Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Purple Dragon Knight 06-24-03, 08:54 PM	I thought this might help some of you, as I've personally wrestled with the alignment problem throughout all my DMing "career." I've devised a new way to deal with D&D alignment, heavily based on the Star Wars RPG. This will be implemented in my campaign effective September 03. This method would be a good gradual way to enable an alignment change over several game sessions. Here it goes: ------------------------------------------- The DMG guidelines are nebulous at best, stating that it can't happen overnight (they say the soonest one could switch alignment is a week's time). I've devised a system where I'll record any clear good, evil, lawful and chaotic actions done by the PCs during each game, and give them a status at the end of a given game (a game defined by three to four hours of continuous play; if the games are longer, I'll give you a status on this after a similar amount of time). Such actions will grant Chaos, Law, Good and Evil points. The amount of pts gained for a particular action will vary, and they are not subject to discussion: I am aware that this is totally subjective and from the DM’s point of view, but these points can be easily cancelled off by actions that are of opposite moral nature (i.e. Evil pts easily cancelable by Good pts; if you are not satisfied that your PC got some Evil pts, do more good actions next game. See below for more details on the exact workings of this system). I will use the Dark Side points method used in the Star Wars RPG (SWRPG) and apply it to all four alignments. The SWRPG allows you to atone for a Dark Side point by using a Force point. However, once you reach one half of your Wis score, you are considered tainted: now for each Dark Side points you get, you must roll a Will save DC 10 + your amount of Dark Side points or shift irrevocably to the Dark Side. In any event, once your Dark Side points reach your Wis score, you are also irrevocably gone to the Dark Side. The only way for a Dark character to ever atone for his deeds is perform an act of "Dramatic Heroism", like Darth Vader when he saved Luke from the Emperor. In this case, you dump all your Force points (your Force points score drop to zero) and your Dark Side points are reduced to one point less than one half your Wis score (you are now "Tainted", not "Dark", and you must now walk a fine line, i.e. getting Force points and atone for the rest of the Dark Side points you have). Now, here's my FR equivalent of this: Each PC starts out with a non-evil alignment, as usual, with a score of zero in all alignments. Once the PC starts adventuring: An evil act gives you an Evil pt; A good act gives you a Good pt; An chaotic act gives you a Chaos pt; An lawful act gives you a Law pt. An Evil pt can be cancelled at the cost of a Good pt, and vice-versa; A Chaos pt can be cancelled at the cost of a Law pt, and vice-versa; The spell "Atonement" can negate 1d10 pts (the pts negated depend on the specific faith of the caster) in ONE particular category (i.e. if the god's alignment is Chaotic Evil, you can negate 1d10 Good pts OR Law pts, not both) although multiple castings are possible over a long period of time (see below). This particular use of the Atonement spell can only be received once per year per category. A True Neutral faith can atone someone this way in ANY of the four categories, and for Neutral characters targeted by the spell, they are also able to distribute the pts reduced from a particular atonement (one received by a neutral faith only) in any of the four alignment scores. True Neutral faiths are essentially able to atone a Neutral character four times per year and reduce pts in any categories in order to keep their followers "balanced". For example, take a Neutral character with 5 Evil pts, 6 Good pts, 3 Law pts, and 4 Chaos pts. Atonement is cast on him, by a TN faith, and the 1d10 roll equal 8. The character decides to lower his Evil score by 3, his Good score by 4, and his Chaos score by 1 (8 pts distributed total). Once a PC reaches one half of his/her Wis score (round down) in any of these, he/she is considered: § Evil pts score: Despicable § Good pts score: Compassionate § Chaos pts score: Unpredictable § Law pts score: Disciplined This status has the effect of affecting the use of certain alignment-dependent items (i.e. a Chaotic Good PC that becomes Disciplined will receive a negative level when wielding a weapon with the Chaotic enchantment). Furthermore, each additional pt received in the new category results in a Will save DC 10 + amount of pts in that category. If successful, there is no effect and the character remains Despicable, Compassionate, Unpredictable, Disciplined, whatever his status is, and the alignment is unchanged (although the alignment score is modified by an additional pt). If the save is failed the character’s alignment shifts from: § Despicable to: Evil § Compassionate to: Good § Unpredictable to: Chaotic § Disciplined to: Lawful In any event, once the appropriate score reaches an amount equal to the Wis score of the individual, alignment change occurs. Any pts in excess of a character's Wis score, in any alignment score, automatically negates a pt of the opposite alignment. When there are no more pts in the opposite alignment, the individual's alignment score can go beyond the Wis score. Notes: - A Despicable or Unpredictable paladin looses all special abilities and spells, as described in p.43 of the PHB. This is considered to be "ceases to be Lawful Good" clause. The "wilfully committing an evil act clause" is achieved when the character gains an Evil pt when his/her Good pts are lower than his new (after modification) Evil pts. The "grossly violates the code of conduct" clause is achieved when the character gains a Chaos pt when his/her Law pts are lower than his new (after modification) Chaos pts. A paladin who lost his/her powers with one of the above conditions must rectify it by gaining enough Good and Law pts to cancel off the Despicable or Unpredictable status (in the case of clause 1), or bring his/her Good and Law scores higher than their Evil and Chaos scores (clauses 2 and 3). In addition, the paladin must seek a dedicated "Atonement" spell from a caster of his faith in order to regain his power (this spell has no effect on the paladin's alignment scores, nor does it count as the annual use in regards to reducing alignment scores: it is simply used to “reactivate” the paladin’s powers once he is once more suitable to use them). Here’s a diagram you can print in order to keep track of your four alignment scores: http://www3.telus.net/rebirth/alignment.JPG Here’s an example of a Lawful Good character with a Wisdom of 16, a Good score of 7, and Evil score of 2, a Law score of 4 and a Chaos score of 9. In this case, the Lawful Good character has become Unpredictable and runs the risk to become Chaotic every times he gains an additional Chaos point. When he received his 8th Chaos pt, he became Unpredictable. When he received his 9th Chaos pt, he successfully made a Will save DC 19 (DC 10 + 9 Chaos pts) to remain Lawful. If he had failed, his alignment would have shifted from Lawful to Chaotic (the Good and Chaotic boxes would be checked off and the Lawful and Unpredictable boxes would be left blank) http://www3.telus.net/rebirth/alignmentExample.JPG
Kilamar 06-24-03, 09:05 PM	Too much work, too complicated. Kilamar
Purple Dragon Knight 06-25-03, 05:10 AM	How? as a DM or as a player? Here's what this means in term of additional duties in my campaign: DM (me or DM2): - puts a letter (G, E, L or C) under each PC's name every time a major "alignment" action occurs - award the alignment points at the end of each session at the same time experience is awarded (one alignment pt. for every letter recorded) - keep track of every PC's alignment score (optional: this can be deferred to PCs if DM-Player trust level is good) Players: - nothing, unless they keep track of their alignment scores So, in my case anyway, I don't find it tenuous. I admit that this might be too hard for some DMs to do though (especially new DMs). I would agree that this should not be used by those that are new at DMing or those that have problems coping with their existing groups. In my campaign, we are going to give it a shot. I see it as a feedback method meant to improve each player's roleplaying experience. It is also meant to force me, the DM, to be more attentive to each PC's actions, goals, motives, etc. PDK
Jon the Smith 06-25-03, 07:11 AM	I agree with Kilamar. And besides that, I think there is enough explanation in the PBH concerning alignments. Room for roleplay, IMHO. Not for diagrams. But if you people like to do what you do, do.
Alisttair 06-25-03, 09:58 AM	Just do like in the NWN game and have a 0 0 to 100 100 score for alignment, where 0 is chaotic and evil and 100 is lawful and good and 50 is neutral and id check the exact points between but i dont feel like checking at the moment, but hell a whole freakin diagram is too much for nothing.
Herr Doktor 06-25-03, 10:32 AM	How can a True Neutral character maintain his alignment? There are no Neutral acts, every single act he can commit will draw him further from his alignment choice. Shouldn't there be some sort of Neutral element? Or am I missing something?
PhilCW 06-25-03, 12:10 PM	One of the only few good things from the Rifts and Palladium mechanics system was their alignment system. Rather than arbitrarily call something good or evil, they gave a more nebulous title to each alignment (although they were easy to associate to the classical D&D) with examples of moral conduct depending on the alignment.
Purple Dragon Knight 06-25-03, 06:24 PM	Originally posted by Herr Doktor How can a True Neutral character maintain his alignment? There are no Neutral acts, every single act he can commit will draw him further from his alignment choice. Shouldn't there be some sort of Neutral element? Or am I missing something? No, you are not... and that's a very good question. Thanks for asking! :) I attempted to solve this problem by adding flexibility to the atonement process (please refer to the first post), which allows a neutral character to reduce all scores simultaneously. Also, remember that a PC can cancel pts at a one for one cost. For example, a Neutral character with 8 evil pts and 10 good pts really has only 2 good points (because he can cancel the 8 evil pts with 8 good pts). By regularly "cancelling off" pts that are getting close to half his Wis value, a Neutral character can maintain his neutrality. If, however, the character starts gravitating towards a specific alignment despite his attempts to keep the alignment scores in check, this merely indicates that this character is in fact switching to another alignment, or that this player is not playing the character properly. The good thing about this alignment system is that the DM's impartiality is maintained: no longer does he/she needs to yell to a player "you're not playing your alignment properly!!" All the DM needs to do is assign the alignment points and wait for the players to self-correct themselves. One less concern for the DM. PDK
Druxus Rhym 07-09-03, 06:38 PM	I believe that's a great idea I've thought about using "alignment points" just never got around to it I thank you for saving me the time:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
Alisttair 07-10-03, 03:50 PM	I stand by the fact that it's too complicated to follow that graph. Mega pointless work in my most humble of opinions. Find a simpler way.
Purple Dragon Knight 07-10-03, 04:35 PM	Thanks for your input Alisttair, but I've implemented this in my campaign already, and it works quite well. I give out the alignment points at the same time as experience and voila: done. Our group likes graphs, but maybe that's because the majority of us have engineering or computer backgrounds... D&D + graphs = geeks' paradise :angel: