| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| WagnerSika02-04-08, 02:46 AM | In the newest Dragon Features column Bruce Cordell says "The world of Toril, its lost sibling Abeir, and even the planes themselves were infected with a plague of change." What the heck is this about the world of Abeir? When did the first part of the planets name got yanked off and appended to some "lost sibling"? What is this sibling? Alternate prime or twin planet? I did not see any mention of it in the Grand History of the Realms. There was something else in the article too: "Even the long forgotten world of Abeir burned in the plague of spells, despite having been unreachable and cut off from Faerūn for tens of millennia. Portions of Abeir’s landscape were transposed with areas of Toril in the disaster. Such landscapes included their living populations, and thus places such as Akanūl and Tymanther lie as if new-birthed on Faerūn’s face. Across the Trackless Sea, and entire continent of the lost realm reappeared (called Returned Abeir) subsuming the continent of Maztica." Wonder if those Dragonborn are form this Abeir? The Realms won't literally be the same... |
| MarkusTay6302-04-08, 03:10 AM | Yeah... they've been hinting about Abeir for awhile now, citing that in newer lore people only refer to the planet as Toril now, so somehow this 'Abeir' must have gotten lost along the way. Its weak, at best. :rolleyes: |
| Alediran02-04-08, 07:23 AM | It totaly lame, at least. Consistency -10 again for the designers. Don't worry, we'll continue to find every inconsistent piece of lore you create just for that nice event called the Spellplague you gave us, it's wartime. That would be a good reason for reading the new books (not buy them, only go to the LGS to check it and then come rant here) |
| Kenzuki02-04-08, 11:20 AM | Your tears taste so sweet. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-04-08, 01:02 PM | To answer the topic question: Not in my opinion. But my opinion doesn't matter to WotC. |
| Lord_Madrigan02-04-08, 01:31 PM | Congratulations Wizards of the coast. You just rapped your FR Fans. |
| Gray Richardson02-04-08, 07:54 PM | You guys play D&D, don't you? I thought having an imagination was a prerequisite for playing the game... ;) Don't prejudge the Abeir stuff. Can you not imagine any circumstances under which it might turn out be awesome? It may not float your boat yet because you haven't heard any of the details. Oh, but sit back and wait! When you finally get to see what they are doing you may be really surprised. The Abeir storyline is going to be a very interesting thing. It's not going to be lame. Well, of course, it all depends on how they write it. But from what I have heard, most of the Abeir material is being written by Ed Greenwood. Yes, THE Mr. Ed Greenwood who created the Realms, and I have never heard anyone accuse him of lacking an imagination. As for Abeir never being mentioned as a separate world before, well, there are actually a couple of good points in the history of the Realms where the worlds could have split from each other. The Sundering is one possibility. And then the Tearfall event around -31,000 DR might be another possible branching off point. I could also imagine some creative explanations to place it at other points in the timeline. I personally find the idea pretty viable. It's sooooo easy to jump on the bandwagon and lambaste a product you haven't read yet based off a sentence or two in some promo material. But don't be that guy! You want to be the guy that smiles knowingly and says that you knew all along how cool it was going to be. Because, brother, it's going to be very, very cool indeed! :cool: |
| Alediran02-04-08, 08:23 PM | Not for me, just the death of Mystra was enough to make it less than it was. |
| ikki02-04-08, 08:42 PM | so letsee... if you had a portal to maztica (and what economically expansive exploring party didnt?), that portal takes you still to maztica... on abeir!! Whoa.. that portal ride was rougher than it usually is. *picks themselves up*.. hey what are those guys? No idea, dont look like mazticans? Amnians, nah... lets blast! Yeah! Wham. Okie, lets talk to dead/simulcra. Who are you? Gives name. What are you doing on maztica? Maztica what? This worlds name.. Nope, this worlds name is Abeir! Abeir? Are you some weird maztican tribe? Nope, explorers from ... on abeir. What is this abeir? This world. Okie, getting seriously worried. Now what? Aargh.. brainstorm... okie, building a teleporting wizardeyed & hyper- eagleeyed irongolem- beholder.. and sending it orbital from where it collects data on how the continents are set up ( :) :D ) Now what, lets secure this end, take the bodies back home and make more simulcras for even more thruought interrogation. We must know everything there is to know about this abeir.. And then begin sending shadowkiira equipped greater doppleganger simulcra for infiltration and further information gathering. Eventually they may figure out part of abeir has arrived on toril, and with the first and best intelligence available make some profit there too ;) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-04-08, 08:44 PM | It's sooooo easy to jump on the bandwagon and lambaste a product you haven't read yet based off a sentence or two in some promo material. I'm not, I just have my own opinion about how I would do things in MY Realms. It doesn't bother me if WotC thinks things should be done differently...or, for that matter, if every other poster here would do things differently than I would. Because, brother, it's going to be very, very cool indeed!:cool: I'm not trying to pick a fight with you or anything, but you are doing what you just told people not to do--forming an opinion about a product you haven't even seen yet. Unless, of course, you HAVE read the new Abeir material. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-04-08, 08:46 PM | so letsee... if you had a portal to maztica (and what economically expansive exploring party didnt?), that portal takes you still to maztica... on abeir!! If the Abeir stuff interests me, that's more or less what I would do--put it on a different planet and put portals to it in the Realms. *shrug* I don't have to actually place it ON Toril to use it. Same goes for Tymanther. |
| Lord Karsus02-04-08, 11:52 PM | -That post so long ago from Dan concerning fanaticism still seems appropriate... |
| Iakhovas02-05-08, 12:43 AM | Which post would that be? |
| Lord Karsus02-05-08, 02:09 AM | Which post would that be? -This (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14023073&postcount=127) post from this (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=934185) thread. Though, it was a bit harsh. |
| Kenzuki02-05-08, 08:05 AM | You guys are cool and all, but you just won't be satisfied no matter what Wizards does I think. |
| Rauric02-05-08, 08:21 AM | I think your right, some folk on these boards would not be satisfied with anything WOTC did. If these boards are wearing on ya ya might want to take a break. Eventually you start to notice all the posts are all the same posted by all the same people. I stick around to see if I can get a glimmer of new information about anything. |
| Muradin02-05-08, 09:24 AM | off: I'm a newcomer to these forums, but i find it really good to "find" some people who have very similar opinions like i do, though I'm from across the ocean (and not from England, thats why my english sucks:) ) On: I'm not against changes, if these changes are corretly explained in novels or sourcebooks. But the kind of things that the WoTC did to Mystra (just because there will be a new magic system in the 4E that means they have to kill Mystra?) Yeah and my favourite thing is the 100 years jump ahead. They did (or going to do) this because the Spellplague absolutely destroyed half of Faerun, so the 100 years jump is necessary for the Realms just to be playable? or what? Thats the one thing that i completely can not accept. And the best thing with this is WoTC killed nearly all iconic characters of the Realms (Mirt for example, or what about Cattie-Brie?). What i'm trying to say is the changes aren't bad if it is explained correctly and it is serried,(like killing Khelben; unfortunately in my country i cant buy that stuff but i'd really like to read that one) but making a jump just because the rules are changing, well i think that's stupid. However i really like to know what's gonna be with this "Abeir" ( i just hope it is not gonna be something like Outlands in Warcraft). |
| RanielK02-05-08, 10:46 AM | You guys play D&D, don't you? I thought having an imagination was a prerequisite for playing the game... ;) Don't prejudge the Abeir stuff. Can you not imagine any circumstances under which it might turn out be awesome? It may not float your boat yet because you haven't heard any of the details. Oh, but sit back and wait! When you finally get to see what they are doing you may be really surprised. The Abeir storyline is going to be a very interesting thing. It's not going to be lame. Well, of course, it all depends on how they write it. But from what I have heard, most of the Abeir material is being written by Ed Greenwood. Yes, THE Mr. Ed Greenwood who created the Realms, and I have never heard anyone accuse him of lacking an imagination. As for Abeir never being mentioned as a separate world before, well, there are actually a couple of good points in the history of the Realms where the worlds could have split from each other. The Sundering is one possibility. And then the Tearfall event around -31,000 DR might be another possible branching off point. I could also imagine some creative explanations to place it at other points in the timeline. I personally find the idea pretty viable. It's sooooo easy to jump on the bandwagon and lambaste a product you haven't read yet based off a sentence or two in some promo material. But don't be that guy! You want to be the guy that smiles knowingly and says that you knew all along how cool it was going to be. Because, brother, it's going to be very, very cool indeed! :cool: I get most of my game playing through RPGA's organized play (LG mostly). I don't see that changing any time soon, as the circumstances which keep me from getting a regular home game aren't likely to change. I've heard some good things about 4e, now that some playtesters are allowed to leak their impressions (if not mechanics) of the new system. I plan to play in Living Forgotten Realms. I'll probably enjoy it immensly as long as the community I enjoy in LG comes along for the ride. That being said, this is definitely Lafar (or Liffer or what have you) and not the Realms. It has been so drastically changed and so warped and altered that it is not the Realms. It is a product they are calling Toril/FR, but it is not that product as it existed anywhere before 4e. I've heard a few argue that "this isn't Planescape with the FR logo so you can't say its not the Realms." That is not even close to relevant. Granted we aren't playing elves in space (Spelljammer) or cant speaking, faction supporting, planewalking bauriar, but it doesn't have to be so drastic as that to not be FR. This is a newly WoTC-designed setting whcih happens to have imported a few place names, a town or two, a handful of iconic FR NPCs and some vaguely referrenced shared history from the Realms we know and love. It is a smashed and pillaged landscape that still is a smoking ruin. It may be fun to play in in its own right, but is not where I'll go when I want to play in the Realms. |
| MarkusTay6302-05-08, 11:03 AM | Right now I'm sitting on a VERY shakey fence - some things I love (most of the new rules), while others I hate (too long to list). I'm trying to figure out how to put a different spin on the things WotC has changed, rather then blindly accepting some of their 'less-then-creative' reasons for things. I will most likely use the 4e world, but I will come up with better canon-based reasons for all the changes, not create some silly Deux ex Machina 'forgotten World' scenario. However, I will first take a look at the 4e FRCG before I decide which parts of THEIR lore to disregard - I have my own back-up plans, but I'm not THAT egotistical; some of their back-story may actually be better then my own. :rolleyes: I'm trying to not be as vocal as I once was, even though I'm not liking a lot of what I'm hearing, simply because we haven't heard the whole story yet. That means that being a WotC 'Cheerleader' is just as silly as being a naysayer - how can you make a final decision based on 'sneak peaks'? It appears that has alienated me from both sides of the 'conflict', but so be it - a few, like Charles Phipps, seem to be on the same page as me, and are willing to put up with these terrible-sounding previews until we have a final product. And besides, I'd much rather try to 'mend' the lore, then abandon all hope for the Realms. ;) |
| GothicDan02-05-08, 11:07 AM | I think your right, some folk on these boards would not be satisfied with anything WOTC did. If these boards are wearing on ya ya might want to take a break. Eventually you start to notice all the posts are all the same posted by all the same people. I stick around to see if I can get a glimmer of new information about anything. Except in a few rare cases, WotC's already lost whatever faith I had in them. To me, bits of FR did die with 3E. Of course, they don't care about me as a person, and I don't expect them to. I can only hope that now and then a light of quality (in my opinion of quality) will shine through now and then. |
| GothicDan02-05-08, 11:09 AM | Markus: I still love you. It's okay! |
| Lord Karsus02-05-08, 02:00 PM | It appears that has alienated me from both sides of the 'conflict', but so be it - a few, like Charles Phipps, seem to be on the same page as me, and are willing to put up with these terrible-sounding previews until we have a final product. -The only thing alienating you from anything and anyone is that radical stance you have on Orcs. :P |
| MarkusTay6302-05-08, 11:43 PM | Maybe its because they remind me of my first girlfriend... Hey! She gave good tusk... :P |
| Lord Karsus02-06-08, 01:18 AM | Maybe its because they remind me of my first girlfriend... Hey! She gave good tusk... :P :yuck: -Maybe she was an Abeiration (Eh? Eh? I still remember) from Abeir. |
| Mula02-06-08, 02:32 AM | Abeir is the Realms' version of the Far Realm or Xoriat. |
| Lord Karsus02-06-08, 02:39 AM | Abeir is the Realms' version of the Far Realm or Xoriat. -The Far Realms already exist, as an Imaskari pseudodivine entity created to fight against deities, Pandorym, has a link to the Far Realms. |
| Gallameed02-06-08, 04:06 AM | I say we should give this a chance. Lots of these ideas sounds very refreshing. |
| Faraer02-06-08, 06:21 AM | Yeah... they've been hinting about Abeir for awhile now, citing that in newer lore people only refer to the planet as Toril now, so somehow this 'Abeir' must have gotten lost along the way.The claim that people only refer to the planet as 'Toril' isn't true. |
| Lord Karsus02-06-08, 12:02 PM | I say we should give this a chance. Lots of these ideas sounds very refreshing. -You're insane, so...:P The claim that people only refer to the planet as 'Toril' isn't true. -99.9% of the sources out there simply shorten 'Abeir-Toril' to just 'Toril', which is where I think the entire problem stems from. I know I try to always write 'Abeir-Toril', but everyone is not me. Sourcebooks, novels, adventures have all been saying simply 'Toril' for quite a long time. This is what caused the "seperation" between the two, and led the designers to attempt to literally seperate the two. |
| MarkusTay6302-06-08, 01:43 PM | So, you're saying the two worlds drifted apart out of laziness, not because of anything 'magical'? :eek: ;) :D |
| Lord Karsus02-06-08, 02:13 PM | So, you're syaing the two worlds drifted apart out of laziness, not because of anything 'magical'? :eek: ;) :D -In actuality, yes, if you want to consider them different entities. In game terms, of course there will some kind of explanation. |
| JaiaDrottsingr02-06-08, 04:20 PM | What the heck is this crap? I do remember hearing about the world of Albier-Toril in reference to Faerun, but that was in recent literature. Plus the thing I heard had an L. |
| Lord Karsus02-06-08, 04:37 PM | What the heck is this crap? -The Orc King novel referenced a "merging of two world". Some soon came to take this as the reemergence of 'Abeir', as it was noted somewhere along the line that in AGHotR the 'Abeir' in 'Abeir-Toril' was no longer being written. The novel Stardeep alluded to the idea that 'Abeir' was a world (plane, in my estimation) that was once joined with 'Toril', but had at some point become disjointed from it. The recent web articles affirm that 'Abeir' and 'Toril' are now, cannonically, two seperate entities, (something that they have never been in the past) and that 'Abeir' will be returning, partially, perhaps, to 'Toril', where Maztica once was. I do remember hearing about the world of Albier-Toril in reference to Faerun, but that was in recent literature. Plus the thing I heard had an L. -You're either remembering incorrectly, or there was a typo. It's been 'Abeir', with no 'L', since, like, 1st edition. |
| JaiaDrottsingr02-06-08, 10:38 PM | -You're either remembering incorrectly, or there was a typo. It's been 'Abeir', with no 'L', since, like, 1st edition. Salvatore really needs to get a better editor. |
| MarkusTay6302-06-08, 11:01 PM | No, WotC needs to actually go out and HIRE editors... :rolleyes: Did you guys catch that last article (Magic in FR) BEFORE they fixed all the typos? My 16 yr old writes better. :bored: And I usually enjoy everything Mr. Cordell does. |
| JaiaDrottsingr02-06-08, 11:06 PM | where Maztica once was. Once?! |
| Lord Karsus02-07-08, 12:12 AM | Once?! -Read this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20080111a) and this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20080130a), and tell me what you think. Maztica is specifically mentioned in the second link, if you are short on time. -And, if it says you need to log-in, your log-in information is the same as your boards log-in information. |
| sunmaster02-07-08, 01:11 AM | -Read this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20080111a) and this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20080130a), and tell me what you think. Maztica is specifically mentioned in the second link, if you are short on time. -And, if it says you need to log-in, your log-in information is the same as your boards log-in information. You don't need to log in. Just scroll to the bottom of the page an click "Printer friendly". Try it and have fun! LOL |
| JaiaDrottsingr02-07-08, 05:29 PM | -Read this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20080111a) and this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20080130a), and tell me what you think. Maztica is specifically mentioned in the second link, if you are short on time. -And, if it says you need to log-in, your log-in information is the same as your boards log-in information. Holy crap... 4e is a horrible place to live, er, RP in... |
| The Ubbergeek02-07-08, 05:50 PM | Holy crap... 4e is a horrible place to live, er, RP in... Considering what was Thay, or even Mulhorand, on some aspects it may be better after the world settles back again. Easy to judge without seeing the done product also. Wait and see then. |
| Lord Karsus02-07-08, 06:46 PM | Holy crap... 4e is a horrible place to live, er, RP in... -Indeed. -All this, ladies and gentlemen, from a "non-grognard". |
| Mula02-08-08, 12:17 AM | 4e Realms looks like a pretty COOL place to game. All this from a gamer who likes the Realms. |
| Gallameed02-08-08, 10:29 AM | -You're insane, so...:P Charming... as ever... ;) |
| Lord Karsus02-09-08, 12:38 AM | Charming... as ever... ;) -Hey, I'm not the one who spoke of random 'cabbagebois', and had a MuP of 'Gallaweed', so...:P |
| Gallameed02-09-08, 09:20 AM | -Hey, I'm not the one who spoke of random 'cabbagebois', and had a MuP of 'Gallaweed', so...:P "Cabbagebois?" I can't remember? :O -I recall Gallaweed and the giraffe madness... |
| Lord Karsus02-09-08, 09:36 AM | :O -I recall Gallaweed and the giraffe madness... -Good times, good times...Ah, I forgot about Giraffameed. |
| RanielK02-09-08, 10:14 AM | The claim that people only refer to the planet as 'Toril' isn't true. Yeah, considering it did indeed start as Abeir-Toril ("Cradle of Life"), one has to wonder where they get this long lost sibling thing. The closest I get is either, a) they really need some plot device to further hose the Realms, or b) Ed really did view Abeir-Toril as the name of the system and Abeir and Toril as two distinct planets. Just a thought. |
| Lord Karsus02-09-08, 10:39 AM | b) Ed really did view Abeir-Toril as the name of the system and Abeir and Toril as two distinct planets. Just a thought. -Even so, as things are seemingly being handled right now, with Abberations at the forefront of 'Abeir', it seems very shoehorned in. As I've said numerous times now, the entire idea of an Abberation empire attempting to colonize Toril during the mists of the planet's prehistory, long before the Creator Races, seems forced and out of place. |
| MarkusTay6302-09-08, 01:14 PM | It really depends on how they handle this - I actually like the idea that Faerie (Feywild) and the Shadoworld (Shadowfel) have been 'out of sync' for some time, and are now more 'coterminous' and available to adventure in. Thats easily explained by the lack of the Weave - as sad as it is to say, Mystra was a bit of a Tyrant herself, in that she blocked all other forms of magic that did not access her Weave, which would mean Fey and Shadow magic. Shar eventually found a work-around for that (as did Pluma-Weavers and perhaps others), but it does fit canon that with Mystra gone, other sources of power - and therefore the planes they are connected to - have become more readily available. That means that the Weave was not only an "easy to use" interface, but also inluded anti-virus and spyware stuff as well. It made magic easier to use, but took away any real power, and blocked anything else out that may prove 'harmful' (which to Mystra, would have been ANY magic she herself did not have dominion over). So, Mystra's dead and her Weave crumbles - and without that big 'ol magical shield keeping the nastiness at bay, a titanic magical backlash sweeps across the face of Toril - re-writing or erasing many of the 'Older magics' in the processs. All of those other transient planes whose connections have been supressed start seeping into the Realms simultaneously, creating the Apocalyspe known as the Spellplague. Okay... I can but all that... perhaps even grow to like it... But I still don't 'get' Abeir. :confused: If it was just another transient Plane that all other Primes touch, then I could lump it into the category above with Faerie and Shadow, and even the Elemental Tempest (although that one is also a little harder to swallow). However, saying it was some sort of 'sister world' is just plain wierd. Here's my thoughts on this - I have always pictured Toril as the CENTER of the Prime Material Plane, just as the Outlands are/were the center of the Cosmic Wheel. My Cosmological Background: In my own over-cosmology, when GOD bid the powers and Primordials (yes, I had these over-beings 20 years before WotC thought of them) to create races for the newly formed Prime Material Plane (created from the body of Ymir, one of the Elder Gods, who are even above primordials), the Concordant Opposition (later called the Outlands after the projects were abandoned) became the Universe's 'experimental laboratory'. All of the races and creatures that would one day seed the multi-verse and all of the Crystal Spheres started THERE, and if they proved viable, they were moved to the Prime. So with Toril as the bright center of the Prime Material Plane, most races were seeded there first, and then spread to other worlds. That means the Outlands was the laboratory, but Toril was the testing grounds. Powers and Elder beings created a vast array of portals to accomplish this seeding, first from the outer planes to Toril, and then from there to all the other worlds in the Prime Material Plane. However, outside of the Multi-verse existed a being of incredible power and alien evil. This dark area beyond all known planes became known as the Far Realms (as opposed to Toril, which at that time was just called 'The Realms'). It created it it's own 'mockery' of Toril - a bizarre, twisted version filled with corruption. It also filled it's world with creatures that were likewise twisted versions of the beings that dwelled within the normal universe. These creatures became known as Aberrations, and their world as 'Abeir'. For each of the first races created and placed upon Toril (the Creator Races), the Dark Malevolence created his own version - the Illithid, the Beholders, the Aboleth, etc... At some point in the distant past, the creatures of that twisted, parallel world tried to invade Toril, using their bizarre, psuedonatural energies to join the two worlds permanently. Much destruction and confusion took place upon the young world, and for centuries the first races were hunted and killed by their evil dopplegangers. At first, Ao did nothing, even though the powers pleaded with him to save their creations. The Aberrations then began to build strange vessels, capable of traversing the Astral Seas, in order to spread their infection to other worlds. This Ao could not allow, and he commanded Mystra to erect a shield that would repel the world of Abeir from Toril, seprating the two for all time. Without a base to launch their attacks from, the remaining Aberrations fled Underground, or into Arcane Space (the Astral), and were never able to fully recover and rebuild their power base without the connection to Abeir, that filthy bastard-child of the Far Realms. Mystra's Shield, which eventually became known as the Weave, would grow, and she would add many new attributes to it over the millenia. Unfortunely, it was a little too effective, and manged to distance Toril from many other planes as well - planes that it had many more connections to when the powers had first seeded the worlds. In time, the other worlds and planes forgot about 'The Realms' located on the far side of the inactive portals, and thus the Forgotten Realms earned that monicker at last. But... for those few beings ancient enough to remember... Toril was not the only 'FR' in the Universe... :coolcthul Does that work for any of you? |
| XHereticX02-09-08, 01:15 PM | Your tears taste so sweet. 50 points:D |
| MarkusTay6302-09-08, 01:21 PM | So people who aggro (bait) others are worth more to you then those that try to reconcile some of the old lore with the new? :confused: |
| Lord Karsus02-09-08, 01:31 PM | But I still don't 'get' Abeir. :confused: -I told Rino, and I'll tell you, too. Just stop thinking about it. It's much simpler. :P -As for your explanation...Sure, that all looks good. Truthfully, if there was some, any kind of inkling that 'Abeir' was not the first part of 'Abeir-Toril', I'd see no real problem with it. The closest I can think of it a cryptic remark by Ed about a year or two ago about the moon. -Presuming that 'Abeir' and 'Toril' were always two seperate entites, that's fine. But, what really throws a wrench in things is that, even after 'Abeir' was 'ejected', the planet is still 'Abeir-Toril'. See what I'm saying here... |
| XHereticX02-09-08, 01:52 PM | -I told Rino, and I'll tell you, too. Just stop thinking about it. It's much simpler. :P -As for your explanation...Sure, that all looks good. Truthfully, if there was some, any kind of inkling that 'Abeir' was not the first part of 'Abeir-Toril', I'd see no real problem with it. The closest I can think of it a cryptic remark by Ed about a year or two ago about the moon. -Presuming that 'Abeir' and 'Toril' were always two seperate entites, that's fine. But, what really throws a wrench in things is that, even after 'Abeir' was 'ejected', the planet is still 'Abeir-Toril'. See what I'm saying here... So you are advising ignorance because it is bliss. You fail:cool: I love your explanation Markus, and that Toril was the first world makes me feel warm and giddy inside :D |
| Lord Karsus02-09-08, 02:11 PM | So you are advising ignorance because it is bliss. You fail:cool: -Your momma failed. -Causing MT to ignore all of the consistencies would make him feel better, as he's not worrying about them. Thus, he takes his time to...make his brother a birthday card. In turn, his brother gets it, and is especially nice to his coworkers, and so on. Thus, the cycle begins. -But, no, I do not support the concept of 'ignorance is bliss'. |
| XHereticX02-09-08, 02:21 PM | -Your momma failed. -Causing MT to ignore all of the consistencies would make him feel better, as he's not worrying about them. Thus, he takes his time to...make his brother a birthday card. In turn, his brother gets it, and is especially nice to his coworkers, and so on. Thus, the cycle begins. -But, no, I do not support the concept of 'ignorance is bliss'. Yet it also deprives many net individuals who are just dying for a relief to WoTC inconsistancy at least temporary relief and give MT himself a good outlit for inspiration that could possibly do much good for humanity in the future. Your momma got 75 points, a huge improvement over last week:P |
| MarkusTay6302-09-08, 02:23 PM | Thank you... it sort of makes sense, considering the Descent Curse took place on Toril, but somehow effected Dark Elves everywhere. That must mean Toril has some sort of significance that places it 'above' other Prime Worlds. Also, it appears Mystra's downfall somehow has re-arranged the entire cosmos, which also lends some credence to my theory that Toril was the original prime 'Realm', and remains a fulcrum (perhaps when tied to the other two worlds that are part of the Stable Triad) upon which most of the Prime Material Plane is balanced. @LK - I tried to cover all the bases, including the fact that both worlds have the word 'Realm' in their names. Basically, they were seperate, but around the time the Creator Races rose to power, they were (artificially) merged. This means that in the beginning days, the planet would have been just 'Toril', but there were no civilizations to refer to it that way. By the time the first races were advanced enough to know about such things, Abeir would have merged, and the oldest records surviving from that time would have referred to it as Abeir-Toril. After the Fall of the Creator races, all the various offspring would have continued to use the misnomer, even though Abeir would have been seperated from Toril at that point. The world is once again merely 'Toril', as most of the common folk and newer texts suggest, but older works and scholars would still use the 'archaic' form of the name, not realizing it no longer applies. I think that would make all the previous canon lore still work - I just HATE the idea of changing the old lore, as do most of us, so I'd rather blend it together more seamlessly. I think GK would approve. ;) |
| Lord Karsus02-09-08, 02:25 PM | Yet it also deprives many net individuals who are just dying for a relief to WoTC inconsistancy at least temporary relief and give MT himself a good outlit for inspiration that could possibly do much good for humanity in the future. -Making MT happy is worth more 'Good', as he is a larger (physically and theoretically) presence here than some other random, unnamed people, who make one or two posts, and then are never heard or seen from again. Your momma got 75 points, a huge improvement over last week:P -I don't know my momma. I'm an orphan.... -No, that's complete bull, but that would have stopped that conversation right there in it's tracks. :P |
| Lord Karsus02-09-08, 02:29 PM | @LK - I tried to cover all the bases, including the fact that both worlds have the word 'Realm' in their names. Basically, they were seperate, but around the time the Creator Races rose to power, they were (artificially) merged. This means that in the beginning days, the planet would have been just 'Toril', but there were no civilizations to refer to it that way. By the time the first races were advanced enough to know about such things, Abeir would have merged, and the oldest records surviving from that time would have referred to it as Abeir-Toril. After the Fall of the Creator races, all the various offspring would have continued to use the misnoomer, even though Abeir would have been seperated from Toril at that point. The world is once again merely 'Toril', as most of the common folk and newer texts suggest, but older works and scholars would still use the 'archaic' form of the name, not realizing it no longer applies. -There are no 'older records'. The Abberations and 'Abeir' were repelled long before the dawn of recorded history. The only ones who know the truth (and the only way I could justify that is by hypothesizing that the five missing Yuir deities were the ones who sacrificed themselves to send 'Abeir' away) are the Star Elves of Stardeep, who serve the Cerulean Sign. -The oldest records, which would be from the Creator Races, would have been written long, long after 'Abeir' was already flung away. |
| XHereticX02-09-08, 02:30 PM | -Making MT happy is worth more 'Good', as he is a larger (physically and theoretically) presence here than some other random, unnamed people, who make one or two posts, and then are never heard or seen from again. -I don't know my momma. I'm an orphan.... -No, that's complete bull, but that would have stopped that conversation right there in it's tracks. :P That goes against Utilitarianism, as quantity is above quality (something which I don't completly agree with yet, but I have to think about it). But remember, if all of those net people get angry, they will cause much misery to those around them, and so on and so forth, multiple cycles of despair will spring into existance, some of them affecting people who may be greater than MT. So it dosen't matter either way. -155 points.:cool: |
| MarkusTay6302-09-08, 02:34 PM | I don't want to get 'too happy'.. then I'll sart touching myself again... and that could get messy... :rolleyes: :P -Causing MT to ignore all of the consistencies would make him feel better, as he's not worrying about them. Thus, he takes his time to...make his brother a birthday card. In turn, his brother gets it, and is especially nice to his coworkers, and so on. Thus, the cycle begins.I HATE my brother - he's a worthless drunk. As opposed to myself, who is just worthless. :D |
| XHereticX02-09-08, 02:40 PM | I don't want to get 'too happy'.. then I'll sart touching myself again... and that could get messy... :rolleyes: :P Weird, I do that when I'm unhappy. Good stress reliever.:) |
| Lord Karsus02-09-08, 02:56 PM | -You sick, sick people...:nonono: -We have children here! And girls! |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-10-08, 07:57 PM | -Even so, as things are seemingly being handled right now, with Abberations at the forefront of 'Abeir', it seems very shoehorned in. As I've said numerous times now, the entire idea of an Abberation empire attempting to colonize Toril during the mists of the planet's prehistory, long before the Creator Races, seems forced and out of place. Yeah, that was wonky. I understand that Bruce Cordell likes sci/fi-ish, Lovecraftian stuff, but I don't think it fits well in the Realms setting. :-/ |
| Lord Karsus02-10-08, 08:37 PM | Yeah, that was wonky. I understand that Bruce Cordell likes sci/fi-ish, Lovecraftian stuff, but I don't think it fits well in the Realms setting. :-/ -If it were in a more minor place, I'd have less of a problem with it. For example, if we were told that recently, the Aboleth were trying to make inroads in taking over the world, recently, that Stardeep was built to contain the Traitor recently, and so on and so on. Then, I'd say, "Cool." -On it's own, I like the idea of an insidious Abberation threat and whatever, but not in the form that the designers seem to be placeing it in. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-10-08, 08:41 PM | -If it were in a more minor place, I'd have less of a problem with it. For example, if we were told that recently, the Aboleth were trying to make inroads in taking over the world, recently, that Stardeep was built to contain the Traitor recently, and so on and so on. Then, I'd say, "Cool." -On it's own, I like the idea of an insidious Abberation threat and whatever, but not in the form that the designers seem to be placeing it in. Yeah, I could agree with that--a threat from abberations? That's fine. But abberations seem to have been given a place of great prominence and importance (ie. they were in Toril before anything else was, ever! And only the Order of the Cerulean Sign can stop them!), and I find that rather silly. |
| Lord Karsus02-10-08, 08:53 PM | Yeah, I could agree with that--a threat from abberations? That's fine. But abberations seem to have been given a place of great prominence and importance (ie. they were in Toril before anything else was, ever! And only the Order of the Cerulean Sign can stop them!), and I find that rather silly. -Yup. |
| MarkusTay6302-11-08, 12:21 AM | But... before there was anything... there was... Cthulhu!!! :88E: Yup, just another example of someone in charge force-fitting something he likes into a place where it doesn't belong. It's like the Shadow Weave fiasco all over again. :( |
| Lord Karsus02-11-08, 12:46 AM | Yup, just another example of someone in charge force-fitting something he likes into a place where it doesn't belong. -I can only hope we're wrong, though the Shadow Weave in and of itself wasn't necessarily bad. It was all of the subsequent support, explanations and answers that soured it. |
| TheLemming02-12-08, 02:23 AM | Good morning to all of you, I've been a long time reader of the old and new boards and finally found a quiet minute to write a short post about what I think about all these changes. I've started with Curse of the Azure Bonds into the realms. I still remember quite well about Alias, the bladeback paladin and the red dragon Mist... Those things one hardly ever forgets... I remember how much love they put into the 2nd edition forgotten realms boxed setting, the mere details were incredible. Back then I had pretty all different campaign settings for AD&D, but the realms were different. No doubt several of you will remember Myrkul, the Time of Troubles - an event that just took place and - changed so very much from the things we knew - but it felt good back then - at least to me, this was kinda "within limits" and all with good reason. Now I won't complain about Mystra's death, honestly I thought about this and gods of magic in a world where gods "are" magic, give magic .... never felt that real and important to me. I liked Mystra, Azuth and Shar in these aspects quite a lot, but Mystra as weavekeeper or the weave itself wasn't the best concept - though i have to admit it felt like fantasty and it's quite common to have one in a fantasy setting. On the other hand, Tyr's dispute with Helm as I read it the first time felt like a children dispute - it felt far too human and not godlike. It just did not feel right - it was not the realms for me. And now the spellplague, god-changes, toril-changes and Abeiir re?-appearing. Abeir-Toril formerly Toril - well whatever it is, I don't see the point of it - I mean honestly - why is it necessary to make that many changes and reshape the whole world? I agree with many posters that claim this lacks consistency, this lacks sense. I agree with others that a new world, a new settings would have been a better idea than destroying so much of that one beloved setting. We'll I guess most of us will stick with 4e - but I have to admit, you finally made me thing about changing the setting. I've recently (ok several months ago) bought Ptolus and I have to admit, that is nicely done. It's not the realms but it does have a similiar spirit, while it is only one city. So my temporary solution will be to ignore most of the realms' change and incorporate Ptolus into mine as a city of size and power quite similiar to Waterdeep. Still I hope that when FR 4e will be released there will be more clues and not just weird plots going on - i honestly hope there will be a way to unite a few of those new beginnings and find a consistency. (though I doubt it) |
| MarkusTay6302-12-08, 04:16 PM | You could always play in Ed Greenwood's Castlemourn (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=24472&it=1)... If you want to play in a world that has just recovered from a devastating magical catastrphe... Oh... wait... Hmmmm... me-thinks me sees a pattern here... :rolleyes: |
| Lord Karsus02-12-08, 08:16 PM | If you want to play in a world that has just recovered from a devastating magical catastrphe... Oh... wait... Hmmmm... me-thinks me sees a pattern here... :rolleyes: -Hmm, seems that's the buzz these days. Everyone's recovering from widespread catastrophe... |
| MarkusTay6302-12-08, 11:30 PM | With all this talk of global warming, people are cozying up to the idea of surviving in a post-apocalyptic world. :rolleyes: |
| Lord Karsus02-13-08, 12:27 AM | With all this talk of global warming, people are cozying up to the idea of surviving in a post-apocalyptic world. :rolleyes: -Ah, yes, Global Warming... |
| Kieran_Immerdusk02-13-08, 12:02 PM | -Ah, yes, Global Warming... Perhaps the Realms, as a medieval fantasy world, are getting a dose of medieval reality... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period Perhaps I'll make an order of monks dedicated to Auril that is dedicated to fighting the recession of the High Ice in the post-apocalyptic Realms... :P |
| Lord Karsus02-13-08, 01:14 PM | Perhaps I'll make an order of monks dedicated to Auril that is dedicated to fighting the recession of the High Ice in the post-apocalyptic Realms... :P -Don't have to necessarily be Monks... |
| Alediran02-13-08, 01:16 PM | Wizards and Sorcerers are better, since they can cast Cone of Cold :rofl: |
| Lord Karsus02-13-08, 01:32 PM | Wizards and Sorcerers are better, since they can cast Cone of Cold :rofl: -Get enough of them, and they'll reverse the global warming. |
| Markustay02-13-08, 03:07 PM | Actually, the idea of 'Frost Monks' appeals to me a LOT. :) Instead of that 'Quivering Touch' attack, they could get something like 'Suspended Animation', where they touch someone and they Freeze instantly. After all, the core ability sounds like simple molecular aggitation, so why couldn't a group practice the reverse, stopping ALL atomic movement? Absolute Zero, anyone? :D Also, having them dress in outfits ala Captain Cold would be just awesome. :dancin: http://images.wikia.com/marvel_dc/images/7/7b/Captain_Cold-3-.jpg A Frost Monk PrC... Hmmmmmm... :plotting: |
| Kieran_Immerdusk02-14-08, 12:25 AM | Actually, the idea of 'Frost Monks' appeals to me a LOT. :) Instead of that 'Quivering Touch' attack, they could get something like 'Suspended Animation', where they touch someone and they Freeze instantly. After all, the core ability sounds like simple molecular aggitation, so why couldn't a group practice the reverse, stopping ALL atomic movement? Absolute Zero, anyone? :D Also, having them dress in outfits ala Captain Cold would be just awesome. :dancin: http://images.wikia.com/marvel_dc/images/7/7b/Captain_Cold-3-.jpg A Frost Monk PrC... Hmmmmmm... :plotting: Aside from the picture, that actually is a pretty cool idea. (Pun intended) :D |
| XHereticX02-15-08, 08:49 PM | With all this talk of global warming, people are cozying up to the idea of surviving in a post-apocalyptic world. :rolleyes: Bah, all these settings are all just insults to Dragonlance, the one true post-apocalyptic setting. Then again, they ruined Dragonlance for me the moment they killed off Paladine and Takhisis. Castlemourn looks interesting however. |
| GoldDragon02-15-08, 08:49 PM | If the Abeir stuff interests me, that's more or less what I would do--put it on a different planet and put portals to it in the Realms. *shrug* I don't have to actually place it ON Toril to use it. Same goes for Tymanther. Long ago Far away There was a folk who had a dream And the Power And the Will And the Way............ Could be a "Shattered World" the like the Ultima Series we are talking about much like Earth and the Ultima Realms were inter-related then the connections where broken by a magical catastrophe, and then in the Ultima Realm the Lands were "Side Spaced" where the Land "sunk and Disappeared" including Shamino's Kingdom but later in Ultima 7:part 2 its a "separate land" reached only via the Serpent Gates and survivors of the "shattered World" isolated on that side went Mad (thus "Serpent Ilses) Likewise Gulfs where lands used to be and Lands suddenly appearing or being assessable seems a little, um, "Ravenloftish" as well....as since "The Mists" can reach into anywhere in the Multiverse it isn't to far fetched that it's might have taken a good chunk of the old civilizations and lands away (cause their was people that could be "evil" or "coveted" enough by the "Dark Powers" back then...like the Iskari) and then "Boom" Suddenly the Old lands fall right back in to the Forgotten Realms space cause a "dark power" farted and the Sharr and Halruurahahahaha is gone....lol |
| The Ubbergeek02-15-08, 09:08 PM | the Ultima world could make a fine D20 setting. :cool: |
| Markustay02-15-08, 11:34 PM | I'll probably get 'jumped' for this, but I think the MtG setting would make an incredible D20 RPG. |
| MarkusTay6302-16-08, 12:20 AM | I got the Sarlona Eberron book this week, and I'm going through it. I found THIS bit about a rather hectic region very interresting - Adar is a land plucked from some other realm. Among the mountains that spring from southern Sarlona, manifestations of other worlds and the natural results of such interference conspire to produce a forbidding environment. Yet, amid unforgiving peaks and between terrible storms, life thrives and evolves. Sound familiar? :rolleyes: |
| Lord Karsus02-16-08, 06:44 AM | I'll probably get 'jumped' for this, but I think the MtG setting would make an incredible D20 RPG. -Didn't they already do that? I mean, there already is a novel line, so... |
| MarkusTay6302-16-08, 11:23 AM | Strangely, its the one promise WotC has kept, and probably the only one they shouldn't have! When WotC first bought TSR, fans of D&D complained that they would be turning D&D into MtG, or at least creating a setting around it. They swore they wouldn't. Considering that MtG is based around Planeswalkers, it was a perfect fit for Planescape - in fact, they can take most of the MtG fluff and dump it right into the 4e Planes and it would work just fine. The fluff is excellent, and most of the artwork is great - it really is a no-brainer to develop that stuff at least as 'alternate planar regions' for D&D games. Hopefully, we will see some of that in 4e, because a lot of it has originality; something that has been sorely lacking in WotC's other endeavors as of late. |
| Lord Karsus02-16-08, 11:37 AM | Strangely, its the one promise WotC has kept, and probably the only one they shouldn't have! -Go figure. |
| XHereticX02-16-08, 02:10 PM | Strangely, its the one promise WotC has kept, and probably the only one they shouldn't have! When WotC first bought TSR, fans of D&D complained that they would be turning D&D into MtG, or at least creating a setting around it. They swore they wouldn't. Considering that MtG is based around Planeswalkers, it was a perfect fit for Planescape - in fact, they can take most of the MtG fluff and dump it right into the 4e Planes and it would work just fine. The fluff is excellent, and most of the artwork is great - it really is a no-brainer to develop that stuff at least as 'alternate planar regions' for D&D games. Hopefully, we will see some of that in 4e, because a lot of it has originality; something that has been sorely lacking in WotC's other endeavors as of late. As long as they don't try to oversimplify magic using the 5 color system, that sounds pretty good to me. |
| Dark Wizard02-17-08, 12:17 AM | As long as they don't try to oversimplify magic using the 5 color system, that sounds pretty good to me. As opposed to what they're doing to spellcasting in 4e? :P I'm sure if they actually adapt MtG to d20 they would modify the five color system to fit, maintaining the flavor while introducing complexity to rival the standard system. After all only the Realms gets the Spellplague where logic and continuity is defenestrated with surprising casualness. |
| MarkusTay6302-17-08, 12:31 AM | Five color? You mean the Arcane, Umbral, Chaos, Diabolic, and Feral Power sources? :P |
| Dark Wizard02-17-08, 12:53 AM | See that wasn't so hard was it? Setting #3 to come out of 4E will be a cross promotion between MtG and D&D (sorry Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Mystara, Dark Sun, Planescape, or Spelljammer, etc. fans). WotC owns both trademarks for Magic and Dragon, thus 3e's Dragon Magic supplement. They will likely recycle that name for 4E. |
| Lord Karsus02-17-08, 09:15 AM | (sorry Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Mystara, Dark Sun, Planescape, or Spelljammer, etc. fans). -Sorry? They're lucky. |
| JaiaDrottsingr02-17-08, 03:55 PM | I'll probably get 'jumped' for this, but I think the MtG setting would make an incredible D20 RPG. Spells would be way too overpowered. Y'know that one that they drop lava on to destroy one enemy. 10,000 dmg. |
| GothicDan02-17-08, 03:59 PM | It would be an Epic spell. That being said, a D20 Magic world is one of the few things that I think WotC could do right. |
| Yaeri02-19-08, 08:54 AM | It would be an Epic spell. That being said, a D20 Magic world is one of the few things that I think WotC could do right. I'm tempted. What are the other things? :D |
| Lord Karsus02-19-08, 09:00 AM | Spells would be way too overpowered. Y'know that one that they drop lava on to destroy one enemy. 10,000 dmg. -Well, things could also be toned down. Do you really think someone could actually survive after being struck by a Meteor Swarm? It doesn't have to be wholly realistic. |
| RanielK02-19-08, 09:39 AM | -Well, things could also be toned down. Do you really think someone could actually survive after being struck by a Meteor Swarm? It doesn't have to be wholly realistic. Yeah, but I would so want the Armageddon and Wrath of God spells. That would be Epic if ever there was one. Destroy the world and all life on it in two "easy" steps, ftw (or some demented version of ftw). |
| Lord Karsus02-19-08, 09:44 AM | Yeah, but I would so want the Armageddon and Wrath of God spells. That would be Epic if ever there was one. Destroy the world and all life on it in two "easy" steps, ftw (or some demented version of ftw). -You can have those...Well, maybe not, as you want to destroy the world. But, point is, if someone can survive being pummel by flaming meteors, why couldn't they survive having lava poured on them? |