Alminster Why??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alminster Why??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
muscat36
09-20-05, 10:45 AM See i have been playing this game for about 11 years and i'm now 20. in all my time playing i have never made up rule to keep something i've made alive. But when Alminter was made every time he was killed some one (MR Green) would reles something new eg(spellfire). Why is this. how can one man's chartor live on like this. i know that other heros from forgoten relems can be kill why now him?? it has been a quest of my group to kill him and mark my word it will happen.There is no (spellfire) in 3rd ed. is there see you in hell Alminster (sorry thats right he come out of there with his head in his hands) Thanks.

For nothing
CzarGarrett
09-20-05, 01:16 PM Elminster you mean?

Well, he's supposed to be that old guy who knows just about everything, but tells just about nothing.

Please note- make your message comprehensible next time.
The White Sorcerer
09-20-05, 04:02 PM There is no (spellfire) in 3rd ed. is there
Actually, there is! Hooray!
warlockco
09-21-05, 05:30 AM Actually, there is! Hooray!

Yeah and it has been castrated.
Slime Lord
09-21-05, 08:32 AM Yeah and it has been castrated.

Randomness: Storm recently cast spellfire in one her appearnces in a recent book. Farthest Reach to be. 1 Bolt of Spellfire = Oh I won't tell. ;)
prototype00
09-21-05, 08:48 AM For some misguided reason the first thing I thought when I saw Alminster was Aleminster. Weird I know, maybe its the Realms version of Sam Adam's?

"Slake your throat with Aleminster's finest. Brewed from a secret Athlantan recipe handed down for 5 royal generations, Aleminster; its Toril's choice."

prototype00
ClobberinTime
09-21-05, 10:12 AM Storm was using silver fire.

Alminster is dead, he was elminsters little brother.
Kuje31
09-21-05, 12:40 PM Ya know. I always got a kick out of Elfminster that is in the Zakhara material. He's from Shadowdale as well and he hates Elminster. :)
GothicDan
09-21-05, 03:46 PM I'm sorry, but I can't really comprehend the original poster.

I get that he's another person who is angry with Elminster being more powerful than PCs, and who is subsequently using out-of-character reasoning to prompt in-character actions.

And to all of this, I say: When the iconic characters of a world die, the world dies, too.

For instance, when the Heroes of the Lance died in Dragonlance, the setting just lost all of its vibrancy and appeal. There was no familiarity with it.

That being said, Elminster's hardly the most powerful wizard around, the oldest, or the one to escape death the most often.

Some choice examples, all evil and more powerful spellcasters than Elminster, are Larloch, Lord Telamont Tanthul, and Shoon. Well, the last may not be older, but he's certainly more powerful.

No need to complain about something when it's already shown that there is no actual contention. Elminster is no more invincible than any other very smart, experienced archmage - though Mystra protecting him (as she does all of her Chosen) does add something to him.

And remember that all other Neutral or Good deities would most likely directly defend their Chosen/Proxies/Seraphs/what have you, so there's no reason to single out Mystra.

Also, note that I do not think that Greenwood even played Elminster as a PC; I believe he was an NPC from the start. The fact that he's been portrayed so much in novels in a more PC-way is because the company ordered Greenwood to do it, because people bought more stuff at the time when it involved Elminster.

And I'm not sure what you mean by something 'new' like spellfire.. Considering that spellfire was in the setting since it was very, very first printed by TSR.
The Simbul
09-21-05, 04:40 PM Storm was using silver fire.Or rather, Storm was using the novel version of Silver Fire....as in the kind that can instantly slay evil mages, dragons, and phaerimm with a touch, that can sunder the universe when it collides with the Shadow Weave, that can heal any Chosen who invokes it, that can be called upon several dozen times in a single battle, be hurled in all manner of shapes and sizes beyond just a 5ftx5ft beam or 70ft cone, that can emulate true Spellfire, that can restore mythals to their full power, and ricochet of each of the Seven Sisters to mass-blast evil beings into dust....

Which needless to say is a far cry from the outdated, lackluster, and sloppily converted description it is given on p56 of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting.....
Gellion
09-21-05, 06:40 PM For instance, when the Heroes of the Lance died in Dragonlance, the setting just lost all of its vibrancy and appeal. There was no familiarity with it.

I think I am the only one who did not mind the companions dying. I mean ya gotta go sometime. That way there can be new heroes in Krynn. :)
GothicDan
09-21-05, 10:36 PM I didn't mind the companions dying, actually. I think it was a good end to a good story. When the main characters of a story die, the story is over.

And yes, I typically play and view D&D more in a story/novel form than most modern RPers. 3E seems to design their worlds as more of a video game - in that if you took out X NPC it would not terribly impact the storyline so much that it could not continue in their absence.

However, this makes the NPCs less important and gives the setting less of a defined feel to it.

If too many of the FR iconic characters were to die, I think that FR's story would also be at its end.
Gallameed
09-21-05, 11:07 PM I think I am the only one who did not mind the companions dying. I mean ya gotta go sometime. That way there can be new heroes in Krynn. :)

When Tanis died I was GUTTED!

I actually cried, not sobbing and wailing, but tears ran down my face as I read on.

Great series, later destroyed...

It was the whole Fifth age thing that f'ed it all up for me, some nice ideas but no soul.
Gallameed
09-21-05, 11:21 PM I didn't mind the companions dying, actually. I think it was a good end to a good story. When the main characters of a story die, the story is over.

And yes, I typically play and view D&D more in a story/novel form than most modern RPers. 3E seems to design their worlds as more of a video game - in that if you took out X NPC it would not terribly impact the storyline so much that it could not continue in their absence.

However, this makes the NPCs less important and gives the setting less of a defined feel to it.

If too many of the FR iconic characters were to die, I think that FR's story would also be at its end.

I try to keep my "main campaign" real and have that romantic, high-fantasy feel about it.
I've had players "meet the parents", marry, (say their vows) have children, lose children, change their views and alignments (after facing the consequences of their actions) and they even once founded a town.

I've had a Necromancer who worshipped Lathander as best he could and a young priest of Ilmater give his life so a Tiefling baby could live.

Over the years my players have lost friends and loved one's, be they npc or pc. I use music in my games and a few times I've had them come to tears and my voice has broke as I'm describing the scene.

It's in those moments that role-playing pays off and you really are in another world and no video game can ever match that!

Yet. :D
Slime Lord
09-22-05, 08:13 AM Or rather, Storm was using the novel version of Silver Fire....as in the kind that can instantly slay evil mages, dragons, and phaerimm with a touch, that can sunder the universe when it collides with the Shadow Weave, that can heal any Chosen who invokes it, that can be called upon several dozen times in a single battle, be hurled in all manner of shapes and sizes beyond just a 5ftx5ft beam or 70ft cone, that can emulate true Spellfire, that can restore mythals to their full power, and ricochet of each of the Seven Sisters to mass-blast evil beings into dust....

Which needless to say is a far cry from the outdated, lackluster, and sloppily converted description it is given on p56 of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting.....

My apologizes Lady Simbul ;). I would have known the difference have I owned such Sourcebooks which would enlightenme. But, I fail too at the current time.

Only Simbul knows ;)
ClobberinTime
09-22-05, 06:45 PM I'm still just happy they got rid of Alminster, I never did like that half-gnome thamaturgist.
Banpai
09-28-05, 08:08 AM Or rather, Storm was using the novel version of Silver Fire....as in the kind that can instantly slay evil mages, dragons, and phaerimm with a touch, that can sunder the universe when it collides with the Shadow Weave, that can heal any Chosen who invokes it, that can be called upon several dozen times in a single battle, be hurled in all manner of shapes and sizes beyond just a 5ftx5ft beam or 70ft cone, that can emulate true Spellfire, that can restore mythals to their full power, and ricochet of each of the Seven Sisters to mass-blast evil beings into dust....

Which needless to say is a far cry from the outdated, lackluster, and sloppily converted description it is given on p56 of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting.....

Please explain wheter you think that Spellfire is represented far to weak in the FRCS or that the Spellfire in the Novel(s) is far to powerfull and versatile.
After reading over 100 of your posts and two PrCs I think it´s the first - but hey I love surprises. ;)
Kuje31
09-28-05, 12:01 PM Please explain wheter you think that Spellfire is represented far to weak in the FRCS or that the Spellfire in the Novel(s) is far to powerfull and versatile.
After reading over 100 of your posts and two PrCs I think it´s the first - but hey I love surprises. ;)

The spellfire of 3/3.5e is weaker then what it was because it was toned down and balanced for PC's to use. Take a look through Volo's Guide to All Things Magical, which is one of the free downloads, from 2e to see the differences. Heroes Lorebook also had a version
Banpai
09-29-05, 03:27 PM The spellfire of 3/3.5e is weaker then what it was because it was toned down and balanced for PC's to use. Take a look through Volo's Guide to All Things Magical, which is one of the free downloads, from 2e to see the differences. Heroes Lorebook also had a version
Ok I did read the (long) rule regarding spellfire from the book you suggest and I have to admid (even if my knowlege of AD&D is far from perfect) that it is way stonger and especially the ability at level 3 that allows you to controll the absorption of magic(without it the character simply would not be playable ) makes it far better than the current incarnation.
That said I would say that the spellfire feat in MoF is totally overpowered and I think that spellfire makes much more sense as a template.
Has someone on these boards already tryed to bring the old spellfire back, balance it but don´t take everything from it(maybe in the form of a base class not unlike the strange warlock?
shadevarr
10-12-05, 06:05 PM Currently I have a player who is playing a drow spellfire wielder going through the prestige classes for spellfire. I'll see how close it is to the 2nd ed one (which I allowed for both PCs and NPCs) before thinking about rebuilding it. Just think of a silver dragon with spellfire and be afraid....if your evil that is.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
muscat36 09-20-05, 10:45 AM	See i have been playing this game for about 11 years and i'm now 20. in all my time playing i have never made up rule to keep something i've made alive. But when Alminter was made every time he was killed some one (MR Green) would reles something new eg(spellfire). Why is this. how can one man's chartor live on like this. i know that other heros from forgoten relems can be kill why now him?? it has been a quest of my group to kill him and mark my word it will happen.There is no (spellfire) in 3rd ed. is there see you in hell Alminster (sorry thats right he come out of there with his head in his hands) Thanks. For nothing
CzarGarrett 09-20-05, 01:16 PM	Elminster you mean? Well, he's supposed to be that old guy who knows just about everything, but tells just about nothing. Please note- make your message comprehensible next time.
The White Sorcerer 09-20-05, 04:02 PM	There is no (spellfire) in 3rd ed. is there Actually, there is! Hooray!
warlockco 09-21-05, 05:30 AM	Actually, there is! Hooray! Yeah and it has been castrated.
Slime Lord 09-21-05, 08:32 AM	Yeah and it has been castrated. Randomness: Storm recently cast spellfire in one her appearnces in a recent book. Farthest Reach to be. 1 Bolt of Spellfire = Oh I won't tell. ;)
prototype00 09-21-05, 08:48 AM	For some misguided reason the first thing I thought when I saw Alminster was Aleminster. Weird I know, maybe its the Realms version of Sam Adam's? "Slake your throat with Aleminster's finest. Brewed from a secret Athlantan recipe handed down for 5 royal generations, Aleminster; its Toril's choice." prototype00
ClobberinTime 09-21-05, 10:12 AM	Storm was using silver fire. Alminster is dead, he was elminsters little brother.
Kuje31 09-21-05, 12:40 PM	Ya know. I always got a kick out of Elfminster that is in the Zakhara material. He's from Shadowdale as well and he hates Elminster. :)
GothicDan 09-21-05, 03:46 PM	I'm sorry, but I can't really comprehend the original poster. I get that he's another person who is angry with Elminster being more powerful than PCs, and who is subsequently using out-of-character reasoning to prompt in-character actions. And to all of this, I say: When the iconic characters of a world die, the world dies, too. For instance, when the Heroes of the Lance died in Dragonlance, the setting just lost all of its vibrancy and appeal. There was no familiarity with it. That being said, Elminster's hardly the most powerful wizard around, the oldest, or the one to escape death the most often. Some choice examples, all evil and more powerful spellcasters than Elminster, are Larloch, Lord Telamont Tanthul, and Shoon. Well, the last may not be older, but he's certainly more powerful. No need to complain about something when it's already shown that there is no actual contention. Elminster is no more invincible than any other very smart, experienced archmage - though Mystra protecting him (as she does all of her Chosen) does add something to him. And remember that all other Neutral or Good deities would most likely directly defend their Chosen/Proxies/Seraphs/what have you, so there's no reason to single out Mystra. Also, note that I do not think that Greenwood even played Elminster as a PC; I believe he was an NPC from the start. The fact that he's been portrayed so much in novels in a more PC-way is because the company ordered Greenwood to do it, because people bought more stuff at the time when it involved Elminster. And I'm not sure what you mean by something 'new' like spellfire.. Considering that spellfire was in the setting since it was very, very first printed by TSR.
The Simbul 09-21-05, 04:40 PM	Storm was using silver fire.Or rather, Storm was using the novel version of Silver Fire....as in the kind that can instantly slay evil mages, dragons, and phaerimm with a touch, that can sunder the universe when it collides with the Shadow Weave, that can heal any Chosen who invokes it, that can be called upon several dozen times in a single battle, be hurled in all manner of shapes and sizes beyond just a 5ftx5ft beam or 70ft cone, that can emulate true Spellfire, that can restore mythals to their full power, and ricochet of each of the Seven Sisters to mass-blast evil beings into dust.... Which needless to say is a far cry from the outdated, lackluster, and sloppily converted description it is given on p56 of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting.....
Gellion 09-21-05, 06:40 PM	For instance, when the Heroes of the Lance died in Dragonlance, the setting just lost all of its vibrancy and appeal. There was no familiarity with it. I think I am the only one who did not mind the companions dying. I mean ya gotta go sometime. That way there can be new heroes in Krynn. :)
GothicDan 09-21-05, 10:36 PM	I didn't mind the companions dying, actually. I think it was a good end to a good story. When the main characters of a story die, the story is over. And yes, I typically play and view D&D more in a story/novel form than most modern RPers. 3E seems to design their worlds as more of a video game - in that if you took out X NPC it would not terribly impact the storyline so much that it could not continue in their absence. However, this makes the NPCs less important and gives the setting less of a defined feel to it. If too many of the FR iconic characters were to die, I think that FR's story would also be at its end.
Gallameed 09-21-05, 11:07 PM	I think I am the only one who did not mind the companions dying. I mean ya gotta go sometime. That way there can be new heroes in Krynn. :) When Tanis died I was GUTTED! I actually cried, not sobbing and wailing, but tears ran down my face as I read on. Great series, later destroyed... It was the whole Fifth age thing that f'ed it all up for me, some nice ideas but no soul.
Gallameed 09-21-05, 11:21 PM	I didn't mind the companions dying, actually. I think it was a good end to a good story. When the main characters of a story die, the story is over. And yes, I typically play and view D&D more in a story/novel form than most modern RPers. 3E seems to design their worlds as more of a video game - in that if you took out X NPC it would not terribly impact the storyline so much that it could not continue in their absence. However, this makes the NPCs less important and gives the setting less of a defined feel to it. If too many of the FR iconic characters were to die, I think that FR's story would also be at its end. I try to keep my "main campaign" real and have that romantic, high-fantasy feel about it. I've had players "meet the parents", marry, (say their vows) have children, lose children, change their views and alignments (after facing the consequences of their actions) and they even once founded a town. I've had a Necromancer who worshipped Lathander as best he could and a young priest of Ilmater give his life so a Tiefling baby could live. Over the years my players have lost friends and loved one's, be they npc or pc. I use music in my games and a few times I've had them come to tears and my voice has broke as I'm describing the scene. It's in those moments that role-playing pays off and you really are in another world and no video game can ever match that! Yet. :D
Slime Lord 09-22-05, 08:13 AM	Or rather, Storm was using the novel version of Silver Fire....as in the kind that can instantly slay evil mages, dragons, and phaerimm with a touch, that can sunder the universe when it collides with the Shadow Weave, that can heal any Chosen who invokes it, that can be called upon several dozen times in a single battle, be hurled in all manner of shapes and sizes beyond just a 5ftx5ft beam or 70ft cone, that can emulate true Spellfire, that can restore mythals to their full power, and ricochet of each of the Seven Sisters to mass-blast evil beings into dust.... Which needless to say is a far cry from the outdated, lackluster, and sloppily converted description it is given on p56 of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting..... My apologizes Lady Simbul ;). I would have known the difference have I owned such Sourcebooks which would enlightenme. But, I fail too at the current time. Only Simbul knows ;)
ClobberinTime 09-22-05, 06:45 PM	I'm still just happy they got rid of Alminster, I never did like that half-gnome thamaturgist.
Banpai 09-28-05, 08:08 AM	Or rather, Storm was using the novel version of Silver Fire....as in the kind that can instantly slay evil mages, dragons, and phaerimm with a touch, that can sunder the universe when it collides with the Shadow Weave, that can heal any Chosen who invokes it, that can be called upon several dozen times in a single battle, be hurled in all manner of shapes and sizes beyond just a 5ftx5ft beam or 70ft cone, that can emulate true Spellfire, that can restore mythals to their full power, and ricochet of each of the Seven Sisters to mass-blast evil beings into dust.... Which needless to say is a far cry from the outdated, lackluster, and sloppily converted description it is given on p56 of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting..... Please explain wheter you think that Spellfire is represented far to weak in the FRCS or that the Spellfire in the Novel(s) is far to powerfull and versatile. After reading over 100 of your posts and two PrCs I think it´s the first - but hey I love surprises. ;)
Kuje31 09-28-05, 12:01 PM	Please explain wheter you think that Spellfire is represented far to weak in the FRCS or that the Spellfire in the Novel(s) is far to powerfull and versatile. After reading over 100 of your posts and two PrCs I think it´s the first - but hey I love surprises. ;) The spellfire of 3/3.5e is weaker then what it was because it was toned down and balanced for PC's to use. Take a look through Volo's Guide to All Things Magical, which is one of the free downloads, from 2e to see the differences. Heroes Lorebook also had a version
Banpai 09-29-05, 03:27 PM	The spellfire of 3/3.5e is weaker then what it was because it was toned down and balanced for PC's to use. Take a look through Volo's Guide to All Things Magical, which is one of the free downloads, from 2e to see the differences. Heroes Lorebook also had a version Ok I did read the (long) rule regarding spellfire from the book you suggest and I have to admid (even if my knowlege of AD&D is far from perfect) that it is way stonger and especially the ability at level 3 that allows you to controll the absorption of magic(without it the character simply would not be playable ) makes it far better than the current incarnation. That said I would say that the spellfire feat in MoF is totally overpowered and I think that spellfire makes much more sense as a template. Has someone on these boards already tryed to bring the old spellfire back, balance it but don´t take everything from it(maybe in the form of a base class not unlike the strange warlock?
shadevarr 10-12-05, 06:05 PM	Currently I have a player who is playing a drow spellfire wielder going through the prestige classes for spellfire. I'll see how close it is to the 2nd ed one (which I allowed for both PCs and NPCs) before thinking about rebuilding it. Just think of a silver dragon with spellfire and be afraid....if your evil that is.