An alternative to regional feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

An alternative to regional feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
nbnmare
04-12-06, 03:53 PM One problem I noticed is that a lot of regional feats either make no sense to be restricted to first level, have no real reason to be restricted to people from certain regions, or both. This is particularly noticable when trying to convert the various 3.0 region-restricted feats to 3.5 regional feats, but it even applies to several feats from Player's Guide to Faerūn itself!

For example, why can't someone learn to "throw heavy weapons to deadly affect" (Axethrower feat) later in life, and for that matter, why can't anyone of sufficient strength learn to do this? Why can't someone who grew up in f.ex Tethyr but moved to Waterdeep or Athkatla and has lived there for the past 30+ years have become "intimately familiar with the deceit, guile, and double-speak of city folk" (Cosmopolitan feat)?

To try to solve this problem, I've come up with several alternative types of feats:

Ancestral feats

These represent some trait or ability that has been inherited from an unusual or unique ancestor. They must be taken at 1st level, and characters may only have one.

Examples: Aftersight (RoF), Azerblood (RoF), Bloodline of Fire (PGtF)

Blessing feats

These represent abilities and bonuses granted to a character by a deity (note that these shouldn't be confused with Initiate feats, as you do not have to be a member of the clergy or even a divine spellcaster to qualify for Blessing feats). They can be taken at any level, but characters may only have one. The character must also have normally performed some great service to the deity and/or his clergy in order to qualify.

Examples: Ancestral Spirit (RoF), Godsight (LEoF), Lolth's Blessing (RoF)

Cultural feats

These represent dominant traits, beliefs and aspects of the society in which a character either grew up, in or has lived in for at least 5 years. A character may take most (though there are a few exceptions) cultural feats at any level, providing she still has regular exposure to her culture. They can be taken at any level, and characters may take as many as they qualify for.

Examples: Bullheaded (PGtF), Militia (PGtF), Smooth Talk (PGtF)

Environmental feats

These represent ways in which a character has adapted to or learned to utilize the environment in which he either grew up in, or has spent most if not all of his time in over at least the last 5 years. They can be taken at any level, but characters may only have one.

Examples: Arctic Adaption (RoF), Nomadic trekker (SS), Sea Legs (PGtF)

Racial feats

These represent new or improved abilities or talents that are only available to certain races and sub-races. They can be taken at any level, and characters may take as many as they qualify for.

Example: Duergar Mindshaper (RoF), Highborn Drow (RoF), Svirfneblin Figment Master (RoF)

Upbringing feats

These represent something your character had extensive training in or experience with during childhood or young adulthood. They must be taken at 1st level, and characters may only have one.

Examples: Arcane Schooling (PGtF), Street Smart (PGtF), Vremyonni Training (UaE)

Anyway, I was just wondering what other people's take on this issue is, and what their opinion is of my attempted solution. Does my method make things far too complex, does it allow a character to be better customized to his race and region, is there potential for abuse, etc.

Another thing I'm considering is having a series of flaws for each category too. Possible examples: Haemophiliac [Ancestry], Curse of Beshaba [Curse], Xenophobic [Culture], Weakness to Fire [Environment], Severe Light Blindness [Racial], Lack of Schooling [Upbringing]

BTW I'm aware that, as they currently stand, many of the existing regional feats are too powerful for a character to be allowed more than one. Which is why I plan to rebalance them, too :).
Yaeri
04-12-06, 05:06 PM I think the feats as they stand in the forgotten realms campaign setting book were on par with regular feats. The reason reagional feats were added to the setting was as a special bonus for characters coming from a "logical" region. For example, a dwarf coming from a dwarven kingdom instead of from baldur's gate. At least, that's my impression. To be a bonus, these feats had to be slightly more powerful than regular feats. In 3.5 it was clear many of them weren't or were no longer better than regular feats (especially the +2/+2 feats from the PHB) so they made them more powerful in Player's guide to Faerun. Because of their higher power, you indeed are allowed only one of them.
The game can easily do without those feats. They were just added as a possible bonus. If you want them to no longer be a bonus, and tune them down, I think you can just as well leave them out. What you'll have otherwise are feats with very specific prerequisites (region, race,...) yet extremely mediocre advantage. For example +2 on a skill and +1 to a save is no more powerfull than one of the regular +2/+2 feats or +2 save feats. Yet while you can just take iron will as a feat, you'll have to adhere to some very specific prerequisites to obtain this very specific +2/+1save feat.

So I personally would just drop it. But if you really want to do it this way, you could, -to maintain the bonus-part- use the 3.5 statistics for the first such feat a pc takes (powerful) and the 3.0 statistics for all the others he/she ever takes (mediocre).
The in-game explanation for this could be, that the character has spent the whole way to adulthood getting this first feat, so he/she would be very good at it. But it would have spent only a relatively small amount of adventuring time to learn the feats after that one.
Krash
04-12-06, 09:24 PM I think it's called diversity. So not every PC looks like they've been created with a cookie-cutter. I think your proposed system is interesting though.

-- George Krashos
Thelandrach
04-12-06, 11:14 PM I always felt there were two main reasons for the regional feats: to make players pick a specific homeland for their character so it isn't just another fighter, rogue, cleric or wizard, and to make players start thinking ahead about their character--if you take the Bloodline of Fire, you know what spells and feats you're going to be taking later on; if you take Heavy Weapon Thrower, same deal. No, there isn't any particular reason why you wouldn't be able to learn to throw heavy weapons later in life; it's a starting bonus they give to players who are willing to think and plan ahead, and have some sort of roleplaying hook for their character from the first gaming session.
nbnmare
04-13-06, 06:41 AM I think it's called diversity. So not every PC looks like they've been created with a cookie-cutter.

Exactly. My basic goals are to create a system which allows for regional diversity beyond a single feat at first level, while also having the crunch make more sense from a fluff perspective.

Even if the alternate feat categories end up not working out properly, I definitely think introducing regional flaws to allow more than one regional feat holds a great deal of promise :).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nbnmare 04-12-06, 03:53 PM	One problem I noticed is that a lot of regional feats either make no sense to be restricted to first level, have no real reason to be restricted to people from certain regions, or both. This is particularly noticable when trying to convert the various 3.0 region-restricted feats to 3.5 regional feats, but it even applies to several feats from Player's Guide to Faerūn itself! For example, why can't someone learn to "throw heavy weapons to deadly affect" (Axethrower feat) later in life, and for that matter, why can't anyone of sufficient strength learn to do this? Why can't someone who grew up in f.ex Tethyr but moved to Waterdeep or Athkatla and has lived there for the past 30+ years have become "intimately familiar with the deceit, guile, and double-speak of city folk" (Cosmopolitan feat)? To try to solve this problem, I've come up with several alternative types of feats: Ancestral feats These represent some trait or ability that has been inherited from an unusual or unique ancestor. They must be taken at 1st level, and characters may only have one. Examples: Aftersight (RoF), Azerblood (RoF), Bloodline of Fire (PGtF) Blessing feats These represent abilities and bonuses granted to a character by a deity (note that these shouldn't be confused with Initiate feats, as you do not have to be a member of the clergy or even a divine spellcaster to qualify for Blessing feats). They can be taken at any level, but characters may only have one. The character must also have normally performed some great service to the deity and/or his clergy in order to qualify. Examples: Ancestral Spirit (RoF), Godsight (LEoF), Lolth's Blessing (RoF) Cultural feats These represent dominant traits, beliefs and aspects of the society in which a character either grew up, in or has lived in for at least 5 years. A character may take most (though there are a few exceptions) cultural feats at any level, providing she still has regular exposure to her culture. They can be taken at any level, and characters may take as many as they qualify for. Examples: Bullheaded (PGtF), Militia (PGtF), Smooth Talk (PGtF) Environmental feats These represent ways in which a character has adapted to or learned to utilize the environment in which he either grew up in, or has spent most if not all of his time in over at least the last 5 years. They can be taken at any level, but characters may only have one. Examples: Arctic Adaption (RoF), Nomadic trekker (SS), Sea Legs (PGtF) Racial feats These represent new or improved abilities or talents that are only available to certain races and sub-races. They can be taken at any level, and characters may take as many as they qualify for. Example: Duergar Mindshaper (RoF), Highborn Drow (RoF), Svirfneblin Figment Master (RoF) Upbringing feats These represent something your character had extensive training in or experience with during childhood or young adulthood. They must be taken at 1st level, and characters may only have one. Examples: Arcane Schooling (PGtF), Street Smart (PGtF), Vremyonni Training (UaE) Anyway, I was just wondering what other people's take on this issue is, and what their opinion is of my attempted solution. Does my method make things far too complex, does it allow a character to be better customized to his race and region, is there potential for abuse, etc. Another thing I'm considering is having a series of flaws for each category too. Possible examples: Haemophiliac [Ancestry], Curse of Beshaba [Curse], Xenophobic [Culture], Weakness to Fire [Environment], Severe Light Blindness [Racial], Lack of Schooling [Upbringing] BTW I'm aware that, as they currently stand, many of the existing regional feats are too powerful for a character to be allowed more than one. Which is why I plan to rebalance them, too :).
Yaeri 04-12-06, 05:06 PM	I think the feats as they stand in the forgotten realms campaign setting book were on par with regular feats. The reason reagional feats were added to the setting was as a special bonus for characters coming from a "logical" region. For example, a dwarf coming from a dwarven kingdom instead of from baldur's gate. At least, that's my impression. To be a bonus, these feats had to be slightly more powerful than regular feats. In 3.5 it was clear many of them weren't or were no longer better than regular feats (especially the +2/+2 feats from the PHB) so they made them more powerful in Player's guide to Faerun. Because of their higher power, you indeed are allowed only one of them. The game can easily do without those feats. They were just added as a possible bonus. If you want them to no longer be a bonus, and tune them down, I think you can just as well leave them out. What you'll have otherwise are feats with very specific prerequisites (region, race,...) yet extremely mediocre advantage. For example +2 on a skill and +1 to a save is no more powerfull than one of the regular +2/+2 feats or +2 save feats. Yet while you can just take iron will as a feat, you'll have to adhere to some very specific prerequisites to obtain this very specific +2/+1save feat. So I personally would just drop it. But if you really want to do it this way, you could, -to maintain the bonus-part- use the 3.5 statistics for the first such feat a pc takes (powerful) and the 3.0 statistics for all the others he/she ever takes (mediocre). The in-game explanation for this could be, that the character has spent the whole way to adulthood getting this first feat, so he/she would be very good at it. But it would have spent only a relatively small amount of adventuring time to learn the feats after that one.
Krash 04-12-06, 09:24 PM	I think it's called diversity. So not every PC looks like they've been created with a cookie-cutter. I think your proposed system is interesting though. -- George Krashos
Thelandrach 04-12-06, 11:14 PM	I always felt there were two main reasons for the regional feats: to make players pick a specific homeland for their character so it isn't just another fighter, rogue, cleric or wizard, and to make players start thinking ahead about their character--if you take the Bloodline of Fire, you know what spells and feats you're going to be taking later on; if you take Heavy Weapon Thrower, same deal. No, there isn't any particular reason why you wouldn't be able to learn to throw heavy weapons later in life; it's a starting bonus they give to players who are willing to think and plan ahead, and have some sort of roleplaying hook for their character from the first gaming session.
nbnmare 04-13-06, 06:41 AM	I think it's called diversity. So not every PC looks like they've been created with a cookie-cutter. Exactly. My basic goals are to create a system which allows for regional diversity beyond a single feat at first level, while also having the crunch make more sense from a fluff perspective. Even if the alternate feat categories end up not working out properly, I definitely think introducing regional flaws to allow more than one regional feat holds a great deal of promise :).