the door. Enlightening the new players to the wonders of the old Realms should not just be our goal, but our mission. Everyone should have the right to enjoy "the glory that was". ;)
dimonic 07-10-08, 05:36 PM	For those who'll like to trash 4th edition FR without WizO's you will be able to freely do it on The Vault. So the vault is some place else where people trash 4e? Pro-4ed FR people is advised to stay away from it unless you have a death wish :D Or the wish to be assailed by poor grammar ;).
Lord Karsus 07-10-08, 06:32 PM	Maybe we can get your help to keep the thread clear of reactions/opinions so we can maximize the question and answer portion of the front end of the new thread? -Can't, because (I'm assuming) you'd be continually editing/modifying the original post, as you read the book. The only way the above would work was if it was locked (which wouldn't allow YOU [or whoever else] to modify the original post), or purged of posts daily (which actually takes about a day or two). -You know that the mandatory "DIE 4E DIE" posts will totally derail those threads. :rolleyes: I will have fun watching those train-wrecks. :P 18DELTA :embarrass -Truth be told, I don't believe that anyone makes such mindless posts anymore. When people cite their dislike, it's intelligent.
Lord Karsus 07-10-08, 06:33 PM	For those who'll like to trash 4th edition FR without WizO's you will be able to freely do it on The Vault. Pro-4ed FR people is advised to stay away from it unless you have a death wish :D -That's...probably not the best policy. Or the wish to be assailed by poor grammar ;). -Pretty good for someone with English as a second language, huh?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 07-10-08, 06:34 PM	We try to make them feel at home - telling someone not to like something they do like is pretty silly, IMHO. I agree with that. I wouldn't want someone doing that to me. If I react well to something, no one is going to convince me I "had the wrong reaction". Sames goes for stuff I react poorly too.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 07-10-08, 06:36 PM	-Truth be told, I don't believe that anyone makes such mindless posts anymore. When people cite their dislike, it's intelligent. Yeah, it's only every once in a while that someone posts like that (and I'm on these forums pretty often, so I know).
XHereticX 07-10-08, 06:38 PM	Blatant, unintelligent posts only weaken your point, and its best you don't make them. If you have no point however, feel free.:D
Lord Karsus 07-10-08, 06:56 PM	Blatant, unintelligent posts only weaken your point, and its best you don't make them. If you have no point however, feel free.:D -That's the point that people who simply write "DIE 4e DIE", or "Stop whining" have. None. They're dull. Unsharpened.
XHereticX 07-10-08, 07:01 PM	-That's the point that people who simply write "DIE 4e DIE", or "Stop whining" have. None. They're dull. Unsharpened. Either that or the existance of 4e just threw them into a mindless rage (4gottenrealms rage mythal anyone?).
Alediran 07-10-08, 07:07 PM	It's just to blow steam, and if I ever do that is only going to be a private (invisible) section.
XHereticX 07-10-08, 07:55 PM	It's just to blow steam, and if I ever do that is only going to be a private (invisible) section. Hell, if your gonna do that just make a blog.:)
MerrikCale 07-10-08, 10:25 PM	-That's the point that people who simply write "DIE 4e DIE", or "Stop whining" have. None. They're dull. Unsharpened. oh stop whining will ya
Lord Karsus 07-10-08, 10:46 PM	oh stop whining will ya -Ho, ho, ho you're so funny... -MT, I know you like your friend Hubudai there, and I just want to let you know that he's mentioned in the novel Sentinel Spire. So far, it seems like a very good book. Though it takes place in the present, I'll let you know if there's anything that happens that seems like it'll feed into the new stuff.
JohnLynch 07-10-08, 10:50 PM	-Truth be told, I don't believe that anyone makes such mindless posts anymore. When people cite their dislike, it's intelligent.Not really. I can point to a couple of posts where someone simply says "I don't like X" in the past couple of days and that's the extent of their post. I wouldn't have noticed except they said it not once or twice, but several times. In the same thread.
Lord Karsus 07-10-08, 10:53 PM	Not really. I can point to a couple of posts where someone simply says "I don't like X" in the past couple of days and that's the extent of their post. I wouldn't have noticed except they said it not once or twice, but several times. In the same thread. -That's considered 'intelligent'. There's words, there's proper (hopefully) conjugation, and sentence structure, but most of all: there's point. "DIE 4e DIE", or "Stop whining, XYZ" is does not have a point.
JohnLynch 07-10-08, 10:57 PM	-That's considered 'intelligent'. There's words, there's proper (hopefully) conjugation, and sentence structure, but most of all: there's point. "DIE 4e DIE", or "Stop whining, XYZ" is does not have a point.Guess we have different standards then. When I say something is an intelligent post, I mean it brings something new to the thread. Saying the same thing multiple times by the same person without articulating the reasoning in different ways doesn't bring anything new. I consider it threadcrapping.
Mr_Miscellany 07-11-08, 12:04 AM	I consider it threadcrapping. That'd be my take on it as well. Comports well with reasonable expectations of how people should behave in conversations held in the real world, too. For those who'll like to trash 4th edition FR without WizO's you will be able to freely do it on The Vault. Pro-4ed FR people is advised to stay away from it unless you have a death wish :D I wouldn't say it's that bad over there (yet). I've been on your forums for a while now and they've proven very useful and helpful. I encourage others to give The Vault a spin.
Mr_Miscellany 07-11-08, 12:11 AM	Hey Karsus, -Can't, because (I'm assuming) you'd be continually editing/modifying the original post, as you read the book. Sorry, I meant more of a header at the top of the thread (posted by you, a VCL or a Wiz0) basically telling everyone in a polite but firm manner that -for this thread only- people are free to do two things: 1) Pose questions about what's in the book. 2) Post specific answers in response to those questions about the book. All side-conversations and immediate responses (of which there will be plenty, no doubt) are to be started in new threads. Do you think with a little help in pre-planning from the Wiz0's we could do something like this? That way we can maximize inquiries and get answers to them as quickly as possible, while also eliminating thread-clutter so people can access and find the answers as quickly as possible. This should also let result in less repeat questions. What do you think?
Nobunaga Oda 07-11-08, 12:26 AM	I am totally pro 4gotten realms hehe...Except for one "tiny detail": Dragonborns. Why oh why do I have to play with Dragonborns? Yes I can just rule 0 out of my gaming table but if I am a player in a Living in Forgotten Realms I will have to face these scaleies. Ugh...At least Orcs will be more than cannon fodder I guess. I should play a Full blooded Orc just to spite any guy trying to play Dragonborn in this living in forgotten realms sections.
Therise 07-11-08, 12:41 AM	What does "threadcrapping" and this (seems like endless) complaining about the deep content (or lack thereof) in other peoples' posts have to do with this thread topic?
Therise 07-11-08, 12:43 AM	... I should play a Full blooded Orc just to spite any guy trying to play Dragonborn in this living in forgotten realms sections. Might be fun to play an orc. I've been thinking about that myself. :)
JohnLynch 07-11-08, 12:45 AM	What does "threadcrapping" and this (seems like endless) complaining about the deep content (or lack thereof) in other peoples' posts have to do with this thread topic?I thought this thread had given up on any semblance of a topic long ago? After all, even Lord Karsus is posting off-topic posts in response to other people. After all... Might be fun to play an orc. I've been thinking about that myself. :)What does that have to do with the topic of listing solid information on the FR changes?
Therise 07-11-08, 12:57 AM	I thought this thread had given up on any semblance of a topic long ago? After all, even Lord Karsus is posting off-topic posts in response to other people. After all... Ah, I see. What does that have to do with the topic of listing solid information on the FR changes? At least it's related to 4E D&D, where one might play an orc PC, and not personal opinion of other peoples' posting habits.
JohnLynch 07-11-08, 01:22 AM	I should play a Full blooded Orc just to spite any guy trying to play Dragonborn in this living in forgotten realms sections.Why play something specifically to make a game less fun for another player? :confused:
GreenKnight 07-11-08, 01:50 AM	Why oh why do I have to play with Dragonborns? Yes I can just rule 0 out of my gaming table but if I am a player in a Living in Forgotten Realms I will have to face these scaleies. Ugh...At least Orcs will be more than cannon fodder I guess. I should play a Full blooded Orc just to spite any guy trying to play Dragonborn in this living in forgotten realms sections. Why would anyone, Dragonborn player or otherwise, care a whit about you playing an orc if you've got the card for it? :confused:
Alediran 07-11-08, 09:33 AM	I wouldn't say it's that bad over there (yet). I'm not going to allow any kind of flamewar between both sides. The Vault will be the keeper of 3ed and older FR lore, then most of those flammers will be people that is anti-FR and therefore useless to The Vault comunity anyways. I've been on your forums for a while now and they've proven very useful and helpful. I encourage others to give The Vault a spin. The idea behind The Vault is do what WotC could never do: a complete compilation of Realmslore indexed for fast searching and available to all in a way that every person who had any problem with tracking realmslore can't complain. That Realmslore is also going to be perfectly smoothed and free of continuity errors (as much as we can) and all new material will be checked first by somebody who knows about the subject so any new continuity error is fixed before it's published. And I'll use this post to announce a new board inside the Campaign Customization section called Out of This World.
Lord Karsus 07-11-08, 01:07 PM	Sorry, I meant more of a header at the top of the thread (posted by you, a VCL or a Wiz0) basically telling everyone in a polite but firm manner that -for this thread only- people are free to do two things: 1) Pose questions about what's in the book. 2) Post specific answers in response to those questions about the book. All side-conversations and immediate responses (of which there will be plenty, no doubt) are to be started in new threads. -That's easy enough to do. A link to a separate thread for conversation can be included in the original post, and every so often, I'll have a WizO move any conversation that pops up in the 'Posting' thread to be moved to the 'Discussion' thread.
Nobunaga Oda 07-11-08, 05:41 PM	Why would anyone, Dragonborn player or otherwise, care a whit about you playing an orc if you've got the card for it? Why play something specifically to make a game less fun for another player? Not to make the game un fun to them, but just a way to say "Remember when the "strong guy race" used to be a fantasy archetype and not your fursona? Good times."
XHereticX 07-11-08, 08:53 PM	Guess we have different standards then. When I say something is an intelligent post, I mean it brings something new to the thread. Saying the same thing multiple times by the same person without articulating the reasoning in different ways doesn't bring anything new. I consider it threadcrapping. Forgive my arrogance, but to put it this way: people that type like this without any capitalization oftn mispelt thngs and rushing the typijg and bad grammar too yes with out any punctuation and voicing opinion like trolls like i hatz $e usualy are threatcrapers. Forgive me for that horrible demonstration:)
Mr_Miscellany 07-12-08, 03:43 PM	Hello LK, -That's easy enough to do. A link to a separate thread for conversation can be included in the original post, and every so often, I'll have a WizO move any conversation that pops up in the 'Posting' thread to be moved to the 'Discussion' thread. That sounds really awesome. Hrmm.....the FRCG will be released at GenCon 2008, right? I think I'm going to need to bring my laptop and make sure my room has a good internet connection. Which reminds me: We can post information gleaned from Ed and company at the Secrets of the Realms seminar for everyone here as well (on a separate thread of course).
MarkusTay63 07-12-08, 04:21 PM	I SO wish I hadn't changed my mind about going. :( Anyhow, this was my thread, and I consider it fully crapped-on, and beyond repair. :P
Lord Karsus 07-12-08, 04:53 PM	Hrmm.....the FRCG will be released at GenCon 2008, right? http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/confused/confused0024.gif
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 07-13-08, 12:12 AM	I am totally pro 4gotten realms hehe...Except for one "tiny detail": Dragonborns. Dragonborn. Why oh why do I have to play with Dragonborns? Yes I can just rule 0 out of my gaming table but if I am a player in a Living in Forgotten Realms I will have to face these scaleies. That's life.
MarkusTay63 07-13-08, 12:20 AM	Yes, I too am not overly fond of WotC's Draconian methods of changing the Realms. ;)
Lord Karsus 07-13-08, 12:22 AM	Yes, I too am not overly fond of WotC's Draconian methods of changing the Realms. ;) :rimshot:
XHereticX 07-13-08, 12:23 AM	Yes, I too am not overly fond of WotC's Draconian methods of changing the Realms. ;) There should be a living FR campaign called Die Scaley Die where adventurers all have to go into Tyrmather and kill as many Dragonborn as possible to earn status. It could be like an event in an MMO and would attracts lots of MMO fans.;)
Therise 07-13-08, 12:28 AM	There should be a living FR campaign called Die Scaley Die where adventurers all have to go into Tyrmather and kill as many Dragonborn as possible to earn status. It could be like an event in an MMO and would attracts lots of MMO fans.;) Hm... you'd have to make the rep from badges really good, i.e. tradeable for purplez lewts! Otherwise, people would be like, "shoot dawg, that's a waste of time... like Argent Dawn rep". Heh! :P Bring on the level-dependent, rep-dependent purpz lewts! rawrs! ;)
MarkusTay63 07-13-08, 12:29 AM	Just for kicks we could get a 40-man raid group together of lev one nakit gnomes and go after them. :dancin:
XHereticX 07-13-08, 12:31 AM	Just for kicks we could get a 40-man raid group together of lev one nakit gnomes and go after them. :dancin: I call shotgun!!!:D
Therise 07-13-08, 12:32 AM	Just for kicks we could get a 40-man raid group together of lev one nakit gnomes and go after them. :dancin: WOOT! Lvl 1 nekkid gnomez raid on the kingdom of Many Arrows... pst me for raid add! We leaves in 10minz! :evillaugh
XHereticX 07-13-08, 12:34 AM	WOOT! Lvl 1 nekkid gnomez raid on the kingdom of Many Arrows... pst me for raid add! We leaves in 10minz! :evillaugh Omgdz, we can do thz all nigh. I gotz de Mountan Doo and ze Jolt. My characterz iz fitted wit all the latez modz doze horde ***ers r gonna pay. LEEERRROOOYYY JJJEEENNNKKIIINNSSSS
MarkusTay63 07-13-08, 12:35 AM	I'll get my tier three pally just for heals...
Lord Karsus 07-13-08, 12:41 AM	-Alright, enough...:rolleyes:
Stigger 07-13-08, 12:43 AM	Spoilsport...
Therise 07-13-08, 12:46 AM	I'll get my tier three pally just for heals... Rez me plz! Teh Karsus gots me and stole me badge! ;) :P ok ok, I'll stop, hehe! :)
MarkusTay63 07-13-08, 12:47 AM	He's due for a PK. :devil:
Stigger 07-13-08, 12:50 AM	Shouldn't that be due? :P Wonder how many typos the 4e FRCG is going to have, just to be a tiny bit on topic...
XHereticX 07-13-08, 12:53 AM	Rez me plz! Teh Karsus gots me and stole me badge! ;) :P ok ok, I'll stop, hehe! :) Ahh, manz downz, manz downz. Get de priez over and rezurec must take downz boz Karsus and get my phat lewt.
Lord Karsus 07-13-08, 12:54 AM	Wonder how many typos the 4e FRCG is going to have, just to be a tiny bit on topic... -Apparently, some other people were complaining about the seeming lack of editorial skills displayed concerning spelling and grammar in the core books, so...
MarkusTay63 07-13-08, 12:56 AM	LK dropped the Sword of Thousand Truths - Anyone need it, or should we just roll? He wasn't so tough, once we dodged all those falling cities. :P
Stigger 07-13-08, 12:57 AM	Spelling and grammar don't usually bother me too much from some companies, but others it aggravates me no end. I usually expect better from WotC for some reason though, so it probably would bother me quite a bit...
XHereticX 07-13-08, 12:58 AM	LK dropped the Sword of Thousand Truths - Anyone need it, or should we just roll? He wasn't so tough, once we dodged all those falling cities. :P Dude, I got this totally pwnz armorz from him called Karsus's Divine Body Avatar Guard. I think all these items are part of a tier 6 set.;)
Therise 07-13-08, 01:00 AM	LK dropped the Sword of Thousand Truths - Anyone need it, or should we just roll? He wasn't so tough, once we dodged all those falling cities. :P Dang, I rollt a 1... phail!
MarkusTay63 07-13-08, 01:00 AM	That armor is pretty cool, but I can't help but notice the over-sized Helmet... I wonder why... ;) Anyone want the Karsestone? Its BOP....
MarkusTay63 07-14-08, 05:15 PM	Added entries for Titania and the Queen of Air and Darkness, based on an NDA mentioned by Ed. The NDA was in direct relation to the Realms, so 'assumptions' are exceptable in this regard. ;) I still need to bring myself to read that Amn article... :(
Stigger 07-14-08, 05:54 PM	Just get it over with... you'll feel better afterwards, rather than having it loom over your head. Either you'll hate it and feel justified for hating the new Realms, or you'll love it and get some new hope. Indifference is possible as well I suppose, but I kinda doubt it... now hop to old-timer. :P :D
Lord Karsus 07-14-08, 07:23 PM	-It's already been confirmed, MT, that Titania and Oberon are out. They've been replaced in the Seelie Court by two new individuals who we know nothing about, but sound very similar. Let me go find their names... -King Oran and Queen Tiandra, that was their names. If I recall correctly, Rich said that Titania and Oberon were "removed" because they too much resembled actual, Shakespearian fantasy, which is something the designers did not want.
Stigger 07-14-08, 07:25 PM	Something else to ignore then...
Lord Karsus 07-15-08, 01:22 PM	-We have confirmation that Gond will continue to exist, with- so it seems- very little change.
MarkusTay63 07-15-08, 01:26 PM	-King Oran and Queen Tiandra, that was their names. If I recall correctly, Rich said that Titania and Oberon were "removed" because they too much resembled actual, Shakespearian fantasy, which is something the designers did not want.You ARE kidding, right? They didn't even bother to change the names all that much. :bored: Its the same two people - they just switched a couple of letters around (visions of Kara-Tur and Maztica swirling through my brain ATM). Ed Greenwood has stated he has an NDA concerning them, pertaining to FR, which means they WILL be used, even if the designers thought switching a couple of letters around was 'being creative'. And besides, we already have confirmation that certain deities/beings are known under different names on Toril.
Lord Karsus 07-15-08, 01:28 PM	You ARE kidding, right? -No, not at all. They didn't even bother to change the names all that much. :bored: -No, they didn't. That just recently dawned on me, when someone mentioned that. Hell, 'Tiandra' and 'Titania' have the same amount of letters. And Ed Greenwood has stated he has an NDA concerning them, pertaining to FR, which means they WILL be used, even if the designers thought switching a couple of letters around was 'being creative'. -I believe that they were mentioned specifically in relation to the Forgotten Realms. I'd have to go back and check that part, though.
Nymrohd 07-15-08, 01:28 PM	What on earth is the reason of all these NDAs on realmslore, I will never understand.
Lord Karsus 07-15-08, 01:30 PM	What on earth is the reason of all these NDAs on realmslore, I will never understand. -Because of all of the various ongoing plots, ceased plots, unused information that may or may not be relevant and pertinent, edition changes, various authors...
MarkusTay63 07-15-08, 01:31 PM	Its like when we were kids - one of the designers sees something he 'may' use, and cries "I got dibs!" Thats what it amounts to, in the long run, and as per Ed's comments about it, more then half the stuff someone NDA's never gets used - they reserve it, and then forget to ever lift the NDA. Some of them have been sitting around for 15 years... :(
Nymrohd 07-15-08, 01:34 PM	I know . . . but the 100 year time jump should invalidate the majority of the NDAs
MarkusTay63 07-15-08, 01:37 PM	According to Ed Greenwood, NO NDA is invalidated unless it is explicitly lifted by WotC. Ones that never get used get ignored - in no case did WotC or TSR EVER lift an NDA just for the hell of it. You must remember, they are still keeping their options open in regards to the past, so they may need to dust off some of those old NDAs at some point. The novel that ED is working on now, for instance, takes place before the ToT!
Lord Karsus 07-15-08, 02:05 PM	-Yup...
dimonic 07-18-08, 01:28 PM	The RPGA character creation guidelines are out here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=rpga/downloads). Just thought you folks might be interested - they contain some useful references to the Living Forgotten Realms.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 07-18-08, 01:29 PM	The LFR character creation guidelines are out here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=rpga/downloads). Just thought you folks might be interested - they contain some useful tidbits about the realms. Thanks for sharing the link.:)
peteyrock 07-18-08, 01:33 PM	The LFR character creation guidelines are out here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=rpga/downloads). Just thought you folks might be interested - they contain some useful tidbits about the realms. :rofl: That's the first time I've seen the Fist of Emirikol! It's like Wubba Wubba (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzpgAQpcp8o) as a d20!
dimonic 07-18-08, 05:59 PM	Thanks for sharing the link.:) There is also the Drow, Genasi and Swordmage write-ups - good stuff, let me tell you!
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 07-18-08, 08:00 PM	There is also the Drow, Genasi and Swordmage write-ups - good stuff, let me tell you! Yeah, I saw those.:)
Calabask 07-18-08, 08:04 PM	Erlkazar - Unknown, attacked by 'flying fortress' sometime between 3e-4e I believe this is covered in the book The Obsidian Ridge in The Citadels Series.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 07-18-08, 08:20 PM	Also, Obsidian Ridge actually takes place in the 1360s, not the "transition era".
18DELTA 07-19-08, 03:35 PM	Oh, now what happened to Tyr? I know Helm was slain by Tyr but what happened to Tyr? I must have missed something somewhere. "DC 30: Tymora has seduced dozens of deities and countless mortals over the centuries, but has remained curiously solemn and chaste since the death of her consort, Tyr." http://www.players.theurulives.com/Cormyr.jpg -Tyr is dead per BRJ's Backdrop article on Cormyr! :D -Another one bites the dust, another one bites the dust hey, hey. Another one bites the dust. :P -Thanks Greenknight. :P -Added quote about Tyr, and added JL's map. 18DELTA :rofl:
MarkusTay63 07-20-08, 03:36 AM	Also, Obsidian Ridge actually takes place in the 1360s, not the "transition era".Hmmmm... are you sure about that? They said there would be no more 3e novels (although that really sets it all the way back to the 1e/2e transition period). It seems I am hearing about more and more FR novels coming out that are set 'in the past' (including at least one by Ed). Funny how their plans changed, when they realized the people buying the new setting aren't the fans who have been reading the novels for years. We sorta like our feeling of entitlement. :D
Calabask 07-20-08, 08:09 AM	Yep, she's right, just checked the novel myself, the chapter after the prolouge takes place in 1366, The Year of The Staff. And from what I can see, there is no mention of time moving past that year at all in the book. I'd be willing to bet that all of the Citadels series takes place before 4th Edition, and all the Novel Series with the exception of The Swordmage and some of Salavatores newest books, will finish out in 3rd Edition, Shadowstorm from Paul S Kemp has to come out yet, remember. And Unless Kemp moves time forward 100 years, or has the PCs go though a time gate to get to the 4tth Edtiion era, that book may be a 3rd edition book as well.
MarkusTay63 07-20-08, 11:05 AM	Ah, Okay... I had just assumed (because it was new) that it would be set during the transition period. Thanks for the correction - I'll hvave to update that later (on my way out now). BTW, the Thay series starts out in the 3e period, and then works it's way to the new 4e period (2nd book being transition, and I assume the 3rd will be in the new campaign period). So I know at least one (series) spans the gap. ;)
Calabask 07-20-08, 11:17 AM	That seems likely, regardless what happens with Shadowrealm, I'm of the opinion it will be a great book like the rest of the series and the Erevis Cale Trilogy, I really need to hunt down kemps other FR novels to read.
Lord Karsus 07-20-08, 06:33 PM	Hmmmm... are you sure about that? -Yes. She's 100% correct. They said there would be no more 3e novels (although that really sets it all the way back to the 1e/2e transition period). -And yet, the newest book (I believe) Sentinielspire (which was a very good book, and MT, you might like it extra, due to it's mentions of the Endless Wastes, and lore on the Imaskari), takes place: In the past (1374 DR) of the current present (1375 DR), that will soon be the past (being as that 1479 will soon be the present) in the future (when the FRCG is released). Hows that, eh? :cool:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 07-23-08, 01:37 PM	-Yes. She's 100% correct. As usual.:P ;)
Lord Karsus 07-23-08, 01:55 PM	-As usual, yes.
MarkusTay63 07-23-08, 01:58 PM	-In the past (1374 DR) of the current present (1375 DR), that will soon be the past (being as that 1479 will soon be the present) in the future (when the FRCG is released). Hows that, eh? :cool: Ugh... I hate the "new world order". :( This is exactly the kind of thing I am saying will be the biggest (boards) problem with 4e that we really didn't see with prior edition changes - every question much be based in the context of which time-period you are playing in.
Lord Karsus 07-23-08, 02:03 PM	Ugh... I hate the "new world order". :( -What, being in the past of the current present that will soon be the past in the future isn't working out for you? This is exactly the kind of thing I am saying will be the biggest (boards) problem with 4e that we really didn't see with prior edition changes - every question much be based in the context of which time-period you are playing in. -Well, when people want information about the past, they specifically mention it. When they are talking about homebrew stuff in their own campaigns, they mention it. In the soon-to-be-present future, people are going to need to specify, when they're talking about. It's no biggie, really.
Quarks_Bar 07-23-08, 05:28 PM	Blackstaff Arunson - Sacrificed himself to save others, most definately permanently dead Khelben Arunson - the real one is still living in GH, AFAIK ;) Excuse my ignorance, but what's this about? Did he split in two and half of him go to Oerth, or am I reading this really wrong?
Stigger 07-23-08, 05:50 PM	Nope, was his grandson, "Ravenscloak" I believe he went by, that MT is talking about that's on Greyhawk.
Spyy22 07-23-08, 10:28 PM	I browsed this board a bit, I am looking for the Corresponding books to all of these happenings, I avidly read the Drizzt series and am searching for the first elminster book, what are some other series that feed into the happenings of the realms? does any have a site or can any even list the first books of each different series? If you can it would be much appreciated. trying to catch up to all the happenings from the begining. seriously have no idea what this spell plague business is and want to not get blindsided by changes again in the future.
Serphet 07-23-08, 10:39 PM	I browsed this board a bit, I am looking for the Corresponding books to all of these happenings, I avidly read the Drizzt series and am searching for the first el minster book, what are some other series that feed into the happenings of the realms? does any have a site or can any even list the first books of each different series? If you can it would be much appreciated. trying to catch up to all the happenings from the beginning. seriously have no idea what this spell plague business is and want to not get blindsided by changes again in the future. well a grand history of the realms is a good guide book to have on hand (i actually use it daily while in this very forum :P ) for Elminster, there was recently published The annotated Elminster (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FAnnota ted-Elminster-Collectors%2Fdp%2F0786947993&ei=luqHSMatLoGGsQO99aijBg&usg=AFQjCNGc1JDoIgnrU8zIvRnPyXZVsEPsaw&sig2=Dm75JXByMOEx4JYevsnc8Q). for spellplague info... there was a book just released... though I can't recall it's name (the book where all the gods die) and I think (though am not sure) the latest R.A. Salvatore book (the transitions set) has to do with it. other than that you have to read the D&Di
AskaniPsion 07-24-08, 09:24 PM	Has there been any news on the status of Sehanine in FR 4E? I have seen mention of Selune. I really hope Sehanine is still around and not merged with Selune or if they are merged I hope it is that Selune has been Sehanine the whole time since humans can't pronounce Sehanine :p
MarkusTay63 07-25-08, 12:15 AM	@Spyy22 - go with Serphet's recommendation - The Annotated Elminster. Ed Greenwood's 'storyteller style' takes a litle getting used to, because he takes you down a lot of 'side-paths', but when he gets you there, its all worth it. And you'll know more about the Realms then from anywhere else. :D Also, both Evermeet: Isle of Elves would help with all things Elven, and Blackstaff, because it is also full of little 'glimpses' into the past, and it's just a really good read. Excuse my ignorance, but what's this about? Did he split in two and half of him go to Oerth, or am I reading this really wrong?Stigger's got the right of it. The real Khelben Arunsun went off to Oerth, so his grandfather could masquerade as him (not wanting anyone to realize how old he truly was). The Blackstaff has no real name - his name is literally "Nameless" (Arun's son), and he has taken the identities of others for centuries. The woman who poses as his mother is in actuality his daughter. :eek: I always liked to pretend that Khelben the younger changed his name years ago, and is calling himself Mordenkainen these days. :D
Lord Karsus 07-29-08, 02:52 AM	Has there been any news on the status of Sehanine in FR 4E? I have seen mention of Selune. -We know exactly as much as we knew six months ago.
Lord Karsus 08-03-08, 12:00 AM	Also, both Evermeet: Isle of Elves would help with all things Elven, and Blackstaff, because it is also full of little 'glimpses' into the past, and its just areally good read. -Of course, Elves of Faerūn, as we know, is the best source for all things Elven.
because 08-06-08, 08:05 AM	I don't understand how can all this fuss around Tymora be happening, without Brandobaris showing himself. I believe Tymora and Brandobaris used to have a relation. I hope they are not forgetting Tymora's ties to the halfling pantheon.
MarkusTay63 08-06-08, 09:10 AM	Simple: There is NO Halfling Pantheon. :eek: All non 1-e Halfing Gods will 'go away', and Yondalla will be rolled into the Earthmother (Chauntea). Just my latest prediction - but I've noticed a LOT of their 4e decisions have brought the game back closer to 1e, including the Pantheons (like just having Lolth for the Drow).
because 08-06-08, 11:02 AM	Simple: There is NO Halfling Pantheon. :eek: All non 1-e Halfing Gods will 'goo away', and Yondalla will be rolled into the Earthmother (Chauntea). Just my latest prediction - but I've noticed a LOT of their 4e decisions have brought the game back closer to 1e, including the Pantheons (like just having Lolth for the Drow). You had me crying for a second, but I remember reading this: Rich Baker also mentioned that they are going to retcon minor deities like Clangeddin and Brandobaris. Clangeddin a minor deity? What planet are these designers from? I hope this is confirmed....
MarkusTay63 08-06-08, 11:07 AM	Retcon, as in "he/she was really someone else all along". They aren't going to become minor deities, they are being changed into equivalent human ones... Just like Morradin became Gond. :( Corellon is the ONLY demi-human deity, AFAIK, keeping a seperate identity (not counting Lolth, of course).
because 08-06-08, 11:37 AM	Retcon, as in "he/she was really someone else all along". They aren't going to become minor deities, they are being changed into equivalent human ones... Just like Morradin became Gond. :( Corellon is the ONLY demi-human deity, AFAIK, keeping a seperate identity (not counting Lolth, of course). ... So which god is turning into Brandobaris? :D So far I wasn't thinking the changes weren't that bad, but if they are getting rid of the racial pantheons (more or less) that hurts.
MarkusTay63 08-06-08, 11:47 AM	Yup, pretty much. Certain ones - like maybe Brandobaris - may be hard to retro-fit into another god, so a few may keep their seperate status, and just become 'local gods' (4e's Exarchs). The only other two canon gods that might fit that come to mind are Squelaiche (Leprechauns) and Nathair Sgiathach (Faerie Dragons), and they are far more obscure then Brandobaris, which makes me think they will probably just be rolled into him. Or Phooka (Fey), but he is only canon in Mystara, AFAIK.
because 08-06-08, 12:28 PM	If they are doing away with all the racial gods, Garl Glittergold and Erevan Ilesere come to mind. His dogma certainly isn't to different from Tymora, but than he would have had a relation with himself... or herself... yuck. and.. and.. The whole marriage thing just begs for a trick/prank from Brandobaris.
18DELTA 08-06-08, 01:03 PM	-I know this is off topic. I put a link to this thread in the 4E FR Handy Links Thread. 18DELTA :)
Lord Karsus 08-06-08, 03:18 PM	Corellon is the ONLY demi-human deity, AFAIK, keeping a seperate identity (not counting Lolth, of course). -The power of the Protector! -Sehanine Moonbow might not be changing, either. She is in the 'Core' D&D portfolio, so... -Maybe Selūne is the one who is going to be the "mask"? Who knows...
MarkusTay63 08-06-08, 03:38 PM	Yes, thats what I'm thinking as well. The demi-human gods tend to be older, so I would imagine that it would work the other way around for quite a few of them (at least, that SHOULD be the case, especially for ther Elves). Humans come out of caves; others (more advanced) teach them of the gods. Then they take these gods and build their own religions around them, and when they depict them in 'inspirational art', they begin to appear looking more and more like their followers... Milky White Jesus, anyone? ;) :D
Lord Karsus 08-06-08, 03:42 PM	-The only thing is, it would rip apart the Selūne-Shar creation story. Personally, while I never liked that story, it would cause some things to become "funny".
MarkusTay63 08-06-08, 03:51 PM	Actually, there are already a few canon-bits which make that story appear a bit 'fuzzy' (like the Draconic creation myths). Also, the story changes a little bit each time it's told, and we can't be sure who else besides those two, Ao, and Chauntea were even present (in some versions, it sounds like Lathander had a baby brother that died before he was born!) Anyhow, with everything else they changed to make way for 4e, modifying the Creation myth so Selune becomes Sehanine isn't all that much. Lolth being Shar would be a much worse change, IMHO. :eek: Don't really see that happening, though. (However, BOTH being true would explain their animosity right from the beginning)
Lord Karsus 08-06-08, 04:14 PM	Actually, there are already a few canon-bits which make that story appear a bit 'fuzzy' (like the Draconic creation myths). -I never bought into the myth. When you analyze it using actual evidence, rather than the myth, it begins to unravel.
naex 08-06-08, 04:16 PM	Actually, there are already a few canon-bits which make that story appear a bit 'fuzzy' (like the Draconic creation myths). Also, the story changes a little bit each time it's told, and we can't be sure who else besides those two, Ao, and Chauntea were even present (in some versions, it sounds like Lathander had a baby brother that died before he was born!) Anyhow, with everything else they changed to make way for 4e, modifying the Creation myth so Selune becomes Sehanine isn't all that much. Lolth being Shar would be a much worse change, IMHO. :eek: Don't really see that happening, though. (However, BOTH being true would explain their animosity right from the beginning) The Share-Selune creation myth is just that, a myth, told because primitive humans have a need to explain how things all began. The elves probably have their own story, as do the dragons, dwarves and halflings. Creation in the realms is probably the same as RW, big bang, creation of stars, planets, basic life, evolution, us. (Sorry if I just offended anyones beliefs here, but this is the accepted scientific theory).
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 08-06-08, 06:48 PM	If they are doing away with all the racial gods, Garl Glittergold... Garl Glittergold was "dumped" from the core setting, although that might not happen in the Realms. Who knows at this point?
because 08-07-08, 08:18 AM	Garl Glittergold was "dumped" from the core setting, although that might not happen in the Realms. Who knows at this point? I just thought of that as well. While I like the idea to a certain height that each race has its own vision of a certain god, but doing away with gods really hurts. And I certainly hope that only elves/drow keep god(s) which only belong to them. As they are already to dominant in the stories of forgotten realms to my tastes.
Lord Karsus 08-08-08, 12:13 PM	-MT: Now we know: In the tumult of the Plague Years, Selune finds that she has to concentrate her power to preserve the Gates of the Moon, revealing that Sehanine Moonbow was one of her manifestations. As part of reabsorbing some of the power that she once used to create Mystra, and withdrawing from manifestations such as Sehanine, Selune assumes the strength of a greater god. Several other gods with similar "multiple manifestations" had to do the same: Chauntea and Yondalla, Talos and Gruumsh, a couple of others. OK, now on to table-talk: Why does Sehanine survive in the core pantheon, but not the FR pantheon? The answer is simple: the core pantheon doesn't have Selune. Basically, we weren't going to keep two chaotic good moon goddesses around, so who was manifesting who? Selune is a more central and important figure in the Realms than Sehanine. The FR design team wanted Selune, not Sehanine. On the other hand, Gruumsh and Talos are both one-eyed, chaotic evil gods of destruction. But Gruumsh has a heavier "investment," even in the context of FR, so he stays Gruumsh and reabsorbs Talos. I'm sure the next ten posts will explain what morons we are for thinking we could do something like this, but I'll ask you to consider this first: If you take it as a desired goal to present a smaller, tighter-focused pantheon, it's pretty reasonable to assume that Sehanine is the elven name for Selune, and those two goddesses were always in some way the same being, even though they had separate existences for ages.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 08-08-08, 01:53 PM	LK, thanks for posting that.:)
MarkusTay63 08-08-08, 01:56 PM	-MT: Now we know:Yes... I know... but I saw ALL of that coming, so there's no reason to get upset over it. I will, however, update the FAQ, since I'm sure thats why you posted it here.
Lord Karsus 08-08-08, 02:01 PM	LK, thanks for posting that.:) -You're welcome. Yes... I know... but I saw ALL of that coming, so there's no reason to get upset over it. I will, however, update the FAQ, since I'm sure thats why you posted it here. -Well, I meant that as in there is official confirmation of it now.
MarkusTay63 08-08-08, 02:12 PM	LOL - the only one I didn't already have listed that way was Chauntea/Yondalla. Made some other changes as well - just things I remembered from the last few excerpts off the top of my head - and stuff about Calimshan the LFR guys let slip. I think to do this right I'll have to actually read those last couple of excerpts... Gontal... 'Dragonborn' <shudder>
because 08-10-08, 05:51 PM	@Markus I saw Tashalar was listed as destroyed by the spell plague. Not sure if it's if you mean damaged/ruined or obliterated/disappeared, but in this article they say there's still an entry of the region of it in the book: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=fr/fx20010124b Of course it could say "Tashalar is no more, obliterated by the spell plague" They are also saying the Luiren halfling changed to a bunch of Zealous martial artists... a sacred hin fists area?
Lord Karsus 08-10-08, 07:17 PM	@Markus I saw Tashalar was listed as destroyed by the spell plague. Not sure if it's if you mean damaged/ruined or obliterated/disappeared, but in this article they say there's still an entry of the region of it in the book: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=fr/fx20010124b Of course it could say "Tashalar is no more, obliterated by the spell plague" They are also saying the Luiren halfling changed to a bunch of Zealous martial artists... a sacred hin fists area? -I believe that was coverage of the transition from 2nd to 3rd edition...;)
MarkusTay63 08-10-08, 08:04 PM	Ahhhhh... if ONLY that were an article about the new campaign guide <sigh> The only two of those Chultan Nations still physically present are Samarach and Thindol, as seen HERE (http://markustay.deviantart.com/art/Chult-in-4e-92843445), but it is very doubtful that there is anything approaching a surviving gov't in either of those locals, if even any survivors at all.
18DELTA 08-10-08, 08:29 PM	-Yeah Markus your maps rock. :) 18DELTA :cool:
because 08-11-08, 07:27 AM	-I believe that was coverage of the transition from 2nd to 3rd edition...;) lol thinking I found something others missed
MarkusTay63 08-11-08, 12:27 PM	-Yeah Markus your maps rock. :) 18DELTA :cool: Thak You. Turmish and the Vilhon Reach should be up shortly - 3e of course. I can't start any 4e maps until I know more.
Lord Karsus 08-11-08, 01:29 PM	lol thinking I found something others missed -Hey, it happens. :P
MarkusTay63 08-15-08, 12:19 PM	Just added a link to the 'God List' from RW's thread at the beginning of this. I am currently going through the Huzzah thread and picking it apart for info, so that I can do a right and proper update to this old thread. ;) Cheers --- Mark
Lord Karsus 08-16-08, 12:09 AM	-You really don't have to. I already have the 'Forgotten Realms Changes in 4e' thread. I certainly won't refuse the help, though. ;)
Theordus_Donnerschlag 08-16-08, 07:51 AM	Facts: Gods: Azuth is dead. He is killed by Asmodeus. He absorbed his divne energy to become a greater god. NSCs: Fzoul: He died. Is now banes champion. A demigod.
MarkusTay63 08-16-08, 08:25 AM	-You really don't have to. I already have the 'Forgotten Realms Changes in 4e' thread. I certainly won't refuse the help, though. ;)Actually I'm just going to include a link at the beginning to Derren's Enworld thread - I don't see a point in duplicating his fine work.
Lord Karsus 08-16-08, 01:14 PM	Actually I'm just going to include a link at the beginning to Derren's Enworld thread - I don't see a point in duplicating his fine work. -Mine is better. Seriously. Look at it.
MarkusTay63 08-16-08, 01:16 PM	Now you sound like one of my kids. :P Should I print it out and hang it on my frig? :D ;) EDIT: Where is it? :confused:
Lord Karsus 08-16-08, 01:19 PM	-THIS (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1074154)
JudgeDookie 08-16-08, 02:42 PM	-THIS (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1074154) Damn, dude. I go away for a couple months and come back to this. I just read your spoilers and am already pullin' my hair out. :weep:
Lord Karsus 08-16-08, 02:50 PM	Damn, dude. I go away for a couple months and come back to this. I just read your spoilers and am already pullin' my hair out. :weep: -I hear ya. But, whatever. It is what it is. We've been knowing that there were some drastic changes coming since that first preview article back in, what? January? And, even before that, when the designers began telling us about their goals for the setting in 4e.
JudgeDookie 08-16-08, 02:56 PM	-I hear ya. But, whatever. It is what it is. We've been knowing that there were some drastic changes coming since that first preview article back in, what? January? And, even before that, when the designers began telling us about their goals for the setting in 4e. Yeah! But if they only would have released those other Countdown to the Realms articles, like they promised, I might not feel so used! Hold me, LK!! Hold me!!! :weep:
Lord Karsus 08-16-08, 03:11 PM	Yeah! But if they only would have released those other Countdown to the Realms articles, like they promised, I might not feel so used! -Yeah, well, with the book being released tomorrow, or whatever, I think the likelihood of that is highly doubtful. Hold me, LK!! Hold me!!! :weep: -There, there. It's going to be okay...
JudgeDookie 08-16-08, 03:22 PM	-Yeah, well, with the book being released tomorrow, or whatever, I think the likelihood of that is highly doubtful. Sweet butt hairs of Bejebuz--is it tomorrow??! :uh-huh: uh... Nope. Tuesday. Dammit LK, get me all optimistic and crap! :rant: -There, there. It's going to be okay... Thanks, dude. That Lean On Me song means much more to me now. Thanks.
Lord Karsus 08-16-08, 03:32 PM	Sweet butt hairs of Bejebuz--is it tomorrow??! :uh-huh: uh... Nope. Tuesday. Dammit LK, get me all optimistic and crap! :rant: -Tuesday, then. Whenever. Thanks, dude. That Lean On Me song means much more to me now. Thanks. -Uh...Glad to help. I think.
JudgeDookie 08-16-08, 03:39 PM	:ahem:
MarkusTay63 08-16-08, 04:52 PM	Now you two have me picturing Elminster singing Stand by me in the eye of the Spellplague. I think I need to hear that song right now... :(
JudgeDookie 08-16-08, 05:49 PM	Now you two have me picturing Elminster singing Stand by me in the eye of the Spellplague. I think I need to ear that song right now... :( You do that. Go ear it. Snuggle with it. When you actually hear it, then get back to me. ;) And watch the movie while you are at it. Love that flick.
MarkusTay63 08-16-08, 06:10 PM	Hey! No pointing out my typos! :ahem: Anyhow, I Youtubed' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTS32o8X4pQ&feature=related) it the second I posted that. :D
JudgeDookie 08-16-08, 06:38 PM	Hey! No pointing out my typos! :ahem: Anyhow, I Youtubed' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTS32o8X4pQ&feature=related) it the second I posted that. :D Don't get testy with me, dippy!! :ahem: Especially when you have me watching that f*ckin' YouTube video!
MarkusTay63 08-16-08, 06:40 PM	Doesn't it make you all 'squishy' inside? :)
JudgeDookie 08-16-08, 07:01 PM	Doesn't it make you all 'squishy' inside? :) It makes me sick, you perverted f--...f-...freaky funbag!! Gug! :yuck: