Alignment in FR [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alignment in FR [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dalimar
07-05-04, 08:33 AM Do your Pc's tend to veer toward the dark side in your games or do they mostly champion the forces of good?
Cunning Linguist
07-05-04, 08:56 AM They mostly swing toward the dark side.
MakesMeSick
07-05-04, 11:14 AM They try not to steer off the path of righteousness and remain on the "good" side, although they usually don't associate with the known "good" organizations across Faerūn (such as the Harpers, etc.), and prefer to work "solo".
Monsoon28
07-05-04, 02:07 PM They generally walk the fine line between the two, there is more gray in the world than black & white.
Another Gnome
07-05-04, 02:50 PM I like my games rough and dirty; the characters are most often heroes without being good, or good without being heroes. And I think FR is an ideal setting for that kind of play. In a world where villains are allowed to have half a brain and even a heart in some cases, heroes too can be less than perfect without feeling hopeless.

By "perfect" and "hopeless" I don't so much mean ability, but mentality. Anyone less than perfect in a world of absolute darkness and vileness would feel pretty hopeless, but in the Realms there's no need for that when few villains are without any redeeming qualities, no matter how evil and cruel and malicious they might be in general.
Ssussunriyh
07-05-04, 03:17 PM I subscribe to the Anti-Hero philosophy, myself. One who has good aims, but questionable methods.
paradoxmage
07-05-04, 05:12 PM neutral mostly while walking that fine line of evil thoughts, and they tend to have spots of rightousness here and there.
Land Outcast
07-05-04, 05:56 PM Who pays better? and a tint of good.
Ferol, Debtor of Torm
07-05-04, 07:32 PM Sigh, you guys are depressing me....

Am I the only person who still likes to play a good old fasioned GOOD guy?

You know, the kind who actually does always try to do the right thing, and doesn't always believe that the ends justifies the means?

I for one am tired of playing in campaigns filled to the brim with brooding anti-heroes. Some argue that actual GOOD guys are unrealistic, but I refuse to believe that. Granted all characters have to have some sort of flaws but do they all have to...

"neutral mostly while walking that fine line of evil thoughts"

or

"I like my games rough and dirty; the characters are most often heroes without being good, or good without being heroes"

or

"They mostly swing toward the dark side"

Gah, I suppose you guys just remind me too much of all the ravenloft players I used to play with.
warlockco
07-05-04, 11:05 PM I tend to prefer to be CN or CG myself, with the occasional LN.

One my players is almost always a good cleric or a paladin.

2 of them tend to be sneaky types (Ranger/Rogues) of LN and NG alignments respectively.

I tell players upfront that if they want to be evil, be ready to answer to other members of the party. Especially with a Paladin usually in the group.

Currently getting geared up to run an underdark game based out of Menzoberranzan, and it looks like its going to be a party of Priestesses of Lolth, at least at first :smirk: they will soon learn to diversify.
Gray Richardson
07-05-04, 11:08 PM In my campaign all the players play heroes and aspire to the traditional fantasy heroic ideals.

One time the party came across a glabrezu demon strapped to a table missing one of it's arms that had been amputated for grafting purposes by the BBEG necromancer. The party disturbed his magical slumber and upon waking the demon broke free from the straps and reared up to his full height, screaming. The party did the usual number of blasting it with everything they had.

In a moment's inspiration, just to be different, on the demon's initiative I had it plop down, drop it's head into its remaining hands and start weeping in great demony sobs. The players were taken aback, not knowing how to react.

After engaging it in conversation it related a sad tale of woe about how it was having a really bad day and didn't understand why everyone was trying to kill him. He had just been picking blood daisies in the abyss, minding its own business, when some evil guy summoned him, strapped him down and cut off his arm. Shortly after awaking from the shock he was surrounded by a scarry group of humans that were trying to blow him to smithereens.

The party suddenly was falling all over themselves to apologize and try to heal the monster. One player even used up the one wish that a Glabrezu can grant to a mortal humanoid to unselfishly restore the demon's arm and send him back to the abyss!

After the encounter was over the party was totally confused as to whether the demon was just having them on or really an innocent victim that they had helped.

At the very least though they were proud that they had upheld their heroic ideals and it made for a lot more interesting evening's role playing experience than the fighting and slaying they usually do.
Ferol, Debtor of Torm
07-05-04, 11:18 PM In my campaign all the players play heroes and aspire to the traditional fantasy heroic ideals.

Woot! That story brought a tear to my eye. After reading the book of exalted deeds I look on being good under a different light. I don't go around willy-nilly smiting everything in sight... convert those demon and devils to the side of good!

Edit: Grr I somehow screwed up the quote...
Plunderer_of_the_planes
07-06-04, 12:37 AM This is a tough one. I guess we play more off the good/evil axsis rather than the law/chaos one. As well we generally feel alignment as presented is too restraining. ( a belief most of my group has held since we baegan playing years ago) so we really don't get too hung up about it.

I have thought of switching to the d20 modern allegence system but I don't know if that will work as well.

All in all My players tend to act and think like Adventurers who depend upon the next big find for survival so I would say we're more NG or N than anything....
Ssussunriyh
07-06-04, 01:18 AM My characters aren't brooding and haunted, like Frank Castle aka the Punisher... They just don't waste time and effort trying to sway some BBEG who they believe is corrupted beyond all hope of redemption. Just kill them ASAP, just as you would a rabid dog or a poisonous snake, for the simple reason that they're too dangerous to leave alive.

When the BBEG is raving about his plans for world domination, don't reason with him to be a good little psycho and please stop slaughtering and enslaving people. Just cut him off in mid-sentence with a good critical hit. Then go home and sleep soundly.
Valgard
07-06-04, 05:47 AM Me and my roleplaying partners really have a serious problem concearning alignments. Only me, and another guy of my group really always try to take good alignment. Another guy is between the neutral and good patterns. All other ones are neutral tending to evil.

On my first days of playing (about two or three years ago) I tried to play many times a paladin and then adverting to people please not to take evil alignment, or at least, to seem not being evil.

The other DM that rules D&D in my group (I am the other DM who usually runs D&D) has an icy perception of alignment and running a good guy usually gives disadvantage to this character. So paladin, one of my favourite classes is in really disadvantage :(
Another Gnome
07-06-04, 06:43 AM Gah, I suppose you guys just remind me too much of all the ravenloft players I used to play with.

Damn. And I even clarified my intial statement with the intent of not getting mixed up with Ravenloft mentality... :(

Well, I'll clarify a bit more, then. First, there's an absolute ban on evil PCs in my table. I've allowed an evil PC one time, and it took ten minutes before he was planning on double-crossing his party members. It took me ten minutes to decide that the evil PC gets squashed by the giant DM anvil of doom! and that the player will roll a new character, and that the subject is not even mentioned ever again.

Second, I don't at all mind the characters being honest about them being out there for mostly selfish reasons. A typical adventurer is a grave-robber, a mercenary, and an assassin, and I don't see any reason trying to hide stuff like that behind noble and righteous ideals just to make the players feel better. Emptying the pockets of an evil wizard after killing him for the local peasantry is murder and robbery, be the party full of paladins or not. Because of these double-standards, instead of forcing the players to make their characters farmers so that they won't even accidentally do anything remotely evil, I prefer to remind them that a character's personality doesn't depend on the alignment, but the other way around. Stepping too far is only a concern for paladins, but fortunately even paladins of the Realms have it a bit easier when different deities represent different ideals. Of course, paladins in the Realms and in my games still need to be lawful good, it's just that they don't need to feel guilty about every damn thing they do.

* * *

When the BBEG is raving about his plans for world domination, don't reason with him to be a good little psycho and please stop slaughtering and enslaving people. Just cut him off in mid-sentence with a good critical hit. Then go home and sleep soundly.

Precisely!
dragonheart
07-08-04, 12:57 AM I don't think I've ever played an evil character and most of mine are CG or NG. yeah it can be fun ( I suppose) to be destructive, donimeering etc but its a lot more fun to be trying to create something really good adn long lasting/useful to everyone - even in fantasy games. any idiot can be anarchistic, destructive and domineering, actually thinking about consequences and goals other than everyone do as I say and then playing it out trying to keep that ideal going can be 10+ times more challenging. you want to play all the badguys? take a turn as the group DM jsut rememvber that as DM its not about you and your jollies its abotu the group having fun and getting to live out their fantasies to some extent. the "killer" DMs seem toforget this and go for their own pleasure making sure the BBEG wins so they win - and so everyone loses
Mel Ann Cholly
07-08-04, 10:47 AM I've got one player who *claims* to play good, but every character ends up being quite evil.

Such as a cleric (homebrew world) who would try to animate anything the party killed. Ex: they kill a giant. He wants to use Create Greater Undead to turn it into a vampire. And a ranger who would use any sort of Con drain poison he could get his hands on. Or a psion who not only would charm most monsters, but also dominated the rest of the party.

At present he isn't in my current campaign, and I'm actually kinda thankful for that because I need a good party (doing a return of Bhaal)

I do have another player who goes back and forth. If he's a good cleric, he's a good cleric. If he's a good rogue, he's an evil rogue :D

As for me, I'll play anything and everything. I tend to play Paladins who eventually fall because the DM likes to orchestrate my fall from grace, but it's fun. I also play the occasional druid where I try to balance my good and evil deeds.
Otus
07-08-04, 11:15 AM I've DM'ed a couple of games with evil guys (and gals) but based on my experience I may not allow them the next time.
Alac Luin
07-08-04, 02:31 PM I have a player that WANTS to be evil, they want to set up (in time) a thief guild and doing dark things.
But while playing, always does the Good thing, she helps people with little thought of self.
I would consider her charicter CG, but I let her say she is CN becouse she WANTS to be CE.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dalimar 07-05-04, 08:33 AM	Do your Pc's tend to veer toward the dark side in your games or do they mostly champion the forces of good?
Cunning Linguist 07-05-04, 08:56 AM	They mostly swing toward the dark side.
MakesMeSick 07-05-04, 11:14 AM	They try not to steer off the path of righteousness and remain on the "good" side, although they usually don't associate with the known "good" organizations across Faerūn (such as the Harpers, etc.), and prefer to work "solo".
Monsoon28 07-05-04, 02:07 PM	They generally walk the fine line between the two, there is more gray in the world than black & white.
Another Gnome 07-05-04, 02:50 PM	I like my games rough and dirty; the characters are most often heroes without being good, or good without being heroes. And I think FR is an ideal setting for that kind of play. In a world where villains are allowed to have half a brain and even a heart in some cases, heroes too can be less than perfect without feeling hopeless. By "perfect" and "hopeless" I don't so much mean ability, but mentality. Anyone less than perfect in a world of absolute darkness and vileness would feel pretty hopeless, but in the Realms there's no need for that when few villains are without any redeeming qualities, no matter how evil and cruel and malicious they might be in general.
Ssussunriyh 07-05-04, 03:17 PM	I subscribe to the Anti-Hero philosophy, myself. One who has good aims, but questionable methods.
paradoxmage 07-05-04, 05:12 PM	neutral mostly while walking that fine line of evil thoughts, and they tend to have spots of rightousness here and there.
Land Outcast 07-05-04, 05:56 PM	Who pays better? and a tint of good.
Ferol, Debtor of Torm 07-05-04, 07:32 PM	Sigh, you guys are depressing me.... Am I the only person who still likes to play a good old fasioned GOOD guy? You know, the kind who actually does always try to do the right thing, and doesn't always believe that the ends justifies the means? I for one am tired of playing in campaigns filled to the brim with brooding anti-heroes. Some argue that actual GOOD guys are unrealistic, but I refuse to believe that. Granted all characters have to have some sort of flaws but do they all have to... "neutral mostly while walking that fine line of evil thoughts" or "I like my games rough and dirty; the characters are most often heroes without being good, or good without being heroes" or "They mostly swing toward the dark side" Gah, I suppose you guys just remind me too much of all the ravenloft players I used to play with.
warlockco 07-05-04, 11:05 PM	I tend to prefer to be CN or CG myself, with the occasional LN. One my players is almost always a good cleric or a paladin. 2 of them tend to be sneaky types (Ranger/Rogues) of LN and NG alignments respectively. I tell players upfront that if they want to be evil, be ready to answer to other members of the party. Especially with a Paladin usually in the group. Currently getting geared up to run an underdark game based out of Menzoberranzan, and it looks like its going to be a party of Priestesses of Lolth, at least at first :smirk: they will soon learn to diversify.
Gray Richardson 07-05-04, 11:08 PM	In my campaign all the players play heroes and aspire to the traditional fantasy heroic ideals. One time the party came across a glabrezu demon strapped to a table missing one of it's arms that had been amputated for grafting purposes by the BBEG necromancer. The party disturbed his magical slumber and upon waking the demon broke free from the straps and reared up to his full height, screaming. The party did the usual number of blasting it with everything they had. In a moment's inspiration, just to be different, on the demon's initiative I had it plop down, drop it's head into its remaining hands and start weeping in great demony sobs. The players were taken aback, not knowing how to react. After engaging it in conversation it related a sad tale of woe about how it was having a really bad day and didn't understand why everyone was trying to kill him. He had just been picking blood daisies in the abyss, minding its own business, when some evil guy summoned him, strapped him down and cut off his arm. Shortly after awaking from the shock he was surrounded by a scarry group of humans that were trying to blow him to smithereens. The party suddenly was falling all over themselves to apologize and try to heal the monster. One player even used up the one wish that a Glabrezu can grant to a mortal humanoid to unselfishly restore the demon's arm and send him back to the abyss! After the encounter was over the party was totally confused as to whether the demon was just having them on or really an innocent victim that they had helped. At the very least though they were proud that they had upheld their heroic ideals and it made for a lot more interesting evening's role playing experience than the fighting and slaying they usually do.
Ferol, Debtor of Torm 07-05-04, 11:18 PM	In my campaign all the players play heroes and aspire to the traditional fantasy heroic ideals. Woot! That story brought a tear to my eye. After reading the book of exalted deeds I look on being good under a different light. I don't go around willy-nilly smiting everything in sight... convert those demon and devils to the side of good! Edit: Grr I somehow screwed up the quote...
Plunderer_of_the_planes 07-06-04, 12:37 AM	This is a tough one. I guess we play more off the good/evil axsis rather than the law/chaos one. As well we generally feel alignment as presented is too restraining. ( a belief most of my group has held since we baegan playing years ago) so we really don't get too hung up about it. I have thought of switching to the d20 modern allegence system but I don't know if that will work as well. All in all My players tend to act and think like Adventurers who depend upon the next big find for survival so I would say we're more NG or N than anything....
Ssussunriyh 07-06-04, 01:18 AM	My characters aren't brooding and haunted, like Frank Castle aka the Punisher... They just don't waste time and effort trying to sway some BBEG who they believe is corrupted beyond all hope of redemption. Just kill them ASAP, just as you would a rabid dog or a poisonous snake, for the simple reason that they're too dangerous to leave alive. When the BBEG is raving about his plans for world domination, don't reason with him to be a good little psycho and please stop slaughtering and enslaving people. Just cut him off in mid-sentence with a good critical hit. Then go home and sleep soundly.
Valgard 07-06-04, 05:47 AM	Me and my roleplaying partners really have a serious problem concearning alignments. Only me, and another guy of my group really always try to take good alignment. Another guy is between the neutral and good patterns. All other ones are neutral tending to evil. On my first days of playing (about two or three years ago) I tried to play many times a paladin and then adverting to people please not to take evil alignment, or at least, to seem not being evil. The other DM that rules D&D in my group (I am the other DM who usually runs D&D) has an icy perception of alignment and running a good guy usually gives disadvantage to this character. So paladin, one of my favourite classes is in really disadvantage :(
Another Gnome 07-06-04, 06:43 AM	Gah, I suppose you guys just remind me too much of all the ravenloft players I used to play with. Damn. And I even clarified my intial statement with the intent of not getting mixed up with Ravenloft mentality... :( Well, I'll clarify a bit more, then. First, there's an absolute ban on evil PCs in my table. I've allowed an evil PC one time, and it took ten minutes before he was planning on double-crossing his party members. It took me ten minutes to decide that the evil PC gets squashed by the giant DM anvil of doom! and that the player will roll a new character, and that the subject is not even mentioned ever again. Second, I don't at all mind the characters being honest about them being out there for mostly selfish reasons. A typical adventurer is a grave-robber, a mercenary, and an assassin, and I don't see any reason trying to hide stuff like that behind noble and righteous ideals just to make the players feel better. Emptying the pockets of an evil wizard after killing him for the local peasantry is murder and robbery, be the party full of paladins or not. Because of these double-standards, instead of forcing the players to make their characters farmers so that they won't even accidentally do anything remotely evil, I prefer to remind them that a character's personality doesn't depend on the alignment, but the other way around. Stepping too far is only a concern for paladins, but fortunately even paladins of the Realms have it a bit easier when different deities represent different ideals. Of course, paladins in the Realms and in my games still need to be lawful good, it's just that they don't need to feel guilty about every damn thing they do. * * * When the BBEG is raving about his plans for world domination, don't reason with him to be a good little psycho and please stop slaughtering and enslaving people. Just cut him off in mid-sentence with a good critical hit. Then go home and sleep soundly. Precisely!
dragonheart 07-08-04, 12:57 AM	I don't think I've ever played an evil character and most of mine are CG or NG. yeah it can be fun ( I suppose) to be destructive, donimeering etc but its a lot more fun to be trying to create something really good adn long lasting/useful to everyone - even in fantasy games. any idiot can be anarchistic, destructive and domineering, actually thinking about consequences and goals other than everyone do as I say and then playing it out trying to keep that ideal going can be 10+ times more challenging. you want to play all the badguys? take a turn as the group DM jsut rememvber that as DM its not about you and your jollies its abotu the group having fun and getting to live out their fantasies to some extent. the "killer" DMs seem toforget this and go for their own pleasure making sure the BBEG wins so they win - and so everyone loses
Mel Ann Cholly 07-08-04, 10:47 AM	I've got one player who claims to play good, but every character ends up being quite evil. Such as a cleric (homebrew world) who would try to animate anything the party killed. Ex: they kill a giant. He wants to use Create Greater Undead to turn it into a vampire. And a ranger who would use any sort of Con drain poison he could get his hands on. Or a psion who not only would charm most monsters, but also dominated the rest of the party. At present he isn't in my current campaign, and I'm actually kinda thankful for that because I need a good party (doing a return of Bhaal) I do have another player who goes back and forth. If he's a good cleric, he's a good cleric. If he's a good rogue, he's an evil rogue :D As for me, I'll play anything and everything. I tend to play Paladins who eventually fall because the DM likes to orchestrate my fall from grace, but it's fun. I also play the occasional druid where I try to balance my good and evil deeds.
Otus 07-08-04, 11:15 AM	I've DM'ed a couple of games with evil guys (and gals) but based on my experience I may not allow them the next time.
Alac Luin 07-08-04, 02:31 PM	I have a player that WANTS to be evil, they want to set up (in time) a thief guild and doing dark things. But while playing, always does the Good thing, she helps people with little thought of self. I would consider her charicter CG, but I let her say she is CN becouse she WANTS to be CE.