Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Charles Phipps 09-26-04, 05:19 PM	*murmurs* I'm going to recieve so much flak for this it's not imaginable... Okay. my players are finishing up the Time of Troubles and they want another epic level campaign for their characters to handle. One that imperils all of Faerun. Given their unfamiliarity with Dragonlance, it occurred to me that there was plenty of information that could be adapted from my module collection (practically everything in the original series) Of course, this is a DAUNTING task and the series is written for DL and DL alone. You might as well adapt Dark Sun modules to it (which I have indeed done). I'm willing to throw out alot but I think it's definitely workable, possibly with working with the Tugian Horde. There's some archetypical parallels as well.... Fizban=Elminster Huma=Torm (his backstory can be lifted wholesale) Takhasis=Shar/Tiamat Qualinesti=Everveska Silvastani=Evermeet (or perhaps Ergoth with the "Great Retreat" pushing a bunch of elves unhappily together) Thorbardin=Great Rift Palanthas= Waterdeep (geography of specific landmarks can be somewhat altered) Paladine=Tyr/Bahamut Miskahal= Selune It doesn't have to of course be directly Dragonlance's modules or the War of the Lance but something similiar still might make a formidable campaign I think. Basically, thoughts and suggestions for doing all of this will be most appreciated and I hope personally that I won't recieve TOO much ridicule or "You should just play Dragonlance!" or "It can't be done!" or the possible "You're butchering classic modules!' type responses I've already pondered before this
Ssussunriyh 09-26-04, 06:37 PM	The current year in Faerun is the "Year of Rogue Dragons," isn't it? It's doable, but you've got your work cut out for you. If you can swing it, my hat's off to you. :tiphat: Another similarity: tinker gnomes and Mount Nevermind = gnome priests of Gond and the island of Lantan. The draconians could be replaced (or allied) with the yuan-ti. Just dump the gully dwarves, and please don't play halflings as kender! And remember that while a Red Wizard in DL is neutral, the same is not true in FR. Oh, and about those weird steel coins... Eh, you get the idea. Details, details...
Charles Phipps 09-26-04, 07:11 PM	I'm not going to confuse general concepts like Red Wizards and Red Wizards ;-) I do tend to play halflings as perpetually immature little kids though. If you want Bilbo Baggins, go play a gnome. My rough draft outline is shaping up to be that Tiamat (with the support of many of the dark gods in a uneasy alliance post Time of Troubles) starts assembling her armies with the aid of Sammaster whom she rescues from the Plane of Fugue (As a false he's punished not destroyed). The Cult of the Dragon then is allied with the Tugian Horde whom Sammaster does a great job of converting and Chestnea (allied to Tiamat). The Draconians go in almost completely the same and dragons start flocking to the banner of their goddess. The Battle of the High Clerist Tower will take place not there but instead an important protection point for Cormyr in the Thunder Mountain's Pass, since that's the easiest to defend and doesn't make the whole thing ridiculous. The DragonLances and Dragon Orbs plot remains essentially unchanged and the evacuation of Everveska that naturally follows the masisve armies of humans coming nearby them. Tiamat also intends to enter the world as the "Gate" spell planned is actually a massive level epic spell that's intended to create an avatar of hers that she can use to lead her armies personally to victory as Bhaal did in the Moonshaes. Elements I'm still debating though are * Whether or not to have Shar merge with Tiamat * To have the corruption of Silvastani happen in Evermeet or Everveska (with Lorac replaced by Zaor or some nameless stupid elf king of Rivendale errr Everveska) * To have an alliance of dark gods behind Tiamat, explaining why she's not smote even if the alliance is probably fraying at the start * The Shades involved somehow, Malaguaym, or Thayans for corrupting the eggs to replace the black robes * Explain what the Chosen are up to during all this * What to make the Temple of Ishtar and where to put it for the big finale * whether to replace the Knights of Somalnia with the Purple Dragons or an order of paladins * Who created the Dragonorbs and Dragonlances in the first place Elements I'll be adapting wholesale will be * Verminaard and Pax Tharkas will be replaced with Fzoul Chembryll and Zhentil Keep * Kitharia (sp?) will be replaced with Lady Scyllua Darkhope * Lord Soth will be replaced by the Pereghost * Fizban will be replaced by Elminster * The Disks of Mishkale (which play a far less prominent role) will be replaced by the Disks of Selune (hers is a practically dead religion anyway) * Lord Arikas will be replaced with Sammaster (different feels but whatever works) * Black Robes will be replaced with Red Wizards of Thay or Shar Shadow Weave Users * Solace will be replaced with Shadowdale * The North ice adventures will of course take place in the Silver Marches * Southern Ergoth will be replaced by Evermeet and they'll journey off it to the Moonshaes where they'll find Torm's tomb * The Knights of Solmania will be replaced decidedly by the Purple Dragons
Crust 09-26-04, 08:57 PM	If your players don't know anything about Dragonlance, you could certainly pick a corner of Faerun and run the entire Classics campaign if you wanted. You could still use names like Fizban (or just use Elminster, or some aspect of Azuth), and you could probably use names like Verminaard and Ariakas. Being that The Rage just came out, and that it is the Year of Rogue Dragons, there could definitely be a kingdom somewhere in Faerun where Dragon Highlords rule, and Takhisis is supreme. The whole disappearance of the Gods thing in DL could be part of the Time of Troubles. I think you could translate DL to FR very easily. It's funny you mention this, because I was able to run the Classics campaign 7 years ago, and we made it as far as Icewall/Silvanesti with the group split in half. I was toying with the idea of running this campaign again, either set in the DL world or translated to FR.
Charles Phipps 09-26-04, 09:20 PM	Making the events "too big" to an extent. Largely the temptation is one where you'd want such an epic series of modules to cover all of Faerun but in truth, its probably a better idea to have the events confined to largely the North or similiar regions. I've run the entire modules before with a different set of players before and know them very well. The best thing really is to forget Tanis, Raistlin, and company along with how things SHOULD turn out in my opinion because the majority of parties will have one or more big, important, etc players fall out before the end of things. That's assuming your players are willing to even play folk like Half-Elven and company instead of their own characters, which they have every right to do so in my opinion. It's also probably a good thing to forget direction and instead do one's best to alter things a bit with player's paths because things ARE in different places after all.
Primal 09-27-04, 02:58 AM	You could just transfer your characters in the world of DL (through a portal or divine intervention or something like that) and get them back in a similar manner once the plot is finished. Minimum effort and not many loose ends to haunt you in FR afterwards. I have tried it in 2e with FR characters and went pretty well.
Crust 09-27-04, 09:20 AM	Verminaard replaced by Fzoul? That's a pretty big leap, though it makes sense, I suppose. Going from a cleric 8 to the Chosen of Bane might be much. I might suggest that the entirety of the Classics campaign be set in some country where many of the main FR heroes hardly venture. However, I do very much approve and agree with you conversions, Charles. The strife in Silvanesti might be hard to work out. Where would Thorbardin be? Mithril Hall? Would Icewall be Icewind Dale? Where is Neraka? Zhentil Keep? Some city in Thay? I love this idea. I could very well be using some of your ideas in my campaign, Charles, should I ever decide to run Classics again.
Charles Phipps 09-27-04, 11:41 AM	Well, I wouldn't want to visit a campaign world and have the characters develop emotional attachments just to then remove then back to FR and I'm hardly done with Toril :-) Verminaard replaced by Fzoul? That's a pretty big leap, though it makes sense, I suppose. Going from a cleric 8 to the Chosen of Bane might be much. It'd be before he becomes Chosen of Bane I believe. He's just probably become a high priest of Xvim (a god hoping to ride Tiamat's coat tails until he can sieze Cyric's porfolio). The year of Rogue Dragons is one I'm unlikely to use generally since my timeline isn't caught up quite yet. Even if he was, I'm going to probably move him from disposable villain to campaign mover and shaker as well. I am going to have the falling out between Manshoon and Bane accelerated though by the fact Manshoon bitterly opposed Fzoul's alliance with the Dragon Armies. Manshoon, correctly, sees that the Zhents are very small fish in the Cult of the Dragon's nightmarish new order. I might suggest that the entirety of the Classics campaign be set in some country where many of the main FR heroes hardly venture. Chestnea is the only place I can think of but FR is so well done that unless one moved to perhaps where Russia would be on Toril and simply place Ansalom there (which would actually fit fairly well if Taladas was the Americas) then you might as well work within it. I'm only working with the general concept and adventures anyway, However, I do very much approve and agree with you conversions, Charles. Thank you. The strife in Silvanesti might be hard to work out. My idea is to set it on Evermeet's capital city and have the assassination of King Zaor done by Kymil Nemsin not through an assassin with a knife but instead with the Dragon orb that he presents him to use (provided by Cyan Bloodbane of Course)...thus neatly tying things together. Many of Evermeet's elves evacuate thus to an area of the Moonshaes I established a "sidhe kingdom" avoided by folk as well. Its fits well that Torm's tomb is located there since it has an Avalon type feel to some extent. Where would Thorbardin be? Mithril Hall? Bruenor, while the quientessential Dwarf, is a bit too small in domicile for Thorbardin. I'll probably leave the kingdom out of things for the majority of it or simply use the Great Rift and the presenting of the hammer of Moradin to be the tool to make the Dragonlances (weapons created by Tyr, Moradin, and Corellon in the epic dragon wars to signify the three races unity against evil) Would Icewall be Icewind Dale? What I'm thinking, the Dragon Armies have an outpost there for when they take Cormyr they'll flank with the orcs there. King Obould (moved up a few years), and Gertti will be Dragon Army holdovers with the Drow White Dragon High Lord there. Where is Neraka? Zhentil Keep? Some city in Thay? Since its Tiamat, Unther is the perfect place to put it. It's barren, out of the way, and no one suspects it. With portals, we can circumvent geographic problems a great deal that would otherwise imperil an army. I assume Nekara is some gigantic Temple to Tiamat and the poor Untherites are willing collaborators with Sammaster, the self styled "Emperor of Faerun" I love this idea. I could very well be using some of your ideas in my campaign, Charles, should I ever decide to run Classics again. Thanks.
Crust 09-27-04, 03:26 PM	Good GAWD!! Those plans are just amazing, Charles. I'm foaming at the mouth. What an awesome campaign idea! I undestand now about Fzoul. Would Manshoon possibly take the place of Raistlin? I mean, I know Raistlin might technically be a PC choice in the original modules, but his actions certainly steer things. Just wondering. Soth as the Pereghost is also a great idea. Soth is one of the best fantasy villains to come from TSR/Wizards. Using the Great Rift is a great choice. I mean, we've seen Mithril Hall already. ;) I like Moradin, Corellon, and Tyr as the representative gods, so to speak. Unther is an awesome choice. I would agree that it's not expected. Working Evermeet and the slaying of Zaor into the Silvanesti debacle is a slick move. Using a dragonorb is just perfect. Using Obould and Gerti as tools of the Dragon Highlord drow is another slick touch! That's gotta be so rewarding for your gamers. I love the Classics modules. They're gems. Awesome locations, great progression, epic in scope, the group can split up, you're riding dragons... I long to run it again, and actually finish it! Great ideas, Charles.
Charles Phipps 09-27-04, 04:35 PM	Good GAWD!! Thank you. *bows* Would Manshoon possibly take the place of Raistlin? I mean, I know Raistlin might technically be a PC choice in the original modules, but his actions certainly steer things. Just wondering. Manshoon will largely be playing the part of untrustworthy ally to the PCs. There to drop little hints of information and ultimately turn on the Dragon Armies. It's a role that wasn't included in the original but it makes their ultimate victory all the sweeter. Since my players don't read these boards, I might as well share that Sturm Brightblade will be showing up as an NPC squire/henchemn to the PCs and barring accidents will be there to come into his own at the High Clerist's tower. THEN I shall introduce Raistlin Majere as a replacement, sick and seemingly partially possessed (an ancient Imaski archwizard) as the PCs struggle to help him against his evil as he doesn't want to be saved. At Unther, I imagine he'll be 'killed' and make a pact with Shar. The bittersweet ending after the defeat of Tiamat will have Raistlin in black robes come to be the new Chosen of Shar as he's absorbed the evil essence of his 'companion'. The Lady of Dark Mysteries has also absconded with Sammaster's spellbooks and pscylantry (probably for taunting and destruction but the PCs will never know...) Just to add to the tragedy and also hopefully make a powerful new enemy for the chosen. I love the Classics modules. They're gems. Awesome locations, great progression, epic in scope, the group can split up, you're riding dragons... I long to run it again, and actually finish it! Great ideas, Charles. Glad you like it. I'm probably going to use Amnestria the mother of Arilyn Moonblade (time is screwy in my realms) as the Laurana figure. I'd use Amaurail but she's a tad too epic. I can also do away with her as I see fit...muhahahaha
john_carlos 09-28-04, 06:56 AM	Great idea, too bad I don't have any players bright enough to make it through something like this w/out massive DM help (you can only fudge so many die rolls). One thought is that you could perhaps have Shar manipulate Tiamat into a position to harm Mystra and by extension, Selune (mishkal) by allowing Tiamat's troops unfettered use of the shadow weave for, which may or may not weaken the weave (up to you). Also, shade clerics of Shar in Shade, which could substitute for Neraka, could be making the draconians at Shar's direction (of course making it seem like its Tiamat's idea). Tiamat gets to kick a$$ and Shar gets to come along and console all those who experienced loss, a win-win situation for all (except the good guys). Yea, cry havoc and let slip the wyrms of war.
Charles Phipps 09-28-04, 11:39 AM	The wizards of Shade are good choices for the bad guys but I'm thinking of sticking with the "Shadow Masters" (I can't remember how to spell their name). The shapeshifting wizards are epic and powerful enough, plus aligned with Shar but don't have the Earth shaking power of the Shade Archwizards My original idea was that Shade did fit very much my idea of what Nekara was supposed to look/feel like though. (After all, what better place to conduct a campaign from than a floating city) It's just a matter of preference though. It'll be interesting, I think, what the consequences for all this might be.
Cole Deschain 09-28-04, 05:27 PM	One little thing- a major theme in the early Dragonlance modules was the "rediscovery" of clerical magic. Are you going to try to fit this in somehow, or what?
Charles Phipps 09-29-04, 11:32 AM	Forgotten Realms is too tied to the gods to have clerical magic having dissapeared for any established length of time, however the idea of rediscovering a lost god and making converts is a very good one in my opinion. Thus I'm going to use my newly minted Chosen of Selune character in the party to go forth and try to rediscover the Disks of Selune and restart her religion, which has in our campaign...seemed to have narrowly vanished. By the end of the campaign, I imagine Selune will once again occupy a position as a greater goddess.
john_carlos 09-29-04, 11:54 AM	Well that would certainly **** off Shar.
Charles Phipps 09-29-04, 12:06 PM	Tiamat may lose her chance to dominate all of the Realms under her evil reign but my opinion is that her name will be so loudly proclaimed and so many come to view her as a powerful evil goddess that she'll go up a rank and become an Intermediate goddess of evil. I am still considering personally whether Manshoon should be Shar's ally in this as well or whether he should be operating for Mystra. He could go either way honestly as Shar plays things by ear. He's a fascinating villain if given respect I think.
Lord Mortanius 10-01-04, 02:29 AM	Tiamat may lose her chance to dominate all of the Realms under her evil reign but my opinion is that her name will be so loudly proclaimed and so many come to view her as a powerful evil goddess that she'll go up a rank and become an Intermediate goddess of evil. I am still considering personally whether Manshoon should be Shar's ally in this as well or whether he should be operating for Mystra. He could go either way honestly as Shar plays things by ear. He's a fascinating villain if given respect I think. I don't see Manshoon willing to ally himself with Mystra. Azuth or Velsharoon maybe, but not Mystra. What of Semmemon ? He seems ideal for Raistlin.
Charles Phipps 10-01-04, 12:00 PM	He's fairly fanatically loyal to the ideal of magic. He loves magic, he nuzzles his spellbooks at night, etc etc (exaggeration) The whole idea of what the priests preach about magic is fairly immaterial to Manshoon and he worships Mystra in his own way. What after all could they know to a being who is the most powerful archwizard in the world and of course closer to her ideal? The idea of worshipping a "lesser being" like Azuth let alone Velsharoon is repulsive to Manshoon. It'll be an interesting case for Mystra to judge when he dies (or has been when any of his clones die). Manshoon is genuinely faithful to her but decidedly to the ideal of magic rather than her personally. Semmenon in my games actually almost fits better the Lord Toede role (not quite as sharp as everyone else but actually formidable in his own way). He's always following in Manshoon's footsteps and trying to survive the latest political crisis. I use him as a contrast to Manshoon and Fzoul who are always in control of their environments. You are right, he might make a good Raistlin if I give him some credit.