| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Kenzuki02-14-08, 06:53 AM | Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today in the presence of all the righteous and just in the world. Today we remember one of the most noble of all champions, the Eternal Watcher, the only god not to fall during the Time of Troubles. He who watched eternally from the threat of evil to this world. The most noble and honorable, Helm. Helm was a noble deity, misunderstood by reason of his lonely vigil and responsibilities. Indeed, many did not understand the actions Helm took during the Time of Troubles such as slaying his former lover (so they say) Mystra when she tried to ascend back into the heavens. Helm was only doing his duty and obeying his master, Lord Ao. He only remained a true god during the Avatar Crisis, and he alone knows the weight of having to bear the burden of eternally watching over the needs of the people. His church was sullied by the actions of some of his clergy in Maztica, but twas not his fault. Of all the deities only noble Torm understood the weight on his poor shoulders. Now though Helm is dead. Slain in a unfair contest forced upon him by Tyr the interloper deity who forces people to abide by his strict sense of "Justice". *snorts* Justice indeed! Apparantly to the Maimed God, Justice doesn't include a Trial to an old friend whom you suspect (without proof) of stealing the women you were too afraid to court yourself. Indeed, Cyric the Mad was seen as worthy enough to be brought to Trial for his Crimes, and the second time was only sent to house arest. Not so for noble Helm. But I digress. Let us not take the time to think upon the unjust actions of Tyr, but let us remember instead the noble deeds of the Watcher, who even now watches over our souls somewhere out there. May the memory of the Vigilant One forever inspire you to never give up and never surrender your responsibilities! |
| Lord Karsus02-14-08, 07:42 AM | Dies iræ! dies illa Solvet sæclum in favilla Teste David *** Sibylla! Quantus tremor est futurus, quando judex est venturus, cuncta stricte discussurus! Tuba mirum spargens sonum per sepulchra regionum, coget omnes ante thronum. Mors stupebit et natura, *** resurget creatura, judicanti responsura. Liber scriptus proferetur, in quo totum continetur, unde mundus judicetur. Judex ergo *** sedebit, quidquid latet apparebit: nil inultum remanebit. Quid sum miser tunc dicturus? Quem patronum rogaturus, *** vix justus sit securus? Rex tremendæ majestatis, qui salvandos salvas gratis, salva me, fons pietatis. Recordare, Jesu pie, quod sum causa tuæ viæ: ne me perdas illa die. Quærens me, sedisti lassus: redemisti Crucem passus: tantus labor non sit cassus. Juste judex ultionis, donum fac remissionis ante diem rationis. Ingemisco, tamquam reus: culpa rubet vultus meus: supplicanti parce, Deus. Qui Mariam absolvisti, et latronem exaudisti, mihi quoque spem dedisti. Preces meæ non sunt dignæ: sed tu bonus fac benigne, ne perenni cremer igne. Inter oves locum præsta, et ab hædis me sequestra, statuens in parte dextra. Confutatis maledictis, flammis acribus addictis: voca me *** benedictis. Oro supplex et acclinis, cor contritum quasi cinis: gere curam mei finis. -An amazing song... |
| Kenzuki02-14-08, 08:30 AM | My latin is not that good Lord Karsus. Translation if you will oh Lord of Hubris. |
| Lord Karsus02-14-08, 08:59 AM | Day of wrath! O day of mourning! See fulfilled the prophets' warning, Heaven and earth in ashes burning! Oh what fear man's bosom rendeth, when from heaven the Judge descendeth, on whose sentence all dependeth. Wondrous sound the trumpet flingeth; through earth's sepulchers it ringeth; all before the throne it bringeth. Death is struck, and nature quaking, all creation is awaking, to its Judge an answer making. Lo! the book, exactly worded, wherein all hath been recorded: thence shall judgment be awarded. When the Judge his seat attaineth, and each hidden deed arraigneth, nothing unavenged remaineth. What shall I, frail man, be pleading? Who for me be interceding, when the just are mercy needing? King of Majesty tremendous, who dost free salvation send us, Fount of pity, then befriend us! Think, good Jesus, my salvation cost thy wondrous Incarnation; leave me not to reprobation! Faint and weary, thou hast sought me, on the cross of suffering bought me. shall such grace be vainly brought me? Righteous Judge! for sin's pollution grant thy gift of absolution, ere the day of retribution. Guilty, now I pour my moaning, all my shame with anguish owning; spare, O God, thy suppliant groaning! Thou the sinful woman savedst; thou the dying thief forgavest; and to me a hope vouchsafest. Worthless are my prayers and sighing, yet, good Lord, in grace complying, rescue me from fires undying! With thy favored sheep O place me; nor among the goats abase me; but to thy right hand upraise me. While the wicked are confounded, doomed to flames of woe unbounded call me with thy saints surrounded. Low I kneel, with heart submission, see, like ashes, my contrition; help me in my last condition. -It's a Gregorian Chant funeral dirge. Not even my religion, but the music is very powerful. I'd reccomend listening to a sample of it somewhere (I'm sure it can be found on the internet, somewhere), just because. |
| Rauric02-14-08, 09:34 AM | Maybe Helm's death is just in a way for what his clergy did in his name in Maztica? Just playing devils advocate. I will probably keep him around I think in 4E. He was a better Bane than Bane could be. I had good and bad people worshipping him. One cleric in my game ran his town tighter than Zhentil Keep, and much harsher as well. Then another town was very democratic with how they ran things. The neutral gods appealed to me more than the "good/evil" deities. |
| Markustay02-14-08, 11:23 AM | Goood Riddance! :devil: |
| sfdragon02-14-08, 12:54 PM | toasts to his memory May Tyr get his arse kicked ever so swiftly |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-14-08, 03:02 PM | Dearly beloved...we are gathered here today to get through this thing called LIFE! |
| Lord Karsus02-14-08, 03:23 PM | -I think this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOU8GIRUd_g)link is very relevant, as it talks about how some people feel about Helm. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-14-08, 03:28 PM | -I think this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOU8GIRUd_g)link is very relevant, as it talks about how some people feel about Helm. Oooh, I like that guy!:D |
| Lord Karsus02-14-08, 03:37 PM | Oooh, I like that guy!:D -I learned that trick from you. ;) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-14-08, 04:27 PM | -I learned that trick from you. ;) I'm sooooo honored.:embarrass |
| Kenzuki02-14-08, 06:46 PM | Thank you Lord Karsus for that beautiful dirge. To all of you who side with the Unjust One in his slaying of the Watcher I say this. Your time has come, your hour draws nigh. Hoar laughs you to scorn! For noble Torm shall avenge the fallen Helm and take the Unjust One's place at the head of righteousness! |
| Lord Karsus02-15-08, 06:42 AM | Thank you Lord Karsus for that beautiful dirge. -Like I said, you need to really hear the melody to get it's full impact. |
| Kenzuki02-15-08, 06:53 AM | Where canst I hear this haunting melody? |
| Lord Karsus02-15-08, 08:55 AM | -Somewhere on the internet? I don't know. |
| Markustay02-15-08, 10:22 AM | I don't understand the relevance of THAT video, LK, but when I think of 4e FR in general, I think of THIS SONG. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akoukq5DvAE) although the video is pretty good, the modern weapons of course don't apply to FR... jus the song itself. ;) I picture Helm singing THIS SONG (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfm-17pu6SQ) - just replace "trusted friend" with Torm, "Papa" with Tyr, and "Michelle" with Tymora. That song always gets me 'misty'. :weep: |
| Lord Karsus02-15-08, 10:25 AM | I don't understand the relevance of THAT video, LK... -Because people don't want to give him up. |
| Markustay02-15-08, 10:28 AM | Hmmmm... okay, I get it, I suppose. Maybe because I never really cared for him (my first experience of him was the Avatar Crisis, and my second was the Moonshaes, and my third was Maztica), I didn't get the 'gist' of what you were going for. |
| Lord Karsus02-15-08, 10:42 AM | Hmmmm... okay, I get it, I suppose. Maybe because I never really cared for him (my first experience of him was the Avatar Crisis, and my second was the Moonshaes, and my third was Maztica), I didn't get the 'gist' of what you were going for. -I don't really care for him either, but, if we're having a funeral for him, obviously some people did... |
| Charles Phipps02-15-08, 12:19 PM | Tyr bashing aside in the eulogy, I'd like to say a few words about Helm. Helm never forgot his roots as a Nordic asskicking deity. Helm was the God that my player characters turned to when you absolutely knew someone was there to be THE PROTECTOR. Helm's duty was never flinching, never stopping, and always to the bitter end. http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Film/Pix/gallery/2002/10/29/theoden3.jpg Helm did not deserve to be killed in a silly little duel over a woman. Even if you include the "Tristan and Isolde" moments, Helm was a god who deserved to go out fighting like a man. He was a God that should have perished slamming his sword into the skull of Cyric (Loki) on the last days of Ragnarok, right alongside his brother in arms Tyr. Tyr, Tempus, and Helm were the old fashioned Nordic Gods. In my opinion, the original Triad. So, I blow the horn of Helm Hammerhand and give a salute to him. *raises a flagon of Mead* Oh, and Kenzuki, while I get you're parodying my thread. I think Helm deserves better as an epiteth, something second hand used for Tyr. How about "All those who love Unflinching Service." Honestly, it's insulting to Helm to give him Tyr's funerary sloppy seconds. *puts on Viking Helmet* |
| Kenzuki02-16-08, 07:20 AM | Charles, no offense ment but Tyrrans aren't allowed to Helm's Funeral. We don't want your propaganda here trying to whitewash how your god killed noble Helm over Tymora. Just admit Tyr was an idiot and get over it. |
| Lord Karsus02-16-08, 08:47 AM | -Ouch. |
| Charles Phipps02-16-08, 02:44 PM | Charles, no offense ment but Tyrrans aren't allowed to Helm's Funeral. We don't want your propaganda here trying to whitewash how your god killed noble Helm over Tymora. Just admit Tyr was an idiot and get over it. I don't honestly intend to talk about Tyr at Helm's funeral. |
| GothicDan02-16-08, 02:49 PM | I'm an arcane worshiper of the Seldarine/Azuth/Mystra/Shar/Myrkul/Jergal/Oghma/Milil/Lathander/Selune/Talos.... Can I come? ;) |
| XHereticX02-16-08, 02:52 PM | -It's a Gregorian Chant funeral dirge. Not even my religion, but the music is very powerful. I'd reccomend listening to a sample of it somewhere (I'm sure it can be found on the internet, somewhere), just because. Hmm, you either used Babelfish or just found an online translation. Stop trying to look smarter than yo uactually are;) Now if it was GothicDan, I might actually believe it. Hmm, I wanna come to the funeral. As for my faith...hehehe... |
| GothicDan02-16-08, 02:55 PM | I can only translate about half of it without hitting up the English-Latin Dictionary. Vocabulary is just super hard for me to learn, since it's hard for me to store isolated fact-bits in my head (part of the Autistic part of me). |
| XHereticX02-16-08, 02:57 PM | I can only translate about half of it without hitting up the English-Latin Dictionary. Vocabulary is just super hard for me to learn, since it's hard for me to store isolated fact-bits in my head (part of the Autistic part of me). I took Latin for a year before my teacher moved to Korea:( I don't have the motivation for personal study so... |
| Lord Karsus02-17-08, 09:25 AM | Hmm, you either used Babelfish or just found an online translation. Stop trying to look smarter than yo uactually are;) -Did I once claim that the translation was my own? |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-17-08, 08:46 PM | Besides, LK is a god, he is already a supra-genius.;) |
| GothicDan02-17-08, 09:48 PM | Even if he's not as smart as I am. |
| DarkSongKnight02-17-08, 10:01 PM | Here (http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlr90NLDp-0&feature=related) is "Dies Irae," or "The Day of Wrath" that LK mentioned. There are several different versions of it, but this one seemed the most traditional. May Helm rest in peace. |
| Reneshat02-18-08, 12:44 AM | For those wondering about the previous dirge the lyrics are, We're no strangers to love, You know the rules and so do I, A real commitment's what I'm thinking of, You wouldn't get it from any other guy, I just want to tell you how I'm feeling, I really need you to understand, Never gonna give you up, Never gonna let you down, Never gonna run around and desert you, Never gonna make you cry, Never gonna say goodbye, Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you. What's sad, is I did that from memory. |
| Lord Karsus02-18-08, 01:00 AM | Besides, LK is a god, he is already a supra-genius.;) -Correct. Even if he's not as smart as I am. -Debatable. What's sad, is I did that from memory. -It's hard to forget good music. :P |
| Passivearmada02-19-08, 05:06 PM | Why Helm? The only god I ever really looked at, and said, "Now this is a decent one." I hear talk of mythological gods in 4E, and I'll say if Helm is replaced by Thor, then I'm going to kill every Thor-follower in Faerun. :mad: Excuse me, I may be overreacting... ...But we'll see. :schemes: |
| Charles Phipps02-19-08, 05:24 PM | Dude, Tempus is Thor. ;-) |
| Kenzuki02-19-08, 06:12 PM | I look forward to Helm being avenged in one way or the other. I don't care if they kill Tyr, send him packing, or reduce him in power. I just want him to be punished for the Injustice he committed. |
| GothicDan02-19-08, 07:10 PM | Tempus is so not Thor. ;) Just because the Rauthymar worship him doesn't make him Thor... Even if he's Thor-like at times. The fact that he's missing the STORM aspect is a huge thing - also the farming/agricultural aspect that made him so popular. The strength/combat aspect was only half of who Thor was, and even then, he still shared that war aspect with Odin and Tyr. PS: I really am not singling out Charles here! I just realized it may seem like it! I just genuinely disagree with a lot of his conclusions. :) |
| Charles Phipps02-19-08, 07:32 PM | Yes, Tempus is no Rain God. You know....despite the name. |
| GothicDan02-19-08, 07:37 PM | Which is a declension of the noun for "Time" in Latin. :) |
| Charles Phipps02-19-08, 07:53 PM | And also a name for a storm. Pst. |
| Kenzuki02-19-08, 07:54 PM | Isn't that Tempest though? |
| GothicDan02-19-08, 07:57 PM | Yes, yes it is. "Tempus" only refers to "Time." Keep on reaching, Charles. :) |
| Kenzuki02-19-08, 08:22 PM | From what I'm hearing on the subject, Kord seems to be the new Thor. |
| GothicDan02-19-08, 08:23 PM | Naw, Kord is sort of like Vidar. Again, he's lacking the Storm aspect that Thor had, which was his primary aspect. The warrior/combat/strength part came later. |
| Lord Karsus02-19-08, 08:27 PM | From what I'm hearing on the subject, Kord seems to be the new Thor. -Kord is more Lathander than anyone else. If we're comparing deities, that is. |
| Charles Phipps02-19-08, 08:28 PM | Yes, yes it is. "Tempus" only refers to "Time." Keep on reaching, Charles. :) Nope. You're really not winning this one. |
| GothicDan02-19-08, 08:31 PM | *Stares.* Tempus is a totally different derivative than Tempest! *Sputter, stare.* |
| Charles Phipps02-19-08, 08:32 PM | I know. ;-) Thors still Tempus. |
| GothicDan02-19-08, 08:33 PM | *Throws up hands, storms out, babbling madly.* |
| Lord Karsus02-19-08, 08:35 PM | -"Storms out"... :rimshot: |
| GothicDan02-19-08, 08:37 PM | "Tempus fugit." Note that it doesn't mean "Storm flies." ;) |
| Charles Phipps02-19-08, 08:44 PM | And Tempus is a God of War not Time. Sometimes a name is just a name. But Tempus is a Thorey name. |
| GothicDan02-19-08, 08:47 PM | Tempus is an uncommon enough word and name for it not to have been chosen at random by Ed, I bet. Do you really think Ed knows nothing of Latin, or chose the name ignorantly? Because I sure don't. It'd be really silly for him to choose Tempus ("Time") to refer to Tempest, to refer to Thor, when Tempus had no storm-based portfolios, and in his notes on Talos he already made it clear it was Talos who was supposed to be the amalgamated storm deity... And War being an ever-present aspect of civilization, throughout all times... If you're trying to analyze Tempus's name, then you can't exactly say "A name is just a name," and then call it Thor-y - when it's clear it obviously isn't to some of us... EDIT: Well, you can. I just know I'm not going to buy it. Norse myth and Classical myth are my two biggest subjects, so it's going to take a lot more to convince me. :) |
| Charles Phipps02-19-08, 10:31 PM | Tempus is an uncommon enough word and name for it not to have been chosen at random by Ed, I bet. Do you really think Ed knows nothing of Latin, or chose the name ignorantly? Because I sure don't. Do I think Ed Greenwood at 16 when he created the Realms chose it because it sounded cool? Yes. |
| GothicDan02-20-08, 12:05 PM | That's your prerogative. I'll just note that a lot of 16 year olds had Latin classes, especially back then, and that Tempus isn't exactly the kind of word that you randomly think up because it sounds cool - not the exact spelling of a somewhat arcanely declined Latin noun. I'm not a big fan of coincidence. :) But, seriously, I wonder what Ed has to say on the subject. |
| Scathlock02-20-08, 01:09 PM | There's one sentence latin teachers love to say to students during exams when time is running....: Tempus fugit. It would be reaaally ironic when Ed chose the name because of that. Tempus is fleeing? :D |
| MarkusTay6302-20-08, 01:53 PM | Not to take sides (I almost always sit on the fence and dangle my feet into both fields ;)), but.... Why can't Tempus be Thor, the same way Tyr is Tyr? :blink: Being in the Realms changes a god, and they have to adjust their portfolios and attitudes accordingly, to conform to Ao's rules. Suppose Thor was Tempest in Faerûn way back in time, and lost his Storm aspect to other gods - such things happen all the time in the Realms. After a few millenia, Tempest could have easily become Tempus - especially if he lost his weather aspect. Perhaps when Targus split into Talos and Garagos, Talos grabbed the Storm Portfolio from him. With the crazy-@ss gods that walk the Realms, anythig is possible... Just look at what happened to Ilmatar when she spent too much time on Toril. ;) |
| GothicDan02-20-08, 02:22 PM | Tempus could be Thor. And Sune could be Freya. And Oghma could be Odin... It's not the question of "could be?" but rather "most probably is..?" Tempus is way too specific a Latin noun for Ed to have chosen it because it sounds like "Tempest," in my opinion. He always made it quite clear when one of FR's gods was based on RL ones (Aphrodite - Sune, Tyr - Tyr, etc.) and he's never said anything about Thor being an inspiration for Tempus. |
| MarkusTay6302-20-08, 02:41 PM | True, but it is possible that he could - Ed may have started this whole ball rolling, but its pretty much gotten away from him at this point. ;) |
| Charles Phipps02-20-08, 02:54 PM | Seriously, Gothic Dan, there's nothing about time with Tempus. Or are you going to claim that Bhaal is actually a remade Baal as opposed to just being a stolen name for his own god? Or shall we talk about how Bhaal demands 1st born cathagian males? |
| Lord Karsus02-20-08, 03:06 PM | Or are you going to claim that Bhaal is actually a remade Baal as opposed to just being a stolen name for his own god? -He did lose the entire harvest/fertility/rebirth aspect... |
| GothicDan02-20-08, 03:14 PM | Seriously, Gothic Dan, there's nothing about time with Tempus. Or are you going to claim that Bhaal is actually a remade Baal as opposed to just being a stolen name for his own god? Or shall we talk about how Bhaal demands 1st born cathagian males? I'm assuming you're referring to Ba'al Haamon, Semite Carthaginian God that vied with Tanit for patronage? Heh. Currently reading a book on Carthage, actually. Very good. And no, I see little to no Ba'al=Bhaal sources, especially since, as I said, I felt that Faerun was Indo-European, and as stated above, Ba'al is not. :) And remember, I'm the one trying to NOT draw the real world comparisons where they don't belong. Silly Charles. I'll accept that there's nothing specifically about Time with Tempus. But there's also nothing specifically about TEMPEST with Tempus. PS: I brought you up in the Aeneid class today, Charles. It was interesting. |
| GothicDan02-20-08, 03:24 PM | Anyway, I'm sorry if I've clogged up the tribute to Helm. It appears, truly, that Charles and I will never see eye to eye when it comes to Comparative Mythology - no matter the amount of evidence given. Have fun, folks. Hail Helm? :) *Wanders out, reads more books.* |
| Passivearmada02-20-08, 03:36 PM | Anyway, I'm sorry if I've clogged up the tribute to Helm. It appears, truly, that Charles and I will never see eye to eye when it comes to Comparative Mythology - no matter the amount of evidence given. Have fun, folks. Hail Helm? :) *Wanders out, reads more books.* :fight!: Yes, hail Helm. :fight!: |
| Charles Phipps02-20-08, 04:30 PM | Bizarrely, I don't honestly care about what I disagree with Gothic Dan about. I couldn't care less. It's the fact he's a miser with his cultural comparisons and forces you to argue every one of his opinions out of him rather than sharing his ideas as a whole (I have a whole thread for that) :p *shakes fist* I wanna hear em! But yes, I like Helm because he's a god that can do moral ambiguity. |
| Lyvannalas02-20-08, 05:12 PM | Wasn´t this the thread to mourn Helm? |
| Charles Phipps02-20-08, 05:17 PM | No, it's a thread to Mourn Helm and Bash Tyr. :-) So, what's your favorite Helm moment in your games or in canon? |
| Kenzuki02-20-08, 05:31 PM | This is Tyr's fault after all. I hope Helm gets Justice for this. |
| Lyvannalas02-20-08, 05:51 PM | This is Tyr's fault after all. I hope Helm gets Justice for this. Actually, he´ll get "Tormed". ^^ |
| Charles Phipps02-20-08, 06:02 PM | This is Tyr's fault after all. I hope Helm gets Justice for this. I'm hoping Tyr will get exonerated but yes, Tyr would kill himself were it not just because he's Tyr. Then he'd resurrect as an OVERGOD! ;-) |
| Kenzuki02-20-08, 08:57 PM | I'm hoping Tyr will get exonerated but yes, Tyr would kill himself were it not just because he's Tyr. Then he'd resurrect as an OVERGOD! ;-) Tyr would not kill himself because he's Tyr? Whaa? |
| Charles Phipps02-20-08, 10:10 PM | Yes, if it's not justice, Tyr would take his own life. |