A new approach to "Chosen." [Archive] - Wizards Community

A new approach to "Chosen." [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Yamo
09-23-03, 04:24 PM In short, I like the concept, but I do not like the execution. There's too many of the damned things running around. Mystra alone must have at least a dozen Chosen/former Chosen running around the campaign world. I don't care if she is Ed's favorite god and they're Ed's favorite megamunchkins, nothing stays special when it's overdone ad nauseum like that.

So here's my simplified version:

a) Every god has one (and only one) Chosen at a time. Period.

b) My own Chosen of Mystra will probably not be any of the "published" ones, but one of my own creation.

c) Chosen of Mystra/Magister will be combined into one position.

d) The extra Chosen in the official material will be "demoted" to previous versions of themselves (Elminster, for example, will be a 20-something level wizard, just like in the old gray box notes and nothing more).

Thoughts?
Chronic Alcoholic
09-23-03, 04:34 PM Well isn't Mystra the only good with a legion of chosen?

If that's so there is an easy solution, KILL MYSTRA

WOTC don't you get it, we players HATE Mystra

or at least most of us.

and Yamo, I agree with you and always have looked at it in that way that only one chosen per deity
Kuje31
09-23-03, 04:36 PM If it works for you. Go for it. I think it bites, but that's me and I never understood the big hang up people have with the Chosen. :)

But then you also have to change the Emerald Enclave, since the three leaders are Chosen of three deities, Silvanus, Eldath and Mielikki. And also don't forgot Mielikki also has a fourth who now wanders the North.
Kuje31
09-23-03, 04:39 PM Originally posted by Chronic Alcoholic
Well isn't Mystra the only good with a legion of chosen?

If that's so there is an easy solution, KILL MYSTRA

WOTC don't you get it, we players HATE Mystra

or at least most of us.

and Yamo, I agree with you and always have looked at it in that way that only one chosen per deity

So, if we use that line of thinking WOTC should change every thing I hate about 3e realms fluff. Like the maps, the new elves, the 1 step rule, the patron diety rule, etc. Come one, seriously. I know I have voiced my complaints on the boards a lot but I never expected WOTC to listen to every one's complaints.

No not all of us players and dm's hate the Chosen, and I have used them for years in my games with no problems.
Reefy
09-23-03, 08:41 PM I also have no problems with Mystra or the Chosen and neither do my players. And it's your campaign, if you don't like them, don't use them, just don't expect everyone else to.
CaffeineGenasi
09-24-03, 06:05 AM If you don't like it, change it for your game. DOesn't every role playing book have that somewhere in the first 5 pages.

Mystra's not so bad. But we usually play her like a young ex-slutty mage who got in way over her head with the whole goddess thing. She's actually pretty cool, if she isn't too busy to hang out.
Darkmistress
09-24-03, 06:39 AM Originally posted by Chronic Alcoholic
Well isn't Mystra the only good with a legion of chosen?

If that's so there is an easy solution, KILL MYSTRA

WOTC don't you get it, we players HATE Mystra

or at least most of us.

and Yamo, I agree with you and always have looked at it in that way that only one chosen per deity

From what I know, the actual impact of forum-posters have on WoTC's decisions is very small. You see, most customers simply don't come to this board. Those who do are the most vocal ones, true, but not necessarily the majority. They look at the sales numbers, not at us.

So don't be so petulant.
Chronic Alcoholic
09-24-03, 10:49 AM Well I didn't expect WOTC just to do what I say (I have been working on my Command spell but no luck yet).

It was more an expression of my frusteration of how Mystra seems to be so ultra powerful, lot's of chosen and such. Also I don't like the magic god to be good, he's supposed to be neutral.

But in reality I don't wan't them to kill her just because of that (but i wouldn't mind them killing her for a good novel idea or some)just that they downplay on her powers, she's becoming like the Drow, too much.
^Graff
09-24-03, 11:08 AM That's why they created the Shadow Weave. Mystra suddenly isn't all powerful. With Shar, Mystra suddenly has a rival.

Besides, the Chosen aren't Ed's favorite Ubermunchkins. He never expected them to be used this much. He always said "If the players want to get the Chosen's help, have the Chosen to be off on another plane of existence."
Faraer
09-24-03, 01:39 PM The munchkin thing is just nonsense -- Ed couldn't be further from that mentality -- and it's foolish for someone at least semi-informed about the Realms to perpetuate it.

I suggest you use the old approach to Chosen. There are only Chosen of Mystra, because the cause for them only applies to her.
Xae'an
09-24-03, 08:10 PM To those who hate Mystra/the Chosen/3E or whatsoever:

If you don't like them, why don't you simply play another campaign setting? Try out Greyhawk, Dragonlance or invent your own world, but quit complaining about FR. It's not the only world in D&D or roleplaying in general and no one forces you to use it for your campaign. I'm quite sure that the majority of the players/DMs likes the chosen the way they are and would not be happy if WotC removed them. You can even play FR without them, just set your campaign in a region where they have little or no influence or simply don't mention them. If a DM focuses on them (or any other NPC) that's bad DMing but this is not Ed's or WotC's fault. If you think Mystra's power is unbalanced create chosen of Shar, that's at least the way I handle this minor problem.
Starfall
09-24-03, 08:18 PM I agree with Xae'an, and also, if some of the people here don't like Forgotten Realms, then why should they be posting on this board? Doesn't make much sense to me...:confused:

I personally love the FR. I've never seen such an established world, yet not so established that DM's can't throw in their own little twists on things. Like many have said, if you don't like it and your the DM, change it! So long as the change is justifiable, then the players shouldn't have a problem with it. (course, I say shouldn't when I realize close to 80% of players just want things their way...)

Anyways, just my thoughts on the matter...
Dargoth
09-24-03, 08:36 PM The Chosen as I see them

Every god can have a chosen however creating one results in the loss of 1 divine rank (the Rank can be reearned by gaining more worshipers)

Said Chosen acts as the "Pope" of their religion

The chosen are restricted in what they can do in much the same way the gods are restricted, Chosen can only act against events that effect there chosens portfolio. For example Elminster could travel Faerun Fireballing Shadow weave users (The shadow weave is a direct threat to Elminsters patron Mystra) Elminster may not however level Zhentil Keep because he doesnt like Evil and Tyranny as these are not a direct threat to Magic.

Mystra has many chosen for several reasons

1) because pre time of troubles Mystra had to much power so she was forced by AO to give some of her power to Azuth and the Chosen

2) As of ToT gods derive their power directly from the number of Worshipers they have. This is a problem for Mystra as inly Wuzards or Sorcerors are drawn to worshiping her. So shes got her chosen create magic items and encourage inorder to boost her profile

3)
Chronic Alcoholic
09-25-03, 06:15 PM Originally posted by Xae'an
If you don't like them, why don't you simply play another campaign setting? Try out Greyhawk, Dragonlance or invent your own world, but quit complaining about FR. It's not the only world in D&D or roleplaying in general and no one forces you to use it for your campaign.

Yeah, but FR is by far the most cool standard high fantasy setting for D&D and it's the most detailed one. I ain't gonna let Mystra being boring stop me from DMing FR.

I actually like the Chosen I just dislike one god having loads of them (how many are they anyways) while some have none.

So I see no harm in us posting on this forum talking about how we dealt with that problem.
Kuje31
09-25-03, 06:23 PM Originally posted by Chronic Alcoholic
Yeah, but FR is by far the most cool standard high fantasy setting for D&D and it's the most detailed one. I ain't gonna let Mystra being boring stop me from DMing FR.

I actually like the Chosen I just dislike one god having loads of them (how many are they anyways) while some have none.

So I see no harm in us posting on this forum talking about how we dealt with that problem.

12 that we know of, out of the countless thousands to millions of beings that exist in FR. 12 is not a huge number..... Mielikki has 4 that we know of also.

I still just dont understand what the big deal about the Chosen are.... Also there is a perfectly logical reason why Mystra has the most.

And we don't know if some deities have none, they might but they are just not written up or stat'd any where.
Nei
09-26-03, 03:49 AM My take on Mystra and her Chosen:

Spoiled little brat walks into a toystore.
Adult: Yes, little Mystra, you may choose one doll to play with.
Spoiled little brat runs towards the shelves, grabbing every doll she can reach.
Mystra: I want this one, and this one, and this one, and the one with the pipe, and this one, and...
Adult: Wait! No! Mystra, you can only have one!
Mystra: And this one, and this one...
Adult: Mystra!
Spoiled little brat looks up.
Mystra: What?
Adult: You can only have one doll!
Mystra: But...
Adult: If you take all the dolls, then the other children won't have any dolls to play with.
Mystra: I will leave some for them...
Adult: But it wouldn't be fair if you had more dolls then they have, don't you think?
Mystra: Why not?
Adult: Because everything has to be shared equally, so that everybody's happy.
Spoiled little brat thinks for a while.
Mystra: I'm only happy if I have lots of dolls!
Adult: <sigh>
Mystra: And I want this one, and this one...

:)

Nei
High elf Sniper
09-27-03, 06:01 PM Does ne1 have a template or ideas for chosen of Meilikki or know where I can find one
ksu_bond
10-02-03, 09:06 PM I think that each deity could possibly have one or more Chosen, however, they would be "chosen" for a purpose as are the Chosen of Mystra. Her Chosen weren't simply to have ready made uber-PC's running around, their intent was to be around to help protect the Weave among other things.

For instance there are some deities that simply would not have any sort of chosen, unless the need happen to arise. For instance - Lolth, Shar, Umberlee, and Malar would be unlikely to ever have a chosen because they do not trust anyone aside from themselves and enjoy the power they have and dislike giving it to others (ie. driders and the requirements to get the Shadow Weave feat).

While dieties like Kossuth and the other elemental gods would never have a chosen...this probably could be extended to the demihuman pantheons as well, where an individual is more likely to recieve the blessing or favor of the diety.

This isn't to say that it isn't necessarily impossible but rather the chosen would have to fulfill some sort of function for the diety and would be reflection of that dieties power (ie. the chosen of Mystra is and always will be more powerful than Lurue's). This is because a Greater Diety would have more power to share with their chosen, however, even this isn't necessarily a hard and fast rule as some Greater Dieties might be open to having a chosen, but give them a minimal amount of power (this goes back to the purpose factor).

For instance, I'm working on a "chosen" for Selune. As a one time greater diety, that is now an Intermediate Diety due to her countless battles with her sister Shar. My rationale behind a "chosen" of Selune is to help aid the goddess in protecting her faithful from servants of Shar (who have killed many of Selune's worshippers, and is partially the reason that she has deminished in power) and likewise seeking to weaken the church of Shar on Toril. So in this case Selune's chosen will be a slightly more impressive divine champion - the reason being that although she has the need for a champion, her power is tenuous as she is in a constant struggle with Shar who continues to gain power. So instead of calling them a Chosen of Selune, they would be known as the Divine Champion of Selune (or something).

This is something to remember amidst the abundance of chosen-mania, instead of having a chosen you could just as easily have a divinely touched, a blessed, and so on and so on.
Rek0
10-02-03, 11:44 PM i dont think the issue for lolth and shar not having chosen is because they dont trust otheres, rather they dont want to give up any of their power
Kuje31
10-03-03, 12:02 AM Liriel might have been a Chosen of Lloth for a time. Elaine hasn't said yes or no on the question. All she said is that Lloth and the priestess who told the Matron Mother that could have been lying.
kedi
10-03-03, 01:16 PM Originally posted by Chronic Alcoholic
Well isn't Mystra the only good with a legion of chosen?

If that's so there is an easy solution, KILL MYSTRA

WOTC don't you get it, we players HATE Mystra

or at least most of us.

and Yamo, I agree with you and always have looked at it in that way that only one chosen per deity I DO hate mystra!!(actually i hate midnight and myatra, not mystryl)

hate elminster bevause its rediculus if a 3rd level priest casts "mass flesh to stone" and "teleportation circle" (in making of a mage) and whats the deal with giving birth to seven daughters?? and i especially hate qilue, chosen of mystra and elistrae geez come'on!
kedi
10-03-03, 01:20 PM I hate those things, but love the rest of the fr world, don get me wrong

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Yamo 09-23-03, 04:24 PM	In short, I like the concept, but I do not like the execution. There's too many of the damned things running around. Mystra alone must have at least a dozen Chosen/former Chosen running around the campaign world. I don't care if she is Ed's favorite god and they're Ed's favorite megamunchkins, nothing stays special when it's overdone ad nauseum like that. So here's my simplified version: a) Every god has one (and only one) Chosen at a time. Period. b) My own Chosen of Mystra will probably not be any of the "published" ones, but one of my own creation. c) Chosen of Mystra/Magister will be combined into one position. d) The extra Chosen in the official material will be "demoted" to previous versions of themselves (Elminster, for example, will be a 20-something level wizard, just like in the old gray box notes and nothing more). Thoughts?
Chronic Alcoholic 09-23-03, 04:34 PM	Well isn't Mystra the only good with a legion of chosen? If that's so there is an easy solution, KILL MYSTRA WOTC don't you get it, we players HATE Mystra or at least most of us. and Yamo, I agree with you and always have looked at it in that way that only one chosen per deity
Kuje31 09-23-03, 04:36 PM	If it works for you. Go for it. I think it bites, but that's me and I never understood the big hang up people have with the Chosen. :) But then you also have to change the Emerald Enclave, since the three leaders are Chosen of three deities, Silvanus, Eldath and Mielikki. And also don't forgot Mielikki also has a fourth who now wanders the North.
Kuje31 09-23-03, 04:39 PM	Originally posted by Chronic Alcoholic Well isn't Mystra the only good with a legion of chosen? If that's so there is an easy solution, KILL MYSTRA WOTC don't you get it, we players HATE Mystra or at least most of us. and Yamo, I agree with you and always have looked at it in that way that only one chosen per deity So, if we use that line of thinking WOTC should change every thing I hate about 3e realms fluff. Like the maps, the new elves, the 1 step rule, the patron diety rule, etc. Come one, seriously. I know I have voiced my complaints on the boards a lot but I never expected WOTC to listen to every one's complaints. No not all of us players and dm's hate the Chosen, and I have used them for years in my games with no problems.
Reefy 09-23-03, 08:41 PM	I also have no problems with Mystra or the Chosen and neither do my players. And it's your campaign, if you don't like them, don't use them, just don't expect everyone else to.
CaffeineGenasi 09-24-03, 06:05 AM	If you don't like it, change it for your game. DOesn't every role playing book have that somewhere in the first 5 pages. Mystra's not so bad. But we usually play her like a young ex-slutty mage who got in way over her head with the whole goddess thing. She's actually pretty cool, if she isn't too busy to hang out.
Darkmistress 09-24-03, 06:39 AM	Originally posted by Chronic Alcoholic Well isn't Mystra the only good with a legion of chosen? If that's so there is an easy solution, KILL MYSTRA WOTC don't you get it, we players HATE Mystra or at least most of us. and Yamo, I agree with you and always have looked at it in that way that only one chosen per deity From what I know, the actual impact of forum-posters have on WoTC's decisions is very small. You see, most customers simply don't come to this board. Those who do are the most vocal ones, true, but not necessarily the majority. They look at the sales numbers, not at us. So don't be so petulant.
Chronic Alcoholic 09-24-03, 10:49 AM	Well I didn't expect WOTC just to do what I say (I have been working on my Command spell but no luck yet). It was more an expression of my frusteration of how Mystra seems to be so ultra powerful, lot's of chosen and such. Also I don't like the magic god to be good, he's supposed to be neutral. But in reality I don't wan't them to kill her just because of that (but i wouldn't mind them killing her for a good novel idea or some)just that they downplay on her powers, she's becoming like the Drow, too much.
^Graff 09-24-03, 11:08 AM	That's why they created the Shadow Weave. Mystra suddenly isn't all powerful. With Shar, Mystra suddenly has a rival. Besides, the Chosen aren't Ed's favorite Ubermunchkins. He never expected them to be used this much. He always said "If the players want to get the Chosen's help, have the Chosen to be off on another plane of existence."
Faraer 09-24-03, 01:39 PM	The munchkin thing is just nonsense -- Ed couldn't be further from that mentality -- and it's foolish for someone at least semi-informed about the Realms to perpetuate it. I suggest you use the old approach to Chosen. There are only Chosen of Mystra, because the cause for them only applies to her.
Xae'an 09-24-03, 08:10 PM	To those who hate Mystra/the Chosen/3E or whatsoever: If you don't like them, why don't you simply play another campaign setting? Try out Greyhawk, Dragonlance or invent your own world, but quit complaining about FR. It's not the only world in D&D or roleplaying in general and no one forces you to use it for your campaign. I'm quite sure that the majority of the players/DMs likes the chosen the way they are and would not be happy if WotC removed them. You can even play FR without them, just set your campaign in a region where they have little or no influence or simply don't mention them. If a DM focuses on them (or any other NPC) that's bad DMing but this is not Ed's or WotC's fault. If you think Mystra's power is unbalanced create chosen of Shar, that's at least the way I handle this minor problem.
Starfall 09-24-03, 08:18 PM	I agree with Xae'an, and also, if some of the people here don't like Forgotten Realms, then why should they be posting on this board? Doesn't make much sense to me...:confused: I personally love the FR. I've never seen such an established world, yet not so established that DM's can't throw in their own little twists on things. Like many have said, if you don't like it and your the DM, change it! So long as the change is justifiable, then the players shouldn't have a problem with it. (course, I say shouldn't when I realize close to 80% of players just want things their way...) Anyways, just my thoughts on the matter...
Dargoth 09-24-03, 08:36 PM	The Chosen as I see them Every god can have a chosen however creating one results in the loss of 1 divine rank (the Rank can be reearned by gaining more worshipers) Said Chosen acts as the "Pope" of their religion The chosen are restricted in what they can do in much the same way the gods are restricted, Chosen can only act against events that effect there chosens portfolio. For example Elminster could travel Faerun Fireballing Shadow weave users (The shadow weave is a direct threat to Elminsters patron Mystra) Elminster may not however level Zhentil Keep because he doesnt like Evil and Tyranny as these are not a direct threat to Magic. Mystra has many chosen for several reasons 1) because pre time of troubles Mystra had to much power so she was forced by AO to give some of her power to Azuth and the Chosen 2) As of ToT gods derive their power directly from the number of Worshipers they have. This is a problem for Mystra as inly Wuzards or Sorcerors are drawn to worshiping her. So shes got her chosen create magic items and encourage inorder to boost her profile 3)
Chronic Alcoholic 09-25-03, 06:15 PM	Originally posted by Xae'an If you don't like them, why don't you simply play another campaign setting? Try out Greyhawk, Dragonlance or invent your own world, but quit complaining about FR. It's not the only world in D&D or roleplaying in general and no one forces you to use it for your campaign. Yeah, but FR is by far the most cool standard high fantasy setting for D&D and it's the most detailed one. I ain't gonna let Mystra being boring stop me from DMing FR. I actually like the Chosen I just dislike one god having loads of them (how many are they anyways) while some have none. So I see no harm in us posting on this forum talking about how we dealt with that problem.
Kuje31 09-25-03, 06:23 PM	Originally posted by Chronic Alcoholic Yeah, but FR is by far the most cool standard high fantasy setting for D&D and it's the most detailed one. I ain't gonna let Mystra being boring stop me from DMing FR. I actually like the Chosen I just dislike one god having loads of them (how many are they anyways) while some have none. So I see no harm in us posting on this forum talking about how we dealt with that problem. 12 that we know of, out of the countless thousands to millions of beings that exist in FR. 12 is not a huge number..... Mielikki has 4 that we know of also. I still just dont understand what the big deal about the Chosen are.... Also there is a perfectly logical reason why Mystra has the most. And we don't know if some deities have none, they might but they are just not written up or stat'd any where.
Nei 09-26-03, 03:49 AM	My take on Mystra and her Chosen: Spoiled little brat walks into a toystore. Adult: Yes, little Mystra, you may choose one doll to play with. Spoiled little brat runs towards the shelves, grabbing every doll she can reach. Mystra: I want this one, and this one, and this one, and the one with the pipe, and this one, and... Adult: Wait! No! Mystra, you can only have one! Mystra: And this one, and this one... Adult: Mystra! Spoiled little brat looks up. Mystra: What? Adult: You can only have one doll! Mystra: But... Adult: If you take all the dolls, then the other children won't have any dolls to play with. Mystra: I will leave some for them... Adult: But it wouldn't be fair if you had more dolls then they have, don't you think? Mystra: Why not? Adult: Because everything has to be shared equally, so that everybody's happy. Spoiled little brat thinks for a while. Mystra: I'm only happy if I have lots of dolls! Adult: <sigh> Mystra: And I want this one, and this one... :) Nei
High elf Sniper 09-27-03, 06:01 PM	Does ne1 have a template or ideas for chosen of Meilikki or know where I can find one
ksu_bond 10-02-03, 09:06 PM	I think that each deity could possibly have one or more Chosen, however, they would be "chosen" for a purpose as are the Chosen of Mystra. Her Chosen weren't simply to have ready made uber-PC's running around, their intent was to be around to help protect the Weave among other things. For instance there are some deities that simply would not have any sort of chosen, unless the need happen to arise. For instance - Lolth, Shar, Umberlee, and Malar would be unlikely to ever have a chosen because they do not trust anyone aside from themselves and enjoy the power they have and dislike giving it to others (ie. driders and the requirements to get the Shadow Weave feat). While dieties like Kossuth and the other elemental gods would never have a chosen...this probably could be extended to the demihuman pantheons as well, where an individual is more likely to recieve the blessing or favor of the diety. This isn't to say that it isn't necessarily impossible but rather the chosen would have to fulfill some sort of function for the diety and would be reflection of that dieties power (ie. the chosen of Mystra is and always will be more powerful than Lurue's). This is because a Greater Diety would have more power to share with their chosen, however, even this isn't necessarily a hard and fast rule as some Greater Dieties might be open to having a chosen, but give them a minimal amount of power (this goes back to the purpose factor). For instance, I'm working on a "chosen" for Selune. As a one time greater diety, that is now an Intermediate Diety due to her countless battles with her sister Shar. My rationale behind a "chosen" of Selune is to help aid the goddess in protecting her faithful from servants of Shar (who have killed many of Selune's worshippers, and is partially the reason that she has deminished in power) and likewise seeking to weaken the church of Shar on Toril. So in this case Selune's chosen will be a slightly more impressive divine champion - the reason being that although she has the need for a champion, her power is tenuous as she is in a constant struggle with Shar who continues to gain power. So instead of calling them a Chosen of Selune, they would be known as the Divine Champion of Selune (or something). This is something to remember amidst the abundance of chosen-mania, instead of having a chosen you could just as easily have a divinely touched, a blessed, and so on and so on.
Rek0 10-02-03, 11:44 PM	i dont think the issue for lolth and shar not having chosen is because they dont trust otheres, rather they dont want to give up any of their power
Kuje31 10-03-03, 12:02 AM	Liriel might have been a Chosen of Lloth for a time. Elaine hasn't said yes or no on the question. All she said is that Lloth and the priestess who told the Matron Mother that could have been lying.
kedi 10-03-03, 01:16 PM	Originally posted by Chronic Alcoholic Well isn't Mystra the only good with a legion of chosen? If that's so there is an easy solution, KILL MYSTRA WOTC don't you get it, we players HATE Mystra or at least most of us. and Yamo, I agree with you and always have looked at it in that way that only one chosen per deity I DO hate mystra!!(actually i hate midnight and myatra, not mystryl) hate elminster bevause its rediculus if a 3rd level priest casts "mass flesh to stone" and "teleportation circle" (in making of a mage) and whats the deal with giving birth to seven daughters?? and i especially hate qilue, chosen of mystra and elistrae geez come'on!
kedi 10-03-03, 01:20 PM	I hate those things, but love the rest of the fr world, don get me wrong