An opinion shared... [Archive] - Wizards Community

An opinion shared... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bone Lord
09-19-05, 04:41 AM I recently read the following on another Rpg board. While I'm not someone who shares this opinion of the setting, it made me think about the statements made. In lurking, I have noticed a number of people that appear to share this persons opinion. I have also noticed that these people and this opinion seem to be appearing more often than times prior.

I will agree that a majority of the pre-generated characters of note and most that influence the setting, are arcane casters of various epic levels(or near epic). 90% of the REAL movers and shakers that seriously effect the setting are spell-casters. You'll find that this has passed to many of the settings fans(see the woTc - FR boards), in that when it comes time to discuss a truly powerful character(be it an existing character, or one some-one wishes to create)...95% of the time those mentioned are wizards & sorcerers. It has really created the mindset that if you wish to be a true power within The Forgotten Realms setting, you need to be of the finger twiddling sort. I retract my prior statement, I do have one other issue with the setting(at least the way it is packaged). That would be the over abundance of epic or near epic level NPCs within the setting. Your almost apt to bump into an Archmage on every street corner. I think the setting has been OVER developed in the area of NPC personalities. Far too much print and time has gone into telling you of the various power house personalities of the Realms(and what they have done). Be it information on the extreme powers and abilities that they possess directly, or the vast level of influence and power they hold through various resources. IMO more of that time and text should be focused on making potential players feel as if its a world they can and will influence. Rather than robbing many of such feelings by placing the worlds major events and happenings within the grasp of a vast number of overly detailed NPC power-houses who regularly decide the out-come of the lands future. In short, it really makes the Forgotten Realms seem more theirs(the epic level NPCs)...and less yours(as in the players characters). While I understand that the setting can be modified, its just ALOT of unnecessary 'weeding' in one area of the setting(NPCs). The funny thing is that when this issue was presented to the settings creator(Ed Greenwood)within forum, his answer was something similar to this:

I dont recommend the use of many or most of the Realms epic level personalities within most games. Most of these characters were never meant to fit within the average game(not meaning average level game...but just the average game in general).

I found it a poor response given how much time, text and resources have been poured into detailing these characters. Be it through various novels or many supplements. Doesn't that add up to a lot of wasted time on either the creative teams part..or that of the reader of Realms material(especially when applied to game material. Detailing backgrounds, abilities, allies, influence and stats.)

What are your feelings on these statements? And why? I myself will not label them wrong. As we are each entitled to our own opinion(s). It just happens to be a position that I don't share, but better understand now.
Phaerven
09-19-05, 11:25 AM Considering the powers epic spellcasters command, it's only consistent that they are the ones holding power.

As a player, I was recently in a situation where the total neglection of local NPC by the DM made it quite difficult for me to play my character. This is why I would be interested in what Ed Greenwood truly answered and to what question. A "something similar like this" quotation is hardly worth discussing.
Faraer
09-19-05, 02:05 PM Your almost apt to bump into an Archmage on every street corner.Canard, not remotely close to being true. Just read the map scale.Far too much print and time has gone into telling you of the various power house personalities of the Realms(and what they have done).True, but this isn't a criticism of the Realms but of how the Realms has been published, in response to public demand. Therefore I found it a poor response given how much time, text and resources have been poured into detailing these characters.this is invalid, since Ed isn't responsible for how the Realms is published.IMO more of that time and text should be focused on making potential players feel as if its a world they can and will influence.The vast majority of published Realmslore serves just this purpose, and the fact that novels exist and feature (mostly mid-level) NPCs and not your PCs is neither surprising nor anything to do with the Realms per se.
Bloodtide_the_Red
09-19-05, 03:11 PM I've seen this opinion so many times. It's like saying 'because there are other powerful NPC's in the world, my character is nothing'. It's so self centered, just because your not the hero of the world, it's wrong for anyone else to be that. It's the Ebberon idea-'the world has been around for a while, but eveyone in the world is a whimpy low level and are just wating around for some adventurer characters to save the day'.

Some how folks get the idea that the Epic spellcaster spend every second of thier life in combat. So every time something goes wrong they pop in and blast everything right. So all the other characters can just sit at home, the world will be saved without thier help. Even a glance at Realms history will show that the Epic folks are not everywhere and doing everything.

The Realms is ment to be more pandemic, a place of thousands and thousands of stories. Not just the stories of one group of adventurers. It's much more like a living breathing 'real world' where things happen all the time. And people just don't sit around and say 'gosh, sure hope thoes characters come help us soon'.

Typicaly I see theas coments come from players who want to be super stars. They don't want to be just Henk the fighter, they want to be Henk 'I can kill anything that moves'. They think every NPC should be 1 hp fodder for them too kill. Even the 500 year old elven guards of the elven king should go down after one hit.

In all the years i've played in the Realms, I've rarely even used the Epic folks, let alone most of the rest of the famous NPCs. And not becasue they are 'too powerful' or 'ruin' things, they just don't come up. The characters are down in Chult looking for a magic ring, they don't find an archmage in every tree(though they did find human-eating goblins). Sure they have bumped into them from time to time, but they lead seperate lives. No player of mine has ever flet they should just 'sit home and let them handle it'.

I would say that the people that complain about the NPC's are the same people that don't do anything unles they are in charge. They have to be the captain in a sport, the banker in Monoply, be the leader of a group, ect. For them it's 'no fun' to be equal or even lesser to someone else.

BT
Bone Lord
09-20-05, 02:29 AM Typicaly I see theas coments come from players who want to be super stars. They don't want to be just Henk the fighter

While I have shared my failure to agree with the opinion that is the topic of this thread, I dont agree with this stance either. I see nothing wrong with players wanting to be "super stars", or something other than just the typical fighter(in using the already mentioned class example). I have found within my time as a gamer(both DM & Player), that rarely does one wish to be the bland old anything. My opinion is that they should'nt expect to be just anything, as the story is crafted and revolves around the them...not the supporting cast. Almost never within a fictional story(novel, movie, ect.)do you find the lead character or characters represented as common ordinary old anything. They are special and exceptional in one fashion, or perhaps many. Its part of what grabs your attention as a viewer, reader or audience member. As a DM my players are special, as with out them..the story would cease to exist. Just a thought.
warlockco
09-20-05, 04:12 AM Players can be "super-stars" in a campaign, but it is the job the DM (and Character Deeds) to give that acknowledgement.

In a game that some friends had played in.
Bread became a controlled substance, Bakeries were forced to stop making bread.

Why?
Because one of the players, a Half-Orc Barbarian, would do anything, he was told to do for a loaf of bread. Which lead to quite alot of property destruction.
Inspired_Mage
09-20-05, 07:25 AM Hi All,

For my 2 cents I would say what is wrong with there being other powerful characters in the Realms, your DM does not have to use them in his story and you can make yourself just as, or more powerful than the famous NPC's already in existence.

I personally find the NPC's interesting and enjoy reading about them, their deeds and their backgrounds because I enjoy storytelling and backgrounds, and just because I like them and their stories does not mean I would ever use them myself in a campaign.

As for magic users being the most powerful beings on Faerun, it makes sense, they wield unbelievable power that takes huge amounts of study and ability to achieve.

And then again even fighters rely on magic to become as powerful as they are, I mean who makes all those magic swords and armour that they wear?
Krash
09-20-05, 08:04 AM You often wonder just what type of campaigns people run in the Realms to confront the perceived problems and alleged shortcomings of the setting that the initial post pointed to. Even if the 'archmage on every corner' statement was true (which it isn't as Faraer noted), why would they have any interest whatsoever in the affairs and doings of the PCs unless it was through choices made by the DM? Also, it often appears that far too many players in the Realms metagame their PCs. What I mean by that is they use their knowledge of the setting to color the actions and decisions made by their PCs. If your PC is from Baldur's gate he shouldn't have a clue who Elminster and Storm Silverhand are, but drop him through a portal to Shadowdale, and the first thing he or she is likely to do is knock on Elminster's front door.

Quite simply, the Realms was envisioned and created as a living, breathing world where things happen - whether by PC actions or not. If you hear the rumor about strange happenings at the old, abandoned mine and don't bother to explore there for a couple of months of in-game time, then you might just find that the Company of the Crawling Crag Cat has done your work for you. If you're adventuring in Waterdeep, you may hear tales about the battles going on in the Dalelands between the drow of House Jaelre and the forces of Archendale. Do nothing about it, and the battle might be over by the time you get there. Time flows, world events occur and your PCs can be spectators or a part of what happens. The NPCs do stuff in the published Realms simply because stuff has to happen to stay true to the style of the Realms as it was first published (and continues to be published). Nothing stops a DM from inserting the PCs into the campaign to bring about the destruction of Hellgate Keep, or to fight off the sahuagin assailing Myth Nantar, or fight Sarya Dlardrageth and the fey'ri: well, nothing expect a poor DM imagination and the fear of doing some old-time DM design work and adventure creation.

And personally, I do like a dose of reality in my concept of gaming. I like the idea that my PC isn't the most powerful thing going, that something out there is bigger, or tougher, or nastier and can actually make him dead - fast. That to me promotes a challenge and a mindset that I can't just walk into the village tavern and kill everyone for the heck of it. Basically I want to revolve around what the world throws at me, rather than have the world revolve around me - I know that some gamers prefer the latter, and more power to them, but it's not my preferred gaming style.

Oh, and as to why TSR and then WotC have concentrated on all these powerful NPCs? Well, quite simply, it's because that is what the fans want. For every person who asks that "more of that time and text should be focused on making potential players feel as if its a world they can and will influence" there are a score who just want the stats for Drizzt. And if you think that your PCs can't influence the Realms, think on this as a campaign to play (and it's one that Ed himself has advocated on a few occasions): build yourself a keep on the trade roads in the Heartlands. Invite traders and farmers to settle there under your (PC) protection. Build your wealth, influence and power. Build a realm. And do that while the Zhents, the various merchant guilds, neighbouring cities and towns, various individuals wanting to usurp what your labor has built and a host of other entities try and thwart your efforts. Which good, epic-NPC of the Realms ala Elminster, Khelben and co is going to give a flying $#@% that you are doing this? Or more importantly, do it for you? None. The campaigns are there for any PCs to play in the Realms, they just haven't put much thought into them yet. When "Power of Faerun" comes out next year, many people's perceptions on PC play in the Realms will be altered forever. And about time too.

-- George Krashos
Fern Monger
09-20-05, 12:15 PM When I began DMing in the Realms two years ago, I was a bit overwhelmed by the plethora of very powerful NPCs, so I understand the feeling of "über-powerful npcs".

It's a feeling I got rid of, however. In my first adventure (with 1st level player characters) I killed Elminster, who I had introduced to my players as "the most powerful wizard of Faerûn". The guy who killed Elminster was something like a 1st level archer (yeah, I bend the rules of the game - so what ? : it's my prerogative as a DM).

It achieved 2 things : it sent the message that anyone no matter how powerful or "important" could die in my adventure. It meant also that "lowly" npcs or pcs could kill, and more importantly interact with, powerful npcs.

Since then my players have encountered Scyllua Darkhope, Allusair Obarskyr and various other powerful ncps ; they have hindered or helped them and have been pretty happy with the way the story went.
Of course the way my stories are constructed helped the pcs-npcs relationship : I run a somewhat politically oriented game grounded in power equilibrium between various factions of Faerûn. When my players met Scyllua Darkhope they were only 4th level, but they represented the entire Dales at the time.
Since they were the Dales' ambassadors, Scyllua was not able to wipe them off the face of the Earth... I mean the face of Faerûn ;) ... like she itched to do.

What I am trying to show here is that it's possible to run a game in Faerûn in which the players interact with the npcs, no matter how powerful the latter are. It's possible to have the pcs center stage of the setting if you design the events happening in the Realms around them.
With that in mind, I appreciate knowing who are the powerful and influential npcs of Faerûn, and I like to read about their whereabouts in the published products.

In my opinion a good setting (such as the vibrantly alive Forgotten Realms) is unbalanced only if the DM let it be so. If you're oppressed by the uber-npcs, kill some of them :evillaugh you will feel better afterwards !
Bloodtide_the_Red
09-20-05, 02:36 PM I did not say that PC's should not be superstars, just that they must share the stage. A lot of folks don't like that idea, they want to be the only one. It hangs heavy over many players heads, no matter what they will never be as cool(read:powerful) as the published NPCs.

I remember a couple of years back, I had an Orc horde attack the Vast. After a bit some PC's asked 'Where are the powerful folk?". Naturaly I answered 'you don't know, but you don't see them nearby'. They even wasted some time looking around, sure that they were somewhere helping out. Of course, they never found them, and when the next attack came they simply joined the fight.

I too wonder what kind of person feels they can't game in the world, simply because there are powerful NPCs. I'd guess it does come back to how the Dm uses the characters. I've seen plenty of DM's use powerful characters to control the PC's. So if they find a powerful item the DM does not want them to have, Elminster pops in and takes it. And along the same line they stop the PCs from doing 'anything'. So if they are set on razing the Dalelands, the DM just says 'the NPC's attack and you lose'.

BT
ElGrecoETAC
09-20-05, 08:18 PM DMs that would do stuff like that have issues that go beyond what sort of NPCs populating the realms. :rolleyes:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bone Lord 09-19-05, 04:41 AM	I recently read the following on another Rpg board. While I'm not someone who shares this opinion of the setting, it made me think about the statements made. In lurking, I have noticed a number of people that appear to share this persons opinion. I have also noticed that these people and this opinion seem to be appearing more often than times prior. I will agree that a majority of the pre-generated characters of note and most that influence the setting, are arcane casters of various epic levels(or near epic). 90% of the REAL movers and shakers that seriously effect the setting are spell-casters. You'll find that this has passed to many of the settings fans(see the woTc - FR boards), in that when it comes time to discuss a truly powerful character(be it an existing character, or one some-one wishes to create)...95% of the time those mentioned are wizards & sorcerers. It has really created the mindset that if you wish to be a true power within The Forgotten Realms setting, you need to be of the finger twiddling sort. I retract my prior statement, I do have one other issue with the setting(at least the way it is packaged). That would be the over abundance of epic or near epic level NPCs within the setting. Your almost apt to bump into an Archmage on every street corner. I think the setting has been OVER developed in the area of NPC personalities. Far too much print and time has gone into telling you of the various power house personalities of the Realms(and what they have done). Be it information on the extreme powers and abilities that they possess directly, or the vast level of influence and power they hold through various resources. IMO more of that time and text should be focused on making potential players feel as if its a world they can and will influence. Rather than robbing many of such feelings by placing the worlds major events and happenings within the grasp of a vast number of overly detailed NPC power-houses who regularly decide the out-come of the lands future. In short, it really makes the Forgotten Realms seem more theirs(the epic level NPCs)...and less yours(as in the players characters). While I understand that the setting can be modified, its just ALOT of unnecessary 'weeding' in one area of the setting(NPCs). The funny thing is that when this issue was presented to the settings creator(Ed Greenwood)within forum, his answer was something similar to this: I dont recommend the use of many or most of the Realms epic level personalities within most games. Most of these characters were never meant to fit within the average game(not meaning average level game...but just the average game in general). I found it a poor response given how much time, text and resources have been poured into detailing these characters. Be it through various novels or many supplements. Doesn't that add up to a lot of wasted time on either the creative teams part..or that of the reader of Realms material(especially when applied to game material. Detailing backgrounds, abilities, allies, influence and stats.) What are your feelings on these statements? And why? I myself will not label them wrong. As we are each entitled to our own opinion(s). It just happens to be a position that I don't share, but better understand now.
Phaerven 09-19-05, 11:25 AM	Considering the powers epic spellcasters command, it's only consistent that they are the ones holding power. As a player, I was recently in a situation where the total neglection of local NPC by the DM made it quite difficult for me to play my character. This is why I would be interested in what Ed Greenwood truly answered and to what question. A "something similar like this" quotation is hardly worth discussing.
Faraer 09-19-05, 02:05 PM	Your almost apt to bump into an Archmage on every street corner.Canard, not remotely close to being true. Just read the map scale.Far too much print and time has gone into telling you of the various power house personalities of the Realms(and what they have done).True, but this isn't a criticism of the Realms but of how the Realms has been published, in response to public demand. Therefore I found it a poor response given how much time, text and resources have been poured into detailing these characters.this is invalid, since Ed isn't responsible for how the Realms is published.IMO more of that time and text should be focused on making potential players feel as if its a world they can and will influence.The vast majority of published Realmslore serves just this purpose, and the fact that novels exist and feature (mostly mid-level) NPCs and not your PCs is neither surprising nor anything to do with the Realms per se.
Bloodtide_the_Red 09-19-05, 03:11 PM	I've seen this opinion so many times. It's like saying 'because there are other powerful NPC's in the world, my character is nothing'. It's so self centered, just because your not the hero of the world, it's wrong for anyone else to be that. It's the Ebberon idea-'the world has been around for a while, but eveyone in the world is a whimpy low level and are just wating around for some adventurer characters to save the day'. Some how folks get the idea that the Epic spellcaster spend every second of thier life in combat. So every time something goes wrong they pop in and blast everything right. So all the other characters can just sit at home, the world will be saved without thier help. Even a glance at Realms history will show that the Epic folks are not everywhere and doing everything. The Realms is ment to be more pandemic, a place of thousands and thousands of stories. Not just the stories of one group of adventurers. It's much more like a living breathing 'real world' where things happen all the time. And people just don't sit around and say 'gosh, sure hope thoes characters come help us soon'. Typicaly I see theas coments come from players who want to be super stars. They don't want to be just Henk the fighter, they want to be Henk 'I can kill anything that moves'. They think every NPC should be 1 hp fodder for them too kill. Even the 500 year old elven guards of the elven king should go down after one hit. In all the years i've played in the Realms, I've rarely even used the Epic folks, let alone most of the rest of the famous NPCs. And not becasue they are 'too powerful' or 'ruin' things, they just don't come up. The characters are down in Chult looking for a magic ring, they don't find an archmage in every tree(though they did find human-eating goblins). Sure they have bumped into them from time to time, but they lead seperate lives. No player of mine has ever flet they should just 'sit home and let them handle it'. I would say that the people that complain about the NPC's are the same people that don't do anything unles they are in charge. They have to be the captain in a sport, the banker in Monoply, be the leader of a group, ect. For them it's 'no fun' to be equal or even lesser to someone else. BT
Bone Lord 09-20-05, 02:29 AM	Typicaly I see theas coments come from players who want to be super stars. They don't want to be just Henk the fighter While I have shared my failure to agree with the opinion that is the topic of this thread, I dont agree with this stance either. I see nothing wrong with players wanting to be "super stars", or something other than just the typical fighter(in using the already mentioned class example). I have found within my time as a gamer(both DM & Player), that rarely does one wish to be the bland old anything. My opinion is that they should'nt expect to be just anything, as the story is crafted and revolves around the them...not the supporting cast. Almost never within a fictional story(novel, movie, ect.)do you find the lead character or characters represented as common ordinary old anything. They are special and exceptional in one fashion, or perhaps many. Its part of what grabs your attention as a viewer, reader or audience member. As a DM my players are special, as with out them..the story would cease to exist. Just a thought.
warlockco 09-20-05, 04:12 AM	Players can be "super-stars" in a campaign, but it is the job the DM (and Character Deeds) to give that acknowledgement. In a game that some friends had played in. Bread became a controlled substance, Bakeries were forced to stop making bread. Why? Because one of the players, a Half-Orc Barbarian, would do anything, he was told to do for a loaf of bread. Which lead to quite alot of property destruction.
Inspired_Mage 09-20-05, 07:25 AM	Hi All, For my 2 cents I would say what is wrong with there being other powerful characters in the Realms, your DM does not have to use them in his story and you can make yourself just as, or more powerful than the famous NPC's already in existence. I personally find the NPC's interesting and enjoy reading about them, their deeds and their backgrounds because I enjoy storytelling and backgrounds, and just because I like them and their stories does not mean I would ever use them myself in a campaign. As for magic users being the most powerful beings on Faerun, it makes sense, they wield unbelievable power that takes huge amounts of study and ability to achieve. And then again even fighters rely on magic to become as powerful as they are, I mean who makes all those magic swords and armour that they wear?
Krash 09-20-05, 08:04 AM	You often wonder just what type of campaigns people run in the Realms to confront the perceived problems and alleged shortcomings of the setting that the initial post pointed to. Even if the 'archmage on every corner' statement was true (which it isn't as Faraer noted), why would they have any interest whatsoever in the affairs and doings of the PCs unless it was through choices made by the DM? Also, it often appears that far too many players in the Realms metagame their PCs. What I mean by that is they use their knowledge of the setting to color the actions and decisions made by their PCs. If your PC is from Baldur's gate he shouldn't have a clue who Elminster and Storm Silverhand are, but drop him through a portal to Shadowdale, and the first thing he or she is likely to do is knock on Elminster's front door. Quite simply, the Realms was envisioned and created as a living, breathing world where things happen - whether by PC actions or not. If you hear the rumor about strange happenings at the old, abandoned mine and don't bother to explore there for a couple of months of in-game time, then you might just find that the Company of the Crawling Crag Cat has done your work for you. If you're adventuring in Waterdeep, you may hear tales about the battles going on in the Dalelands between the drow of House Jaelre and the forces of Archendale. Do nothing about it, and the battle might be over by the time you get there. Time flows, world events occur and your PCs can be spectators or a part of what happens. The NPCs do stuff in the published Realms simply because stuff has to happen to stay true to the style of the Realms as it was first published (and continues to be published). Nothing stops a DM from inserting the PCs into the campaign to bring about the destruction of Hellgate Keep, or to fight off the sahuagin assailing Myth Nantar, or fight Sarya Dlardrageth and the fey'ri: well, nothing expect a poor DM imagination and the fear of doing some old-time DM design work and adventure creation. And personally, I do like a dose of reality in my concept of gaming. I like the idea that my PC isn't the most powerful thing going, that something out there is bigger, or tougher, or nastier and can actually make him dead - fast. That to me promotes a challenge and a mindset that I can't just walk into the village tavern and kill everyone for the heck of it. Basically I want to revolve around what the world throws at me, rather than have the world revolve around me - I know that some gamers prefer the latter, and more power to them, but it's not my preferred gaming style. Oh, and as to why TSR and then WotC have concentrated on all these powerful NPCs? Well, quite simply, it's because that is what the fans want. For every person who asks that "more of that time and text should be focused on making potential players feel as if its a world they can and will influence" there are a score who just want the stats for Drizzt. And if you think that your PCs can't influence the Realms, think on this as a campaign to play (and it's one that Ed himself has advocated on a few occasions): build yourself a keep on the trade roads in the Heartlands. Invite traders and farmers to settle there under your (PC) protection. Build your wealth, influence and power. Build a realm. And do that while the Zhents, the various merchant guilds, neighbouring cities and towns, various individuals wanting to usurp what your labor has built and a host of other entities try and thwart your efforts. Which good, epic-NPC of the Realms ala Elminster, Khelben and co is going to give a flying $#@% that you are doing this? Or more importantly, do it for you? None. The campaigns are there for any PCs to play in the Realms, they just haven't put much thought into them yet. When "Power of Faerun" comes out next year, many people's perceptions on PC play in the Realms will be altered forever. And about time too. -- George Krashos
Fern Monger 09-20-05, 12:15 PM	When I began DMing in the Realms two years ago, I was a bit overwhelmed by the plethora of very powerful NPCs, so I understand the feeling of "über-powerful npcs". It's a feeling I got rid of, however. In my first adventure (with 1st level player characters) I killed Elminster, who I had introduced to my players as "the most powerful wizard of Faerûn". The guy who killed Elminster was something like a 1st level archer (yeah, I bend the rules of the game - so what ? : it's my prerogative as a DM). It achieved 2 things : it sent the message that anyone no matter how powerful or "important" could die in my adventure. It meant also that "lowly" npcs or pcs could kill, and more importantly interact with, powerful npcs. Since then my players have encountered Scyllua Darkhope, Allusair Obarskyr and various other powerful ncps ; they have hindered or helped them and have been pretty happy with the way the story went. Of course the way my stories are constructed helped the pcs-npcs relationship : I run a somewhat politically oriented game grounded in power equilibrium between various factions of Faerûn. When my players met Scyllua Darkhope they were only 4th level, but they represented the entire Dales at the time. Since they were the Dales' ambassadors, Scyllua was not able to wipe them off the face of the Earth... I mean the face of Faerûn ;) ... like she itched to do. What I am trying to show here is that it's possible to run a game in Faerûn in which the players interact with the npcs, no matter how powerful the latter are. It's possible to have the pcs center stage of the setting if you design the events happening in the Realms around them. With that in mind, I appreciate knowing who are the powerful and influential npcs of Faerûn, and I like to read about their whereabouts in the published products. In my opinion a good setting (such as the vibrantly alive Forgotten Realms) is unbalanced only if the DM let it be so. If you're oppressed by the uber-npcs, kill some of them :evillaugh you will feel better afterwards !
Bloodtide_the_Red 09-20-05, 02:36 PM	I did not say that PC's should not be superstars, just that they must share the stage. A lot of folks don't like that idea, they want to be the only one. It hangs heavy over many players heads, no matter what they will never be as cool(read:powerful) as the published NPCs. I remember a couple of years back, I had an Orc horde attack the Vast. After a bit some PC's asked 'Where are the powerful folk?". Naturaly I answered 'you don't know, but you don't see them nearby'. They even wasted some time looking around, sure that they were somewhere helping out. Of course, they never found them, and when the next attack came they simply joined the fight. I too wonder what kind of person feels they can't game in the world, simply because there are powerful NPCs. I'd guess it does come back to how the Dm uses the characters. I've seen plenty of DM's use powerful characters to control the PC's. So if they find a powerful item the DM does not want them to have, Elminster pops in and takes it. And along the same line they stop the PCs from doing 'anything'. So if they are set on razing the Dalelands, the DM just says 'the NPC's attack and you lose'. BT
ElGrecoETAC 09-20-05, 08:18 PM	DMs that would do stuff like that have issues that go beyond what sort of NPCs populating the realms. :rolleyes: