Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sun Krigo 12-03-05, 01:38 PM	My sibling and I disagree upon my alignment. Given this scenerio, tell me what alignment I am with an explanation: An invitation and map are sent to me, the location is deep within the local woods. Me and my party decide to travel to a far point outside the location, because we suspect this village may be related to elves we also suspect a mythal may be apart of the village. The clerics try to detect good alignments within the village but the search is prohibited by some force, probably a mythal. I have come to a conclusion: if alignment detection is prohibited, then the inhabitants are more than likely not good. Whoever invited me to this non-good place is also not of a good alignment, and either seeks to annhilate or enslave me. They deserve to be destroyed!
theonlygolux 12-03-05, 01:44 PM	My sibling and I disagree upon my alignment. Given this scenerio, tell me what alignment I am with an explanation: An invitation and map are sent to me, the location is deep within the local woods. Me and my party decide to travel to a far point outside the location, because we suspect this village may be related to elves we also suspect a mythal may be apart of the village. The clerics try to detect good alignments within the village but the search is prohibited by some force, probably a mythal. I have come to a conclusion: if alignment detection is prohibited, then the inhabitants are more than likely not good. Whoever invited me to this non-good place is also not of a good alignment, and either seeks to annhilate or enslave me. They deserve to be destroyed! Well, if your party is evil, it is possible the mythal shields against evil attempts to detect alignment... Otherwise I would say good, but whether chaotic or lawful depends on various things. I would think you are unlikely to be neutral good. I play with a Paladin of Tyr who is gradually learning that not everything evil MUST be destroyed NOW, but his lawful good inclinations suggest to him that if something is evil it must be destroyed, however, this is not because it is seeking to do evil to him,simply because it is evil. So perhaps more likely is Chaotic Good, where it is a personal choice, but an attempt specifically upon yourself might provoke a more severe reaction than if it were upon others...
Sun Krigo 12-03-05, 01:47 PM	How come you didn't consider neutral? I guess I should be more specific. None of my party members (including me) are good. I hate all elves above ground, mythals because they usually keep chaos at bay, and I'll destroy a town if provoked. Another scenerio: Because I worship Talos, my party members and I are attracting negative attention by destroying mugs and frequently chipping the tables at a town bar. The bar owner requests that I stop or leave, my reply "No. Bring another round!" having in mind that I hardly care what bill will be when I leave, I am likely to pay it. A member of a party also in the bar confronts me, telling, not asking, to stop destroying the bar owner's property. I tell the adventure to get away from me or die. Fight starts, opposing party dies. At this point I'm so infuriated, that me and my party decimate the town.
Mr.Moonrat 12-03-05, 05:58 PM	My answer is chaotic neutral. The character's longing to destroy something without any real knowledge, is chaotic to me. And I don't see it as a good or evil reflection, only as sort of a strange self-defence.
Sun Krigo 12-03-05, 06:05 PM	My answer is chaotic neutral. The character's longing to destroy something without any real knowledge, is chaotic to me. And I don't see it as a good or evil reflection, only as sort of a strange self-defence. Right when I was editin', too. That was the answer I was lookin' for, my sibling says I'm Chaotic Evil. The Wizard alignment test says I'm Neutral Evil. This would be the second time I've gotten a CN reply, thus proving my sibling wrong...
Zevox 12-03-05, 06:23 PM	I'd say Chaotic Evil based on that last. The fact that you're jumping to killing so quickly is an indication of the evil alignment (according to the PHB, neutral characters still have qualms against unecessary killing, whereas evil ones think nothing of it or outright enjoy it). The frenzy immediately thereafter could be said to be simply chaotic (though I'm uncertain on that one), but the fact that you're jumping straight to threatening death and subsequently killing without significant provocation is a clear indication of an evil alignment. Zevox
Gray Richardson 12-03-05, 06:54 PM	Neither stupidity nor capacity to reason have anything to do with alignment. The fact that the character jumps to a conclusion doesn't make him evil or good or chaotic or lawful. It is the decision he makes based on his conclusion (right or wrong) that indicates his alignment. I would therefore say he is probably lawful good. He is good because he opposes evil, feels threatended by evil and wants to do good. Lawful because of his inability to see shades of gray or interpret the situation in any way other than in absolutes. But I am not sure there is enough information here to draw a firm conclusion about the character's alignment. All we know is that he is prone to draw instant conclusions based on little information without reflection on alternate explanations. This would seem to be more indicative of his intelligence or wisdom score.
Sun Krigo 12-03-05, 06:59 PM	Ok, one more scenerio. This one I always like to play in my head, because it involves my favorite prestige class: As a Half-Shadow Dragon, I make my way through alleys and backdoors to inns and shops, paying slightly more money than a "regular" customer. I'm in this city as a passerby before I make mischief as a Silver Dragon at another town or city. The Tarrasque makes his appearence at this city, a beast worth my attention and a challenge to my studies and power. I Shapechange/Polymorph (Master Transmogrifist) into a Colossal Kraken with the skin and qualities of the Tarrasque. Massive brawl, Tarrasque is killed needlessly after it tried to escape. I reduce myself back to my original form and wait for the cities inhabitants reaction. If it's negative, I'll fly away, recover, and decimate half the city. Positive, I'll demand a prize or a future favor.
Zevox 12-03-05, 08:27 PM	Well, that last there ("I reduce myself back to my original form and wait for the cities inhabitants reaction. If it's negative, I'll fly away, recover, and decimate half the city. Positive, I'll demand a prize or a future favor.") shows a distinct selfishness on this character's part, if nothing else. Meaning hes definitely non-good. The idea of planning to cause mischief in another town later is another indication of a non-good alignment at the least, probably a non-lawful one as well. The fact that he'd decimate half the city just because of a negative reaction to him when he did something highly startling seems to point to a chaotic personality to me (as it is a rather arbitrary and reckless action), and to a degree also an evil one (again, lack of concern about the act of killing others). The other portions of the incident don't really point to any alignment, just a rather large ego. Zevox
BrianCritchley 12-03-05, 08:28 PM	ugh, honestly, yes slaughtering a town for not allowing alignment detection is evil. there are plenty of valid reasons not for allowing it, in particular maybe they don't want paladins coming in and making a pest. or yes maybe there's an evil wizard in the city but to say everyone is? BTW. you turned into a KRAKEN?! In a CITY!? :confused:
Sun Krigo 12-03-05, 08:57 PM	I just took a look in the Player's Handbook, thanks to my sibling. I now have to come to terms with the fact that I'm Chaotic Evil...
Cainan 12-04-05, 12:17 AM	You solo'd a Tarrasque? Is that just some hypothetical example, or from real experience? Cause it seems a bit extreme.
Sun Krigo 12-04-05, 02:02 AM	You solo'd a Tarrasque? Is that just some hypothetical example, or from real experience? Cause it seems a bit extreme. Hypothetical. I'd have to be a good number above thirty levels and the fight would take a while...
joepoe 12-04-05, 05:06 AM	Neither stupidity nor capacity to reason have anything to do with alignment. The fact that the character jumps to a conclusion doesn't make him evil or good or chaotic or lawful. It is the decision he makes based on his conclusion (right or wrong) that indicates his alignment. I would therefore say he is probably lawful good. He is good because he opposes evil, feels threatended by evil and wants to do good. Imo the example you give is a neutral, not good, act. The laws are the right thing to this character, no matter the people. So that will make the character L-n. Lawful because of his inability to see shades of gray or interpret the situation in any way other than in absolutes. But I am not sure there is enough information here to draw a firm conclusion about the character's alignment. All we know is that he is prone to draw instant conclusions based on little information without reflection on alternate explanations. This would seem to be more indicative of his intelligence or wisdom score.
joepoe 12-04-05, 05:19 AM	My sibling and I disagree upon my alignment. Given this scenerio, tell me what alignment I am with an explanation: An invitation and map are sent to me, the location is deep within the local woods. Me and my party decide to travel to a far point outside the location, because we suspect this village may be related to elves we also suspect a mythal may be apart of the village. The clerics try to detect good alignments within the village but the search is prohibited by some force, probably a mythal. I have come to a conclusion: if alignment detection is prohibited, then the inhabitants are more than likely not good. Whoever invited me to this non-good place is also not of a good alignment, and either seeks to annhilate or enslave me. They deserve to be destroyed! If you easily get angry and act acordingly to that (like killing for no reason) - yeah, you sure are C-e. If you are somewhat more restrained, and may kill "your problem" (a Npc) by stalking him/her outside when he/she leaves, I'd say N-e.
Sun Krigo 12-04-05, 10:43 AM	If you easily get angry and act acordingly to that (like killing for no reason) - yeah, you sure are C-e. If you are somewhat more restrained, and may kill "your problem" (a Npc) by stalking him/her outside when he/she leaves, I'd say N-e. Originally, since I thought I was Chaotic Neutral, my conclusion was that if the person invited to this area where there is no alignment detection allowed and dealing with my type (Worshipper of Talos), then that person is no good anyway. With my understanding of mythals, I would stalk outside for the citizens to exit. Kidnap one, ask him what the mythal does, who his master is, and give me the item that he may or may not possess to act within the mythal over torture. If he gives no information, torture him some more then kill him. After more tortures, I gather an army of hybrid OrcTrolls, commanding them from a save distance. If successful, one OrcTroll would be sent into the dead village with a magical item to destroy the mythal. Then I would have my own personal Wild Magic zone...
BrianCritchley 12-04-05, 07:01 PM	and you'd kill all the chosen right? :rolleyes:
Sun Krigo 12-04-05, 07:15 PM	and you'd kill all the chosen right? :rolleyes: Of Mystra, yeah. If I could...
Alac Luin 12-04-05, 07:24 PM	Destroying a city because of a bar fight? definitely chaotic evil. Destroying a town because it blocks detect alighnment? Well, not thought out well. Does it block other divination spells? detect alighnment is only part of a series of other spells that are blocked by the same things. The fact that detect alighnment is blocked may only be a side effect of what the residents of the town were really trying to block, like Detect Thoughts or Detect Animals or Plants. These are reasonable measures a good community might take to try to hide them from evil people that would destroy them, like a wondering CE worshiper of Talos. ;)
SMW 12-04-05, 07:36 PM	My brain can not even begin to make the words to describe the levels of chaos, evil, and rampant munchkinism involved in your plans.
Sun Krigo 12-04-05, 07:52 PM	Hilarious, you two. Now see, all this time I thought Neutral because I felt I was in the right to assume that someone wants me dead if there's something even remotely suspicious and get the drop on them. Or that a town deserves to taste some of the might of the threat, I rid them of, after rejecting my presence. Especially if a town decides to try to end my life or strip me of my dignity by sending a party of goodies because I've "caused a ruckus". But I guess that really is just Evil...
SMW 12-04-05, 08:04 PM	Extremely evil. That is the stuff VILLAINS in campaigns do.
BrianCritchley 12-04-05, 08:28 PM	Hilarious, you two. Now see, all this time I thought Neutral because I felt I was in the right to assume that someone wants me dead if there's something even remotely suspicious and get the drop on them. Or that a town deserves to taste some of the might of the threat, I rid them of, after rejecting my presence. Especially if a town decides to try to end my life or strip me of my dignity by sending a party of goodies because I've "caused a ruckus". But I guess that really is just Evil... yes it's evil to attempt to destroy a town if they send "goodies" afetr you because you've "Caused a rucckus." it's like this, let's say someone has commited a crime and the police are sent after them. they kill the police, and then run around killing random people in the town because they sent the police after you. would you not agree thats evil?
Cainan 12-04-05, 08:36 PM	Just remember, neutral will do good much more than it will do evil. A neutral person is more or less just not good, than evil. It's the person who does not believe in being good all the time and always helping out othes and risking their own lives, but they still hate evil.
Rauric 12-04-05, 10:08 PM	How come you didn't consider neutral? I guess I should be more specific. None of my party members (including me) are good. I hate all elves above ground, mythals because they usually keep chaos at bay, and I'll destroy a town if provoked. Another scenerio: Because I worship Talos, my party members and I are attracting negative attention by destroying mugs and frequently chipping the tables at a town bar. The bar owner requests that I stop or leave, my reply "No. Bring another round!" having in mind that I hardly care what bill will be when I leave, I am likely to pay it. A member of a party also in the bar confronts me, telling, not asking, to stop destroying the bar owner's property. I tell the adventure to get away from me or die. Fight starts, opposing party dies. At this point I'm so infuriated, that me and my party decimate the town. ... :weep: Remember all those memories of D&D in grade school and high school? Kinda glad those days are long gone. I like playing a different kind of evil character than you and your young friends do. Mt Zhent pc wanted to protect the Moonsea region. He would just do anything to protect it. Not burn down villages. Unless I was ordered to I guess. I would torture, lie, steal, kidnap for the good of the Zhentarim, hence for the good of the Moonsea region. I also gave money to orphanages, helped townsfolk against hostile creatures and ran into a burning house to save my dear friends and adventuring companions. If I was sent on assignment to another region I would never do anything to blow my cover or bring attention to myself. Neither would my chaotic evil companion. He kept the fact that he liked to capture and kill women and children from the whole group. His illusions and enchantment spells were good for that. He just seemed a little nastier and demented than the rest of us at times. Even he would'nt take down a whole town. He had more brains than that. He was very sneaky though. That was an ok game. Anyway your most likley chaoic evil or chaotic neutral. Maybe more on the neutral bent if you only kill when provoked. So has anyone been dispatched to bring your generally evil group of thugs to justice? On a side note I made detect good and evil a very high level spell for reasons like this. I think it is a horrible spell for low levels that can really disrupt the plot and story I develop. If pallys can use this at will why doesn't every town that is even slightly good have these "evil detectors" at every entranceway? That way they can keep an eye on all of the people with evil taint. I think I made it useable at lvl 15 or so. I switched the pallys ability with an ability to detect hostility twords them from 60 feet or so like a power found in the expanded Psionics guide.
Rauric 12-04-05, 10:12 PM	Ok, one more scenerio. This one I always like to play in my head, because it involves my favorite prestige class: As a Half-Shadow Dragon, I make my way through alleys and backdoors to inns and shops, paying slightly more money than a "regular" customer. I'm in this city as a passerby before I make mischief as a Silver Dragon at another town or city. The Tarrasque makes his appearence at this city, a beast worth my attention and a challenge to my studies and power. I Shapechange/Polymorph (Master Transmogrifist) into a Colossal Kraken with the skin and qualities of the Tarrasque. Massive brawl, Tarrasque is killed needlessly after it tried to escape. I reduce myself back to my original form and wait for the cities inhabitants reaction. If it's negative, I'll fly away, recover, and decimate half the city. Positive, I'll demand a prize or a future favor. Krakens are aquatic creatures right? Can they breathe in an open air enviroment also?
BrianCritchley 12-04-05, 10:40 PM	detect evil is less useful when you consider that rings of mind sheilding etc are pretty cheap.
Sun Krigo 12-04-05, 10:40 PM	Krakens are aquatic creatures right? Can they breathe in an open air enviroment also? Krakens can't, I can. Besides, I could just make myself have the Tarrasque lungs...
Rauric 12-04-05, 10:52 PM	detect evil is less useful when you consider that rings of mind sheilding etc are pretty cheap. Yeah but what about common thugs who cannot afford them? They will likely have good folk following them around after the taint of evil was detected. What about that shop keeper who murdered his wife? He can't afford a ring or any magic item so when the local constable with his caster or pally comes to investigate that guy is SOL. Even if they cannot prove he did the murder they all know he is capable of evil acts. I just don't like it and my players do not care one bit. They now have to use sense motive more and keep their heads about them. It was a tool in the old D&D days because every evil person in the old days must have been out to kill, rob, or lie to the pcs. Evil couldn't possibly lend pcs a hand or even supply them goods for no good reason than to make money. In the old days I guess evil beings were tools of the DM and the Dms job was to kill the players. Well maybe in the Kuntz Gygax games I guess. ;) I am not a big fan of the D&Ds founder after some of the negative and sour grape type things he said about Greenwood and the Realms. Oh well.
Ozymandias V. 12-05-05, 01:21 PM	To OP: That represents a flawed thought process. The good thing to do would be to scout it out cautiously until you're certain they're evil. So far all you know is that they don't want people throwing around alignment detection...or maybe that's just a side-effect of some other effect, like something that stops all divination magic. If you start killing people your DM should slam you with a serious slide toward evil because for all you know you're slaughtering innocents. You haven't been given any conclusive proof that they are in fact evil. It seems that you're just itching to kill something.
Sun Krigo 12-05-05, 10:29 PM	To OP: That represents a flawed thought process. The good thing to do would be to scout it out cautiously until you're certain they're evil. So far all you know is that they don't want people throwing around alignment detection...or maybe that's just a side-effect of some other effect, like something that stops all divination magic. If you start killing people your DM should slam you with a serious slide toward evil because for all you know you're slaughtering innocents. You haven't been given any conclusive proof that they are in fact evil. It seems that you're just itching to kill something. Alright, so what business do good-aligned people have with a Chaotic Evil Half-Shadow Dragon Sorcerer?
BrianCritchley 12-05-05, 11:53 PM	Alright, so what business do good-aligned people have with a Chaotic Evil Half-Shadow Dragon Sorcerer? who knows? won't know till you find out, maybe they wanna hire an adventurer and your just the only game in town? Krakens can't, I can. Besides, I could just make myself have the Tarrasque lungs... that would be.. difficult given the nature of biology. you can't just give another animal a differnt set of lungs, you'd have to totally redesign their circulatory system.
Sun Krigo 12-06-05, 12:55 AM	who knows? won't know till you find out, maybe they wanna hire an adventurer and your just the only game in town? that would be.. difficult given the nature of biology. you can't just give another animal a differnt set of lungs, you'd have to totally redesign their circulatory system. Ok, I've been practicing that. I should, I'm a Master Transmogrifist for Talos' sake...
Rauric 12-06-05, 12:59 PM	Does it say you can switch the nervous system in this classes rules. I don't have the book so I do not know. Or is it a house rule? Maybe the members of this town is filled with evil folk and not good.
Ozymandias V. 12-07-05, 12:35 PM	Alright, so what business do good-aligned people have with a Chaotic Evil Half-Shadow Dragon Sorcerer? I was referring to the original post. =(
Alac Luin 12-07-05, 01:36 PM	Alright, so what business do good-aligned people have with a Chaotic Evil Half-Shadow Dragon Sorcerer? Wait a minute, aren't you the Chaotic Evil Half-Shadow Dragon Sorcerer? What business would good-aligned people have with you? None, I'd suppose. Except to defend themselves from you when you start slaying innocent people because you've had a few ales, or you get ticked off at the anti-divination wards they have set up to keep evil people from scrying them.
Rauric 12-08-05, 08:52 PM	They could be evil or neutral aligned folk. They do not have to be good.
Sun Krigo 12-08-05, 08:52 PM	In the original post, I stated that an invitation was sent along with a map to the place...
Rauric 12-08-05, 09:16 PM	You know nothing of this town? Did you do any reserch on it? They may be of a secretive nature or just wanting privacy. THere could be a powerful caster here that likes to keep his alignment on the hush hush. If they are evil why would they want to enslave or kill you?
BrianCritchley 12-08-05, 10:54 PM	Does it say you can switch the nervous system in this classes rules. I don't have the book so I do not know. Or is it a house rule? Maybe the members of this town is filled with evil folk and not good. you can't IIRC.
Rauric 12-11-05, 01:57 AM	Ok, so it is a house rule.
Leap_UK 12-11-05, 04:33 AM	In regards to the original post, the bit that really shows you aint being good is the use of the word "deserve" in that last sentence......
Sun Krigo 12-11-05, 08:36 PM	you can't IIRC. Doesn't say anything about it, but I'd assume that you do gain the base creature's internal organs. Alright then switch it, Colossal Tarrasque with Kraken qualities...
Rauric 12-17-05, 02:25 AM	SO what happened with the village?
Detrusor 12-18-05, 10:49 PM	Sounds you rather play Diablo or Dungeon keeper - hack and slay, not any P&P RPG (no offense meant, I like Diablo). In Faerun, if you run amok and kill every evil-aligned guy you encounter on the street, you either meet the LN city guard and go to prison, or you wake with the poisoned dagger of a famous assasin protruding from your chest (Those slaver organisations can be quite protective of their thugs). If your play evil (and Sun Krigo, you play chaotic evil) and raze a thorp, you may well challenge a Paladin with an ancient golden dragon companion (expecially as a shadow-dragon), or the same LN city guard. So a half-shadow-dragon sorcerer? What level sorcerer? Mind to part with some statistics of your tarrasque-slaying abilities? I too hate elves, I too like to play evil, but itīs a lot more fun to play subtile - give it a try. (And read WotSQ, a certain assassin with draconic family ties to you there wreaks havoc - subtile)
Sun Krigo 12-19-05, 01:02 AM	Sounds you rather play Diablo or Dungeon keeper - hack and slay, not any P&P RPG (no offense meant, I like Diablo). In Faerun, if you run amok and kill every evil-aligned guy you encounter on the street, you either meet the LN city guard and go to prison, or you wake with the poisoned dagger of a famous assasin protruding from your chest (Those slaver organisations can be quite protective of their thugs). If your play evil (and Sun Krigo, you play chaotic evil) and raze a thorp, you may well challenge a Paladin with an ancient golden dragon companion (expecially as a shadow-dragon), or the same LN city guard. So a half-shadow-dragon sorcerer? What level sorcerer? Mind to part with some statistics of your tarrasque-slaying abilities? I too hate elves, I too like to play evil, but itīs a lot more fun to play subtile - give it a try. (And read WotSQ, a certain assassin with draconic family ties to you there wreaks havoc - subtile) I don't think I could run amok like that until level thirty-five plus. The Tarrasque situation was just an example, although I do plan on killing him when I get my chance. I play myself (yes, it would appear that I am actually Chaotic Evil) all the time in D&D, never anything else. One exception, a Chaotic Good character. He likes to betray and murder characters of the evil alignment, along with anyone protecting them. It's the fastest way to rid the land of evil. Jogodar worships Talos, so there is no subtle... SO what happened with the village? Oh yeah. Supposedly (me and my sibling came up with the village scenerio), every inhabitant I grabbed from the village wouldn't talk, afterwards they would be tortured more then killed if they either refused to talk or didn't know anything. Plus, the mythal in the village "defended itself". So me and my party back off, raised a massive army of Troll-Orc hybrids and attack the village with them while I'm safely a few miles away. If success----- wait, didn't I already type this on the other page?
Lord_Mordecai 12-19-05, 01:27 AM	I'd say, given your three examples, that you're nothing short of neutral evil. Your contempt for rules and the quickness of your murderous decisions indicate evil. The fact that you act without regard for aid to yourself, and that you do not hesitate to extend your brutality, shows a self-centered, one-man-against-the-world mentality. If it works, keep it up. Just remember that the lawful heroes of the world wouldn't think twice about the opportunity to split you in two. That's where conceding to partnerships, even short-lived ones, with powerful people work to your advantage. I mean, you can always kill them later, but it would be a bitter encounter to meet a determined Paladin when you're all alone.