Abeir-Toril vs. Toril: Tearfall [Archive] - Wizards Community

Abeir-Toril vs. Toril: Tearfall [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Reneshat
09-29-07, 12:41 AM I don't remember where it was, but at one point Ed (at least I think it was Ed) mentioned the fact that Abeir-Toril pretty much moved to just Toril, and we would find out why (or at least more about it). So I finally got my copy of GHotR yesterday, and the name change occurs during Tearfall. All it mentions in the book was the creation of the Sea of Fallen Stars, and the introduction of Dragons to the world. I was wondering if someone could fill me in on why Tearfall would lead to moving from Abeir-Toril to simply Toril. Thank you.
GothicDan
09-29-07, 12:44 AM Selune's Tears...

The Moon?
Old Sage
09-29-07, 01:36 AM Ed's already confirmed that the mysterious nature of "Abeir-Toril" has virtually nothing to do with the concept of a *moon* as such. What little we do know, was revealed through this somewhat cryptic response from the Lady Hooded One:-

"No, Toril is not (and never was) a moon. But (though NDAs prevent me from saying one word more on this), I remind scribes that the name is Abeir-Toril, and for the last few decades, all we've seen is Toril. Hint. Hint.
love,
THO"
MarkusTay63
09-29-07, 02:26 AM Hmmmm...

That coupled with the other cryptic hint that the Spellplague and coming disaster had it's 'roots' in the ToT would leave one to believe that the split may have occurred then.

Hmmmmmmm... :thinks:

Maybe we will see a ressurection of Mystra 1.0? :dancin:

You know... that might actually be a pretty decent way of changing things.
Reneshat
09-29-07, 03:31 AM The reason I originally posted this, is in the Grand History of the Realms the planet is referred to as Abeir-Toril until Tearfall, and it changes mid paragraph (the one mentioning the event) referring to it as Toril at the end of the paragraph. I haven't been meticulous in my reading of the book yet, but I have found no later references to it as Abeir-Toril.
The WarOverlord
09-29-07, 03:53 AM I don't remember where it was, but at one point Ed (at least I think it was Ed) mentioned the fact that Abeir-Toril pretty much moved to just Toril, and we would find out why (or at least more about it). So I finally got my copy of GHotR yesterday, and the name change occurs during Tearfall. All it mentions in the book was the creation of the Sea of Fallen Stars, and the introduction of Dragons to the world. I was wondering if someone could fill me in on why Tearfall would lead to moving from Abeir-Toril to simply Toril. Thank you.

Well the 2nd eddition Forgotten Realms Atlas says that the full name (Abeir-Toril) translates into "Craddle of Life" but those that even know it's a Planet just calls it Toril in casual conversation while it is more commonly called "The Realms" to most Sage types
Old Sage
09-29-07, 04:52 AM To further muddy the waters of perception, here's a few additional thoughts from Ed, THO, and Jeff Grubb, on the origins of the name... "Abeir-Toril" -

"Jeff contributed the name of the planet (Toril, to which he added the prefix Abeir to shift the world entry to the front of the alphabetical listings in the Old Grey Box) from his campaign. I had no world name because the folks in Faerun knew they lived on something that curved, but considered it all one land. Jeff also added a god (Waukeen), and reshaped everything into official rules format. (The gods from Jeff's own campaign had already been used in the Dragonlance setting, I believe.) Jeff and I became very close friends, and he managed the hard task of turning all the Realmslore I sent in to TSR every week (until they yelled at me to stop) into a coherent setting with both wit and humor. I can't thank him enough."

...

And this from THO -

"Correct. Jeff did create and name Waukeen, and did name "the planet" Abeir-Toril.
The name "Faerûn" (which means "home" in a long-ago, forgotten language) refers to the main continent of the published Realms. Ed's thinking was that "everyone" knew about the land they lived in, and its boundary seas, but not every culture "of today," Realmstime, knew it was on a spherical planet. There are various names among the Netherese, modern Halruaans, elves, etc, for the planet, but there was no one commonly-accepted one.
TSR needed an "official" label. Jeff was the handler, traffic cop, and "TSR end" of the Realms, and provided one. As with everything, he checked with Ed, and Ed said: fine. Sure. Go ahead.
love,
THO"

...

This from Jeff -

"I remember mentioning elsewhere that the Abeir-Toril title means "cradle of life" in an archaic tongue. While I never stated which was which, I always assumed that "toril" was the word for life and "abeir" was the word for originator, cradle, or home.""
Old Sage
09-29-07, 04:53 AM Well the 2nd eddition Forgotten Realms Atlas says that the full name (Abeir-Toril) translates into "Craddle of Life" but those that even know it's a Planet just calls it Toril in casual conversation while it is more commonly called "The Realms" to most Sage typesWhen folk speak of 'the land generally' -- the human and political more than the natural world -- they think of 'the Realms'. This isn't a contraction of 'Forgotten Realms' -- rather, 'Forgotten Realms' is 'the Realms' from the point of view of modern-day Earth. The slightly less common term 'Faerûn', which means 'home' (in use if not in etymology), is used interchangeably with 'the Realms'. 'Abeir-Toril' or 'Toril' is rarely used except by scholars and sages, and that global conception of the world is equally uncommon. The 1e Cyclopedia of the Realms states that the name Abeir-toril is archaic, meaning "Cradle of Life", and is rarely used in everyday life.

Here's more from THO -

"The name "Faerûn" (which means "home" in a long-ago, forgotten language) refers to the main continent of the published Realms. Ed's thinking was that "everyone" knew about the land they lived in, and its boundary seas, but not every culture "of today," Realmstime, knew it was on a spherical planet. There are various names among the Netherese, modern Halruaans, elves, etc, for the planet, but there was no one commonly-accepted one.
TSR needed an "official" label. Jeff was the handler, traffic cop, and "TSR end" of the Realms, and provided one. As with everything, he checked with Ed, and Ed said: fine. Sure. Go ahead.
love,
THO"
MarkusTay63
09-29-07, 12:38 PM So Abeir means 'Cradle'?

HMMMM...Hmmmm...hmmmm....

So, the "merger of two worlds" will then be an invasion by the Cradlonians? :confused:

;) :P
18DELTA
09-29-07, 06:25 PM So Abeir means 'Cradle'?

HMMMM...Hmmmm...hmmmm....

So, the "merger of two worlds" will then be an invasion by the Cradlonians? :confused:

;) :P
:rofl: Dude, you really crack me up! I think that Kara-Tur is in the next FRCG (Campain Guide):P
GothicDan
09-29-07, 08:11 PM Cradlonians = Babies!
The WarOverlord
09-30-07, 07:13 AM When folk speak of 'the land generally' -- the human and political more than the natural world -- they think of 'the Realms'. This isn't a contraction of 'Forgotten Realms' -- rather, 'Forgotten Realms' is 'the Realms' from the point of view of modern-day Earth. The slightly less common term 'Faerûn', which means 'home' (in use if not in etymology), is used interchangeably with 'the Realms'. 'Abeir-Toril' or 'Toril' is rarely used except by scholars and sages, and that global conception of the world is equally uncommon. The 1e Cyclopedia of the Realms states that the name Abeir-toril is archaic, meaning "Cradle of Life", and is rarely used in everyday life.

Here's more from THO -

"The name "Faerûn" (which means "home" in a long-ago, forgotten language) refers to the main continent of the published Realms. Ed's thinking was that "everyone" knew about the land they lived in, and its boundary seas, but not every culture "of today," Realmstime, knew it was on a spherical planet. There are various names among the Netherese, modern Halruaans, elves, etc, for the planet, but there was no one commonly-accepted one.
TSR needed an "official" label. Jeff was the handler, traffic cop, and "TSR end" of the Realms, and provided one. As with everything, he checked with Ed, and Ed said: fine. Sure. Go ahead.
love,
THO"

Yeah, Ironically sometimes even Players are as in the dark about exactly where they are as their PCs are....lol

I have a Few PCs that ran around the area known to them as the "Savage Coast" and acquired "red Steel" weapons that have weird properties that effect the PCs stats but gives them attack bonuses and the like but it was only like Last month where I realized I was playing in a Campaign World up to that point I was sure I never played in before....lol
MarkusTay63
09-30-07, 11:25 AM I thought Savage Coast/Red Steel was very interesting and unique... perhaps a bit too unique for it's own good.

I tried running it, but no one was interested in D&D meets Gamma World.

If they just left out the wierd mutations, I think it would have been a winner. It still makes for an excellent Swashbuckling Campaign area (I turned it sideways and used it for the coast of Anchorome).
Straploknight
09-30-07, 07:22 PM Cradlonians = Babies!

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/EPIC_Gallery/Gallery5a/44165_C5_atropal.jpg

yeah, maybe this kinda baby!
Dark Wizard
09-30-07, 07:36 PM Gah! Aborted god-fetuses! :yuck: :OMG! :coolcthul
MarkusTay63
09-30-07, 09:03 PM Gross........ :yuck:

So thats the imbelicle cord?

Okay, good.... for second I thought it was his... never mind. :rolleyes:

<seriously... just look at the end> ;)
Jürgen Hubert
10-01-07, 11:13 AM So Abeir means 'Cradle'?

How did that go again?

"A planet is the cradle of mind, but one cannot live in a cradle forever." (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Konstantin_Eduardovich_Tsiolkovsky)

:D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Reneshat 09-29-07, 12:41 AM	I don't remember where it was, but at one point Ed (at least I think it was Ed) mentioned the fact that Abeir-Toril pretty much moved to just Toril, and we would find out why (or at least more about it). So I finally got my copy of GHotR yesterday, and the name change occurs during Tearfall. All it mentions in the book was the creation of the Sea of Fallen Stars, and the introduction of Dragons to the world. I was wondering if someone could fill me in on why Tearfall would lead to moving from Abeir-Toril to simply Toril. Thank you.
GothicDan 09-29-07, 12:44 AM	Selune's Tears... The Moon?
Old Sage 09-29-07, 01:36 AM	Ed's already confirmed that the mysterious nature of "Abeir-Toril" has virtually nothing to do with the concept of a moon as such. What little we do know, was revealed through this somewhat cryptic response from the Lady Hooded One:- "No, Toril is not (and never was) a moon. But (though NDAs prevent me from saying one word more on this), I remind scribes that the name is Abeir-Toril, and for the last few decades, all we've seen is Toril. Hint. Hint. love, THO"
MarkusTay63 09-29-07, 02:26 AM	Hmmmm... That coupled with the other cryptic hint that the Spellplague and coming disaster had it's 'roots' in the ToT would leave one to believe that the split may have occurred then. Hmmmmmmm... :thinks: Maybe we will see a ressurection of Mystra 1.0? :dancin: You know... that might actually be a pretty decent way of changing things.
Reneshat 09-29-07, 03:31 AM	The reason I originally posted this, is in the Grand History of the Realms the planet is referred to as Abeir-Toril until Tearfall, and it changes mid paragraph (the one mentioning the event) referring to it as Toril at the end of the paragraph. I haven't been meticulous in my reading of the book yet, but I have found no later references to it as Abeir-Toril.
The WarOverlord 09-29-07, 03:53 AM	I don't remember where it was, but at one point Ed (at least I think it was Ed) mentioned the fact that Abeir-Toril pretty much moved to just Toril, and we would find out why (or at least more about it). So I finally got my copy of GHotR yesterday, and the name change occurs during Tearfall. All it mentions in the book was the creation of the Sea of Fallen Stars, and the introduction of Dragons to the world. I was wondering if someone could fill me in on why Tearfall would lead to moving from Abeir-Toril to simply Toril. Thank you. Well the 2nd eddition Forgotten Realms Atlas says that the full name (Abeir-Toril) translates into "Craddle of Life" but those that even know it's a Planet just calls it Toril in casual conversation while it is more commonly called "The Realms" to most Sage types
Old Sage 09-29-07, 04:52 AM	To further muddy the waters of perception, here's a few additional thoughts from Ed, THO, and Jeff Grubb, on the origins of the name... "Abeir-Toril" - "Jeff contributed the name of the planet (Toril, to which he added the prefix Abeir to shift the world entry to the front of the alphabetical listings in the Old Grey Box) from his campaign. I had no world name because the folks in Faerun knew they lived on something that curved, but considered it all one land. Jeff also added a god (Waukeen), and reshaped everything into official rules format. (The gods from Jeff's own campaign had already been used in the Dragonlance setting, I believe.) Jeff and I became very close friends, and he managed the hard task of turning all the Realmslore I sent in to TSR every week (until they yelled at me to stop) into a coherent setting with both wit and humor. I can't thank him enough." ... And this from THO - "Correct. Jeff did create and name Waukeen, and did name "the planet" Abeir-Toril. The name "Faerûn" (which means "home" in a long-ago, forgotten language) refers to the main continent of the published Realms. Ed's thinking was that "everyone" knew about the land they lived in, and its boundary seas, but not every culture "of today," Realmstime, knew it was on a spherical planet. There are various names among the Netherese, modern Halruaans, elves, etc, for the planet, but there was no one commonly-accepted one. TSR needed an "official" label. Jeff was the handler, traffic cop, and "TSR end" of the Realms, and provided one. As with everything, he checked with Ed, and Ed said: fine. Sure. Go ahead. love, THO" ... This from Jeff - "I remember mentioning elsewhere that the Abeir-Toril title means "cradle of life" in an archaic tongue. While I never stated which was which, I always assumed that "toril" was the word for life and "abeir" was the word for originator, cradle, or home.""
Old Sage 09-29-07, 04:53 AM	Well the 2nd eddition Forgotten Realms Atlas says that the full name (Abeir-Toril) translates into "Craddle of Life" but those that even know it's a Planet just calls it Toril in casual conversation while it is more commonly called "The Realms" to most Sage typesWhen folk speak of 'the land generally' -- the human and political more than the natural world -- they think of 'the Realms'. This isn't a contraction of 'Forgotten Realms' -- rather, 'Forgotten Realms' is 'the Realms' from the point of view of modern-day Earth. The slightly less common term 'Faerûn', which means 'home' (in use if not in etymology), is used interchangeably with 'the Realms'. 'Abeir-Toril' or 'Toril' is rarely used except by scholars and sages, and that global conception of the world is equally uncommon. The 1e Cyclopedia of the Realms states that the name Abeir-toril is archaic, meaning "Cradle of Life", and is rarely used in everyday life. Here's more from THO - "The name "Faerûn" (which means "home" in a long-ago, forgotten language) refers to the main continent of the published Realms. Ed's thinking was that "everyone" knew about the land they lived in, and its boundary seas, but not every culture "of today," Realmstime, knew it was on a spherical planet. There are various names among the Netherese, modern Halruaans, elves, etc, for the planet, but there was no one commonly-accepted one. TSR needed an "official" label. Jeff was the handler, traffic cop, and "TSR end" of the Realms, and provided one. As with everything, he checked with Ed, and Ed said: fine. Sure. Go ahead. love, THO"
MarkusTay63 09-29-07, 12:38 PM	So Abeir means 'Cradle'? HMMMM...Hmmmm...hmmmm.... So, the "merger of two worlds" will then be an invasion by the Cradlonians? :confused: ;) :P
18DELTA 09-29-07, 06:25 PM	So Abeir means 'Cradle'? HMMMM...Hmmmm...hmmmm.... So, the "merger of two worlds" will then be an invasion by the Cradlonians? :confused: ;) :P :rofl: Dude, you really crack me up! I think that Kara-Tur is in the next FRCG (Campain Guide):P
GothicDan 09-29-07, 08:11 PM	Cradlonians = Babies!
The WarOverlord 09-30-07, 07:13 AM	When folk speak of 'the land generally' -- the human and political more than the natural world -- they think of 'the Realms'. This isn't a contraction of 'Forgotten Realms' -- rather, 'Forgotten Realms' is 'the Realms' from the point of view of modern-day Earth. The slightly less common term 'Faerûn', which means 'home' (in use if not in etymology), is used interchangeably with 'the Realms'. 'Abeir-Toril' or 'Toril' is rarely used except by scholars and sages, and that global conception of the world is equally uncommon. The 1e Cyclopedia of the Realms states that the name Abeir-toril is archaic, meaning "Cradle of Life", and is rarely used in everyday life. Here's more from THO - "The name "Faerûn" (which means "home" in a long-ago, forgotten language) refers to the main continent of the published Realms. Ed's thinking was that "everyone" knew about the land they lived in, and its boundary seas, but not every culture "of today," Realmstime, knew it was on a spherical planet. There are various names among the Netherese, modern Halruaans, elves, etc, for the planet, but there was no one commonly-accepted one. TSR needed an "official" label. Jeff was the handler, traffic cop, and "TSR end" of the Realms, and provided one. As with everything, he checked with Ed, and Ed said: fine. Sure. Go ahead. love, THO" Yeah, Ironically sometimes even Players are as in the dark about exactly where they are as their PCs are....lol I have a Few PCs that ran around the area known to them as the "Savage Coast" and acquired "red Steel" weapons that have weird properties that effect the PCs stats but gives them attack bonuses and the like but it was only like Last month where I realized I was playing in a Campaign World up to that point I was sure I never played in before....lol
MarkusTay63 09-30-07, 11:25 AM	I thought Savage Coast/Red Steel was very interesting and unique... perhaps a bit too unique for it's own good. I tried running it, but no one was interested in D&D meets Gamma World. If they just left out the wierd mutations, I think it would have been a winner. It still makes for an excellent Swashbuckling Campaign area (I turned it sideways and used it for the coast of Anchorome).
Straploknight 09-30-07, 07:22 PM	Cradlonians = Babies! http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/EPIC_Gallery/Gallery5a/44165_C5_atropal.jpg yeah, maybe this kinda baby!
Dark Wizard 09-30-07, 07:36 PM	Gah! Aborted god-fetuses! :yuck: :OMG! :coolcthul
MarkusTay63 09-30-07, 09:03 PM	Gross........ :yuck: So thats the imbelicle cord? Okay, good.... for second I thought it was his... never mind. :rolleyes: <seriously... just look at the end> ;)
Jürgen Hubert 10-01-07, 11:13 AM	So Abeir means 'Cradle'? How did that go again? "A planet is the cradle of mind, but one cannot live in a cradle forever." (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Konstantin_Eduardovich_Tsiolkovsky) :D