Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Reneshat 11-16-07, 04:07 AM	So yesterday we decided to dust off the old 2ed books and started talking about doing a 2ed run. For multiple reasons, when I think of quintessential D&D, I think 2ed. There are many things I love about d20, and it's primarily what I play now, but still 2ed is D&D to me. Of course, if you are playing a 2ed campaign, there is only one place to set it, and that is the Forgotten Realms. Can anyone think of anything more quintessentially D&D than a 2ed Realms game? I know I can't. So of course, I, as I often do, start pushing for a game set in the Realms. "I'm tired of Greyhawk and World of Grond (the home-brewed world we play in.) We should play in the Forgotten Realms." No budging. "Okay, how about Planescape. We can spend time in all the outerplanes, and even do stints in all the various campaign settings. We'll have an adventure or two in Krynn, Greyhawk, even Ravenloft." They replied, "You just want to play Planescape because that means we would do an adventure or two in Forgotten Realms, and you want to get to play in the Realms in way you can get it." I didn't argue, and they didn't budge. So here we are, about to play 2ed, and I STILL can't get my friends to play in the Realms with me. Life just isn't fair......
Charles Phipps 11-16-07, 04:21 AM	Actually, I'm afraid you're wrong. Second Edition is ADVANCED Dungeons and Dragons. :-) We just sorta regressed in level a bit. So what's their problem with Abber-Toril?
Reneshat 11-16-07, 04:22 AM	Actually, I'm afraid you're wrong. Second Edition is ADVANCED Dungeons and Dragons. :-) We just sorta regressed in level a bit. So what's their problem with Abber-Toril? I'm sure I deserved that, after correcting LK that the average of 2d10 is 11 rather than 10. Their problem is there is too much out there and they don't have the time, energy, or even the materials they feel they need to get the grounding they feel is necessary to play a game in the Realms. "The good thing about Greyhawk, is you can just start playing after reading only a few things. You don't need the whole library of information you need to play in the Realms." That might be a little paraphrased, but not by much. Anyway, this eventually led to an argument about how many box sets there were before 2ed. Neither of us knew, so both of us knew we were guessing, but it turned out I was right and he was wrong.
Charles Phipps 11-16-07, 04:25 AM	I'm sure I deserved that, after correcting LK that the average of 2d10 is 11 rather than 10. Still though, not even 2ed FR? WFT!?! Does God hate me or something? I confess, I've had irrational hatred of gaming worlds in my groups as well. "Hey guys, let's play in Krynn." "No." "Hmmm?" "No." "But....why not?" "Kender." "Oh come on! They're not...." "No."
Stigger 11-16-07, 04:40 AM	You know, I think I've had the exact inverse of that conversation Charles...
Zanan 11-16-07, 10:35 AM	I didn't argue, and they didn't budge. So here we are, about to play 2ed, and I STILL can't get my friends to play in the Realms with me. Life just isn't fair...... Ach well, hit'em with a bargepole and make it look like it was a lilitu or succubus doing it, disguised as a Sune priestess. :evillaugh There's a decent enough Planescape FR adventure called For Duty & Deity (methinks even at the download section), which could actually suit all your needs, for the time being.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-16-07, 12:22 PM	Also, if they are players, why do they need to feel anxiety about the lore? I know it's good to have knowledge for character creation, but they are supposed to roleplay based on the knowledge their characters would have, not the knowledge they have personally.
Craig C. 11-16-07, 12:47 PM	I do have to say, many new D&D'ers are extremely intimidated by the 25+ years of immensely detailed & intricately interlaced FR lore that is often neccessary to have an overview-of in order to play even low-level FR campaigns. A fairly common reaction I get from players is that FR is the campaign of choice for academics, scholars, and "smarty pants" ... while the default Greyhawk setting is easier for quick-&-dirty D&D. I love both settings. Although I do evangelize FR way more than I do Greyhawk.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-16-07, 01:15 PM	I like Greyhawk too. :) By the way, one idea I came across on these boards to help players would be for the DM to type up an information sheet telling the players what they'd need to know for the campaign. If you do that, maybe the players would be more willing to give the FR a try?
Lord Karsus 11-16-07, 02:01 PM	I'm sure I deserved that, after correcting LK that the average of 2d10 is 11 rather than 10. -Indeed, you did. ;)
Fingoldfin 11-16-07, 08:18 PM	Reneshat, You shouldn't try to correct LK. He is the only person to ever cast a 12th level spell. You just can't **** with that. :) :P Wait until after 4e comes out and every one can cast 12th level spells.;)
MarkusTay63 11-16-07, 09:49 PM	Actually, in 4e it will be more like - "Did you just cast a widdle 12th level spell? Awwwww... how cute." So here we are, about to play 2ed, and I STILL can't get my friends to play in the Realms with me. Life just isn't fair......Time to get new friends. ;) Seriuously though, thats just playing into WotC's groundless fears. I can't for the life of me figure out why people would want to play in a world with very little history behind it. You loose the entire feeling of 'immersion'. I'm not just talking about this from the point of view of a 'loremaster', because I would only (barely) count myself one in the last six months. I've played in, and run, FR games since the early 90's, and only bothered to learn about stuff that might be neccessary for the next encounter. I still, to this day, know next to nothing about Waterdeep, because I don't go anywhere near the place (and I own ALL but the most recent sources on it!). I just don't understand people who think they need to know everything. I know next to nothing about Australia or Africa, but yet I can live here on Earth just fine. I confess, I've had irrational hatred of gaming worlds in my groups as well.I would never play In DL either, and I like Kender. I tried it once, and the DM was literally running the adventure OUT OF A NOVEL. We were not allowed to do ANYTHING that went against the story, so basically we just listened to him tell us what our characters did. I think ever since then, I've had an irrational HATRED of all things Krynnish. I can't even bring myself to read one of the novels. :(
Reneshat 11-17-07, 01:23 AM	Okay, so I have a tentative plan that involves beating my friends unconscious with a sap, and then having them listen to a tape interspersing great FR testimonials and lore so that it plays on their subconscious. What do you all think?
Bullet06320 11-17-07, 07:04 AM	Okay, so I have a tentative plan that involves beating my friends unconscious with a sap, and then having them listen to a tape interspersing great FR testimonials and lore so that it plays on their subconscious. What do you all think? use a dicebag, it will get your point across better I've been playing in the Realms for almost 20 years and own almost everything ever printed for them. I don't play anywhere else, a little Planescape, Spelljammer and Ravenloft for flavor occasionally though as well as taking charachters to modern earth once in awhile is fun too. Think of the fun, FR adenvturers in Manhanttan
Craig C. 11-17-07, 12:13 PM	To avoid the FR Lore Overload Syndrome ... you can run a small-scale FR campaign in a geographically limited (or reduced) area. The amount of knowledge needed by the players will be kept to a minimum this way. Just be sure they don't get all "adventury" and decide to start roaming outside that zone. :-) Once the players and DM saturate themselves with the FR Lore intrinsic to that zone of play ... then move on and travel to other parts of Abeir-Toril.
MarkusTay63 11-17-07, 01:29 PM	Although this is actually a story of how I worked things out from the other side of the fence, I still think this can be useful - When my brother-in-law and his little 14 yr old buddies discovered D&D sometime in '88, they of course embraced the 'brand new' setting, Forgotten Realms. I, on the other hand, was a die-hard Greyhawk fanatic and refused to play in that new "dung-heap" (how times have changed ;) ). Anyhow, they taught themselves and played for about a year, but were having problems. They ask me and a fellow who was a friend of my father-in-law (a fellow SCA member) to help them, and he agreed to run things do to his familiarity with FR (he gamed in it). Lets just say things didn't work out well with the other guy... :nonono: Anyhow, they wanted to play in FR, but I only knew GH. I looked at the maps (I had them - I bought EVERYTHING by TSR back then) and found a nice little area I could place The Temple of Elemental Evil. After a tiny bit of research on the area I ran the game and acted as if it were an FR module - they didn't know the difference. Then I placed the Valley of the Mage in my Faerun, and ran them through that. They didn't like Greyhawk, they didn't want to play Greyhawk, but I was feeding them GH just the same. Eventually, as we all learned more about the setting, they became aware of what I was doing, but in the process they learned how to Roleplay and enjoyed themselves. At least three of them run their own games now - all set in the Realms - but I hope they remember their 'GH meeets FR' adventures from the 'old days'. Basically, what I did was just place them nearby the adventure and run them through it - I didn't use any setting-specific lore. You can do the same - just run adventures 'free floating', with no world-attachments (maybe they should just think it's your homebrew). After awhile, as they explore, they will come to realize where they are, but by then they will have learned that FR "doesnt bite".
johnkretzer 11-17-07, 01:35 PM	You can just start them out in a small area of a 'homebrew world'...and not tell them there are in the Realms. Give them a handout to tell them what they know about the local area. Use the FR gods and just past if it off as just being lazy. This easier then sapping them and using brainwashing. Though it always runs the risk of getting you sapped...
Butterface 11-17-07, 07:11 PM	You can just start them out in a small area of a 'homebrew world'...and not tell them there are in the Realms. Give them a handout to tell them what they know about the local area. Use the FR gods and just past if it off as just being lazy. This easier then sapping them and using brainwashing. Though it always runs the risk of getting you sapped... Awesome idea! Let them get invested in their characters before they discover just how similar your "homebrew" really is to FR. . . :plotting:
Alter_Boy 11-17-07, 07:14 PM	I do have to say, many new D&D'ers are extremely intimidated by the 25+ years of immensely detailed & intricately interlaced FR lore that is often neccessary to have an overview-of in order to play even low-level FR campaigns. A fairly common reaction I get from players is that FR is the campaign of choice for academics, scholars, and "smarty pants" ... while the default Greyhawk setting is easier for quick-&-dirty D&D. I love both settings. Although I do evangelize FR way more than I do Greyhawk. I must admit, I like Eberron over Faerun. But I purchased Grand History of the Realms, and I am finally starting to "get" Forgotten Realms. And this is after years of owning the FRCS. The problem is that those 25+ years of backstory are spread across a lot of different sources. Places they should be compiled in (FRCS, PGtF, etc.) are frustratingly vague, as if they expect you to already know who were the founding members of the Harpers. Now that I know more about the organization, I can care more about its goals and why I want to join them.
johnkretzer 11-17-07, 08:56 PM	Awesome idea! Let them get invested in their characters before they discover just how similar your "homebrew" really is to FR. . . :plotting: It is a fun idea...I came up with a plan to start a Dragonstar game this way once... Start off as a regular campaign complete with evil overload...then when the party is on a adventure (probably to invade the evil overlords castle) the invasion happens. When they finaly fave off against the evil overlord he is all depressed and points out their world have just been invaded and taken over. The problem with this you really have to know the players...some would be like this is cool...others would be this sucks...
MarkusTay63 11-17-07, 10:47 PM	Like I said, it worked for me... sort of. I just glued pieces of GH into FR, so they thought they WERE in FR. If you think about it, it really shouldn't come up during an adventure what planet they are on - Player 1: "Die evil Dragon of Faerūn!" Dragon: "I will kill all of you human Torillians, and then go on to take such areas as Cormyr, Waterdeep, and Halrua!" Player 2: "No you shant, foul beast of the Stromhorns, I will kill you and then go after the rest of your evil ken from north of Anauroch!" Dragon: "Ummmm.... I'm NOT from Aunoroch,,, in fact I wasn't born anywhere within the Heartlands... I was born in Dambrath..." Player 1; "Really? I have a cousin from dambrath! Do you know the McKonnehieghs?" Dragon:" I may have eaten one once... sorry." Dwarf: "You ever been to the Great Gorge? Thats where I'm from" Dragon and rest of Party: "Who cares...." Elf: "I've been to Evermeet..." Dragon: "I knew a High Mage from there once... he was a friend of my brother Puff...." You get the idea - no one really discusses locales, so its fairly easy to cover it up , especially if you just use the names a the local towns and villages (ones that you make up, of course). Once they go to a large settlement, then they will finally realize where they're at.
Reneshat 12-04-07, 02:36 AM	So today I found a notice on the board of my FLGS for players for a lore heavy Forgotten Realms game that is going to be starting hopefully soon. I called the number, and it looks like I'm finally going to get to play in the campaign setting I've been waiting to do for years. I don't know the specifics yet, but assuming it's going to be possible, I want to play a Triadic Knight (concept more than class, though I might wind up with the class), or a Cleric of Ilmater if no one else wants to play a divine caster. I just wanted to share my joy.
Stigger 12-04-07, 03:54 AM	Grats! Just remember to bring something heavy to bash others over the head with, the way a good knight should. :D
MarkusTay63 12-04-07, 01:33 PM	So, if your a Triadic Knight when 1384 hits, do you have to fight yourself? :confused: Congrats, BTW, its nice to hear that new FR games are still starting up, despite all the 4e hubub. :)
Reneshat 12-05-07, 12:56 AM	So, if your a Triadic Knight when 1384 hits, do you have to fight yourself? :confused: I'll get around it by the fact that Helm isn't a member of the Triad. :D
MarkusTay63 12-05-07, 04:43 PM	Okay... sorry about that - I thought he was. I need to brush-up on my Impiltur again. :rolleyes:
Dark Wizard 12-05-07, 09:52 PM	Good to hear some people aren't deterred from running a Realms game either with the looming catastrophes on the horizon or with the innate baggage of the setting. The Triad still seems like it broke up since Ilmater left for Brightwater after the Tyr-Helm incident, leaving only Tyr and Torm in the House of the Triad.
Alkasyn 12-06-07, 02:31 AM	Good to hear some people aren't deterred from running a Realms game either with the looming catastrophes on the horizon or with the innate baggage of the setting. The Triad still seems like it broke up since Ilmater left for Brightwater after the Tyr-Helm incident, leaving only Tyr and Torm in the House of the Triad. Still, I see no reason why the Knights of the Triad shouldn't continue their job. The Gods might not be working as closely as they did before, but it's not like Ilmater started hating the other two after the death of Helm. Also, it would be a shame to let all that organisation, and discipline to go to waste, so in the worst case, the Knights would rename themselves and continue their struggle.
MarkusTay63 12-06-07, 01:57 PM	With the way most of the gods are becoming 'other' gods, perhaps we'll find out Ilmater is really Ilmatar. After all, we got a whole bunch of the rest of the Finnish Pantheon active in the Realms, so it's not as far of a stretch as it would first appear. And there are several canon Torillian gods that have both male and female aspects (most notably the Elemental Lords), so technically gods are sexless (although they usually have a preference). Of course, they might just become Knights of the Biad - but that would make them sound kinda... I don't know... Spartan? ;)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-06-07, 03:03 PM	Ooooh, I love me some epicene gods.
Alkasyn 12-06-07, 03:25 PM	Of course, they might just become Knights of the Biad - but that would make them sound kinda... I don't know... Spartan? ;) That sounds kinky, I like it :P
Reneshat 12-08-07, 01:16 AM	The Triad still seems like it broke up since Ilmater left for Brightwater after the Tyr-Helm incident, leaving only Tyr and Torm in the House of the Triad. True, but I'm hoping that I get to play either long before that occurs, or the DM just ignores it, because I've wanted to play a Triadic Knight for a long time, I would hate to lose the chance now....
Rauric 12-08-07, 10:05 AM	I'm sure I deserved that, after correcting LK that the average of 2d10 is 11 rather than 10. Their problem is there is too much out there and they don't have the time, energy, or even the materials they feel they need to get the grounding they feel is necessary to play a game in the Realms. "The good thing about Greyhawk, is you can just start playing after reading only a few things. You don't need the whole library of information you need to play in the Realms." That might be a little paraphrased, but not by much. Anyway, this eventually led to an argument about how many box sets there were before 2ed. Neither of us knew, so both of us knew we were guessing, but it turned out I was right and he was wrong. When it comes down to it you can just "hop in and play" in any campaign world, it all depends on the DM. My players are not FR canon-people, anything they learn about the Realms comes mainly from me. Some are lazy but a few will do some research on the background info if it relates to their PC. Anyway it does blow that people cannot realize the Realms can be noob friendly. I think bad DMs or canon-nazis have soured players view on the Realms.